Some men turned off by women who don't need saving?

[LookAtThisPOst]

Was talking to a female friend of mine, single mother, in her mid 40s...she told me a lot of men she attempts to date loose interest in her because...or so she claims as I think this is just speculation on her part...that men are turned off by the fact that she doesn't need "saving".

 

That, they are turned off that she doesn't need any kind of support from them as most men SHE's encountered prefer some kind of damsel in distress.

 

Of course, I'm wondering if this just another version of, "Men are intimidated by an independent woman.", but I am not aware of many men that are like this...anyone think men are more attracted to women that need "saving" or some kind of financial support?

[Yogagirl565]

Yes! I've date several men who thought they could save me and when they realized I am very independent and don't need to be rescued things fizzled out. Everyone is different, the guy I'm with now is attracted to an independent woman and things couldn't be better between us.

[normal person]

Of course, I'm wondering if this just another version of, "Men are intimidated by an independent woman.", but I am not aware of many men that are like this...anyone think men are more attracted to women that need "saving" or some kind of financial support?

 

The only men who prefer women not be independent are expendable, insecure men who whose primary way of keeping a women is to make her dependent on him. It's pathetic, really. No one worth their salt wants another mouth to feed out of their own pocket, or someone so downtrodden they'll be more of a burden than an asset or partner.

Edited August 6, 2016 by normal person

[Mrin]

I think normal and Yoga have said some really good stuff.

 

As a divorced guy in his 40's I know one of the biggest challenges I faced was "breaking the mold". Honestly, when I started dating the only thing I new how to do was Husband. That meant providing for the family and my (now) ex-wife. I measured my value by my ability to provide or contribute. I remember one of the first women I dated was a very independent woman who didn't need me to provide or contribute anything. Well, she did but it wasn't monetary or fixing things or advising her ("saving" type stuff).

 

I had a hard time trying to understand how I fit into the relationship. It was sort of like two mis-matched jigsaw pieces. Or like when you try to cuddle someone and can't put your arm around them. You're like, WTF do I do with this arm??? The relationship didn't last long but I was very aware that I needed to break the mold and get out of the role that I was used to being in.

 

Frankly, it took being really honest with myself and how I show up in relationships. And it took time to redefine myself. Oddly enough, I fell in love with a very strong and independent woman and after a year or so of being in the relationship I found myself dusting off all of those old habits. Except this time it was a "here let me take that" or "let me help you" thing instead of a saving or doing thing.

 

Does that make sense?

[Woggle]

The men who do this are the ones who always tend to end up with women who mistreat them. Women who already have their stuff in order make much better gfs or wives.

[Popsicle]

The men probably just struggle with emotionally connecting with her and she is unaware of this and the men can't put it into words either.

[Taramere]

Strength can attract you to a person, but vulnerability is often what really connects you to them in a very powerful way. But vulnerability is something people will often tend to keep concealed and only show to those they really trust. In that sense, a man might feel happy that the woman trusts him enough to show vulnerability around him. On a more biological level, I suppose it can trigger protective or predatory instincts associated with sex urges.

[Nowty V]

I believe it's the proverbial 'Nice guy' who is more comfortable connecting with a vulnerable/needy female.

 

Such men have some kind of negative experience in their early childhood and due to 'mistaken certainties' that they form are unable to build healthy relationships.

 

I was typical of this sort until I started therapy in 2004 and took pains to raise my level of awareness.

 

I can't shake off the brand completely [as reading between the lines of my posts will prove] but at least now I am fully aware of the mechanisms in play and manage them appropriately.

 

I can form healthy relationships however I can be like 'a moth to the flame' toward the more random sort of woman.

[MissBee]

Was talking to a female friend of mine, single mother, in her mid 40s...she told me a lot of men she attempts to date loose interest in her because...or so she claims as I think this is just speculation on her part...that men are turned off by the fact that she doesn't need "saving".

 

That, they are turned off that she doesn't need any kind of support from them as most men SHE's encountered prefer some kind of damsel in distress.

 

Of course, I'm wondering if this just another version of, "Men are intimidated by an independent woman.", but I am not aware of many men that are like this...anyone think men are more attracted to women that need "saving" or some kind of financial support?

 

Of course some men are like this.

 

Codependency is a thing and both men and women can suffer from this, and it usually involves being in relationships where one person is wayward, addicted, doesn't have their shyt together or majorly lacking in some way and the other person gets to waste their time trying to save and help them.

