merrmeade Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 ...she knows the longer we stay here, she will be at more of a disadvantage, so why is she proposing this? Is she bluffing? ... it's weird cause we are talking very Honestly and living in the same house. She is going by the advice of her lawyers, Please don't tell me you're asking this for real, HH. Why is she proposing this and is she bluffing? BECAUSE you cornered her finally! You're holding the cards - literally (the passports) - and she's not dumb by any means. She's still the same sociopath - who, don't forget, can appear honest, charming, loving, etc. if that's what's expected - but she realizes that what she needs to do to get what she wants has changed. Also, I suspect she's feeling more attracted to you because she sees you in this new situation as more powerful than before - when, don't forget, she vilely disrespected you. She's a freaking sociopath, your wife. How could you forget this! Ted Bundy knew exactly what to do and say and look like to make people love him. Duh!... the best thing I could do is to convince her that I'm sincere and that we can go back in January and avoid expensive lawyers ... So right now..she will talk to her lawyer and I will talk to mine and see if this contract thing is possible... That's better. And the Machiavellian lawyer idea along with it. Can you look at it like this: Play like YOU're a sociopath and this is what you have to do to interact with another sociopath. You have to lie and pretend and assume that she's doing the same. You canNOT afford to trust her, but you must make her think that you do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 She is confident that she would win and I would lose.. she is now proposing that my lawyer keep the kids passports until January and that we have a signed agreement that her and the kids have to return in January and that the passports are handed over to her on such a date/ I can go or stay...her lawyer will also recommend a lawyer in my city who is knowledgable about The Hague and these matters... So basically we are making a contract,... So right now..she will talk to her lawyer and I will talk to mine and see if this contract thing is possible... NO, no, no - wait a minute! So January would not be 6 months, right? Why would you consider such a contract drawn up by her lawyer? Here we go again, HH. YOu, giving up and being lulled into trusting her. Are we back to regular sex maybe? I suspect so because she's figured out what all she needs to do to get control again in response to this major chess play of yours. No, HH, you don't sign that contract. There must be another maneuver before she goes all Hague on you. Keep working. Talk to another lawyer! Money is nothing right now. Also just want to point out that professionals will always approach a situation like yours as 'negotiations' and looking for equal compromise on both sides. But you know better, HH! You don't OWE her compromise! SHe owes you and you need to hold yourself to that conviction. Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 No contract, no way, no how, no where. Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Listen to your lawyer. Have you exposed her affair partners yet? Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Nobody on LS is your attorney. Do as your atty advises and don't take advice from strangers, mostly in a different country from you, who don't know the law, you or your situation. I wish you luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Cephalopod Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Wife was talking about 'trust' and the kids passports. I lied and said the lawyer has them in a safe.. I am worried that there will be another bust up / her threat is that she will return to japan alone if the passports are not retrieved. She also seems to have done abit of research and she mentioned The Hague and that she would go back to japan and consult with a lawyer there.... I thought about getting fake ones over the internet.. But don't know if I have enough time... I worry about a second stand off...we are living in my dad's house. I don't won't the kids to experience another tug of war and have screaming kids and there mother saying she's leaving... Maybe I have to make a move and than tell her either stay or go... The Hague has no real power here in the States, and they would not waste their time with a nothing case like yours. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 The Hague has no real power here in the States, and they would not waste their time with a nothing case like yours. I've started thinking about how his kids will feel about never seeing their mom again. Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I've started thinking about how his kids will feel about never seeing their mom again. Kids can face time. Kids can Skype. Kids when adults can go visit. AND Most important mom can come visit the kids. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Blunt Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Do I understand the following: HurtHusband (HH) has complete control of the passports for his children HH Has money to pay a lawyer HH's wife does not enough money to pay a lawyer to win The house they all live in belongs to HH's father The Hague is not applicable in the USA Which of the above is true and which false? If the above is true then there is a 90% chance that HH will win. Why is HH so alarmed and afraid? