Stopped looking= much happier

[carhill]

And, you, too. I trust you know what I mean. Hope your friends are doing well.

[Imajerk17]

And, you, too. I trust you know what I mean. Hope your friends are doing well.

 

Thank you. My friend says hi. It's gorgeous right now in Santa Barbara, such a nice break from the East Coast heat and humidity I am too used to. We're going to go to the beach later. Hope you enjoy your day as well. Rock on!

[Cupid's Puppet]

Only comment I'll offer OP is to guard against letting the current perspective go on too long, lest you get to the point where it, romance and/or sex, doesn't move you anymore. I saw a little of that last night and, well, that impelled the comment. Instead of being enamored of all the beautiful, and some single, ladies I interacted with, I was thinking meh can't wait to get out of this heat and back to the forest and cool.

 

So, while I do admire your insight and experience here, my advice would be everything in moderation, at least until you've had the relationship experiences you've desired in the past.

 

What's wrong with that? I guess I learned this from Buddhism, but I feel like no longer having the desire is a good thing. Desire is a form of suffering. So if you have found a way to get rid of the desire, are you not much more content in life? <<<not rhetorical question

[AceCutty]

This is the difference between you and the unhappy dateless men we tend to get on here.

YOU have identified a problem and are working on it and working on yourself too.

 

Too many here seem to identify the problem, ie they are not getting dates or they are not getting women interested in them, but their solution is that it is up to everyone else to accommodate them and if the world won't accommodate them, then they refuse to play the game or endlessly berate the world...

 

The problem with this theory is that not everyone can actually fix their problem.

 

My biggest problem in dating is my height. OLD doesn't work for me and I have to work extremely hard to overcome this issue when I'm dating IRL. Women typically act like they're doing me a favor by going on dates with me.

 

I've identified the problem. How would you recommend I fix it? I don't have any interest in leg lengthening surgery and I can't change how society views short men.

[Aniela]

The problem with this theory is that not everyone can actually fix their problem.

 

My biggest problem in dating is my height. OLD doesn't work for me and I have to work extremely hard to overcome this issue when I'm dating IRL. Women typically act like they're doing me a favor by going on dates with me.

 

I've identified the problem. How would you recommend I fix it? I don't have any interest in leg lengthening surgery and I can't change how society views short men.

 

I saw a short man with him arms wrapped around a tall woman, from behind, in Walmart last week. They both looked really happy.

 

I mentioned earlier in this thread, that I can relate to some of the men here, at times, so I'm asking as someone who has had my own issues. Bad luck, and huge issues when it comes to confidence/self-esteem/attractiveness.

What kind of women are making you feel like they're doing you a favour?

 

My dad isn't that tall, and he has admitted to complexes around his height before, but my mother loved him, and was attracted to him, and other women think he's great (and attractive). More than one woman hit on him in front of my mother, in the past.

[Aniela]

I remember posting elsewhere, about five years ago, that I had given up (and that I was fine - I was just tired of dealing with crappy men, dealing with the attitudes around women's ages from men my own age, men trying to cheat with me, causing trouble, and so on). I received quite a few comments from people who sounded sad for me, saying that I shouldn't give up. One young woman responded that what I'd written was inspiring.

 

I do get where the OP is coming from. I think its a good thing to step back and try to just get more out of life no matter what - to feel good, whether or not you have a partner. That's what I wanted, as well. I've just seen this heading an article: “Never have your happiness dependent on a yes or no decision from one person.” ― James Altucher - and that's the sort of advice I've seen given, time and again, to people here (male or female). It isn't always easy, but it's nice when you actually achieve it.

[xxoo]

My biggest problem in dating is my height. OLD doesn't work for me and I have to work extremely hard to overcome this issue when I'm dating IRL. Women typically act like they're doing me a favor by going on dates with me.

 

I'm 5'3", and in my life I've been very, very attracted to certain men my height and shorter. It was because we had chemistry, and they had qualities that I found very attractive about each of them individually (personality, nice body, bedroom eyes, etc). When you feel that unmistakable attraction to someone, you aren't evaluating details like height and weight.

 

Now, these weren't men on the street that I noticed, These were men that I had a class with, worked with, dads of kids on my kids' teams, etc. There was some social interaction that led us to "click" naturally.

