Is he really still in love with his ex after nearly a decade?

[Iluvsiamese]

I will try to make this as concise as possible. I have been involved in a relationship with a great guy for nearly two years now and we have been living together for one. We have both been married before. Therein lies the dilemma. We have both been upfront about our former relationships from the beginning and at that time, I did not get the feeling that there was anything residual there. He was involved in a long term relationship after his divorce and prior to meeting me. He seldom mentions this woman and when he does he more often than not talks about her children being spoiled. He is my first relationship since my divorce and we are constantly amazed at how so many of our preferences are alike. This is easily the best relationship I have ever had with anyone. My feelings for my former spouse are much like those we have towards mosquitos.

 

So a little over a year into this, he begins to talk alot about his ex-wife. Initially, I was unconcerned but as this escalated, I began to get rather uncomfortable with it. I heard stories about virtually everything--their wedding, their honeymoon, their homes, their pets, her kids, their trips, their sex life, you name it. It got to the point where it was part of daily conversation. He is still in touch with one of her grown children and has had them to dinner at our house on a couple of occasions. Of course, the ex came up in conversation. What makes this disturbing is his tone of voice when he is talking about her. It is not factual or emotionless, it's actually rather sappy. This led to a blow up just before Christmas. He has made plenty of effort to limit his stories since then, but just about the time I begin to relax, it pops up again one way or another. His favorite song is "If I Could Turn Back Time" by Cher and I could just throw up when he plays it.

 

The icing on the cake came a couple of months ago. We were at a friend's house and the guys got blitzed, which was rather funny--at least, until we got home. While I was making his coffee for him, he started talking about people who cheat on their spouses and moved on to how he had never cheated when he was married and then went into full blown mourning over his marriage. He stated that he loves his wife and that he had screwed up the relationship and he was sooo, sooo sorry. I thought he might start crying. While it was something that I had suspected, I had hoped that I was wrong and the revelation just made me go numb. Since their marriage has been over for nearly a decade, I kept telling myself that I was being silly.

 

We have discussed this a few times since then and he swears that he loves me, never intends to revisit his marriage, is afraid of losing me, and says that I am the love of his life. He says that his relationship with his wife was troubled from the very beginning and didn't improve over the years. They had their good times, but from things that he has told me, I am amazed that they married. There were some jaw droppers there and she seems to have been a bit neurotic. I get the impression that he perhaps feels guilty that he did not try harder to prevent the divorce. I think he just gave up trying to make her happy. It seems that she was never satisfied, nothing made her happy and there was always something better just out of reach. I have seen the type.

 

So here are the pros: he treats me wonderfully, we get along great and agree on nearly everthing. We agree that this is the best we have ever had it. He doesn't just say he loves me, he shows me. And I can't help but love him so much. The chances of her showing up on our doorstep are pretty limited. Why would I want to throw this away?

 

Well, I don't but the constant reminders can drive me nuts. He obviously still thinks about her daily. He has hung on to alot things--dishes, linens, pictures, his wedding ring, her crafts, etc. While he has gotten rid of some things that he couldn't hide were hers, there are others that we both know are here and he hasn't disposed of any of them. He has also made it clear that he doesn't intend to remarry and there are a variety of excuses for this, none of them very valid ones which leads me to believe that he simply doesn't want to close the door on his marriage.

 

So. Do I go on and gently try to make him forget her and pretend that none of this bothers me, just enjoy what I have? (Which I am truly grateful for) Or do I tell him to go and see her and either get her back or get over her? I settle on the former and things go along just fine, but when he brings her up again, I lean toward the latter, it just p****s me off so much. (And I confess, I have gotten over sensitive about it, IMO.)

 

Sorry for the length, are you confused yet?

[very-confused-girl]

I feel for you. I am myself involved in a relationship with a guy who had had an 8 years-lasting relationship before we met. Actually they had been broken up already 5 years before we met, but they are still friends and he even admits he still loves her in a very strange way - like his sister.)

 

But I do believe that the longer I am with him, the more involved is he with me. I am trying to slowly erase her from his mind and make him forget about her by the love and care that I give to him and (I cant deny that) by amazing sex that we have together.

 

I think that to some extent talking about past relationships is normal and you should be even glad that he is not hiding anything. If she was still somehow in the picture he would rather try to hide it and not to talk about her and keep her as a secret. You can be pretty certain that she is not issue here anymore.

[Iluvsiamese]

Thanks. It's a difficult situation to be in, isn't it? There isn't anything that is really clear cut.