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author HurtHusband Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 We are in Europe, not the US. We live rent free in my dads house, he is out everyday and we have plenty of space. A Hague case can be lengthy and costly, however I think she wants to avoid this, I am just going on my lawyers advice, 6 months minimum, kids in school and settled and me working....a yr would be better. You have to remember, we all came here together and she went to the school and helped me enroll the kids etc. If I was 'retaining' her and the kids in this country why has she not ran off to her embassy with the kids?? Of course there will be major fireworks come January if we don't go back... She just wants to go back to our old life. I am scared to go back to that life, also I have not mentioned divorce and I am not taking the children from their mother. The children love their mother, but why do I have to go back to my old life? Or else what?? We are all together here now. I can understand she's in a different country, but as I wrote earlier there are lots of good things about living here too. I have a nauseous feeling in my stomach most days....this 6 moth thing hovering over me...I would be just barely getting into a work rhythm and than back again..however the biggest reason is legally and regarding custody. Would be safer here.. Link to post Share on other sites
TheWoman Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 You are doing really well HH. Do not under any circumstances consider leaving where you are. I suggest you start chatting with her about an excellent career opportunity that might present soon, that will bring in extra cash and possibly allow you to return to the former country one day... nothing in writing. Consult a solicitor asap, and a then a barrister as soon as you can. My experience of divorce is that solicitors are secretaries and barristers are the one who are actually applying the law. HTH Good luck ! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author HurtHusband Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 Ok it's now October, we are all still living together and for the last month our relationship was actually very good and normal. Kids are adjusting to school and doing very well and I found a job. Wife goes to exercises classes and we both joined a fitness class... Before it was write down that we will return in January, today it was say it into her iPhone while she recorded it.. I assured her we could go back next year and even talked to her mother by phone and said thanks for looking after things and we will be back next year. I did this to reassure her and calm her down. She wanted to stay in ahotel tonight because I am not doing what she wants ( speaking into the recording phone ) so I let her walk out and she promised to call later. Kids were upset naturally but reassured them and were fine after awhile, she promised to call once she booked into somewhere.. Our city us small, so met her in town and had lunch and we came home again... I don't want her staying outside and I don't want our relationship to disintegrate, it will be her choice eventually. My daughter is not stupid and says I want to see both of you...of course I can't explain to her why we can't go back ( I would have no rights back there, well less than I have here and would be back under her thumb ) so it's hard when your kids say 'daddy where are the passports?? Mommy is upset so give her the passports! It's hard to listen to that... Now recently it's give the passports to your brother in law cause he's 'neutral' and he can give them back to her in dec. I don't want to. I reassure her we can go back and I won't sign or record any promise cause legally it could come back to haunt me later.... I don't know if she can just go on blind trust..her biggest fear is that come January I will change my mind and want to stay here and than what ?? ( of course that's exactly what will happen, come January I will say well let's stay awhile longer cause I can save and we have a good life here..) yes maybe it's not fair for her, cause I suffered for two yrs is it fair that I should do this to her? You can't undo the past.. We are together and we can stay together here.. It would be her choice eventually, I do want to trust her and I should never of ended up in this bizarre situation, but this is where you end up when your partner ****s your friend and cheats on you. Why can't she just accept that this is the price she has to pay? Why should I cave in? I can't... Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I've started thinking about how his kids will feel about never seeing their mom again. I'm sure their heads won't hurt as much considering she physically abuses them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author HurtHusband Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) In this country it's illegal to hit a child, does not matter where or how hard. I was told this by the police here. I would not go so far as to say she physically abuses them, but she does have a temper and I have cringed and felt sorry for the kids on the occasions when she did hit them.. I explained that she can't hit them on the head and she promised not to do it anymore. Raising kids can be very stressful, but I sometimes think she can't handle stress and if she shouts at them..I don't like that.. She has been on mild anti depressants for over two yrs and now takes some healthy primrose evening oil or something similar.. She says its like she has two switches and she can be out of sorts and have trouble sleeping.. I am sympathetic but can't understand tbh The kids love their mother regardless. Of course back in her country its a 'cultural thing'. I might be doing them a favor by keeping them here.. Edited October 1, 2016 by HurtHusband Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Are you seriously saying you want to attempt to maintain this marriage? This woman has zero respect for you and is a serial cheater, abusive and controlling. I thought the plan was to get her back to gain a more favorable custody agreement. Beta to a fault, and its taking so much away from your kids, having to watch this display of pure dysfunction. So sad, poor girls. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author HurtHusband Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 DKt3 we would have to be here minimum six months for the kids to be habitually resident here, that's according to my lawyer. And for those six months it's better if we get along, yes it's a game. I don't want any displays of dysfunction. It's distressing for the kids, it's stressful, Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) DKt3 And for those six months it's better if we get along, yes it's a game. I don't want any displays of dysfunction. It's distressing for the kids, it's stressful, which is all well and good to say but you sounded awfully satisfied with the current state of affairs. And that would be your business EXCEPT that I remember how vicious she could be when she was in control and you felt desperate and exploited. And aren't you suspicious of her timing? Lives well with you for a month then feels safe asking you to record your promise to .... (go back). When you don't she has a meltdown and the subsequent hissy fit to get her way. And it totally worked! You're back all nervous about what she's going to do .- I might be doing them a favor by keeping them here. (You had a doUbt?) Edited October 2, 2016 by merrmeade 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 HH I think I understand your plan. Have you FORMULATED YOUR PLAN regardless of what WW does? EVERYTHING must be dons by you WITHOUT disclosing anything to WW. You really NEED your passport AND the girls in a VERY SAFE place. Have you considered a safety deposit box in a bank? With YOU as the only signatory. So even if she found the keys and worked out where they are, she wouldn't get access to them. A Border Alert or whatever you need to do, to make sure she doesn't take the kids and run is important. I understand your 6 month wait. Sure play happy families as much as you can. I'd really ham it up tbh. I'm surprised you haven't gone full exposure to WW family but that should all wait now. You need ALOT of legal advice. IME ALOT can be gained from Government websites clearly outlining law in the country you're residing in. I'm sure you've already sought this. Have you got a CLEAR PLAN for after this 6 month period is up? YOU NEED one in clear steps. I would prepare for WW to go off the richter at any, various points or all of them. What your reaction will be. Hopefully she'll return to J by herself, try whatever she wants. Meet dead ends. Return for access only. Good luck. Lion Heart Link to post Share on other sites
Author HurtHusband Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) She can't relax until January cause I have the passports, she wants me to give them to my brother in law as she views him as safe and neutral.. A lawyer would cost money.. She mentioned a woman's shelter today, she said it's mental/power harassment and she could stay in a shelter for women with the kids and I won't know where she is and they move every month.. She said she does not want to do that.... I said I don't want her to do that and would have to talk to a lawyer... Edited October 2, 2016 by HurtHusband Link to post Share on other sites
merrmeade Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) She can't relax until January cause I have the passports, she wants me to give them to my brother in law as she views him as safe and neutral.. A lawyer would cost money.. She mentioned a woman's shelter today, she said it's mental/power harassment and she could stay in a shelter for women with the kids and I won't know where she is and they move every month.. She said she does not want to do that.... I said I don't want her to do that and would have to talk to a lawyer... Interesting. She's not stupid. You already knew that. She's on to you. This is the problem. I suspect as well she's been nice and cooperative because she wanted you to trust her and give her the passports. How about giving the passports to YOUR lawyer? Or to someone or something else that you trust? Or you need to change the plan. This one isn't going to work if she won't stay. The women's shelter threat is not idle. And she is capable of telling whatever story about you. She's already shown that. God. Mental harassment my rass. But "power harassment" - from her perspective - makes total sense. She feels vulnerable as I've said before, because she's in your county and culture, dependent on you and you're showing this suspicious behavior and controlling something she feels she should have equal access to. The women's shelter threat means she's willing to go to extreme measures. Also, very important: She does not think she is being unreasonable; she thinks you are. She's always had a justification for everything she's done; she does not think she's doing - or did - anything wrong. Even getting pregnant by another man and letting you pay for the abortion, bonking the kids on the head, etc. she doesn't let bother her. She will always feel justified in whatever she does. If you want to keep your kids, you're going to have to spend some money. You're just not going to outsmart, out-trick, outmaneuver her. I'm sorry, hh, but she's just smarter (people smarts), trickier and more manipulative than you could ever hope to be. You need better advice from someone smarter, trickier and more manipulative than she is and who understands her psychological profile - a psychologist maybe? An international lawyer or custody attorney? You need to prepare for divorce and getting custody, in my opinion, before she makes another move. Do you have all that proof of infidelity? Abuse? Isn't it possible you could get custody or get emergency custody and a restraining order from a judge? Any way you could get her to just leave (without the kids)?? Edited October 2, 2016 by merrmeade Link to post Share on other sites
