Wish me luck [updated from 'not sure what's going on']

[ShatteredLady]

It's so hard when you've spent a lifetime with someone sharing everything.

 

I'm regularly reminded that I make excuses for my H & I do! Your situation is so extreme. Ugh! I'd be loosing my mind....what little I have left of it after being subjected to almost a year of my H's gaslighting before I learnt the truth!

 

((((Hugs))))

[ShatteredLady]

Has he always had a Knight in oh so shiny armor syndrome? Does he feel 'connected' because they're even more screwed-up than him?

[aileD]

Also I think these girls see my husband as a good catch.

 

He is very kind speaking, has been in top company positions each workplace the affair happened in, makes decent money (in theory as we have a lot of debt), drives a nice truck, fit, living the dream right?

 

Why wouldn't some 21 year old just starting out in life want to land someone like that?

 

He thrives on the attention and let it go too far. I have my own psychological ideas of why he needs that constant adoration.

[ShatteredLady]

Yeh she kept bragging that's he's a CEO!

 

It's still weird! At 21 I wouldn't of been attracted to him. I saw 40 year olds as such old men!! (I'm 40 now...how did that happen?? Hahaha!)

 

I worked in an industry where a LOT of MM were having affairs. I could never understand the young girls who got themselves involved with them....until I learnt how screwed-up the girls were for one reason or another.

 

Affairs are all about ego strokes. Ugh!!!

[ShatteredLady]

Does he truly comprehend the damage that he's doing to his FAMILY? You & his CHILDREN?

 

I know affairs are selfish but this is completely crazy!

 

I'm so sorry.

[Lobe]

How can you say that you are still trying to "figure it out".

 

Again..anger and "are you serving me papers?, you say you want this but you dont serve me papers".

 

So why is he getting all pissed? Do you think he'll regret this? Do you think he wants the divorce?

 

He wants to eat cake, obviously. And you're permitting him to do so, permitting him to manipulate you by saying he is confused. He's not confused - he has both you and his girlfriend exactly where he wants you - in his control.

 

So really, I agree with him - if you're serious about a divorce, why haven't you served him yet? Time to lay it on the line. Serve him. You deserve better. Your kids deserve better.

[ladydesigner]

Yeh she kept bragging that's he's a CEO!

 

It's still weird! At 21 I wouldn't of been attracted to him. I saw 40 year olds as such old men!! (I'm 40 now...how did that happen?? Hahaha!)

 

I worked in an industry where a LOT of MM were having affairs. I could never understand the young girls who got themselves involved with them....until I learnt how screwed-up the girls were for one reason or another.

 

Affairs are all about ego strokes. Ugh!!!

 

Totally when I think about my WH's A with the MOW, she was only 25 at the time and my WH was 42, I just think wow she could have the pickings out there but she chose my 40+ WH with wrinkles embedded into his forehead and a pot belly she probably looked up at while she was doing the deed. I would not have been caught dead with someone like that in my early 20's just eeeewwwww comes to mind!

[ShatteredLady]

I know it's not something that any of the WH's on here want to consider.... ALL the girls I've known who have had affairs with much older men had Dads who cheated on their Mum's.

 

Even the girl we're talking about here admitted on the other forum that she wished her parents had divorced because of her fathers adultery.

 

What breaks my heart as a BS is these girls seem to have very broken relationships with their MOTHERS!

 

I've vowed that if my H ever has another A its divorce regardless of reasons. I can't stand the thought of my sweet baby girl servicing some pot bellied middle aged man in the back of his car before he rushes home to his family!! I want her to have a 'normal' happy life....I still believe that there can be such a thing.

[aileD]

Yes he told me that he dad had an affair on her mom and left for a year or some long period of time, I don't know how old she was but he once said one of the things that concerned him was that she wanted her parents to divorce so badly. He said to her that he sees it as her mom was loving enough to forgive him and it made him worry that if they had issues somewhere down the line she would go to divorce as the first option?

