I tried to save my mom, and I'm failing.

[JanenotPlain]

And you know what- for any other recovering alcoholic who feels like they have ALL the g0$$amn answers to every single person's situation- good for you, man. Seriously, good for you. I'm so happy you were able to recover and now can sit around and preach at everyone else like you are some expert. I've known several addicts in my life- and guess the F%^& what- not a single one of them ever- and I mean EVER got better without the support and a whole lot of work from their family. Yes, it's your journey and you must do it on your own, but what about all the failed stories?? Huh?! What about all the alcoholics who die alone?

I know you know those stories, because I do. And that's probably what's going to happen to my dad.

 

So, thanks but no thanks. This is why I don't like al-anon. I can't stand this self righteous BS.

[S2B]

She IS just as sick as he is. She medicates with alcohol too. Also sugar. Which is driving me nuts since I'm trying to lose weight and over here, counting calories, working really hard in the gym 5-6x week...and she brings home chocolate pie, cupcakes, cookies. I kind of want to scream and throw her chocolate pie in the trash.

 

You are absolutely right about her looking for other people to blame. His job, the hospital, anyone. I guess the rehab program isn't covered under his insurance, he finished the three days of detox and is being discharged with broken bones. My mom wants to bring him here- because she thinks he can't take care of himself. I told her that was the worst possible place for him, we need to find another inpatient rehab that will accept his insurance. Then she says she'll just go back home with him to take care of him. I told her everything will fall apart again if she does that, he'll just go right back to drinking.

 

So she's making the hour drive to pick him up and I'm calling rehabs to see if they take his insurance. But these are 30 day programs and he loses this insurance in two weeks. And like I knew, she's also asking me to help enroll them both into a new insurance plan.

 

Thank you STB for the hug, I do really appreciate it.

 

He's probably lying to her about getting kicked out of the program right now. He probably just wants to come home and drink. That's what he did last time. This is f-ing crazy. I don't know if I can stick around for this circus much longer. I sort of regret getting involved but I couldn't sit back and watch them all drown without trying to help. That didn't feel right either. It's like there is no right answer.

 

I do believe it's the right time for you to exit now.

 

You can see the sick cycle starting up all over again. Mom wants to help him...

 

If it were me and she stepped back in - I'd say "I'm leaving now, don't call me for help or support any further".

 

Your Mom HELPS him stay sick. Heck, it looks like she may have a problem of her own.

 

The insurance? The rehab? Let them figure it out! I've seen people never go to formal detox or rehab - but guess what? When they wanted to get sober they did it - they found the courage to do it!

 

You can't help him! He must help himself!

 

Just exit and wish him well - tell him you love him and hope he gets help.

 

AA meetings are free.

 

Al anon is free for you. It's time you take care of you and Dad takes care of himself. Mom? Mom will likely meddle and screw it all up - because she thinks he can't live without her. I bet she doesn't divorce him either - be ready for that.

 

Let them do what they do - if you force your Mom to do it your way - she's just gonna start lying to YOU to see him and check up on what he's doing or not doing.

 

The family dynamics are crazy! You can't change that - but you can and should walk away before you get so angry you say or do something you regret.

 

 

How old is your Mom? She should be capable of working... Do you think her drinking affected her ability to be productive in earning money? Does she collect disability?

[S2B]

I've seen it often in the drinker who needs to quit.

 

As soon as the family goes dark and quits "helping" - they realize everyone they loved is ignoring them...and suddenly they start doing things to get and stay sober.

 

For a drinker like this - as long as someone is paying ANY attention at all - they think (in their mind) that family still loves them and will rescue them.

 

It doesn't work that way with this disease. No one else can rescue - the drinker MUST get willing to DO that FOR themself.

 

They are insane at this stage - they are in denial and delusional. You can't reason with crazy. When it gets quiet and they get scared that everyone left them - some have a "come to Jesus" realization and start helping themselves.

 

 

I know you're angry - and rightly so... Please be sure and pamper yourself each day in some way.

 

This really boils down to you taking care of yourself at this point. Being involved will make you a crazy person. It's like trying to corral kitty cats - you can't!

 

He will do it when he's sick of himself.

[JanenotPlain]

I do believe it's the right time for you to exit now.