Author HurtHusband Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Phoned brother in law in front of her to ask ( I had called earlier to let him know ) it made me look more reasonable..of course he declined..she was disappointed..we had a good fun family day out today. I wish this thing would just go away but I know it will keep cropping up... She entered this country and is allowed to stay for 90 days I think..I am suppose to go to the police station to vouch for her and say we are married etc. but after her comment about the women's shelter I am starting to think why the hell should I help her? Am not an expert on immigration, she has her own passport. The kids have passports for this country and are in school here.. If we are estranged and she overstays and has her own passport than that's her problem.. I don't want to be a nasty guy, but we have a normal life or at least we could have. I don't like being threatened and her turning the screws on me, many men would have left her two years ago when she said she was pregnant with the OM's child. i don't like fighting but I may have to.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Phoned brother in law in front of her to ask ( I had called earlier to let him know ) it made me look more reasonable..of course he declined..she was disappointed..we had a good fun family day out today. I wish this thing would just go away but I know it will keep cropping up... She entered this country and is allowed to stay for 90 days I think..I am suppose to go to the police station to vouch for her and say we are married etc. but after her comment about the women's shelter I am starting to think why the hell should I help her? Am not an expert on immigration, she has her own passport. The kids have passports for this country and are in school here.. If we are estranged and she overstays and has her own passport than that's her problem.. I don't want to be a nasty guy, but we have a normal life or at least we could have. I don't like being threatened and her turning the screws on me, many men would have left her two years ago when she said she was pregnant with the OM's child. i don't like fighting but I may have to.. What you really need to do is give up on the idea that you have a future with this woman. Even in this post you word things in a way that suggests you still want to be with her ie we could have a good life here. No, no you can't, eventually she would find another other man. Or continue with the current one. Come on man, this marriage is cooked, nothing to hold on to. In how many ways can she tell or show you she isn't interested. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MJJean Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Am I the only one who has noticed a pattern here? She plays nice, when she doesn't get what she wants she starts a fight, then she leaves for a night. That's cheater classic. Every time she starts a fight and leaves, I'd bet $5 she's spending her time away with a man. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author HurtHusband Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 MJJEAN she is not meeting any man in our present circumstance... We are back in my home country now.. I took the kids to school and will pick them up today. She got upset cause she felt I don't trust her after she made the comment about the shelter. I want her to pick up the kids and pleaded with her to do so.. It's ok for today but I can't just miss work everyday cause my wife won't take/ pick up the kids...I will have to talk to her about that.. I do not want my wife and kids going into a shelter because I will not be told where they are, any accusations of abuse are taken seriously here and it means I won't see them until we go to court. Which may take awhile.... That's just the procedure here... My kids may have to go to school elsewhere too. If the shelter is far away, I have done nothing, but it's power harassment according to her. ( withholding kids passports) It is upsetting my life, I am afraid to go to work in case my wife and kids disappear into a shelter.. I feel quite depressed right now... Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 MJJEAN she is not meeting any man in our present circumstance... We are back in my home country now.. I took the kids to school and will pick them up today. She got upset cause she felt I don't trust her after she made the comment about the shelter. I want her to pick up the kids and pleaded with her to do so.. It's ok for today but I can't just miss work everyday cause my wife won't take/ pick up the kids...I will have to talk to her about that.. I do not want my wife and kids going into a shelter because I will not be told where they are, any accusations of abuse are taken seriously here and it means I won't see them until we go to court. Which may take awhile.... That's just the procedure here... My kids may have to go to school elsewhere too. If the shelter is far away, I have done nothing, but it's power harassment according to her. ( withholding kids passports) It is upsetting my life, I am afraid to go to work in case my wife and kids disappear into a shelter.. I feel quite depressed right now... You can not cave in to your WW you fought to hard to get where you are to lose because you got weak and let your fears take over. You have family living close to you now? Have them help you in situations where picking up kids are involved. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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