 

She obviously has daddy issues because before my husband she was sleeping with one of her college course teachers. Also 40+ and married with two little kids ---one of them an infant at the time (thank you Facebook).

 

when I broke into his emails awhile ago. I saw correspondence over months that my WS was worried about her contact with this other guy. She always assured him, but of course went right back to sleeping with him during one of the times my husband broke it off with her.

 

I don't know her motivation. I hate her beyond words, but she's a KID. How can I expect her to understand?

[aileD]

Has he always had a Knight in oh so shiny armor syndrome? Does he feel 'connected' because they're even more screwed-up than him?

 

He likes to be needed and feel important in that way. I have my ideas why based on his past and he needs to do the work on himself (he has started the process of counseling) to change that and realize how his past contributed

[ladydesigner]

He likes to be needed and feel important in that way. I have my ideas why based on his past and he needs to do the work on himself (he has started the process of counseling) to change that and realize how his past contributed

 

My WH is bottomless pit of needing to feel important. F*ck them!

[Mr Blunt]

By S2B

 

Change comes from you - when you change things.

 

Since you don't intend to change it then you should expect it to stay the same.

No one can help you when you won't help yourself.

 

 

Yes S2B, she will not help herself. She dodges and will not answer the questions I asked her (reprinted below) because they make her look at reality. They also will help her see that she has to help herself more. However, as S2B has stated she does not intend to change so she will become a door mat

 

 

 

1 Do you want to take that chance that he will get better?

 

2 Do you want to take the chance that if he gets better he will do better?

 

3 Can your emotions and self-esteem keep from being shattered as you hold on to him?

 

4 LOGICALLY, are you and the children better of hoping he will get better; in other words are you better off with him or without him? Do not let emotions give you the answer. Allow your professionals counselors to help you with this.

 

 

5 How long can I hang on while the children are being damaged?

 

6 How long can I hang on before I become a total door mat and not able to be of help for myself and my children?

 

7 What do you think the chances of him recovering his self so that he is strong enough to help you and the children?

 

8 If you believe that he is going to stop his selfishness and get strong enough, how many years do you think that will take?

 

9 Do you have that many years before you crack?

[aileD]

Yes S2B, she will not help herself. She dodges and will not answer the questions I asked her (reprinted below) because they make her look at reality. They also will help her see that she has to help herself more. However, as S2B has stated she does not intend to change so she will become a door mat

 

 

 

1 Do you want to take that chance that he will get better?

 

2 Do you want to take the chance that if he gets better he will do better?

 

3 Can your emotions and self-esteem keep from being shattered as you hold on to him?

 

4 LOGICALLY, are you and the children better of hoping he will get better; in other words are you better off with him or without him? Do not let emotions give you the answer. Allow your professionals counselors to help you with this.

 

 

5 How long can I hang on while the children are being damaged?

 

6 How long can I hang on before I become a total door mat and not able to be of help for myself and my children?

 

7 What do you think the chances of him recovering his self so that he is strong enough to help you and the children?

 

8 If you believe that he is going to stop his selfishness and get strong enough, how many years do you think that will take?

 

9 Do you have that many years before you crack?

 

1. Of course

 

2. He is going to counseling which is something he has always been against in the past and he is seeing that there is something wrong with him...so I'd like to see how that goes. So yes

 

3. I'm trying. I'm gong to counseling which is new for me too. Learning a lot about myself too.

 

4. He has been a good husband and father for all but 2 years of our almost 24 together. So LOGICALLY yes we would be better off with him if he can work toward being Healthy. And yes we talk about this in therapy. Can I be without him? Sure I'm capable. I can do it. Do I throw him away because of this? I don't know yet. Like I said. The situation is the same and his past is...different.. Harder. And it's all coming out now. So I throw away this man who has been through so much because he's messing up right now? Do I teach my kids you give up when your loved ones are sick? Like I said I struggle.

