Wish me luck [updated from 'not sure what's going on']

[merrmeade]

I relate to this from the MM perspective mermeade. Long drives with barely a word spoken - yep, we've had plenty of those and yes the three month mark is quite a tough time. It was for us too. A year on things are much better, but there are still the odd brief silences.

 

If he's anything like me, he was probably mulling the whole thing over in constant loops, feeling bad, feeling sorry for himself, feeling embarrassed, etc. Yes part of it would likely have been missing the OW and the fun, care free nature of what they had, but that would only be one aspect of that silence. He would also be berating himself for what he did to you, how he could let out happen, worrying about if life could ever be the same again. A lot of why me, why me cr*p - it was that for me anyway.

 

Although the extent of aileD's H's honesty is quite shocking and I could never be that frank with my wife, SL is right. It does at least enable intimacy and leaves aileD in no doubt that she is getting the truth and that he isn't putting barriers up. If it works for them, great. For the rest of us, those awkward silences, the mentioning of 'oh, it's just a bad day at work', etc..... Well we will just have to deal with them as best we can and know that things will eventually get better. In SL's case, it seems like this is a real problem and I really hope you find ways of getting him to open up. Often it's just a case of providing a comfortable non threatening environment where he feels he won't be attacked if he says the wrong thing. Us MM's are often cowards - if we think that something we say will cause everything to kick off, we stay silent if we think we will get an easier ride. While we don't deserve to be given an easy ride, it does help to make us feel comfortable in opening up more.

You know? This sounds just like my WH - especially the bold - so maybe you're right. I thank you for this, Jenkins. My husband would probably say, "Well, of course, that's it. What did you think?" - as if I just forgot to read his mind that time.

[turnera]

I imagine - if I could speak for you, aileD - that before the affair, the two of them WERE great friends, shared everything, all thoughts and feelings, and they just gradually drifted away from that. She was his best friend - until she wasn't because some OTHER woman became his best friend. And now that BF#2 is gone, he simply shifted back to what's easiest for him - letting aileD play that role again. I don't think that's malevolence. I think it's a fairly typical male response to a woman filling all his needs (including replacing his mother) and just, well, expecting it.

 

aileD had been getting the companionship - one of women's typical highest Emotional Needs - all along and then had it pulled from her. Now that she's got it back, however the circumstances, she's so grateful she's willing to look past everything else just to have it.

 

Which is fine. If she can do it.

 

AS LONG AS it doesn't create a seed in her H's brain that this is just how he gets to have it now - leave, come back, leave, come back, whenever he needs more...because she'll just always be there.

 

I just hope he's a better man than that.

Edited August 28, 2016 by turnera

[Mr. Lucky]

I just hope he's a better man than that.

 

I'll avoid any cheap shots and just quote Santayana - “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[ladydesigner]

Wow. This was an eye-opener for me to what was really probably going on with my WH when we were about 3 months post d-day. We packed up and left the state and on the 3-day drive to our destination he said hardly a word. On our arrival, hardly a word.

 

I think now that he was grieving the loss of her constant companionship b/c they'd talked, texted or emailed ALL DAY LONG EVERY DAY (the EA). I would constantly ask why he wasn't talking to me. He couldn't or wouldn't just up and replace the routine of her constant presence overnight - I think now - but he also would not tell me ANY of his thoughts or feelings. I was completely shut out. It was ... silence.

 

If that's what it was - then I would have preferred Aile's form of torture: the truth.

 

I wonder how many BS's would be willing to listen to their WS suffering over their AP... idk I don't have any sympathy for it. It's like a self-inflicted wound to me.

 

I get that you want to know, but what else is there to know... WS fell in love with someone else and now they are grieving them. I wouldn't want to hear about it, but I guess that's what makes each of these experiences individual. It works for some and may not for others.

Edited August 28, 2016 by ladydesigner

[elaine567]

aileD had been getting the companionship - one of women's typical highest Emotional Needs - all along and then had it pulled from her. Now that she's got it back, however the circumstances, she's so grateful she's willing to look past everything else just to have it.

 

Which is fine. If she can do it.

 

AS LONG AS it doesn't create a seed in her H's brain that this is just how he gets to have it now - leave, come back, leave, come back, whenever he needs more...because she'll just always be there.

 

...with the hanky and a sympathetic ear to listen to all his woes.

Sounds just about perfect.

[Lobe]

I wonder how many BS's would be willing to listen to their WS suffering over their AP... idk I don't have any sympathy for it. It's like a self-inflicted wound to me.