 

This is a very common occurrence. My former roommate is bipolar, suffers from depression, bulimia and abuses alcohols and pills and basically got kicked out of school (and has lost jobs because of it), yet she always has boyfriends who seem responsible and normal...but they clearly are not all the way healthy to be with her. Her last bf was a guy she lived with for 4 years, he's an attorney, she lived with him rent-free, she lost her job, was drinking and such and he took care of her. She moved to start a new program and we became roommates (I didn't know her or her issues prior), she broke it off with that guy some months in, then 2 months later found a new boyfriend, a doctor, who also would constantly have her over his shoulder bringing her home when she was drunk, waiting on her hand and foot etc...she got kicked out of school last semester and he was going back to his country and had nowhere to go, and he took her with him and says he wants to marry her..now she's in Europe living off him. I was in total shock like okay maybe being totally nuts is how to find a man lol. I am sure these guys are choosing her because they have issues and they like the fact that she is dependent on them and they feel good taking care of her...because most other sane men would run for the hills...yet I am sometimes truly in shock at how it's possible that she seems to always find man after man willing to support her and who on the outside at least seem like they have a lot to offer and could find someone more together, but issues don't work that way...

 

I will have to agree with the nice guy and mistreatment stuff here...both these guys were also men she verbally abused, but they tolerated it and happily do what she wants...further pointing to the fact that they have their own self-worth issues, as again, no sane person who is emotionally well will take up with someone out of control and then also allow them to talk down to them. I remember once the doctor guy came for dinner and afterwards we were all hanging out and she slapped him in the face in front of me and another friend, we were both in TOTAL shock....he was a little shocked too and said she shouldn't do it again...but they are still together and he moved her to his country so CLEARLY that didn't phase him. Most sane men, if a woman slapped them in the face, whether in front of company or not, it would be the end..yet for him it was only the beginning...so clearly he loves that kind of drama...many people do.

Edited August 9, 2016 by MissBee

[LookAtThisPOst]

Of course some men are like this.

 

Codependency is a thing and both men and women can suffer from this, and it usually involves being in relationships where one person is wayward, addicted, doesn't have their shyt together or majorly lacking in some way and the other person gets to waste their time trying to save and help them.

 

This is a very common occurrence. My former roommate is bipolar, suffers from depression, bulimia and abuses alcohols and pills and basically got kicked out of school (and has lost jobs because of it), yet she always has boyfriends who seem responsible and normal...but they clearly are not all the way healthy to be with her. Her last bf was a guy she lived with for 4 years, he's an attorney, she lived with him rent-free, she lost her job, was drinking and such and he took care of her. She moved to start a new program and we became roommates (I didn't know her or her issues prior), she broke it off with that guy some months in, then 2 months later found a new boyfriend, a doctor, who also would constantly have her over his shoulder bringing her home when she was drunk, waiting on her hand and foot etc...she got kicked out of school last semester and he was going back to his country and had nowhere to go, and he took her with him and says he wants to marry her..now she's in Europe living off him. I was in total shock like okay maybe being totally nuts is how to find a man lol. I am sure these guys are choosing her because they have issues and they like the fact that she is dependent on them and they feel good taking care of her...because most other sane men would run for the hills...yet I am sometimes truly in shock at how it's possible that she seems to always find man after man willing to support her and who on the outside at least seem like they have a lot to offer and could find someone more together, but issues don't work that way...

 

I will have to agree with the nice guy and mistreatment stuff here...both these guys were also men she verbally abused, but they tolerated it and happily do what she wants...further pointing to the fact that they have their own self-worth issues, as again, no sane person who is emotionally well will take up with someone out of control and then also allow them to talk down to them. I remember once the doctor guy came for dinner and afterwards we were all hanging out and she slapped him in the face in front of me and another friend, we were both in TOTAL shock....he was a little shocked too and said she shouldn't do it again...but they are still together and he moved her to his country so CLEARLY that didn't phase him. Most sane men, if a woman slapped them in the face, whether in front of company or not, it would be the end..yet for him it was only the beginning...so clearly he loves that kind of drama...many people do.

 

 

Wow...that's totally...wow! And these guys were well off attorneys/doctors? I was thinking that the kind of guys she would be dating or taking her in would be more of the backwater, trailer trash types, but doctors/attorneys?

 

They aren't even her equal as she would be found in the gutter if it weren't for men to live off of.

 

Can you imagine men being turned off by women who have their shyt together?

 

I guess that's an UN-said thing in dating profiles, "I'm looking for a woman that doesn't have her shyt together that needs saving!" lol

[Kamille]

Many men like to feel needed. Men I've dated liked to feel like they improved my life in some way. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it can be an adjustment for a woman when she's used to doing everything on her own.

 

I can also see how liking to feel needed makes it easier to match with someone who actually needs or enjoys help.

 

I have to remind myself that their desire to "take over" and do things for me is flattering and not a comment on me being unable to support myself or my input not being important.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Many men like to feel needed. Men I've dated liked to feel like they improved my life in some way. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it can be an adjustment for a woman when she's used to doing everything on her own.

