What is BS thinking?!

[elaine567]

Sorry, the story is coming out in fragments over the whole thread and is hard to follow. For the past 6 years the business has been paying off a huge mortgage. Between the mortgage and the other bills it has been a money pit. But this month W came into some money and, despite H's protests is putting it into paying off that mortgage. That goes through at the end of his month. Starting next month there's finally going to be some extra money to go around because it's not going into that mortgage payment any more.

 

If he truly is a nice guy then now is the time for him to come clean to his wife and not let her sink her money into paying off that mortgage, or time to tell her he will sign the business over to her. .

[Midwestmissy]

This all sounds kind of nutty to me. However, people who are in deep emotionally in an affair, can justify anything. No matter what the OP thinks she firmly knows, she has no clue what happens in that marriage. Her mm is also a confirmed liar.

 

If I'm speaking to my husband on the phone with someone in ear shot, the conversation is very different than when the call is private. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person like this. The OP has a lot of disdain for a woman 3000 miles away. My husband totally rewrote our marriage to the ow. It made her up her game. She was told a sliver of a half truth by a lying cheat. And as far as the finances, boy did he lie to her about those too. Somehow he knew that if he cried to her about his actual money situation, the pillow talk was going to end differently than if he implied he had a ton of money and that he was slaving away unappreciated and giving me a lavish lifestyle. She struggles financially with a large family so maybe my life could be hers if she just showed her appreciation more.

 

And yes, it's very possible the bw knows nothing. Because you were not in the room when he changed the whole story and convinced her otherwise like his life depended on it. The ow in my husbands affair adopted a very cool, elevated affect about our marriage and family because she believed she was privy to all of it. Her blasé attitude about marriage, her willingness to work ridiculous hours in spite of 4 kids, it was as much a lie as what my h did. She loved being seen as the cool girl. Her arrogance over rode her ignorance and was the reason everything blew up. She got very indiscreet because she thought she knew more than anyone and that her $$ ship had come in. In fact, she was just believing his lies. Then she was embarrassed, then she was mad, then she got fired. Hubris. I'm surprised neither of them had a heart attack from all the stress.

[Lois_Griffin]

A theory of mine is that she is basically waiting until the business is profitable enough to pay her bills and then all hell will break loose, but we'll see.

Only if she's smart.

 

I think MM is a big fat liar.

 

As another poster said - he had the ultimate opportunity to END it when she found out about the affair. Dollars to donuts, he was right there lying his way out of it, clinging to her skirt, begging her not leave him, and proclaiming his never-ending love for her.

 

You only have HIS word to go on and we all pretty much know how that goes.

[Poppy47]

I agree with Lois.

 

You don't know squat about the reality of his relationship with his wife or what goes on.

 

He isn't a nice guy. He wouldn't be doing this if he were.

 

Listening in on his conversations with her means nothing. He will say what he wants you to hear.... nothing else.

 

I left an affair when I woke up to the fact that the MM was pulling all the strings. He dripped information to me and his wife knew nothing.

 

Ultimately, I had no trust in him and believed nothing he had told me.

 

I admire you for having you independence. Keep and honour it. Some women earn it the hard way , like you and I.

 

Poppy.

[stillafool]

 

I sense maybe the high opinion of his W bothers you. He holds her on a pedestal and has no problem providing her a business to run and keep her comfortable financially. Do you want all that she has? A man that finds no fault with her and who he financially keeps well.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading this thread. This man has his wife so high up on a pedestal I'm surprised her nose isn't constantly bleeding. He has pretty much told you she is perfect, everyone in their town loves her and guess what? So does he. He isn't going to tell her he's having an affair and he certainly isn't going to ask her for a divorce. I doubt that story about the friends telling her about the affair is true.

 

What I don't understand is why haven't you told him you don't want him to divorce her? You have said yourself that he might want to live with you, which you are opposed to, yet you want him to tell his wife. The MMs stress isn't just caused by his lies but more about the extreme guilt of what he is doing to this angelic woman. The guilt is probably eating him alive. If you are happy with your arrangement with him as it stands now I would think you would encourage him to keep his mouth shut.

[Lois_Griffin]

The guilt is probably eating him alive. If you are happy with your arrangement with him as it stands now I would think you would encourage him to keep his mouth shut.

It's kind of hard to believe that someone of this low character has guilt.

 

I mean seriously, anyone who can sit on the couch and lie to his wife on the phone while his mistress sits right there listening to their conversation has very little guilt about anything.

 

But it sure says a lot about his lack of character and common decency.

[stillafool]

It's kind of hard to believe that someone of this low character has guilt.