 

So that would be my advice. Build your social life so that you are having lots of natural interactions with many people, and often meeting new people. Speak to women, men, and children with confidence and charm. Allow the sparks to ignite where they may, and enjoy.

[AceCutty]

I mentioned earlier in this thread, that I can relate to some of the men here, at times, so I'm asking as someone who has had my own issues. Bad luck, and huge issues when it comes to confidence/self-esteem/attractiveness.

What kind of women are making you feel like they're doing you a favour?

 

All women. I usually have to be very persistent.

 

My dad isn't that tall, and he has admitted to complexes around his height before, but my mother loved him, and was attracted to him, and other women think he's great (and attractive). More than one woman hit on him in front of my mother, in the past.

 

I don't have a complex around my height. I don't mind it at all. It hasn't affected me in the work world. I can fit easily into things. I'm likely to live longer and have far fewer health issues than my taller friends.

 

Society has a complex around my height (specifically in regards to women and relationships). I honestly don't think I would change it.

 

I'm 5'3", and in my life I've been very, very attracted to certain men my height and shorter. It was because we had chemistry, and they had qualities that I found very attractive about each of them individually (personality, nice body, bedroom eyes, etc). When you feel that unmistakable attraction to someone, you aren't evaluating details like height and weight.

 

Now, these weren't men on the street that I noticed, These were men that I had a class with, worked with, dads of kids on my kids' teams, etc. There was some social interaction that led us to "click" naturally.

 

So that would be my advice. Build your social life so that you are having lots of natural interactions with many people, and often meeting new people. Speak to women, men, and children with confidence and charm. Allow the sparks to ignite where they may, and enjoy.

 

So you're saying that you don't notice short men at first, but that you have to get to know them. I need to be charming and confident all the time and build up a massive social network to be successful.

 

I already know this and have done it before. But, as I said, it's A LOT of work, to the point that I liken it to a second job.

 

Because of how short men are viewed in society, I have to basically compensate for my height by being awesome, fun, confident, charming, successful, and good-looking. I pretty much need to be perfect in every other way.

 

That definitely goes under the category of too much work.

[xxoo]

 

So you're saying that you don't notice short men at first, but that you have to get to know them. I need to be charming and confident all the time and build up a massive social network to be successful.

 

I already know this and have done it before. But, as I said, it's A LOT of work, to the point that I liken it to a second job.

 

Because of how short men are viewed in society, I have to basically compensate for my height by being awesome, fun, confident, charming, successful, and good-looking. I pretty much need to be perfect in every other way.

 

That definitely goes under the category of too much work.

 

FWIW, I don't think I've ever dated someone that I noticed at first glance. So men I don't notice at first comprise my entire life of dating and relationships.

 

No need to be perfect. Just have some attractive qualities and share them confidently. It helps a lot to enjoy meeting and interacting with people.

[ZA Dater]

ZA dater is a quality person, and deserves a nice girl to love and cherish him, it frustrates me no end, that he is considering giving up.

Forgive me, but I do not see a 32 yo who has never really dated anyone, saying he is giving up looking for a woman of his own, as a positive thing.

 

That's in an incredibly nice compliment, thank you.

 

 

I don't get compliments all that often and that is a particularly nice one.

 

 

I think for me its a case of opening my eyes seeing things as they are rather than how I want them to be. Yes, undoubtedly without question a positive dating experience, be it being kissed, be it simply hugging someone you car about it, be it having dinner, be it taking an interest in someone else can add MASSIVELY to ones life. The hurt for me has always been I care, really I do and yes it perhaps doesn't come off here as it should.

 

 

People say and with a certain degree of truth one must go and simply be uncomfortable and do this and that but the truth for me is someone told me "oh flirt with her", the honest truth is I wouldn't know how to. At 32 that's a pretty fundamental problem, I have watched countless flirting videos and to be honest many are cringe worthy. My brain not seem to think in that way so I am forced to default to being who I am which is the caring well mannered nice guy. Unfortunately those characteristics are not unique in anyway at all not do they stand out as attractive qualities.

 

 

I have spent a long time trying to

: rebel against the dating system

: understand why I have no success

: really pursue the very few people who have made me feel anything.

 

 

Ultimately I don't seem to have the tools and mostly I don't seem to have the personality to make it work, its an uncomfortable reality. The fact its taken 32 year for me to find a sort of female friend is again telling of a lack of ability in the very basic interaction for ladies.