 

There are times when I have wondered if he is simply talking it out. But then he did his confession thing and then I wasn't sure what to make of it. He says that he still loves her, but is not "in love" with her. However, his voice when he talks about her is not like he talks about anyone else. Having listened to him ramble, there is no way that his feelings toward her are like a sister. He talks about her neurosis as if it's cute--it's not.

 

I know that she was a major part of his life even though his marriage did not last as long as mine. In addition, mine did a slow death from the day we were married whereas his divorce was a complete surprise to him. They did the anniversary up in style, she went home to visit her family and when she got back, she dropped the bomb. Weird. However, 10 years later I think that it's time to move on completely. I mean, he got back from sea today and we were barely in the door and what does he talk about? How it used to be when she picked him up when he got home from sea. It spoiled the moment for me but I did not let on. I sometimes wonder if I am too tolerant. I'm sure that alot of other people would have ditched her stuff and told him to get over it or move on.

 

Like you say, I am grateful that he is someone who tend to be upfront to the point of bluntness. If he did decide he was going to try to get her back, I would be the first to know and there would be no skirting the issue. But it sure would be easier for me if he would lay her to rest.

[InLimbo2]

It's possible that in the time span between the end of their marriage and when he met you - particularly since it was a total surprise to him - that he never processed/mourned/grieved the end of his marriage - just stuffed it down. So why's it coming out now? Maybe because he's in love again and that brings all these feelings back to the surface? Maybe because he was so in love with her and the end was a sudden shock and his greatest fear is that the same will happen with you two? I know that's a major fear for my guy - very very similar situation.

[Iluvsiamese]

Could be. But he had a 6 year relationship after his marriage where he at least thought he was in love. I do feel though that he is the type who feels very intensely and avoids facing his feelings by burying himself in work and activities. This can be a part of the healing process, but it can also be a way to avoid ever feeling anything.

 

My concern, I guess, apart from the constant reminders, is that I am rebuilding my life with this man. I'd like to think that if his wife ever did decide to show up (remote but possible) that he would chose me. But given his behaviour, I find it hard to believe him when he says that he has closed the book on his marriage. It is easy to say such if you think that there is no chance that she will ever come back. Faced with the reality, though, it might be different. I once asked him what he would do if she showed up at our house and he said he didn't know. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

 

He has said that his greatest fear is that he will screw things up with me. If he continues to hang on to his wife, then I have to say that this is a legitimate fear and it is also something that he is aware of. I am not an unreasonable person and I am very tolerant. I know that he can't let go overnight. But how long is reasonable? I thought that 10 years would have been enough and I really don't want to listen to stories of his marriage for the next 10. He knows how I feel about him constantly bringing her up and about the things around the house (BTW, she never lived here--he has moved 3 times since the divorce.) If I were really that concerned, I think I would houseclean. But that's just me.

[guest]

If you hadn't said he loved you and you felt it by both action and word, I would not say the following.

 

Sometimes people when they lose love unexpectedly, never get over it, the lost, even when they have a new one in their life.

 

It's like falling off a horse. Getting back on can be painful filled with fear. The longer the wait, the harder it is.

 

Having a deep trust built on unconditional trust is taking a risk. Most people never take that deep risk more than once in life.

 

I would suggest it's important to continue this, not to let it go, seek couples counseling or some other manner where he and you can confront this past and take the opportunity to make you both closer.

 

Because it's fear that keeps him remembering his past, and forgetting his future and most definitely forsaking his present.

[Iluvsiamese]

I can agree to some point that his problem is fear--fear of what will happen if he ever really confronts his feelings. I feel that this is something that he intends to avoid forever. Forcing him to confront this problem might be more than he can handle. Perhaps he feels that he doesn't want to take the chance of trying to win her back (even though this is what he may really want) because he could lose all the way around. He might not be successful with her and he would definitely lose me. So round, round we go.

 

He seldom speaks of her negatively, it's nearly always happy memories so I feel that he has also placed his former marriage on a pedestal. Over the past two years, he has let enough negative things slip that I wondered what possessed him to marry her. While he hasn't completely forgotten this, he choses not to remember it most of the time. Certainly, I would prefer to dwell on happy memories myself, but I am aware that there needs to be a balance otherwise you get an inaccurate picture and the result is often a bad decision. They did try counselling, but it was not successful--the gap was too wide and I get the impression that there was no compromise on her part.

 

As for getting back on the horse, he was in a new relationship (the 6 year one) within a year of the divorce and with me, the time frame was even shorter. Neither of us intended to get involved, we were just looking for new friends and trying to get our social lives back on track.