 

I mean seriously, anyone who can sit on the couch and lie to his wife on the phone while his mistress sits right there listening to their conversation has very little guilt about anything.

 

But it sure says a lot about his lack of character and common decency.

 

You're right this man has the lowest of characters but even people with low characters can feel guilt.

[loveisanaction]

I agree with the poster/s who said that you do want this man to divorce his wife. You are lying to yourself that you don't want him to divorce her, yes you do. You want him to divorce his wife because you have feelings for him.

 

You see his wife as a threat. He is still legally married to her and even though he whispers sweet nothings into your ear and you're having a great time with him right now, he could still walk away from you at a moment's notice. You want what his wife has, this is why you are here.

 

Your married man does not want to divorce his wife and she does not want to divorce him. Neither of them are new to getting divorces, they both know how to divorce so what's the hold up? Friends told his wife about you, that was the perfect opportunity for your married man to push his wife into divorcing him, yet here they are-still married. From your post you seemed really disappointed that she didn't divorce him then even though you're shouting at the roof tops that it isn't what you want. Uh-huh! Keep deceiving yourself of that.

 

‘If we knew what she was thinking’….You mean if YOU knew what she was thinking. I’ll tell you what she’s thinking, she is not divorcing him and you can take that to the bank. She likes her home, she likes her husband and she enjoys running their business-none of which you are entitled to. Why should she change all of that because you have feelings for her husband?

 

Please!

[anika99]

I've read your posts on this thread several times now and none of it is making sense. Starting with the BW refuses to discuss relationship problems with her husband. What relationship problems? According to you she and her husband were very happily married for a year and then he made the choice to move away to finance his business. So what relationship troubles do they have other then the distance and the cheating which she is unaware of? You make her sound like she is being wilfully avoidant but it seems to me that because of the situation she is simply unaware that her marriage is in trouble. She was happily married when her husband left to work elsewhere to fulfill their common goals. Why would she think that has changed?

 

Then you say that your MM claims when he last went home he tried over and over again to talk with her about divorce but she just told him not to leave her and then gave him dead silence. Lol..have you tried picturing that conversation? He told her over and over again that he wanted to divorce and she did what?....put her fingers in her ears and went " lalalalalalalala I can't hear you" lol..what he is describing to you is highly unlikely. Again try to picture this interaction so that you can realize how ridiculous of a lie you are being told.

 

Also you say she immediately divorced her first husband immediately upon discovery of her spouses cheating. She is now living on her own for the past 2 yrs and running a business while her husband lives far away. She seems to be a strong independent woman who has control of her life. Yet you also describe her as a woman who is desperate to hold onto her husband at any cost. That doesn't make any sense. Why, after having no problem kicking out her first husband of many years would she suddenly be so weak and needy for a man who she doesn't even see more than a few times a year? Doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Lastly you seem to have some sort of problem with her getting any financial gain from this marriage or her husband. I know you have said that is not true but the things you have said and the wording you have used make me think you do. First by saying he supports her. He doesn't support her. She is working at his business so she is earning her money, whether it comes from the business or from him doesn't matter. She is working for what she has. Then later you say you would like him to get his business and money back but he is happy to let his wife have it. What do you even mean by getting his business and money back? That he should take it all away from his wife? Since you say he is happy to let her have it then why is this a concern of yours. You say you have no interest or need of anything financial from the MM but you also say you are dependent on a disability pension. I live in Canada as well and people I have known who are living solely on disability pensions are not well off. They get enough to live on but they have to be frugal and careful with their spending so I think it does bother you that your MM is supporting (meaning paying his wife for her hard work).

 

I think when it comes to what is best for you in this affair it's more to your benefit for the MM to stay married. You can't live with him, marry him or contribute to his life financially or work wise. If he divorces he will suddenly have a lot of women available to him, especially if he has a successful business. As he is a lying cheating self serving man he will be looking at what other women have to offer should he divorce. If you want to keep this relationship going and not be dumped or cheated then you need him to stay married.

[ChickiePops]

Sorry, the story is coming out in fragments over the whole thread and is hard to follow. For the past 6 years the business has been paying off a huge mortgage. Between the mortgage and the other bills it has been a money pit. But this month W came into some money and, despite H's protests is putting it into paying off that mortgage. That goes through at the end of his month. Starting next month there's finally going to be some extra money to go around because it's not going into that mortgage payment any more.

 

Thank you for your insight into the relationship. I think you're right. He is such a nice guy in general people are going to have a really hard time believing he's cheating on his sweet W.