 

 

There is lots of good advice, really there is and I do read it all, I sometimes wish though it was as simple as it seemed. Guys seems to all fundamentally chase sex, I don't really, again because I am seriously ashamed I have no experience at all. With my wholesome mind set I tend to look as ladies as people rather than objects to have sex with.

 

 

As people we need to think the best of ourselves and I generally found dating and pursuing and ESPECIALLY trying to find someone interesting, all were extremely demoralising, especially the finding part and then I don't know how to pursue anyone so I do what I think is right and find out it isn't. Which is why I keep going on about experience, people can see with me I have none, I cant fake experience I don't have.

 

 

For me to succeed at dating I'd need someone to accept me as I am, accept I have no experience, accept all the drawbacks that entails but also accept I am hugely willing to compromise. Truthfully why would someone want me when they can have an experience, guy who knows what he is doing, has a decent relationship record. In that context I am hugely unappealing.

 

 

Probably the most important thing in life, irrespective is to think good things about oneself, its critical for many reasons and I just found when I was trying to date I never thought anything nice about myself because I was just confronted with failure after failure and I self examined and tried to understand "why". The truth of it is we never know why people choose what they do.

 

 

All I can do is derive some contentedness from the lovely compliments like the above.

[ZA Dater]

It willwork with someone random. You were a total stranger to everyone in your life until you met them. You developed close relationships with some through this process or something similar. You're right, you can't do it in one minute unless you're a pro. But you can get the ball rolling pretty well. If you meet someone anywhere, you can keep snowballing the conversation and see what happens. I was tempted to do it just a few hours ago with a girl who works at the store I was in, but I was in a rush.

 

Also, this isn't the only tactic. There are a few ways of making an impression on people, this is just the standard. Sometimes it's fun to set a tone right out of the gate so your presence has an impact, and will get peoples' curiosities about you piqued. You can just have some fun with it.

 

Once in a while when I get introduced to a girl I might take her hand, kiss it, affect a fake French accent, and say "ahh, Mon Cheri!" It's usually good for a laugh.

 

Another time I might say something like, "Oh, so you're the girl who (did very embarrassing thing)" and she'll act all confused and then you let her know that you're just playing around.

 

There are countless ways to make an impact and turn the wheels on peoples' sense of fun, humor, excitement, etc. You likely won't get there by doing nothing. So while you say "it won't work if you're introverted," I have to correct you and say it won't work if you act introverted. Everyone is capable talking and being personable whether not they want to admit it, or try. If you can speak, you can do it, even if you have to prepare a line or something like that. "Introversion" isn't really an excuse, all that means is that you have a predisposition to act a certain way. And a predisposition isn't the law or some physical force. But you might have to step out of your comfort zone. I fall somewhere in the middle of the introversion/extroversion scale. With people I want to talk to, I'm very gregarious. With people I don't want to talk to, I shut up and can't wait to leave. I flip it on and off.

 

 

 

That's sort of an anomaly. Someone who goes out with you should at least have a baseline interest in your, if they don't care to know anything, they're the ones missing out. I would say that's the exception rather than the rule. I can only think of one time something like that happened to me, and I think she was just too young (23 or so).

 

 

 

Self defeating attitude.

 

 

 

If it takes a year of rejections from a girl to convince yourself that she doesn't like you, perhaps it's not "the fundamentals" that need questioning.

 

 

My problem has and always will be a particular type of person I find attractive. There is just something different about them, the common thing has been they have all been confident and outgoing whereas I am not so much but that sort of person brings me out of my shell to a large extent. Generally they are never the bar/club/drink type. Nor are they the church going conservatives.

 

 

They seem to wear their individuality without being way out like some people are, there is quiet intelligence about them.

 

 

I agree there are ways to get people interested, I just never find anything that people find interesting. I am not uninteresting but the things I enjoy doing don't seem to interest ladies at all, there is nothing typical about me which I think makes me somewhat of an oddball.

 

My guess is you aren't introverted because trust me its really hard to step out from that, I can do it in the right company but in a bar full of random people its not possible, the environment doesn't work. In my social club where everyone has a common interest its much easier and can carry a degree of extroverted personality. Overthinking has been and still is my enemy to an extent.