 

I can also see how liking to feel needed makes it easier to match with someone who actually needs or enjoys help.

 

I have to remind myself that their desire to "take over" and do things for me is flattering and not a comment on me being unable to support myself or my input not being important.

 

Yeah, I recall my last g/f...when she was attempting to carry a bag of salt rock for her softner...she was struggling to open a fence gate and hold the bag at the same time.

 

I offered to help, and she's like , "No, I'm fine."

 

She such a petite woman, she had hardly much strength to her. Anyways, she gave up and said, "Okay, yeah...I need help." Then I helped. But prior to that she's been so used to doing things by herself, but at least she was able to humble herself and admit that she needed help in that case.

 

Of course, this was just a task.

[Taramere]

Many men like to feel needed. Men I've dated liked to feel like they improved my life in some way. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but it can be an adjustment for a woman when she's used to doing everything on her own.

 

Is that a case of you needing them, or is it you appreciating them? I think it's very human and healthy to want appreciation, and to focus on people who have the awareness and generosity of spirit to provide that appreciation where it's merited. My reading of you, Kamille, is that you're not somebody who would struggle to extend that appreciation where it's due, and I think that ability is an important part of building human relationships.

 

Need is a bit different. If somebody needs rather than appreciates me, and only has dealings with me on the basis of that need then I'm likely to feel a bit used (unless, obviously, they're a client paying me for my services). Needy people aren't always very appreciative people. MissBee provides a good example of her former roommate who apparently needs these guys to take care of her, but (from the sound of her behaviour) certainly doesn't appreciate them.

 

It doesn't altogether surprise me, in the way that it surprises LATP, that those guys would be professional men. Part of professionalism is to put your own personal needs to one side while focusing on the client's. To put the client first, and maintain your professionalism and courtesy even when the client's behaviour isn't great. When that approach is transferred to personal relationships, it can spell trouble.

[Kamille]

Is that a case of you needing them, or is it you appreciating them?

 

That's a good way to rephrase it, thanks. It might help with future dates.

 

This is something I struggle with, but from the other side. I'm used to my abilities and opinions being taken seriously by family, friends and colleagues. Sometimes I feel like when dates want to help me, it comes out condescending, as though they're not interested in what I have to say or what I can do. It's about me being impressed by them, being passive in some way. I know they mean well but I really struggle with it.

 

I am getting better at accepting help but LATP, I used to be exactly like your ex. Would have 3 quazillions things in my hands and still tell my dates that I could open the door on my own.

 

To be honest, I feel like my "independence" of stubbornness whatever you may call it as often made the men in my life insecure.

 

/endthreadjack.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I am getting better at accepting help but LATP, I used to be exactly like your ex. Would have 3 quazillions things in my hands and still tell my dates that I could open the door on my own.

 

I actually laughed outloud on that. I just put the stuff down and open the door. lol. When I let her attempt to open the door, it was quite comical to watch her fumble around until she needed the help. :-)

[preraph]

There definitely are a lot of men like that, who want to be the hero and want to be needed. It's not a bad thing, necessarily, but at its extreme, it's the man not liking that a woman is fully competent because it makes themselves feel less confident, less desirable. But that falls everywhere on a sliding scale.

 

I had a guy I was in love with tell me one of the factors in breaking up was I didn't need him. Then he married a woman who took as much as she could from him like a leech, cheated on him, divorced and later ended up in prison for identity theft and credit card fraud. But I've known him now my whole life and he usually falls for women who take, take, take but simultaneously tell him how great he is. They pump up his ego so they can get stuff from him. He did finally marry someone who doesn't seem like that and is more genuine, but she said she still has one of his old leeches coming round taking money from him. Some people never learn.

 

But I did take a lesson from it. To some extent some guys want to feel needed. And most of us can use a little help at times, so....

[SammySammy]

I can't imagine wanting a woman who needs saving.

 

Since I was a young man, I've been attracted to women who didn't need me for anything. Women whose only reason for being with me was because they wanted to be.

[SevenCity]

I prefer a woman to let me handle man tasks - shoveling the snow because she hates the cold, racing outside in the dark with my gun because she heard a noise, helping around the house with fixing stuff.

 

I expect a woman to need me to a degree - if she doesn't than why am I there?

 

Does this make me a desperate needy whimp? I don't think so.

 

 

I don't like to pay the way for women and I expect them to be financially responsible. I do like to help out with tasks that are easier and more enjoyable for me.

[normal person]

But I did take a lesson from it. To some extent some guys want to feel needed. And most of us can use a little help at times, so....