 

You can see the sick cycle starting up all over again. Mom wants to help him...

 

If it were me and she stepped back in - I'd say "I'm leaving now, don't call me for help or support any further".

 

Your Mom HELPS him stay sick. Heck, it looks like she may have a problem of her own.

Yep she has a lot of issues. How can she not, she's been abused her entire life.

 

 

The insurance? The rehab? Let them figure it out! I've seen people never go to formal detox or rehab - but guess what? When they wanted to get sober they did it - they found the courage to do it!

 

Well I've been told by his therapist that he will never have a fighting chance at staying sober if he doesn't get into a 30 day program. My brother detoxed by himself at home, so I know too that people can do it without help. Can a 63 year old man who's been drinking heavy amounts of vodka for a decade and has blocked coronary arteries, chronic high blood pressure and has been a smoker for 45 years, who's then limping around with four broken ribs and a broken shoulder- can that man detox by himself?

 

You can't help him! He must help himself!

 

Just exit and wish him well - tell him you love him and hope he gets help.

 

AA meetings are free.

He's been going to AA meetings almost every day for nine months now. Clearly it takes more than AA to get someone sober.

 

Al anon is free for you. It's time you take care of you and Dad takes care of himself. Mom? Mom will likely meddle and screw it all up - because she thinks he can't live without her. I bet she doesn't divorce him either - be ready for that.

 

Let them do what they do - if you force your Mom to do it your way - she's just gonna start lying to YOU to see him and check up on what he's doing or not doing.

 

The family dynamics are crazy! You can't change that - but you can and should walk away before you get so angry you say or do something you regret.

 

 

How old is your Mom? She should be capable of working... Do you think her drinking affected her ability to be productive in earning money? Does she collect disability?

 

She's 62. She has no education. We live in a smaller location where it's hard enough for people who do have an education to find a job. She is overweight and has osteoarthritis in her hips so she can't stand for hours at a time, which means no customer service job. She was forced into retirement last year and started losing her mind thereafter. She has no self esteem or confidence to go on job interviews. I'd never be able to get her to put together a resume, that's something I'd also need to do. So sure, whenever I get a free moment I'll start writing her resume and cover letters and searching for jobs for her that she probably won't get anyways because no one hires seniors who have terrible computer skills.

 

Again, the contradictory advice about helping my mom get a job but then staying away and not helping them because that's causing the cycle to continue.

 

She collects a small retirement that will is enough to help pay for her mother's nursing home. I can't leave until at least my nana passes away, financially that's the only way any of this will work. That's what we agreed to- and that was BEFORE my dad lost his job. Things are going to be more difficult now.

[JanenotPlain]

 

He will do it when he's sick of himself.

 

Oh sure, or he'll die first.

 

Don't say that's not possible because you know it is. All I'm trying to do at this point is try to keep at least one of my parents alive until I turn 40.

[S2B]

I didn't say help your Mom get a job. I asked if she was at all capable of working.

 

Any chance she could get disability money?

[S2B]

Oh sure, or he'll die first.

 

Don't say that's not possible because you know it is. All I'm trying to do at this point is try to keep at least one of my parents alive until I turn 40.

 

I know it's possible and it makes me sad for you.

 

Been there myself.

[turnera]

I'm sorry you think I'm being self righteous. I recommended Alanon because it's supposed to help you UN-learn the role of enabler, and to get you to a point where you can disengage emotionally and learn new ways of dealing with them that will help all of you. What was wrong the time you did go? Was it the method or the people who were in that room? The people may not still be there.

[JanenotPlain]

Well for me Al-anon is all about the alcoholic. And I'm at a point where I am sick and tired of even spending time talking about the alcoholic or trying to understand alcoholism.

 

In the meetings I see that the codependents become just as reliant upon going to al-anon as the drinker is to going to AA. And that is no way to live my life. My parent's issues have been MY issues for far too long. I just posted in the other thread on this board, and relate perfectly to how Clep said it- that living in the past is draining.

 

So much of al-anon and therapy is absorbed in dealing with the alcoholic and our past. There's always this effort of talking about why we are the way we are, but never enough emphasis on moving forward.