 

 

Truthfully everyone I have been out with the possible exception of two has never asked my anything about myself or taken an interest in me, I take an interest in them and ultimately this becomes tiring and I ask myself why I even bothered.

 

 

Because of the huge difficulty I have in finding people I am attracted to I tend invest heavily in those I do find attractive and that's been a massive failure, at least now I have a friend I like who does make me feel good, even if it wont ever be more than friends.

 

 

Anything is possible but one must be prepared to pay the price and for me I just cannot deal with more failure and rejection, that's what it boils down to, there needs to be some tangible possibility of success if I am to put my foot into the water again.

[Inflikted]

Fair enough. I trust you know what will make you more fulfilled than I do, although you certainly seem like an anomaly. If you're happier without human interactions, so be it.

 

Well, no, I don't know what will make me feel "fulfilled". In fact, that's a bit of a reoccurring problem for me, really. I wouldn't say I'm "happy" without human interaction. I've just come to accept that it's not something that's in the cards for me.

 

Heck, growing up, my "dreams" of my ideal adult life were mostly about having friends, and finding love. But, I've spent at least half my life trying to understand people and social interactions, I've spent at least half my life trying to connect with people, and here I am at almost 28, and I still can't even hold much of a conversation with another person.

 

If I can't make any progress despite 15+ years of trying, what hope is there for me? I just don't see a purpose in continuing to torture myself with fantasies of things that are simply too far out of my reach.

 

While I've become numb to it now, I loathed myself for a very long time because I know that I'm simply too inept to be able to have the things I want. That frustrated the hell out of me, and that is perhaps the reason I eventually became numb to my situation and "gave up".

[normal person]

My problem has and always will be a particular type of person I find attractive. There is just something different about them, the common thing has been they have all been confident and outgoing whereas I am not so much but that sort of person brings me out of my shell to a large extent. Generally they are never the bar/club/drink type. Nor are they the church going conservatives.

 

They seem to wear their individuality without being way out like some people are, there is quiet intelligence about them.

 

I don't see why you'd think this is a problem. You know what you like and the kind of person that will make you happy. You'd be surprised how many people don't know this. Seemingly the problem isn't that you know what you like, it's that none of those you do like reciprocate it back.

 

I agree there are ways to get people interested, I just never find anything that people find interesting. I am not uninteresting but the things I enjoy doing don't seem to interest ladies at all, there is nothing typical about me which I think makes me somewhat of an oddball.

 

People have lived lives dramatically different from your own. They've had different circumstances and experiences and adventures. Everyone has a story to tell. No one is uninteresting. To me, someone claiming to be uninteresting would be interesting because I'd be fascinated with how and why they thought so, how they felt about it, what life like was like for them, what they were hiding, etc.

 

I'm sure there's plenty that's interesting about you like there is with everyone else. A guy your age who's in your position is intriguing (I'm not saying bring up struggles as a point of conversation, but I'm making an example here). Look at how long this thread is. Look at the responses. People are fascinated and they want to engage you about it. And, you don't have to exclusively talk about things you enjoy. State a differing an opinion on something general. Offer a unique perspective. Ruffle some feathers. Say or do things that will elicit emotional responses, preferably good ones.

 

Truthfully everyone I have been out with the possible exception of two has never asked my anything about myself or taken an interest in me, I take an interest in them and ultimately this becomes tiring and I ask myself why I even bothered.

 

I find this hard to believe, but if they don't ask what they should be asking, find a way to make sure they know. You don't have to be tooting your own horn, and I don't know your circumstances, but you can accept some agency somehow rather than just staying silent unless asked. Display a skill when necessary. Allude to something you've done when necessary. Put some bait out. Create some mystery. Know your skills and pick your spots appropriately. Examples:

 

- I started a very unique business, it's probably the first of its kind but I've never been overly vocal about it. But my friends and acquaintances are pretty quick to talk, so much so that I can't go to a wedding or party these days without at least one or two people coming up to me and saying "You're the guy who _______!"

 

- One girl I went out with had a screen name that made no illusion as to what her real name was. She had a bit of a public profile in an entertainment domain I knew nothing about, but I did Google her ahead of time and it was fun reading about her and I got really excited to meet her.