 

I get that you want to know, but what else is there to know... WS fell in love with someone else and now they are grieving them. I wouldn't want to hear about it, but I guess that's what makes each of these experiences individual. It works for some and may not for others.

 

I didn't want to hear it but I also didn't want him lying to me about where his head was at. Empathy doesn't imply condoning.

[Cymbeline]

Lobe and Aille, I agree that it is honest and empathic, but the experience is searingly painful. I admire the strength of a BS who can bear it. I tried, but listening felt like putting my head against an electric fence. I was just unable to do it without reacting like something from 'The Exorcist'.

[ShatteredLady]

The silence strangles you. Reaches down your throat. Breaks your insides. Crushes your heart. Maybe that's the constant pain that makes it so hard to breathe. The panic, my heart beating against the fist of silence. ALL the silence. Even the sweet smiles are accompanied by the silence.

 

Occasionally I muster the courage to talk, really talk & he listens...in silence.

 

Maybe one day I'll see a lawyer & just tell him that I can't take the deafening silence anymore. It's slowly killing me.

 

Am I the only person who feels like they're going to physically vomit up their heart because it can't burst out of their chest?

[Lobe]

Yup, the deafening silence kills me.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I didn't want to hear it but I also didn't want him lying to me about where his head was at. Empathy doesn't imply condoning.

 

I watched my H go through heartbreak. I saw their texts and while I didn't hear the conversations I could see that it was bad. It was odd for me and I did not/still don't understand why H was so insistent on staying when he clearly had all these feelings for another and her for him. Since I also had my own A, I was very familiar with the reasons men stay and I did not enjoy being the consolation prize out of guilt, our kids, money, society, vows, possessions, etc. I listened to him but what could I say. He wanted his A to end. I saw him cry.

 

On my side, he later watched me die. He wanted to hear my thoughts and feelings on it all. I cried nightly for months. It was bad. H was there.

odd.

[aileD]

It's not like he's saying anything all the time.

 

I asked him yesterday how he was doing---because I DO want to know...., he said he was actually feing really good and doing well, he felt like everything ended the way it should so he's at peace With it and looking forward

 

I would rather know. Because you can't fix something or deal with something if you don't know about it.

 

We are actually doing well. He is putting an effort forth and I can see that. We went away last night to work on cabin, talked some more about getting on with life but not ever stopping working on or relationship. And that we are going to change marriage counselors and start fresh there..

 

All my "spy tactics" haven't found any evidence he's spoken to her. I actually think she's already got someone else lined up by some things I saw. She's talking nonstop to someone on a texting app and I know it's not my husband.....she did use that to talk to the previous married man and she once slept with him one of the times WS dumped her in the past. Also one of negatives from WS about her is that she's been with a lot of guys .like a lot. All while convincing her parents she was a Virgin. So I'm sure she won't have any trouble finding someone else .

 

I heard what everyone said....I'm just doing what I think is right. We are trying to work together now instead of against each other so instead of being snitch to him and giving him a list of things to change and things to prove and things to do.....instead we are just talking about our needs and wants and seeing how we can fulfill them.

 

The other day I told him I liked when we made eye contact and we don't really do that a lot and we should do it more. Friday he was at his aunts with the kids and I came by later, he came up and hugged me and looked in my eyes.....a lot... Lol.

 

So the effort is there

 

 

I've always said this to people that have been in my situation:

 

Some people can get over their partner having an affair. And some people can't. It doesn't really mean either person is better or worse....it just means that for some people....they just can't do it, even if they want to and try to...and that's ok if you're that person. And it's ok if you can.

[jenkins95]

Great update (((aileD)))

 

I think you have a lot of people rooting for you on here - your LS family!

 

Keep on going, you are doing really well! Inspirational

 

Keep the positive posts coming!

 

It's not like he's saying anything all the time.

 

I asked him yesterday how he was doing---because I DO want to know...., he said he was actually feing really good and doing well, he felt like everything ended the way it should so he's at peace With it and looking forward

 

I would rather know. Because you can't fix something or deal with something if you don't know about it.

 

We are actually doing well. He is putting an effort forth and I can see that. We went away last night to work on cabin, talked some more about getting on with life but not ever stopping working on or relationship. And that we are going to change marriage counselors and start fresh there..

 

All my "spy tactics" haven't found any evidence he's spoken to her. I actually think she's already got someone else lined up by some things I saw. She's talking nonstop to someone on a texting app and I know it's not my husband.....she did use that to talk to the previous married man and she once slept with him one of the times WS dumped her in the past. Also one of negatives from WS about her is that she's been with a lot of guys .like a lot. All while convincing her parents she was a Virgin. So I'm sure she won't have any trouble finding someone else .