 

I don't want a single thing she has. I'm set up for my future and I value my independence and pride far too much to ever become dependent on anyone ever again. I lived in a hellish marriage way too long. I take care of me now. I mingle my finances with no one. I take from no one.

 

When you're with married men you are taking time and effort and a sense of security away from their families. So you do take something. Yes, the married man is giving it to you, but you have admitted that you actively seek to have affairs so this is intentional on your part. This is not the victimless crime you think it is. Affairs change marriages whether they're discovered or not.

 

You mentioned in one post that you thought you'd be supported here by others who enjoy your lifestyle. Most people who come here come because they're in pain, but you happily flit from married man to married man, either uncaring or in complete denial about the devastation you're causing so it kind of feels like you're laughing at everyone for being hurt by affairs when you're so happy about them. Perhaps if you'd try harder to understand how others are feeling, you might get more understanding yourself.

[ladydesigner]

When you're with married men you are taking time and effort and a sense of security away from their families. So you do take something. Yes, the married man is giving it to you, but you have admitted that you actively seek to have affairs so this is intentional on your part. This is not the victimless crime you think it is. Affairs change marriages whether they're discovered or not.

 

You mentioned in one post that you thought you'd be supported here by others who enjoy your lifestyle. Most people who come here come because they're in pain, but you happily flit from married man to married man, either uncaring or in complete denial about the devastation you're causing so it kind of feels like you're laughing at everyone for being hurt by affairs when you're so happy about them. Perhaps if you'd try harder to understand how others are feeling, you might get more understanding yourself.

 

^^^Spot on post!

 

ThinkMore I believe you are justifying your behavior by labeling yourself 'unconventional'

[ThinkMore]

It's really difficult for folks to understand the situation when you're relying on the little bit of information I've shared in this written environment where it's so hard to present a clear picture. I was not expecting support here. I came for different perspectives that I might learn from and I've gotten that, thank you. I'm not going to worry about the condemnation. Water off a duck's back.

 

This forum is full of hurting people, people like I used to be, shackled by religious dogma and patrician society, where we all expect people to behave a certain way and then we're shocked when they act like how people have always behaved. Then we condemn the evil-doers. Well people still haven't changed. They still lie and cheat and steal and all sorts of other things people aren't supposed to do.

 

My days of depression and being suicidal are over. I've created a world for myself where I'm happy. I don't rely on anyone. My financial situation is better than the hints at it I've shared. If this man dumps me or betrays me or whatever I'm ready for it. I expect no more from him. Anything good he does is a pleasant surprise. Whatever happens I'm going to land on my feet and keep on running.

[Cloudcuckoo]

Marriage counsellors all over the world will be excited to learn their services are no longer needed by anyone.

 

Actual human men are often kinda dumb. They do stupid things.[/

 

Their services are designed to help two people in a marriage find solutions together.....

Edited July 26, 2016 by Cloudcuckoo

[ThinkMore]

Marriage counsellors all over the world will be excited to learn their services are no longer needed by anyone.

 

Actual human men are often kinda dumb. They do stupid things.[/

 

Their services are designed to help two people in a marriage find solutions together.....

 

Sorry, I was being a bit silly over what seemed an overly broad statement. MM who are frustrated with things at home are often more likely to run to a dating site than a marriage counsellor. Sad but true. Many of the guys who claim they aren't getting enough sex at home turn out to have very poor love-making skills. I don't want to have sex with those guys either. They're surprisingly willing to accept sex education from a woman over the Internet though.

[ladydesigner]

It's really difficult for folks to understand the situation when you're relying on the little bit of information I've shared in this written environment where it's so hard to present a clear picture. I was not expecting support here. I came for different perspectives that I might learn from and I've gotten that, thank you. I'm not going to worry about the condemnation. Water off a duck's back.

 

This forum is full of hurting people, people like I used to be, shackled by religious dogma and patrician society, where we all expect people to behave a certain way and then we're shocked when they act like how people have always behaved. Then we condemn the evil-doers. Well people still haven't changed. They still lie and cheat and steal and all sorts of other things people aren't supposed to do.

 

My days of depression and being suicidal are over. I've created a world for myself where I'm happy. I don't rely on anyone. My financial situation is better than the hints at it I've shared. If this man dumps me or betrays me or whatever I'm ready for it. I expect no more from him. Anything good he does is a pleasant surprise. Whatever happens I'm going to land on my feet and keep on running.

 

You are correct in this statement although it does not mean we need to surround ourselves around such people and not all people behave in ways that shock other people. If your POV works for you that is wonderful. I don't really care to condemn evil-doers I just want no part of them if that makes sense. I chose to surround myself around like-minded people and I don't care for liars and cheaters one bit.