 

I opened the dialogue again one night when he mentioned the 6 year woman and thought that I would be upset that he mentioned her. So I corrected him on this. I have no concerns about her. I elaborated on why and so on and then I suggested that he get in touch with his wife. While this would not really make me happy, I feel that it may be necessary for him if he is ever going to let her go. He steadfastly refuses and I feel that this is for the reasons at the beginning of this post. He feels that time will heal my wound and while this may be true, it will never happen unless he stops reopening it. As long as he continues to dwell on his memories of his ex-wife, I will not be able to feel that he is commited to me. I guess that's the crux of the matter.

 

"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons...for you are crunchy, and good, with mustard."

[outdated]

Originally posted by Iluvsiamese

"If I Could Turn Back Time" by Cher and I could just throw up when he plays it.

 

 

No self respecting man lists Cher as their favorite artist, still I digress:

 

I believe a marraige is something that can take a lifetime to get over. I don't think that means that he doesn't love you or want to be with you, I just think that it's normal to wonder about someone that you spent so much time with. Maybe he hasn't gotten over her completely and it sounds like he hasn't but I don't think that it's anything a little counseling couldn't solve.

 

As for the Cher thing- there aren't enough shrinks in the world to solve that problem.

[Iluvsiamese]

Actually, Cher is not his favorite female artist. That would be Shania Twain. I would guess that his favorite artist would depend on the category. He is very fond of Pink Floyd and BB King, among others. For the most part, I approve of his taste in music, however, that particular song with all of it's "If only's" now makes me gag. Prior to all of his obsession with his marriage, I had no opinion on the song.

 

I was thinking about your comment on recovering from marriage and I think that there are alot of factors that would affect this. It took me about a year to get over the loss of my marriage and it wasn't the loss of my ex, it was more that I took the institution of marriage very seriously and I tried my best. As for my spouse, I think that my feelings for him began to die a slow death from the day we married and he began to show his true colors--it took 14 years, but he was finally successful. However, I still have issues that stem from it--trust being one of them and so when I began this thread, I was trying to gauge whether I was being paranoid or whether I had reason to feel apprehensive. I expect that it will take some time to regain my trust in my own judgment because that is what it really is. However, I doubt if it will take 10 years.

 

But don't you think that the time frame that it takes you to get over a marriage depends on how much you hang on to it? I firmly believe that you need a period of mourning, but there needs to be a time when you let it go. It is the same with anger. The more you focus on it, the more it will rule your life. You may have a valid reason, but it will still ruin your chance for happiness if it becomes an obsession. IMO, this has gone beyond "wondering" about his ex-wife. I wonder about former flames and aquaintances from time to time, but they don't rule my thoughts on a daily basis. It's more like once a year at the most.

 

I wonder what it is that has brought this out in him. When we first met, I did not get the feeling that there was alot of residual baggage with him. It wasn't until over a year into the relationship that this began. In all of our discussions, he has never given any indication that this was an issue in his last relationship either. And it would have been if he had done the same to her as she was extremely sensitive about everything. He always felt that he was walking on eggshells (6 years, I can't imagine--the Christmas tree fell over and her response was so extreme that he thought someone had died when she arrived at his door to tell him. ) So what is it about this relationship that has made all of these emotions come out?

[Iluvsiamese]

Now, I don't buy the horoscope thing, hook, line and sinker, but get a grip on our horoscopes for today! If I didn't know better, I'd say that this one reruns about every other day, lol!

 

HIS:

 

You like to keep your mind focused on the present and let the past take care of itself. But today you could find yourself being reminded of times gone by. You could be reminded of an old flame and your relationship with her could be something that you think about today. You might realize something about that past relationship as you compare it to where you are in your life now.

 

MINE:

 

Someone whom you think of as a friend may prove less than trustworthy today. There are indications of deception all around you. Perhaps someone is keeping something from you, or perhaps they're telling out-and-out lies. Don't be too suspicious of anyone, but be sure to check out the facts of any situation before you take anyone's word for anything. It's always best to do that anyway.

 

Hmmmmmm.

[Argentina]

I am a woman in a similar situation to your husband and thought it may help to tell you my experience.

I have been with my husband for 6 years and have two beautiful children. I broke up with my ex about 7 years ago. Due to the fact that we have a lot of mutual friends and his recent return to the same city that I now live in, our paths have crossed and we have had some fairly deep and meaningful conversations about the past, what happened etc. Our break-up 7 years ago was amicable but sad for both of us. We were heading in different directions in our lives. He blames himself for our break-up and takes full responsibility. I have no anger or bad feelings towards him and have told him this. I still love him but in a different way to how I used to. I love my husband also and honestly believe that it is possible to love more than one person. Even though I still love my ex, I would not leave my husband to pursue a relationship with him. I always keep in mind the reasons why we went our separate ways.