 

- I mentioned in my profile how I sometimes watch a popular game show. This girl messaged me, we went out, and we got talking about revenue streams, and she subtly dropped in the fact that she had been on the show and won money (fun fact, I saw her episodes a few months before, thought she was really cute, looked her up on Facebook and almost messaged her but decided it'd be too weird, haha). She was methodical, waited for the perfect opportunity.

 

- Another girl and I were talking about our families and just showing pictures. She was scrolling through and I recognized her dad, and it turned out she was the daughter of a local sporting legend here. There was no way she didn't plan that because we were talking about the team before we met.

 

So not over the top, arm-waving "look at me" type stuff. But organic progressions that don't seem so forced. People will think you're a douche if you try too hard to sell yourself. I saw the profile of a girl who had a little role in a movie that won an Oscar. Her whole profile was dedicated to it -- pictures with the leads, etc. It was off putting.

 

Because of the huge difficulty I have in finding people I am attracted to I tend invest heavily in those I do find attractive and that's been a massive failure, at least now I have a friend I like who does make me feel good, even if it wont ever be more than friends.

 

My guess is that when you do this, they know. By not hedging your bets you're probably broadcasting a lot more than you want to.

 

Anything is possible but one must be prepared to pay the price and for me I just cannot deal with more failure and rejection, that's what it boils down to, there needs to be some tangible possibility of success if I am to put my foot into the water again.

 

Fair enough. I think if you adopt a "couldn't care less" attitude and stopped becoming so invested in futile options, it might make you more appealing. The more content and at peace you are, the more attractive you are.

 

While I've become numb to it now, I loathed myself for a very long time because I know that I'm simply too inept to be able to have the things I want. That frustrated the hell out of me, and that is perhaps the reason I eventually became numb to my situation and "gave up".

 

You should seek some professional help. That isn't something a message board will be able to help you with.

Edited August 21, 2016 by normal person

[Inflikted]

You should seek some professional help. That isn't something a message board will be able to help you with.

 

That's okay, there isn't any helping me, anyway.

[AceCutty]

FWIW, I don't think I've ever dated someone that I noticed at first glance. So men I don't notice at first comprise my entire life of dating and relationships.

 

No need to be perfect. Just have some attractive qualities and share them confidently. It helps a lot to enjoy meeting and interacting with people.

 

I do like meeting and interacting with people. Everybody has an interesting story, especially these days with the sh*tty economy. I even considered becoming an Uber driver just to meet people (turns out my cars is too old).

 

At the same time, meeting women for dating purposes has become a chore. Many are liars and time wasters.

 

Even if I just wanted to get laid, I would still need to commit a solid 3-4 hours seducing the girl at a bar. Occasionally, I got laid within minutes, but, typically, women love to make things as much of a pain in the ass as possible.

[JuneJulySeptember]

The problem with this theory is that not everyone can actually fix their problem.

 

My biggest problem in dating is my height. OLD doesn't work for me and I have to work extremely hard to overcome this issue when I'm dating IRL. Women typically act like they're doing me a favor by going on dates with me.

 

I've identified the problem. How would you recommend I fix it? I don't have any interest in leg lengthening surgery and I can't change how society views short men.

 

My guess is that I'm shorter than you.

 

You generally have two options.

 

The first is to 'play the game' and compensate for being short by becoming wealthy, extremely witty, a semi-famous author, or all of the above (exaggerating, but you get the point). A woman will date you in spite of your height. For example, a friend of mine is my height or shorter and he is a dentist and makes a ton of $. He wouldn't have his wife if he wasn't a dentist. His wife would probably say something like "Well, he's short, BUT his money allows me the sort of life I want plus he's funny and charismatic."

 

The second is to find a woman who doesn't see lack of height as a negative. Very rare. A woman like that probably bucks the trend on a lot of society's rules. Because height being attractive to women is strongly tied to how society will view the couple in public (walking down the street, or dancing together for example). If a man and woman were stranded on a desert island, how much do you think she would care that they were the same height?

 

I'll give you an example. My girlfriend has bad teeth (although she is quite attractive). I think I noticed on the first date and maybe the second, but it was never going to be a dealbreaker. At this point, I don't even notice. It's not like her other positive attributes compensate for the fact that she has bad teeth. It just doesn't bother me, I don't care ... at all. Another man might still find her attractive, but might care what his friends thought of his girlfriend's bad teeth. I don't give a sh@t what any stupid shallow motherf@cker thinks.