 

I really have been to dozens of therapists. And I cannot explain how angry I get each time one of them interrupts me talking about myself, my current issues, today, in my life, to ask a bunch of questions about my parents and childhood. I am finished talking about my childhood! I get it! I get that they contributed to who I am and these issues now. I can identify every single way they've contributed to my issues now. How to move past that is what I'm interested in.

[Nowty V]

How to move past that is what I'm interested in.

 

I know you've been recommended books and other stuff, seeing your full thread shows I didn't quite grasp where you were at.

 

however, I would suggest the book 'What happy people Know' by Dan Baker Phd.

 

His philosophy is very much moving on with the now and building on the what's positive in what you have already.

 

it can be sourced on the well known auction site.

 

It is a very good book

[S2B]

How to move past it?

 

I can tell you what would be suggested if you were to do the step work within al anon.

 

It's a very simple application - but uncomfortable to DO as an individual and as a cop dependent type of person... You may not like it but it does work.

 

Do everything as CONTRARY ACTION to what you've recently been doing. That is it. It works. It gives YOU a completely DIFFERENTLY result than what is happening now.

 

Hard to do - but worth it :-)

[JanenotPlain]

I had a long talk last night with a friend of mine who's been through al-anon and is divorcing her alcoholic husband. She also recommended some of the books that Clep recommended in the other thread. And she told me that I need to just let them both go, my parents. They're too entrenched in all of it to change. I know that she's right.

 

So to do the opposite of what Ive been doing, is to let my mom go back into her codependent ways. Or Coda, as my friend calls it. "Your mom is a total coda!" she said.

So if my mom wants to move back in with my dad, just let her. I can stop helping her with the little things she asks me for. Which, they are little things, but there are like 15 little things every day it adds up to a big thing.

 

I can distance myself and be here but not really be here, if that makes sense. Not contribute, stop having opinions, prioritize myself and my life first. Whenever I do that she tells me I'm selfish. And that hurts. But I can learn to ignore it.

[turnera]

Not contribute, stop having opinions, prioritize myself and my life first. Whenever I do that she tells me I'm selfish. And that hurts. But I can learn to ignore it.

"Mom, as soon as you start going to therapy and Alanon, I'll start helping you again. Your choice."

[S2B]

I had a long talk last night with a friend of mine who's been through al-anon and is divorcing her alcoholic husband. She also recommended some of the books that Clep recommended in the other thread. And she told me that I need to just let them both go, my parents. They're too entrenched in all of it to change. I know that she's right.

 

So to do the opposite of what Ive been doing, is to let my mom go back into her codependent ways. Or Coda, as my friend calls it. "Your mom is a total coda!" she said.

So if my mom wants to move back in with my dad, just let her. I can stop helping her with the little things she asks me for. Which, they are little things, but there are like 15 little things every day it adds up to a big thing.

 

I can distance myself and be here but not really be here, if that makes sense. Not contribute, stop having opinions, prioritize myself and my life first. Whenever I do that she tells me I'm selfish. And that hurts. But I can learn to ignore it.

 

This would be a great start!

 

And YOU are not selfish - you're considering doing things the right way - instead of backwards! But, you see, your Mom has been doing things backwards for so long she views it as "selfish" - it's not.

 

Doing little things for her means she won't LEARN to handle things herself. She needs to learn! Don't do them for her. Let her calls go to VM and don't respond until the end of each day. If she asks why you don't do these things for her - tell her you're giving HER room to learn and grow and you know she can handle whatever comes her way - and to let you know how she starts figuring out her problems herself!

 

She never grew up. dad never grew up either! It's NOT your job to be THEIR parent!

 

Just because THEY have failed doesn't mean that YOU own that FOR THEM!

 

It is theirs to do... Repeat that 100 times every day :-)

[bathtub-row]

Not trying to sound callous but you're spinning your wheels trying to make your parents do what you want them to do. They are forever and tragically tied to one another -- you just don't want to see or accept this. You're trying to make them stay away from one another, from their twisted relationship, when that's all either of them has, aside from the children.

 

I'm not suggesting that you just turn away from them but you can only help those who want to be helped. If your mother wants to move back in with your dad, then you should stay out of it. She knows what she's getting into. There's nothing new in this relationship that neither of them has already experienced.