 

There's a big difference between

1). being naturally desired because he provides support, resources, is secure, is well-adjusted, etc, and

 

2). actively seeking someone who's troubled so he can carve a niche in their lives to make them dependent on him, likely because he doesn't fall into category 1.

 

Seemingly the men who "need to feel needed" are the ones who naturally aren't. And then you've got to ask yourself why they aren't and why they need people to be dependent on them.

 

As I said earlier, it seems to me that the only men who would be turned off by women who don't need saving are men with not much to offer besides the ability to save someone who's in even worse shape than themselves. What kind of man welcomes trouble and drama into their lives? The kind who can't get a less problematic woman otherwise and thinks it's better than the alternative. That's my thought, at least.

[SammySammy]

There's a big difference between

1). being naturally desired because he provides support, resources, is secure, is well-adjusted, etc, and

 

2). actively seeking someone who's troubled so he can carve a niche in their lives to make them dependent on him, likely because he doesn't fall into category 1.

 

Seemingly the men who "need to feel needed" are the ones who naturally aren't. And then you've got to ask yourself why they aren't and why they need people to be dependent on them.

 

As I said earlier, it seems to me that the only men who would be turned off by women who don't need saving are men with not much to offer besides the ability to save someone who's in even worse shape than themselves. What kind of man welcomes trouble and drama into their lives? The kind who can't get a less problematic woman otherwise and thinks it's better than the alternative. That's my thought, at least.

 

Agreed.

 

The men I know who need women to be weak are weak themselves.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Agreed.

 

The men I know who need women to be weak are weak themselves.

 

Would that make the two compatible then, as crazy as that sounds? Meaning they compliment each other?

 

I was surprised to find out even successful men are into the helpless women.They can let them live under their roofs rent free apparently.

[deep_night]

i can understand this. im guilty for being attracted to wounded men (emotionally and sometimes physically), it's like my female nurturing instinct hits its' peak and makes me want to heal them and make them happy :| i don't see them as projects or people who are below me, it's just that my heart softens around them. i dunno if such a thing is healthy, but i suppose "saving" is a similar male instinct?

 

i've dated guys who were in a bad place in life, like emotional wrecks or figuring out their careers/finances. but the surprising thing is that they still felt the need to be useful to me, and proactively care about my physical/emotional safety and comfort. im not the helpless kind of girl, but there are times that i do need help, and i do feel that i need a specific man whom i trust to hug me and tell me everything's allright. when i was younger i couldn't bring myself to ask for support or assistance when i really needed it. but now, i do, and i think it makes my relationships better. and it makes a man feel good if you trust him so much. and if he feels good, and you are equally nice to him in a feminine way, you'll notice he'll do more and more things to make you happy.

[MissBee]

Wow...that's totally...wow! And these guys were well off attorneys/doctors? I was thinking that the kind of guys she would be dating or taking her in would be more of the backwater, trailer trash types, but doctors/attorneys?

 

They aren't even her equal as she would be found in the gutter if it weren't for men to live off of.

 

Can you imagine men being turned off by women who have their shyt together?

 

I guess that's an UN-said thing in dating profiles, "I'm looking for a woman that doesn't have her shyt together that needs saving!" lol

 

Issues don't respect your career and other social markers.

 

Being educated, well-off, having a good job, even being beautiful doesn't make you sane or capable of choosing healthy romantic relationships. The skill-sets for relationships and careers/other things aren't the same.

 

I've come to realize this a long time ago. Codependency is a huge thing that affects a lot of people in all kinds of social categories and some people are not self aware at all so truly don't even realize they have a problem. If you asked my roommates bfs, I am sure most of them would not consciously think they like women with issues...but their actions say otherwise.

[tinkerbell16]

I have experienced this... dating successful men that seem to be drawn to women that are hot messes who put them on a pedistal (which in turn makes them feel needed).

 

I was told I was "perfect" bUT in a perplexed tone. I heard stories on unstable exes from them. Seemed to be a running theme. I am stable, financially secure... dare I say, independent.

 

No attempt of me verbalizing or showing them what I appreciated about them seemed to satiate them.

 

Its as if they didn't know their role if I didn't need saving.

 

I actually started my own thread about being told I was perfect then POOF they are gone.

 

I think it is primal, the man need to feel like the provider, the hunter, the protector.

 

Gender rolls are so obscure in modern society.

 

We all fight the primal vs modern roles.

 

Sometimes I wonder if barefoot and pregnant would have been an easier row to hoe.

[SevenCity]

I thought this was about a woman making you feel like she would be worse off without you.

 

It seems that this is more about guys being drawn to a hot mess to fix.

 

I have no desire for drama / messes but I do shine when I can come in and fix a problem.

 

Funny thing is a lot of women get upset when you have the answer because it minimizes the issue for them and robs them of coming to the solution themselves.

 

Can't win...