 

5. I don't know the answer to this and I'm doing my best to be open with the kids about the hardships and struggles. They are suffering and will continue to suffer through a divorce too. This is my biggest area where I struggle with what's right which I said before

 

6. I will never not be able to help myself or my kids.

 

7. I have faith in him that he can heal from his childhood trauma. He is actually doing something about it now and realzing how it has affected him. Together or not I support him in this and will be there for him

 

8. I don't know. I think the two differ. Obviously I can wait longer for him to be strong enough to help me and kids but the selfishness (affair) timeframe is shorter

 

9. I'm not the psycho I was made out to be in the OWs post. I'll know my limit when I get there.

 

I'm not trying to not take advice but you guys are also not in my life. I can't possibly write down every detail here of my life that makes me feel this way

 

im not discounting anything anyone says and I thank you all for your advice as harsh as some of it may be

Edited August 3, 2016 by aileD
Spelling

[Miss Clavel]

brass tacks. this "girl" has taken everything she can get from you. everything. it's time to change the locks on the house she mentioned that you will not be able to keep. cuz she says so.

 

get a divorce so you will no longer be financially tied to "them".

 

let.him.go. he's already gone. the rest of what happens to them, down to where they park their car is NONE of your business. at all. they live in the gutter, in the street. they have sex in her car. hellooo???? step over them and move on.

 

see a lawyer. take control of your life and the lives of your children. how much more shame and humiliation do they have to heap on you before you vomit??? omg. i cringe and i don't even know them.

 

p.s. children of a certain age will not be forced to do visitation. ever.

[aileD]

So I talked to him this morning.

 

He broke it off with her last night. He will be spending time by himself.

 

That's all I'll say here.

[Just a Guy]

Hi aile, you came to this forum looking for advice on what you could do in your situation to resolve the big problem you are facing in your married life. You have been given a lot of good advice and people here have analysed your situation for you quite clearly and emphatically. Right through you have avoided the hard choices offered as advice to you and which would have put you in a position of control. It is obvious that you are not going to act on any of the advice offered by the good people here and you have decided that you are going to maitain status quo. In the event I do not understand why you came to this forum and what you hoped to gain from the dicission of your situation here. You might as well have remained invisible and continued to wallow in your misery as that is what seems to satisfy you.

I am sorry for appearing to be harsh or unsympathetic towards you but the fact is that there is a saying which goes like this. 'God helps those who help themselves'. You do not really want to help yourself and take control of your life. So be it but then why come here unless you want the sympathy of others. Sympathy is not going to solve your problems but decisive action will. You have threatened your husband with divorce many times but you have not acted on it. This has given your husband the confidence that you will NEVER divorce him and that he can do whatever he so pleases and you will always be waiting in the wings for him. You have said that you have beem married for almost 24 years and except for the last two years it has been a good marriage. Well you also said that ten years ago he cheated on you and went off with the OW for a while. So at the 14 year mark you had a wreck from which you emerged battered but alive. The fact is that even if your husband recovers from this episode what guarantee do you have he will not stray in the future? Do you want to live your life always dreading what is going to happen at the next bump in your lives? I think that is a sad commentary on your values and your ability to respect yourself. A long marriage is no guarantee that everything is hunky dory. Look at the example of AL Gore and his wife. They separated after forty years of marriage! In their case there was no infidelity involved as far as I know. In your case a divorce is the only way your husband will come to his senses. If you divorce you can remarry him after a suitable period of time if you find he has turned over a new leaf. However, the control will rest with you and you will be in the driver's seat. If any of this makes sense to you then I hope you will take decisive action to improve your lot. If not then I wish you all the very best for your future. Warm wishes.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Just a Guy

[Lobe]

So I talked to him this morning.

 

He broke it off with her last night. He will be spending time by himself.

 

That's all I'll say here.

 

I hope that he does take some time to work on himself, but I don't think his clingy mistress is done clinging - I still think the best thing you can do for your marriage is get a separation agreement in place. Even if you reconcile, knowing that you have an exit strategy will give you the resolve you need to carry on.