[MJJean]

Sorry, the story is coming out in fragments over the whole thread and is hard to follow. For the past 6 years the business has been paying off a huge mortgage. Between the mortgage and the other bills it has been a money pit. But this month W came into some money and, despite H's protests is putting it into paying off that mortgage. That goes through at the end of his month. Starting next month there's finally going to be some extra money to go around because it's not going into that mortgage payment any more.

 

If the law in Canada is similar to the law in the US, and we assume the MM is being relatively honest, then he'd be a fool to divorce. She could easily walk away with a sizable chunk of the marital assets. If MM isn't willing to just give her the business (that she has been running) and the property they have a sizable mortgage on (that she used her inheritance to pay off), they'd either have to sell and split the profits after any marital debts have been settled or he'd have to buy her out.

 

He can say what he wants when he's with you, but actions are much more telling. If he wanted out and didn't care about the $$ from the business and the other assets they own, he'd be out. He doesn't want to let go of his hard-working sweet wife or the assets they have acquired together.

 

 

ThinkMore I believe you are justifying your behavior by labeling yourself 'unconventional'

 

I swear, the idea that a woman seeing a married man is unconventional cracks me up. It's been labeled many different ways over the centuries, but having a mistress or being a mistress is conventional as all hell.

[ThinkMore]

Of course actions will speak louder than words. Again assuming MM is being at least somewhat honest his lawyer and accountant advised him to not do anything until that mortgage was out of the way at least. He says he will give her the business and their house. All he wants is a trailer hitch out of the garage. He also has said all along he won't admit to what he's doing over the phone. He'll go there in person and tell her to her face. The first opportunity for any of this to happen is the end if this month. I'll be watching.

 

There is nothing unconventional about cheating or mistresses. I would argue the opposite, that that is the normal state for many people. Expecting them to be monogamous is what's crazy.

[ChickiePops]

Of course actions will speak louder than words. Again assuming MM is being at least somewhat honest his lawyer and accountant advised him to not do anything until that mortgage was out of the way at least. He says he will give her the business and their house. All he wants is a trailer hitch out of the garage. He also has said all along he won't admit to what he's doing over the phone. He'll go there in person and tell her to her face. The first opportunity for any of this to happen is the end if this month. I'll be watching.

 

There is nothing unconventional about cheating or mistresses. I would argue the opposite, that that is the normal state for many people. Expecting them to be monogamous is what's crazy.

 

That's nice but when a man marries a woman, if you shove all the religious and societal expectations out of it, he's still promising her that he won't cheat. When someone makes you a promise, do you truly not expect them to keep it?

[Lady2163]

Of course actions will speak louder than words. Again assuming MM is being at least somewhat honest his lawyer and accountant advised him to not do anything until that mortgage was out of the way at least. He says he will give her the business and their house. All he wants is a trailer hitch out of the garage. He also has said all along he won't admit to what he's doing over the phone. He'll go there in person and tell her to her face. The first opportunity for any of this to happen is the end if this month. I'll be watching.

 

There is nothing unconventional about cheating or mistresses. I would argue the opposite, that that is the normal state for many people. Expecting them to be monogamous is what's crazy.

 

This made me chuckle. I have a friend who the very first thing she and her husband divided was about 500 videotapes. She talks about how so very civilized they were. They made three piles. Yours, mine and ours. At the end, they both took turns picking one at a time from the "ours" pile.

 

Videotapes. How'd that work out long term?

 

When you say all he wants is a trailer hitch, all I can think of ismthat $20 piece...the male part that attaches to the female part of a truck for towing.

 

I'm guessing you mean a trailer of some kind. Surely he's not clinging to his marriage over a $20 piece of metal. Geez, at some point, who cares? Assuming it's not an antique trailer that his great great grandpa built with his bare hands and a few rocks....let it go.

[ThinkMore]

People make promises all the time and end up breaking them. Nothing new there.

 

I dont understand the trailer hitch either but apparently it has something to do with connecting a fifth wheel trailer to a truck. If he's going to drive all the way there he figures he should bring something back.

 

My ex and I had a completely amicable divorce. Didn't argue about a thing.

[ChickiePops]

Yes people do break promises all the time but that doesn't mean you have to happily and purposefully seek people out and offer to help them do so for your own selfish pleasure.

 

So again I ask, when people make promises to YOU, do you want them to break those promises? Are you happy when they do?

 

If everyone behaved the way you do and did whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted with no regard for anyone but themselves, we wouldn't have a society to rebel against.