 

I heard what everyone said....I'm just doing what I think is right. We are trying to work together now instead of against each other so instead of being snitch to him and giving him a list of things to change and things to prove and things to do.....instead we are just talking about our needs and wants and seeing how we can fulfill them.

 

The other day I told him I liked when we made eye contact and we don't really do that a lot and we should do it more. Friday he was at his aunts with the kids and I came by later, he came up and hugged me and looked in my eyes.....a lot... Lol.

 

So the effort is there

 

 

I've always said this to people that have been in my situation:

 

Some people can get over their partner having an affair. And some people can't. It doesn't really mean either person is better or worse....it just means that for some people....they just can't do it, even if they want to and try to...and that's ok if you're that person. And it's ok if you can.

[merrmeade]

The silence strangles you. Reaches down your throat. Breaks your insides. Crushes your heart. Maybe that's the constant pain that makes it so hard to breathe. The panic, my heart beating against the fist of silence. ALL the silence. Even the sweet smiles are accompanied by the silence.

 

Occasionally I muster the courage to talk, really talk & he listens...in silence.

 

Maybe one day I'll see a lawyer & just tell him that I can't take the deafening silence anymore. It's slowly killing me.

 

Am I the only person who feels like they're going to physically vomit up their heart because it can't burst out of their chest?

No, Love, you're not the only one. And there's never a real end to the pain because no one - absolutely no one - in your real life understands and may actually even dump blame on you. But thank God we've got each other listening and talking.

 

There's no winning whatever you do or don't do. There's only loss from beginning to end.

 

Sorry. Having a bad day of it myself.

[Lobe]

(((((((((((Group)))))))))))

 

Upwards, onwards, outwards.

[Midwestmissy]

I would have been physically ill had my wh mourned the loss of his mow. I mean I already was, but that would have been torture. I'm glad he wasn't in love with her - I'd always wonder if he was pining for her. What he did do however also sucked. He ended it (I was still in the dark) then kept her as his employee for 10 more months because he was afraid of a lawsuit. He lied about their relationship to me of course, but she continued to proposition him via emails - not discreet. Her husband didn't think so either.

 

The conflict avoidance just continued. Had he accepted the potential consequences to his actions, he would not have stalled the healing. She was this mousy little thing waiting in the corner, sometimes driving hours to attend family functions of ours (invited by others who didn't know) - it was bizarre. She didn't handle herself with very much self respect - which seemed to mesh with my conflict avoidant ostrich husband - so to think he had fallen hard for her would have crippled me. Once he confessed, she ended up under the bus like so many other ow.

 

To the op - verify everything. Don't rush this because you want it so badly. Respect yourself and hold him accountable. Sometimes our hope gets in the way initially and we have a hard time seeing anything else.

 

I'm stunned by the living in the car thing. Did she not have friends with couches? Didn't he? It seems rock bottom to me, how on earth could that have been enjoyable?

[Whoknew30]

It's not like he's saying anything all the time.

 

I asked him yesterday how he was doing---because I DO want to know...., he said he was actually feing really good and doing well, he felt like everything ended the way it should so he's at peace With it and looking forward

 

I would rather know. Because you can't fix something or deal with something if you don't know about it.

 

We are actually doing well. He is putting an effort forth and I can see that. We went away last night to work on cabin, talked some more about getting on with life but not ever stopping working on or relationship. And that we are going to change marriage counselors and start fresh there..

 

All my "spy tactics" haven't found any evidence he's spoken to her. I actually think she's already got someone else lined up by some things I saw. She's talking nonstop to someone on a texting app and I know it's not my husband.....she did use that to talk to the previous married man and she once slept with him one of the times WS dumped her in the past. Also one of negatives from WS about her is that she's been with a lot of guys .like a lot. All while convincing her parents she was a Virgin. So I'm sure she won't have any trouble finding someone else .

 

I heard what everyone said....I'm just doing what I think is right. We are trying to work together now instead of against each other so instead of being snitch to him and giving him a list of things to change and things to prove and things to do.....instead we are just talking about our needs and wants and seeing how we can fulfill them.

 

The other day I told him I liked when we made eye contact and we don't really do that a lot and we should do it more. Friday he was at his aunts with the kids and I came by later, he came up and hugged me and looked in my eyes.....a lot... Lol.

 

So the effort is there

 

 

I've always said this to people that have been in my situation:

 

Some people can get over their partner having an affair. And some people can't. It doesn't really mean either person is better or worse....it just means that for some people....they just can't do it, even if they want to and try to...and that's ok if you're that person. And it's ok if you can.