I can totally understand how it must really annoy you that he keeps bringing her up in conversations, playing "that" song etc. If he is shouldering all the responsibility of their break-up then he is probably feeling guilty about that and then feeling doubly guilty for feeling like that when he is in a relationship with you. I suspect that is the reason that he keeps bringing her into conversation. By talking about it and admitting things he is relieving some of his guilt. You sound like a very patient and understanding person. I don't think I could tell my husband how I felt about my ex. I would like to, but I fear it would cause him a great deal of insecurity.

I think you certainly need to ask your husband not to keep bringing her into conversation. Maybe if you told him that you can accept that he still has strong feelings for his ex and that it is OK for him to feel that then he will not feel so guilty. He obviously blames himself for things going wrong with his ex and perhaps it may not be a bad idea for him to somehow get that message across to her. if he feels he has to say sorry, then maybe he should do that. Write a letter perhaps? Perhaps he also needs to discuss this with a counsellor, because it sounds like he is using you as his counsellor.

On a positive note though, your husband obviously feels very secure in your love for him otherwise he wouldn't be talking about her with you. In a way it is nice to know that your husband cares deeply about people in his life. I think it is much nicer to have positive thoughts about past relationships than to carry around anger and bitterness. However, the constant talk about her definitely needs to come to an end, so maybe just have a really good heart to heart with him, let him talk it out, reassure him and ask him to stop talking with you after that. If he needs further discussion then I reckon a counsellor is the way to go. Good Luck.

[Iluvsiamese]

Thanks for your thoughts Argentina. I can see similarities but there are some major differences as well. He has contradicted himself many times on his feelings and beliefs. I simply don't believe him anymore. And I have asked him to stop talking about her on more than one occasion.

 

I did think that perhaps he needed to talk things out with someone, though why he thought it would be good to choose me is a mystery. He confirmed that he never spoke to his ex-g/f about his wife in six years of living together--it would have upset her too much. I have let him talk and I have asked him questions. The questions often (not always) made him defensive and the last time I allowed him to talk to me about her, he got very defensive and angry with me and accused me of playing mind games with him. At that point, I decided that I would not be available for him to reminisce. I have been struggling with this whole business and it is often on my mind even though I don't in any way harp on it to him. To me, I have to answer the questions myself. Only I can say if I will settle for what he is offering me. This is what I am trying to come to grips with. It's not easy. Somedays, I want to walk away. Other days I don't want to throw away what we have. And other days, I'm not sure what I want or what is real.

 

Now when he starts talking about her, I just walk away or don't acknowledge that he spoke. I don't feel that he is being honest with me or even honest with himself. I think that he knows perfectly well that if she came back, he would remarry her. But to admit that would mean to lose me and he is not willing to do that unless he has her. I don't feel that he is fully committed to me, in spite of trying to tie me to him in many ways. He has admitted that he is afraid that I will leave, that he knows he has two strikes against him and then in a later conversation told me that he feels that this is entirely my fault and that he bears no responsibility for the way I feel. I find it hard to understand this attitude when it is him who constantly brings her up, keeps her things, praises her very limited talents and has stated that he still loves her and wishes he hadn't lost her. He refuses to call her, see her or contact her in any way. I have asked him to do this as I think that he needs to face her before he can move on. He should either try to win her back or let her go completely. Personally, I think that he is afraid to try but is unwilling to let her go. Thus he is permanently in limbo and so am I--by default.

 

There are too many contradictions here for me to lay this to rest and forget it. He loves her, he doesn't love her. He feels a committed relationship is marriage, but he doesn't feel married unless he gets married in a church. He says he will not stay with someone he has no intention of marrying, but makes long term plans and tries to tie me to him. It's inappropriate to drive by his ex-g/f's house but ok to discuss his honeymoon with his wife. He will not take me on a honeymoon because we have lived together and so it's not necessary, but took his wife on one even though they lived together for a year and a half before they married. She redecorated annually (totally) but I am not allowed to even paint a room. He threw away a piece of jewelry (real gold, not costume) I gave him for his birthday, but keeps his wedding band. He states that he married her because he loved her even though the relationship was problematic and unstable from the beginning and then says that he loves me more than her but will never marry me. It goes on and on--this is only a small sampling.