[ladydesigner]

I hope that he does take some time to work on himself, but I don't think his clingy mistress is done clinging - I still think the best thing you can do for your marriage is get a separation agreement in place. Even if you reconcile, knowing that you have an exit strategy will give you the resolve you need to carry on.

 

I recommend the above to EVERY BS!!!

[Lobe]

I recommend the above to EVERY BS!!!

 

I do too. One of my BFFs was in counselling with her hubby and it was one of their MC exercises - saved their marriage seeing what they were about to lose. I had my separation agreement notarized and served within days of finding out about WH's affair - I think that was a HUGE reality check for him, and an instrumental part in him realizing that I wasn't going to play pick me. You want her so bad? Go. Buh-bye...

[aileD]

Hi aile, you came to this forum looking for advice on what you could do in your situation to resolve the big problem you are facing in your married life. You have been given a lot of good advice and people here have analysed your situation for you quite clearly and emphatically. Right through you have avoided the hard choices offered as advice to you and which would have put you in a position of control. It is obvious that you are not going to act on any of the advice offered by the good people here and you have decided that you are going to maitain status quo. In the event I do not understand why you came to this forum and what you hoped to gain from the dicission of your situation here. You might as well have remained invisible and continued to wallow in your misery as that is what seems to satisfy you.

 

I came to this forum looking for support and reasons why he would be angry at me for asking to divorce when he was clearly moved out. Not for someone to give me a life plan an expect me to do ABC. All of my life isn't shared here because the OW posted on another forum and I don't want to share everything. But I have taken what everyone says into consideration and I'm sorry I'm not all PAST THIS like most of you are and already moved on and hate your Ex's. I'm not there yet and still have hope for our marriage.

 

So be it but then why come here unless you want the sympathy of others. Sympathy is not going to solve your problems but decisive action will. You have threatened your husband with divorce many times but you have not acted on it. This has given your husband the confidence that you will NEVER divorce him and that he can do whatever he so pleases and you will always be waiting in the wings for him.

 

I'm not here for sympathy or to be held to the "decisive action" people who are strangers to my life tell me is the best thing to do. I came here for support, to read about other's stories, to share mine and my struggles and hopefully find someone or people who would understand. I haven't "threatened him with divorce many times". We have discussed divorce amicably twice and have come to agreements...However we both realize it's not what we want. Yes there is trouble committing, I get that and I see that. and there is parts of that that I don't want to share here. I have only THREATENED him once, recent-- when I wrote this post.

 

You have said that you have beem married for almost 24 years and except for the last two years it has been a good marriage. Well you also said that ten years ago he cheated on you and went off with the OW for a while. So at the 14 year mark you had a wreck from which you emerged battered but alive.

The 2 1/2 years is a cumulative total. it includes the 4-6 months or so from 12 years ago. Doesn't matter but don't want you to think I'm a liar or forgot about that time.

 

The fact is that even if your husband recovers from this episode what guarantee do you have he will not stray in the future? Do you want to live your life always dreading what is going to happen at the next bump in your lives? I think that is a sad commentary on your values and your ability to respect yourself.

.

I don't have a guarantee, just like no one in any marriage has any guarantee.

 

The thing that's different for me this time, is there is effort to heal his past hurts. There has not been any effort in the past to heal from his childhood trauma. It's just been pushed deep down and repressed. We never went to marriage counseling past a few weeks after the first time, we never talked about it, we never dove into the reasons behind why it happened, or why it was allowed to happen. We never did research, talked about things, etc etc etc. I am hesitant to give up my marriage, my LIFE, and hurt my children when we haven't tried everything possible to save the marriage.

 

I was the other day when I told him I wanted a divorce, and I still may get a divorce. I haven't told him I'm not. But he says that he's ended things with her, he admits that it's hard for him, he admits that he is addicted to her, he admits she is like a drug. He separated from her, and is not jumping right back home, which is good I think. He needs to spend time alone.