 

Your story doesn't add up and the more details you give, the less real it all sounds. I'm out.

[ThinkMore]

I do my best to keep the promises I make and have an excellent track record at it. As for other people, I start with the assumption they mean well (usually right), and if the break a promise I no longer get excited about it. Makes for a peaceful existence for me.

 

My story isn't typical of your life experience. Happens.

[minimariah]

He also has said all along he won't admit to what he's doing over the phone. He'll go there in person and tell her to her face. The first opportunity for any of this to happen is the end if this month.

 

i don't understand.

from your opening post:

 

He can't quite bring himself to blurt out the truth though. He can't see himself hurting her with such a statement.

 

On his last visit he made it abundantly clear he was unhappy with the marriage. He tried to discuss divorce with her, over and over. She told him not to leave her and refused to say another word.

 

if we follow these statements from your opening post - it turns out that he already had MANY opportunities to tell her the truth to her face but 1. he couldn't do it because he didn't want to hurt her 2. he wanted to do it but she didn't want to listen & just blacked it all out. so... which one is it?

 

Expecting them to be monogamous is what's crazy.

 

but why...? your MM - for example - IS monogamous. he is in a monogamous relationship with you. NOT being monogamous means having more than one romantic relationship... just because someone is cheating, it doesn't mean that they aren't monogamous.

 

i don't understand why you want his W to know. if he plans to divorce her - then she doesn't need to know about the A, what is the point...? if he doesn't plan to divorce her, why would she know about the A...? there is no logical or good reason for her to know about the A. the cause of your MM's stress isn't lying to his wife because - due to the distance - his lies are minimal... it's due to YOUR affair. it actually seems like your relationship with him is what's causing him stress - not the lying to his wife part.

 

you seem annoyed at the fact the she doesn't want to know or doesn't see the signs. you identify your MM being conflict avoidant as being NICE. you saying that "you really don't want to hurt her" comes off as rude and condescending because you're already hurting her. your MM had many chances to tell her the truth - he didn't. and even you can't decide WHY. is it his fault because he is so nice and doesn't want to hurt her or is it her fault because he did try to tell her but she won't listen?

 

you keep trying to flip this onto folks being hurt or angry - i'm not hurt or angry. but a lot of things just don't add up in your posts and it seems like you have alot to work through/be honest about. you're not as nearly as calm as you claim you are/want to be. your posts are a dead giveaway.

Edited July 27, 2016 by minimariah

[Midwestmissy]

Why do you care what the bs is thinking as per your original post? She's making decisions based on false information. You may be too. Maybe mm likes triangulating you 2 women. He's firmly planted in the middle not because he's so confused and torn and doesn't know what to do, poor sausage, but because he's exactly where he wants to be.

 

You claim here to be unconventional and some other sort of elevated stuff. A wise woman once said, "if you have to say you is, you ain't."

 

I think this situation bothers you more than you care to admit. Frankly trying to figure out what someone you don't even know is thinking, is a real waste of time. You can't ever know. I'd be way more concerned about what mm is manipulating. He's more of a threat to you than she is.

 

We often hear "I didn't make a vow to the bs, so I didn't do anything wrong," but then the ow often ruminate on and (for lack of a better word) obsess about the bs. Then after dday, the bs cyber stalks the ow and the ow cries foul, bs is behaving cruelly. Waah. That such behavior is distasteful and mean. For goodness sake, the mm is the provoker of all this kaka. And he has 2 women in a tizzy. For him.

[cocorico]

 

But given all her actions, does she even want to know? What can she possibly be thinking? Is she just blocking unwanted information from her conscious mind. Shouldn't it be bothering her on some level?

 

We really don't want to hurt her. I wouldn't mind them continuing things as is. Stay married. Just stop lying to her. But what do you do with someone who refuses to discuss anything? It's like she thinks as long as she doesn't talk nothing bad can happen. But seriously????

 

Chances are she can't afford (emotionally) to consider the possibility of him being unfaithful, since - were she to act congruently with her espoused morals - shed then need to dump him as she dumped her previous H. So she invests in denial, hoping to salvage the marriage by simply insisting that everything is fine.

 

My H's xBW tried the same tactic. It didn't work, but it did allow her cushion herself against the reality of being dumped for a little while. Your guy has expressed to you an intention not to leave her floundering economically - she has no such confidence in that at this stage, given the precarity of the business and her sinking money into the mortgage, and she also has the prospect of her emotional security to consider.

 

It sounds as though he's checked out, and she's clinging to hope that he hasn't, and tuning out evidence to allow herself he luxury of denial. She's not the first BW to do woman's won't be the last.