 

So, yes, those are your 2 options. And I venture to guess neither is going to be easier than the other. And a lot of guys don't mind going the #1 route.

Edited August 22, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember

[xxoo]

when we fall in love, we naturally gloss over the details that others might see as unattractive. That's what the "rose colored glasses" are.

 

When love fades, then we start to see all that stuff :/

 

I'm sure that dentist's wife loves her husband as he is.

[JuneJulySeptember]

when we fall in love, we naturally gloss over the details that others might see as unattractive. That's what the "rose colored glasses" are.

 

I don't really look at it that way. Even if I wasn't in love, I don't give a sh@t what anybody thinks. Everybody could think my wife was a disgusting cow and they can all go to h@ll. I'm not going to contribute to making this world more shallow than it already is by letting society dictate what I find attractive.

[AceCutty]

My guess is that I'm shorter than you.

 

I'm 5'6. We're probably around the same height, no?

 

You generally have two options.

 

The first is to 'play the game' and compensate for being short by becoming wealthy, extremely witty, a semi-famous author, or all of the above (exaggerating, but you get the point).

We both know that you're not exaggerating that much.

 

A woman will date you in spite of your height. For example, a friend of mine is my height or shorter and he is a dentist and makes a ton of $. He wouldn't have his wife if he wasn't a dentist. His wife would probably say something like "Well, he's short, BUT his money allows me the sort of life I want plus he's funny and charismatic."

I've dated women in the past, but I have to put tons of effort in, way more than my taller friends. Not gonna lie, when I'm in a relationship or dating someone, I resent them a bit because I know that I would not be jumping through so many hoops if I was taller.

 

The second is to find a woman who doesn't see lack of height as a negative. Very rare. A woman like that probably bucks the trend on a lot of society's rules. Because height being attractive to women is strongly tied to how society will view the couple in public (walking down the street, or dancing together for example). If a man and woman were stranded on a desert island, how much do you think she would care that they were the same height?

I know from experience that there's not a woman in the US that doesn't care about height. They may still date me, but they do care. I have no trouble sleeping with women (because of my looks and personality). It's much harder to get into a relationship because women are very concerned about what society thinks and how we look in pictures.

 

I'll give you an example. My girlfriend has bad teeth (although she is quite attractive). I think I noticed on the first date and maybe the second, but it was never going to be a dealbreaker. At this point, I don't even notice. It's not like her other positive attributes compensate for the fact that she has bad teeth. It just doesn't bother me, I don't care ... at all. Another man might still find her attractive, but might care what his friends thought of his girlfriend's bad teeth. I don't give a sh@t what any stupid shallow motherf@cker thinks.

 

So, yes, those are your 2 options. And I venture to guess neither is going to be easier than the other. And a lot of guys don't mind going the #1 route.

Well, I do make good money (low 6 figures) and I'm on track to go to an ivy league business school and slide into an executive position, but I would not date a poor woman in the US. That's financial suicide right there. I want to make more money solely because I want more freedom, not because I want to attract more women. If women can't love me for who I am, then so be it. I can't fix my height and I sure as sh*t am not going to "make up" for something that I have no control over. Edited August 22, 2016 by AceCutty

[LookAtThisPOst]

My guess is that I'm shorter than you.

 

You generally have two options.

 

The first is to 'play the game' and compensate for being short by becoming wealthy, extremely witty, a semi-famous author, or all of the above (exaggerating, but you get the point). A woman will date you in spite of your height. For example, a friend of mine is my height or shorter and he is a dentist and makes a ton of $. He wouldn't have his wife if he wasn't a dentist. His wife would probably say something like "Well, he's short, BUT his money allows me the sort of life I want plus he's funny and charismatic."

 

The second is to find a woman who doesn't see lack of height as a negative. Very rare. A woman like that probably bucks the trend on a lot of society's rules. Because height being attractive to women is strongly tied to how society will view the couple in public (walking down the street, or dancing together for example). If a man and woman were stranded on a desert island, how much do you think she would care that they were the same height?

 

I'll give you an example. My girlfriend has bad teeth (although she is quite attractive). I think I noticed on the first date and maybe the second, but it was never going to be a dealbreaker. At this point, I don't even notice. It's not like her other positive attributes compensate for the fact that she has bad teeth. It just doesn't bother me, I don't care ... at all. Another man might still find her attractive, but might care what his friends thought of his girlfriend's bad teeth. I don't give a sh@t what any stupid shallow motherf@cker thinks.