 

There's very much a difference between a BS getting over an A & a BS just waiting for their WS everytime they leave you & the kid....HUGE difference.

 

You're talking about whom the OW is talking to on a app...may I ask about the last OW before her & his future OW? You're worried about OW like its her, it's not her, it's your h & after this how are you gong to babysit him around other women?

 

I've been with my H since 15 married him as a teen & yes we went through things but I'd never in a million years allow what you've allowed your H to do to not only yourself but the kids. So yes people have been in your situation from your age...like I said your life your problem but don't fool yourself into believing your the only one that's been there. Others have been there & not have put up with it. No it's not ok for a person to loose themselves to the point that they allow their spouse to carry their self esteem & or treat their kids like crap by not seeing them & the BS putting their own feelings & self before what's best for their kids (bc a BS has been together since teens)...that's never ok.

[NewLeaf512]

The silence strangles you. Reaches down your throat. Breaks your insides. Crushes your heart. Maybe that's the constant pain that makes it so hard to breathe. The panic, my heart beating against the fist of silence. ALL the silence. Even the sweet smiles are accompanied by the silence.

 

Occasionally I muster the courage to talk, really talk & he listens...in silence.

 

Maybe one day I'll see a lawyer & just tell him that I can't take the deafening silence anymore. It's slowly killing me.

 

Am I the only person who feels like they're going to physically vomit up their heart because it can't burst out of their chest?

 

You are too good to suffer

[wmacbride]

Op,

it's great that you feel like you two are starting to find your way back to one another. I hope that you make a go of it.

 

My problem with what you are saying, and correct me if I am wrong, is that this is not his first A.

 

 

( from your first post)

"We went through him being unfaithful once about 10 years ago, he ended up leaving me for a younger woman, only to suddenly come to his senses about four months in."

 

I hope he is able to figure out why he cheated, and that he doesn't fall into the trap of blaming his actions on you. it's one thing to have issues in his marriage that he feels need to be addressed, it's another thing to blame someone else for his choices. If he blames you, your marriage, his ow or anyone else for his actions, then there is a high chance he will repeat them.

[stillafool]

It's sad that people say "I want WS back because we have kids" when in fact the kids will grow up and move on. Why aren't they just honest that they want the WS back out of desperation of being alone. Or, now I'm in competition with this OW/OM and don't want them to have what was once mine. I guess it's easier to blame it on the kids rather than admit that it's really you that are too weak to let a cheating spouse go. For OP to think her husband is automatically going to stop dreaming of 20 year olds bodies and faces is maddening.

Edited August 29, 2016 by stillafool

[turnera]

That's been exactly my point. Nowhere is he showing he wants to be with her because he loves her; it's because he needs her. At least, that's what it looks like from out here.

 

Now, I know OP really wants her husband, so I'm not going to criticize her choices any more; I just want her to be thinking about her line in the sand. Hopefully, there is SOME line in the sand after which she realizes she deserves more.

 

Honestly, though, I really hope he has learned his lesson and never cheats on her again. And I really hope therapy is doing him some good to fix this thing in him.

[wmacbride]

It's sad that people say "I want WS back because we have kids" when in fact the kids will grow up and move on. Why aren't they just honest that they want the WS back out of desperation of being alone. Or, now I'm in competition with this OW/OM and don't want them to have what was once mine. I guess it's easier to blame it on the kids rather than admit that it's really you that are too weak to let a cheating spouse go. For OP to think her husband is automatically going to stop dreaming of 20 year olds bodies and faces is maddening.

 

It depends on the situation.

 

Some ws and bs are able to reconcile, but it takes a long time. In my situation, I could have been alone and be okay with it. Hell, I'm alone a lot of the time anyway, through no fault of my ws. When he's gone, I miss him so much, but I get along just fine.

 

It was the fact that I stayed because I wanted to and not because I needed to that allowed us to reconcile.

[aileD]

I'm stunned by the living in the car thing. Did she not have friends with couches? Didn't he? It seems rock bottom to me, how on earth could that have been enjoyable?

. No one would let her stay if she was with him and vice versa. Plus none of our friends and family knew for the most part. Her parents disowned her and all her friends are JW and she got kicked out of that so technically no one is supposed to talk to her. Don't know, don't care, it's no comfortable sleeping in a car so good. I'm glad it wasn't a pleasant nights sleep. I'm glad there was humidity and 90 degree weather and mosquitoes and I'm glad I took the Camino grill and chairs and table and lantern and all the comforts out of the truck.

 

To all the other replies..... Every situation is different is all I can say. I don't know if me and hubby will make it but right now we are being honest with each other about how we feel and are working on things. It s not all rainbows and butterflies but he's not bailing--we both know it will be a long process.