 

I'm sorry if you see me as weak. I'm trying to navigate things best I can for my relationship. I appreciate the support and advice.

[aileD]

yes a separation agreement is a good idea. I can look into that.

 

Also I haven't just put my head into the sand. I know my options, I have a lawyer friend and we have talked about things and struggles and cost and what'd it really be like, etc etc etc.

 

I've done my research, I'm a strong person. I just believe in marriage. I believe in not giving up when the reasons are deeper than just whats on the surface. I've loved this man since I was 17 and even before then we knew each other. I have seen all the crap he's gone thru in his life. The Trauma I talk of is the worst of just like FIVE different crappy things that can happen to someone...Like an alcoholic mother, foster care, and being abandoned by your father for a new family. I do sympathise with him, he has been REALLY good at pushing all that stuff down, becoming successful, driven, etc. He is clearly having a breakdown and I don't feel right just saying "well eff it, you're too effed up for me". I'll try to help him as best I can, and it seems like he's doing the work and getting into the healing so why would I write him off now? I would never forgive myself. What if he can get past this, heal HIMSELF and we are able to restore our relationship? When there is a chance of that I will fight for my relationship, it's just how I am.... if he can't push thru this, then there is no choice and I understand that.

Edited August 3, 2016 by aileD
spelling and added stuff

[Lobe]

I'm sorry if you see me as weak. I'm trying to navigate things best I can for my relationship. I appreciate the support and advice.

 

My WH and I are reconciled. I understand why you want to reconcile. Reconciliation is not for the weak. I don't think you're weak but I do think you need to reframe the way you think you are "helping" your husband. What I'm curious about is if you understand what "enabling" is and what it means to bring the bottom up?

 

Most people don't start to turn themselves around until they have hit their rock bottom. And rock bottom tends to be an endlessly deep well when someone keeps filling the hole back up, essentially not giving them the opportunity to help themselves. In many ways, you are incapacitating your husband with your unconditional support, which is NOT the same as unconditional love. You can absolutely love someone and not support what they are doing in any way, shape, or form. That is how you bring the bottom up.

 

As long as you are a crutch for your husband, he will continue taking advantage. If you want to make sure that he is 100% committed to healing himself, you need to put some conditions on the support you are willing to give him. If he doesn't experience the natural consequence of making bad life choices, how can you expect him to learn from them? This is twice now that he has stepped out on you. If you want to give him one more try, you need to put up some healthy boundaries for yourself and give him some logical consequences if he does not follow through with his word. Some examples of conditions you might consider before attempting reconciliation are as follows:

 

1) He does not get to come home until he has been in NC from his strumpet for a minimum of 6 months; the clock resets each time he lapses.

 

2) He remains in counselling for his issues, and attends marriage and family counselling with you and the kids.

 

3) He signs a separation agreement of some sort ensuring that you receive an equitable settlement and that your children are taken care of.

 

Good luck.

[aileD]

My WH and I are reconciled. I understand why you want to reconcile. Reconciliation is not for the weak. I don't think you're weak but I do think you need to reframe the way you think you are "helping" your husband. What I'm curious about is if you understand what "enabling" is and what it means to bring the bottom up?

 

Most people don't start to turn themselves around until they have hit their rock bottom. And rock bottom tends to be an endlessly deep well when someone keeps filling the hole back up, essentially not giving them the opportunity to help themselves. In many ways, you are incapacitating your husband with your unconditional support, which is NOT the same as unconditional love. You can absolutely love someone and not support what they are doing in any way, shape, or form. That is how you bring the bottom up.