[JanenotPlain]

So he went back into a 30 day inpatient rehab. And it sounds like things are going really well- it's only been a few days. This program is actually encouraging my mom (and my brother and I) to visit and be supportive. She's visited him twice. They had a long talk one day and she says she was able to open up to him about things she's kept hidden for many years. She says he finally sounds like he's starting to get it, take responsibility, and understand the depth of his psychological disorder.

 

This program has highly trained staff, not like the place we took him nine months ago.

 

She says she is worried that he feels that if he gets better she will move back in with him, and she says that is never going to happen. Just too much pain, over too many years for her to come back. They are still going forward with the divorce. My friend is a realtor and we had her come to the house yesterday to talk about what work we need to do to sell it.

 

I know this isn't a guaranteed victory or anything. I know he may relapse and that is likely. I know there's still much work to be done for all of us. But it feels like things are getting better. It feels like progress.

 

Even if everything falls apart, I will be able to move forward and have a free conscience knowing that I tried and did everything I could to help.

 

Thanks to you all, for your support and advice.

[turnera]

OMG, that sounds like wonderful progress! I'm happy for all of you.

 

And I would suggest two things. First, make arrangements for your mom to be going to therapy on her own, for at least the next six months to a year. She's going to be suffering majorly for quite a while - guilt, remorse, self doubt, weakness, loneliness. She's going to need a safe professional place to talk it out and keep her on track (and less likely to go back for now). Second, help her stay resolved by informing everyone who needs to know what's going on and letting them both know that you have, so that all those other people can be the support network for both of them to keep up the good work and (hopefully) to go to these people when they need to talk things over or get strength. And, of course, also to be held accountable.

[S2B]

Fantastic news! I'm so happy he's doing better!

 

Your Mom should NOT be visiting him! It's a HUGE, HUGE trigger when loved ones see the patient in rehab - especially when they bring up the crap that they've done.

 

I hope your Mom can stay OUT OF IT!

 

SHE should focus on herself! Let Dad focus on himself - and his path to get better.

 

A few days in and the controlling one has already visited him twice! Your Momis RUINING his chances of getting well!

 

Shame on her!

 

For now - she needs to mind her own business! He should NOT be seeing/talking to her.

[JanenotPlain]

She's visited him because the counselors and staff at rehab told her it was a good idea.

 

I know she is a trigger for him, we all are. But he is doing well. Whatever is happening in his sessions at this place are working. He's been in outpatient rehab for two months and he hated that place because it wasn't staffed well, the staff were not well trained.

 

I see a light at the end of the tunnel, it's been a really long year of dealing with this. And I know we're not there yet. But it feels like things are getting better.

 

You guys have to understand, he literally does not have anyone else in this world to count on for support. His dad died years ago and they had no relationship. He has a sister he hasn't seen in probably 25 years. He also hasn't seen his mother in that long. His twin brother is not reliable and that is his only person, outside of my mom, my brother, and myself.

 

He was heartbroken because we took the dog away, when we moved out. But he never took care of the dog to begin with. And we knew he was in no condition to be responsible for an animal. I'm thinking of getting him another dog when he moves home. He needs some companionship. Maybe a rescue dog.

[JanenotPlain]

OMG, that sounds like wonderful progress! I'm happy for all of you.

 

And I would suggest two things. First, make arrangements for your mom to be going to therapy on her own, for at least the next six months to a year. She's going to be suffering majorly for quite a while - guilt, remorse, self doubt, weakness, loneliness. She's going to need a safe professional place to talk it out and keep her on track (and less likely to go back for now). Second, help her stay resolved by informing everyone who needs to know what's going on and letting them both know that you have, so that all those other people can be the support network for both of them to keep up the good work and (hopefully) to go to these people when they need to talk things over or get strength. And, of course, also to be held accountable.

 

Thank you for this, and the support, and encouragement.

 

There really isn't a support network. My mom has her sister. That's about it.

 

Their mom is in a nursing home. When she's not dealing with my dad, she's dealing with her mom's health. Their dad passed away 20 years ago. She has family but no real friends, and no one else really to count on.

 

I've tried to get her to go to therapy. Believe me, I try. Any tips for convincing someone to go? I thought if I went to sessions with her, to get her comfortable with a therapist, she'd pick up on her own. But she won't go.