 

Honesty is important. It's great that a lot of you BS won't "put up with" any AP talk or sh*t from your WS, and if that works for you. Hooray. But don't you wonder if he's holding anything back because he is afraid of setting you off?

 

Do you want him to hold things back? Isn't that just causing more secrets in the marriage?...I think we are of the mindset to just get it all on the table so we can sort through it and deal with each piece together.

Edited August 29, 2016 by aileD

[Whoknew30]

. No one would let her stay if she was with him and vice versa. Plus none of our friends and family knew for the most part. Her parents disowned her and all her friends are JW and she got kicked out of that so technically no one is supposed to talk to her. Don't know, don't care, it's no comfortable sleeping in a car so good. I'm glad it wasn't a pleasant nights sleep. I'm glad there was humidity and 90 degree weather and mosquitoes and I'm glad I took the Camino grill and chairs and table and lantern and all the comforts out of the truck.

 

To all the other replies..... Every situation is different is all I can say. I don't know if me and hubby will make it but right now we are being honest with each other about how we feel and are working on things. It s not all rainbows and butterflies but he's not bailing--we both know it will be a long process.

 

Honesty is important. It's great that a lot of you BS won't "put up with" any AP talk or sh*t from your WS, and if that works for you. Hooray. But don't you wonder if he's holding anything back because he is afraid of setting you off?

 

Do you want him to hold things back? Isn't that just causing more secrets in the marriage?...I think we are of the mindset to just get it all on the table so we can sort through it and deal with each piece together.

 

No, never afraid that he wasn't honest bc I'd go off. There's differences between listening to someone's honesty & being their emotional punching bag. If a man leaves his wife more than once for another woman & the wife continues to listen to woe is me talk, it's gone beyond getting everything out on the table, he's just handing over his emotional baggage. If someone really has seen the error of their ways, they change within, by themselves. You're not helping your husband to change, you're helping to enable him to treat you & your kids like crap & he's twisted you up so emotionally that you see him being honest as positive...it's like a drug addict being honest about how they stole all your stuff & pawned it for drugs but it's ok bc I'm being "honest" about it.

 

I feel for you bc I've been with my H since young too but from what I can read instead of you brining him up, you've allowed him to bring you down time & time again...in every way. If that's how you want to live, fine but you need to be honest to yourself. Not for him, not for your kids but just you. Really read back to yourself the posts you've wrote...like its someone else writing & see how you feel. You're too in to realize that you sound like emotional abused woman...which you could be bc look at everything he's done.

 

My mom married my dad at 15 & he put her through the ringer with OW but never once did he do it to this degree nor did he stick my siblings to the side for it & even she had it one day. Until you cut him off emotional for awhile & see he's the one actually changing bc HE wants to...you'll be dealing with this again & again...& the next time, your kids will be gone & you'll be alone. I'm watching a woman go through this now. Her H left her twice before & she sounded just like you, as soon as the last kid was out, he left her the finale time & now isn't coming back. I feel for her but she never demanded respect & now after 25 years she's alone & she regrets not leaving him the two times he did it before & now bc it was so many years of dealing with her H, she has no clue on how to be in a stable relationship & or how to date...it's extremely sad to watch but when people tried to give her advice, she "knew everything" & all the relationships she damaged with other around her bc people couldn't stand to be around him, aren't that easy to get back...no one wants any part of it...so she's really alone. Literally people walk away from her as soon as they see her face bc they don't want to hear about again.

 

Honestly good luck...love doesn't make someone change...they can only do that bc they want to.

[aileD]

Small update -

 

Background first- she worked with him and got the job because his boss is friends with her mother so boss has known XOW for awhile. Boss is supportive of us working on marriage. Ow hasn't worked at company anymore for awhile.

 

 

 

He went back to work after being off the weekend. Got a text telling me that XOW saw his boss yesterday to give her a few of H's things -some vitamins and a med kit, and that the boss went to dinner with XOW and helped her and talked to her. H said apparently XOW is in a better spot mentally.

 

I know that is a relief for him and for me too. Yes info realize that it is up to H to maintain NC....but in past Ow has been extremely persistent and stalkerish in pursuing contact so its a breath of fresh air to see her moving on.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know that is a relief for him and for me too. Yes info realize that it is up to H to maintain NC....but in past Ow has been extremely persistent and stalkerish in pursuing contact so its a breath of fresh air to see her moving on.

 

Hope you get what you want and it works for you on your terms.

 

That's the only standard you have to worry about ...

 

Mr. Lucky