 

So, yes, those are your 2 options. And I venture to guess neither is going to be easier than the other. And a lot of guys don't mind going the #1 route.

 

Funny you mention this.

 

The last girlfriend I was with told me she never cares about looks in a partner. Never have, even asked her for fun what her favorite celebrity crush is and she said, "Well, I don't care about looks, but if I had to choose" and she named off someone. She qualified it with, "I don't care about looks..."

 

And most women I have dated said it in the same fashion or another. I had one that said she thinks that I'm funny and have a great personality, didn't say much about my looks.

 

These women are rare finds, but it can happen. Most are usually spoken for or married because they knew better not to be overly picky about such things.

[xxoo]

I don't really look at it that way. Even if I wasn't in love, I don't give a sh@t what anybody thinks. Everybody could think my wife was a disgusting cow and they can all go to h@ll. I'm not going to contribute to making this world more shallow than it already is by letting society dictate what I find attractive.

 

I was talking about our own perceptions of our partner's attractiveness, when in love vs. when not. Not society's.

 

I agree with you about not caring what society thinks about my partner.

 

I'm 5'6. We're probably around the same height, no?

 

We both know that you're not exaggerating that much.

 

I've dated women in the past, but I have to put tons of effort in, way more than my taller friends. Not gonna lie, when I'm in a relationship or dating someone, I resent them a bit because I know that I would not be jumping through so many hoops if I was taller.

 

Actually, the tall guys shoot a lot of hoops! (joke )

 

All I can tell you is that I've been animalistically attracted to men your height and shorter. Those guys knew what effect they were having on me and enjoyed every minute of it. They didn't seem to resent the effort.

Edited August 22, 2016 by xxoo

[ZA Dater]

I don't see why you'd think this is a problem. You know what you like and the kind of person that will make you happy. You'd be surprised how many people don't know this. Seemingly the problem isn't that you know what you like, it's that none of those you do like reciprocate it back.

 

You have no idea how hard that is, firstly to find someone you like and secondly to find they don't like you, thirdly to find those you really don't like are besotted with you. Its this which has put me off dating, perhaps more so than the rejection to a degree.

 

People have lived lives dramatically different from your own. They've had different circumstances and experiences and adventures. Everyone has a story to tell. No one is uninteresting. To me, someone claiming to be uninteresting would be interesting because I'd be fascinated with how and why they thought so, how they felt about it, what life like was like for them, what they were hiding, etc.

 

 

Again I agree but yet they all talk about the same things generally speaking. I don't usually feel any sort of connection, the people I feel connections with are those who do similar things to me, have similar talents BUT have something intangible about them which appeals to me.

 

I'm sure there's plenty that's interesting about you like there is with everyone else. A guy your age who's in your position is intriguing (I'm not saying bring up struggles as a point of conversation, but I'm making an example here). Look at how long this thread is. Look at the responses. People are fascinated and they want to engage you about it. And, you don't have to exclusively talk about things you enjoy. State a differing an opinion on something general. Offer a unique perspective. Ruffle some feathers. Say or do things that will elicit emotional responses, preferably good ones.

 

Haha the bold part made me laugh, lets substitute intriguing with sad shall we. Generally one of the things I am trying to solve in general is to project confidence but to project something relevant and interesting to the intended recipient. I am writing a book, guess how many dates bothered to ask me about it when I mention it, NOT ONE. Telling.

 

I am lucky to live a pretty cool life sometimes, just this weekend a did an amazing road trip but when I have mentioned those sorts of things in the past its got me nowhere. I really don't know what I should be saying.

 

 

I find this hard to believe, but if they don't ask what they should be asking, find a way to make sure they know. You don't have to be tooting your own horn, and I don't know your circumstances, but you can accept some agency somehow rather than just staying silent unless asked. Display a skill when necessary. Allude to something you've done when necessary. Put some bait out. Create some mystery. Know your skills and pick your spots appropriately. Examples:

 

- I started a very unique business, it's probably the first of its kind but I've never been overly vocal about it. But my friends and acquaintances are pretty quick to talk, so much so that I can't go to a wedding or party these days without at least one or two people coming up to me and saying "You're the guy who _______!"