 

Since I began my interdiction on reminiscing, there are alot of long silences. I simply allow him to talk about other things, but I seldom get into deep conversation with him. There is no point. I am pulling back from the relationship but he doesn't seem to see that. Eventually, I expect that it will deteriorate to the point where I will leave. It's too bad that he is so determined to hold on to the past that he mangles the present and destroys the future. He has woven a fantasy about his marriage and placed it on a pedestal. In his mind he acknowledges that the reality was different, but his heart wants the fantasy. Well, I guess in the end he will get what is most important to him.

 

Sorry for the length. At least you are kind enough to not burden your husband with the fact that you care for your ex. The thing is, I feel that there is a boundary there that my guy has crossed. There is caring for someone and wishing that things had turned out differently and then there is yearning after them to the point where you forget the present. I wish that my marriage had been different. But I had to face the reality that it wasn't and no amount of effort on my part would change it. And so I moved on from it and have not looked back with any sentimental hoo-ha. To do so would be pointless and a waste and so I don't ever think about it. M feels that there is no need for any counselling for him as his feelings are perfectly normal. Guess I am the weirdo here.

[Iluvsiamese]

Just a quick update. I think that he may have put the last nail in the coffin in the last couple of days. I can't think what he could do to correct things now.

 

We have dredged up our dearly beloved wifey and her O/C inclinations yet again. On top of this, he has shown zero support for me while I battle Revenue Canada and Human Resources Development Canada on the issue of whether or not I am still married to my ex (legal papers aren't adequate for this. What else I could supply that would be, I do not know) and trying to get training so that I can get a job where I can support myself and my kids without being dependant on child support or anyone else. In addition, there are perpetual issues with my ex on the subject of the kids. He can't get along with them, can't stick to any visitation schedule (he has them overnight once a week) and has decided that this is my fault and calls regularly to rant about it. For a clearer picture of the sort of antics that he performs, check out my thread under parenting "Am I over-reacting?"

 

I pay more than my share of the living expenses and my guy has never been called on to support me financially in any way. We do not share bank accounts nor are we linked financially. By contrast, he supported his wife while they were married as her job was very low paying. In my line of employment, I make more than double what she did. At this point, he makes more than double what I do.

 

I tried to talk to him last night about where I should go from here wrt training and employment. He basically said I was on my own. That was the last thing that I needed to hear as I had pretty well hit the wall. He is an emotionally sensitive person and a sentimental type when it is his feelings you are talking about. But if it is someone elses, forget it. If you cry, he will simply walk away from you. And he did.

 

I believe that he realizes now that this was the mistake that he made wrt his marriage. He was so angry and hurt when she ended it, he didn't try to resolve the problem, just turned his back on her. He's sorry now, but he is doing the same thing with me and can't see it.

 

Since I am "on my own" on this matter, it now frees me to take positions that will not work for him. Why should I accomodate him? So I will do whatever I have to and the moment I am financially able, I intend to be the one to walk away.

[Iluvsiamese]

Just an update here. Well, things quieted down for a bit. But the discomfort never went away. So now I have something new to cope with--related but new.

 

His family refuses to acknowledge my existance. Totally. And he has been told that they don't want strangers (me, since they have never spoken to me or clapped eyes on me for that matter) in the house. For the last 1 1/2 years, his attitude was that they could kiss his A**. It bothered me, because this is his family and I don't want to be the cause of strife. But he was adamant that if they didn't accept me, then they could do without him as well and he wouldn't change his position until they changed their attitude.

 

Well, something changed a week ago and it wasn't their attitude. After a phone call, he has decided to go home for a visit. I will not be going. I wasn't invited, consulted or even really informed. It was purely accidental that I found out. Moreover, I don't know when this is taking place nor for how long. Now why would this be such a big secret?? I have wondered if he was planning to take his former wife's daughter with him and this is why he doesn't want to talk about it. Yes, his ex lives in the same city as his family and may still be in contact with his siblings.

 

And mid week last week he went for lunch and got completely hammered, did not return to work and drove home late afternoon under the influence. Definitely out of character. Something is bothering him--perhaps his conscience? He has been avoiding talking to me and spending time with me which is pretty obvious as we live together.

 

I am getting pretty fed up with this game and being made to feel like I am the nutcase. I am really pi**ed off and hurt. Last year, he promised to take all of us on this trip and talked about how much fun it would be. Am I being unreasonable? What I want right now is to be able to pick up and walk away. I am tired of trying.

[Guest]

"If I could Turn Back Time"... by Cher...

 

Move on, it won't last.