[turnera]

Does she do church? That's a decent other option for counseling. Or maybe you could go yourself and ask the IC how to reach your mom about it. I've learned more from my ICs on how to fix/help my husband than he ever would have learned if he went himself.

[JanenotPlain]

She doesn't go to church. We used to go to church and were very involved when I was little. My parents felt like people were gossipy and not supportive when they went through a separation because my dad cheated when I was 11 or 12. I also remember the priests asking me in confession why I'd missed mass on Sundays during that time. "Because my parents are selling our house and we have open house on Sundays" "That's not a good reason to miss church. You should walk here alone" is what the priest said to me.

 

 

So things are difficult again. My dad is almost out of rehab but is being a complete *******. She's visited his therapist there twice, and apparently the therapist wants to talk to my brother and I. He said he's willing to see us on a Saturday since we both work and can't get up to the facility during the week (it's an hour away). I don't know if I want to go or not. I just want to bury my head in the sand and pretend none of this is real. I'm really, really tired of living with this day in and day out. I've been carrying this around for a year. And I give up.

 

Tonight she got upset because, she wants me to move one of her couches into my bedroom, to make room in the living room for a desk so she can have a home office. So there is no room in my bedroom for a couch. There is no room at all in this tiny house for anything else that she keeps wanting to drag over here. I cannot for the life of me understand why she is so attached to material things. It seems like after all she's been through possessions or the tile in our kitchen should be the least thing that matters to her.

 

So she starts crying. These couches- which were purchased in 1995 I think- apparently mean a lot to her. I have no F%&*$ing idea why. They're covered in some burgundy material, don't match with anything, and are hideous. But that's beside the point. We currently have my couch, that I paid for, with my own money, years ago, and I moved it back down here last summer with the rest of my stuff. My couch is the one we sit on in the family room. I've told her, I am more than happy to sell this couch so she can bring in her two red couches. I honestly do not care, it's a damn couch. Then she says she doesn't want to do THAT because she doesn't want those couches to get worn and beat up if we actually sit on them.

 

So I'm like- look mom, I don't really know what to tell you. We don't have room for couches that won't be sat on. This is a tiny little condo, and it's already full of stuff. I'm happy to get rid of my couch, but you don't want us to use those couches to sit on. I ask why they are important to her, and she can't really explain. She'll say it's part of her dream, I suppose, to have this gaudy living room in a nice house. I'm sorry but she lived in that house with my dad for 16 years and her dream of a living room never took shape. I think it's time for her to make peace with those type of dreams. I simply want to have a peaceful evening without crying and anger and tears. That's all I want. Just to live in peace.

 

And I'm going on a date in about an hour. Things like this happen and it seriously affects my mood and I don't want to let that happen. does she realize how selfish it is to keep bringing me down all the time? I actually really like this guy too, and don't want things to go badly. Just needed to vent.

[turnera]

Can a 63 year old man who's been drinking heavy amounts of vodka for a decade and has blocked coronary arteries, chronic high blood pressure and has been a smoker for 45 years, who's then limping around with four broken ribs and a broken shoulder- can that man detox by himself?

No, he cannot.

[S2B]

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JanenotPlain View Post

Can a 63 year old man who's been drinking heavy amounts of vodka for a decade and has blocked coronary arteries, chronic high blood pressure and has been a smoker for 45 years, who's then limping around with four broken ribs and a broken shoulder- can that man detox by himself?

No, he cannot.

 

NO! I could kill him. It needs to be medically supervised. A hospital is recommended.

[Tayla]

The symptoms from this family ailment is so prevalent. How sad that you do not see the part you continue to play. Calling your mom selfish for asking a favor?

 

Your mom is 're acting as are you. It's a typical dynamic instead of stepping back, accessing the request ...and either reasonably negotiating or simply and kindly saying..no.

 

I do encourage therapy for the family as a unit.

 

People who do cling to material items do so as a way to have stable control,because on the inside they genuinely feel helpless and powerless.

I'm sure you can relate to that frame of mind....

 

Stay in therapy..maybe discuss how this family recovery can be handled...you each deserve to work towards better days...one day and one loving effort at a time.