 

- One girl I went out with had a screen name that made no illusion as to what her real name was. She had a bit of a public profile in an entertainment domain I knew nothing about, but I did Google her ahead of time and it was fun reading about her and I got really excited to meet her.

 

- I mentioned in my profile how I sometimes watch a popular game show. This girl messaged me, we went out, and we got talking about revenue streams, and she subtly dropped in the fact that she had been on the show and won money (fun fact, I saw her episodes a few months before, thought she was really cute, looked her up on Facebook and almost messaged her but decided it'd be too weird, haha). She was methodical, waited for the perfect opportunity.

 

- Another girl and I were talking about our families and just showing pictures. She was scrolling through and I recognized her dad, and it turned out she was the daughter of a local sporting legend here. There was no way she didn't plan that because we were talking about the team before we met.

 

So not over the top, arm-waving "look at me" type stuff. But organic progressions that don't seem so forced. People will think you're a douche if you try too hard to sell yourself. I saw the profile of a girl who had a little role in a movie that won an Oscar. Her whole profile was dedicated to it -- pictures with the leads, etc. It was off putting.

 

 

Very valid points and quite true, having the persona to pull this off is quite another thing. I have tried it but the issue always seems to be I speak in a complicated way which leaves the audience totally confused or the content of what I say has no relevance or cannot be related to. The people I found attractive GOT me on this, they could give me the same challenge back and I found that really attractive.

 

 

 

My guess is that when you do this, they know. By not hedging your bets you're probably broadcasting a lot more than you want to.

 

 

Possibly true, I play open cards most of time with people.

 

 

 

Fair enough. I think if you adopt a "couldn't care less" attitude and stopped becoming so invested in futile options, it might make you more appealing. The more content and at peace you are, the more attractive you are.

 

Investing in options gives me something to work with, otherwise I just exist and that's not a lovely place to be either. In fact its pretty awful so I can make myself think I have a chance even if factually speaking I don't have a chance at all. I like investing in people generally, they think I am mad mostly.

 

 

You should seek some professional help. That isn't something a message board will be able to help you with.

 

 

The other issue at the moment is I just want the small things, the friendship seems to work but I cant really figure that out either, weeks pass and she doesn't communicate with me at all, do I msg her or do I leave it? Do I ask about things she has told me because I am just confused how much of interest I should show as a friend because she doesn't seem to show a great degree of interest in me.

[SoThatHappened]

"I am writing a book, guess how many dates bothered to ask me about it when I mention it, NOT ONE. Telling. "

 

I hear you on this, man. It seems like 90% of the people I've talked to, whether business or pleasure, just don't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves, or don't want to hear about anyone but themselves.

 

I don't know if it's an age thing, cultural thing, or something else.

 

If someone I meet actually seems interested in my stories or at least asks ABOUT me, their stock soars. They are now a friend. If she's attractive, even better.

 

People suck.

 

I have learned to quickly "next" people who can't ask questions about me when I'm doing all the work to keep a conversation (about them) going. I highly advise it.

[normal person]

If you're on a date with someone who doesn't want to know anything about you, that's her problem, not yours. That's kind of anomaly. Anyways, women usually expect you to lead. I usually lead the discussion for a good 15-20 minutes and ask her as much as I can, trying to delay talking about myself as much as possible. Usually by then, she's exhausted and just wants to sit and listen anyways.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Well, I do make good money (low 6 figures) and I'm on track to go to an ivy league business school and slide into an executive position, but I would not date a poor woman in the US. That's financial suicide right there. I want to make more money solely because I want more freedom, not because I want to attract more women. If women can't love me for who I am, then so be it. I can't fix my height and I sure as sh*t am not going to "make up" for something that I have no control over.

 

Well. Being in your mid to late 20s and making 110 to 125K a year would put you in the top ~ 0.2% of persons in the States I'm sure. It would put you in the company of people who graduated from Stanford and Harvard and work at Google or Wall Street, lucky pharmacists, and engineers who were able to kiss-a@@ to management positions in a handful of years, or lucky and successful entrepreneurs.

 

So, if you are that successful, then the height thing would not be a problem ... at all. Lots of women go for guys like that.

 

Unfortunately, on the internet, making 110 to 125K a year only puts you in the top 50th percentile of 20 somethings at best.