 

As long as you are a crutch for your husband, he will continue taking advantage. If you want to make sure that he is 100% committed to healing himself, you need to put some conditions on the support you are willing to give him. If he doesn't experience the natural consequence of making bad life choices, how can you expect him to learn from them? This is twice now that he has stepped out on you. If you want to give him one more try, you need to put up some healthy boundaries for yourself and give him some logical consequences if he does not follow through with his word. Some examples of conditions you might consider before attempting reconciliation are as follows:

 

1) He does not get to come home until he has been in NC from his strumpet for a minimum of 6 months; the clock resets each time he lapses.

 

2) He remains in counselling for his issues, and attends marriage and family counselling with you and the kids.

 

3) He signs a separation agreement of some sort ensuring that you receive an equitable settlement and that your children are taken care of.

 

Good luck.

 

this is thought provoking. I understand what you mean. I felt by not giving him any help with money, food, gas, sympathy, etc ....that was not enabling. I see there's more I do to enable.

 

yes there will be boundaries..there has to be. NC is a huge one.

[Lobe]

NC is a huge one.

 

kind of yeah

 

He knows you're waiting for him. That in and of itself is permission for him to take his sweet time sorting himself out, while you sit there holding down the fort indefinitely. Maybe the "bottom" you need to put under him to hit is a time limit - get the separation agreement in front of him and tell him he has a year to demonstrate he's serious about reconciling (NC, counselling, etc.) before you file for divorce. Reality checks are a b*tch but oh so necessary.

[merrmeade]

kind of yeah

 

He knows you're waiting for him. That in and of itself is permission for him to take his sweet time sorting himself out, while you sit there holding down the fort indefinitely. Maybe the "bottom" you need to put under him to hit is a time limit - get the separation agreement in front of him and tell him he has a year to demonstrate he's serious about reconciling (NC, counselling, etc.) before you file for divorce. Reality checks are a b*tch but oh so necessary.

Yeah. Kind of!

 

In fact, until today I did not realize I'd done something similar which, though far from ideal, did pave the way for the NC letter and completely ended things with OW. It's odd this topic came up today because it just reappeared yesterday. I pulled down a suitcase and Not Just Friends came tumbling out with some folded papers inside. They were letters to my husband, hobbled together after 2 weeks on LS 4 years ago. I just now read them and feel better about how "weak" I remember being at the time as well. LS helped a lot. Also, I think writing it worked better than saying it. I retyped it below.

 

It's like the separation agreement but at the time I had no idea it had a name. I didn't give a time frame, but he wasn't in contact at that point. He also hadn't sent the NC letter yet, and I think this paved the way for it. :

June 20, 2012

I have put in writing what can and cannot happen for me. It is not rocket science:

• Obviously if I still have doubts and do not trust you, it's a problem that can be overcome if there's no basis in reality for the doubt or mistrust.
  
• If I have reason for doubt, it's both of our problems, and we may not be able to recover.

• If you keep any secrets from me, we cannot have trust.
  
  
• If I find out that you lied about the past or diluted the truth about the affair, I will have difficulty trusting you about other things as well. We simply cannot continue if there is anything still hidden. We cannot have openness anywhere if even one area is kept locked.
  
  
• If - after this - I find out you are still withholding information about contact with her and you cannot irrefutably prove otherwise, it will probably be the end for us. I will have to tell my brother and our children.
  
  

At this moment, it is all and only about being truthful, not about what you actually did (they are and they aren't the same thing).

Do you have more that you did not tell me ...

- about the phone calls?

- about the affair with (OW)?

- about the nature of the physical contact?

- about other affairs in the past?

A few weeks after this, OW did try to contact him surreptitiously through a neighbor, pretending it was necessary for a business matter. I flipped and demanded he write the NC letter. It all clearly 'worked.' I have no doubt whatsoever he will ever break NC with her. In fact, he threatened to boycott his own son's wedding this year if she was going to be there.

 

But it is not NEARLY as final and unconditional as it should have been, and, in fact, he did not tell me everything about "other affairs in the past." Then, when he did, I forgot these consequences I'd promised. Going to have to mull this over a bit ...

 

Do what Lobe suggests.

Edited August 3, 2016 by merrmeade