Major bust up long overdue

[merrmeade]

What you really need to do is give up on the idea that you have a future with this woman. Even in this post you word things in a way that suggests you still want to be with her ie we could have a good life here. No, no you can't, eventually she would find another other man. Or continue with the current one. Come on man, this marriage is cooked, nothing to hold on to. In how many ways can she tell or show you she isn't interested.

I agzree that he sounds a little too enabling with his happy and noRmal updates BUT it's also clear that he needs for her to trust him and stop the drama.

[MJJean]

MJJEAN she is not meeting any man in our present circumstance... We are back in my home country now.. I took the kids to school and will pick them up today. She got upset cause she felt I don't trust her after she made the comment about the shelter. I want her to pick up the kids and pleaded with her to do so.. It's ok for today but I can't just miss work everyday cause my wife won't take/ pick up the kids...I will have to talk to her about that..

 

I do not want my wife and kids going into a shelter because I will not be told where they are, any accusations of abuse are taken seriously here and it means I won't see them until we go to court. Which may take awhile.... That's just the procedure here... My kids may have to go to school elsewhere too. If the shelter is far away, I have done nothing, but it's power harassment according to her. ( withholding kids passports) It is upsetting my life, I am afraid to go to work in case my wife and kids disappear into a shelter..

 

I feel quite depressed right now...

 

Unless your home country is without internet and cellular service, your wife can find d!ck any day of the week and on short notice.

 

Look, I was a wayward wife. I had multiple affairs during my first marriage. That said, your wife is one of the most remorseless and manipulative serial cheaters I have ever heard of. Considering my time on various forums and the people I know irl, that's saying something.

 

The reality is that your wife will do whatever necessary for her to get what she wants. What she wants is very simple. I've read all of your threads. She has indicated very clearly she wants one of two things.

 

1) To keep up appearances and have a marriage based on mutual convenience where you both have affairs and shut the hell up about it.

 

or

 

2) To take herself and her kids back to her home country where she will have complete control over them and, through them, you and your income.

 

She has a plan, she has the will to execute it ruthlessly, and her thinking isn't clouded by any warm fuzzies toward you. Unless you're willing to completely detach, have the clarity to see her manipulations, and the will to follow through, she'll win.

 

If you're going to keep letting her suck you back in by her many obvious manipulations, you might as well pack it up, go back to Japan, let her have her lovers, and find someone of your own to fulfill your physical and emotional needs until the kids become adults.

 

Jesus, at least buy a VAR and keep it with you so that the next time she threatens to falsely accuse you of abuse, you have evidence she is lying...

Edited October 3, 2016 by MJJean

[DKT3]

So true. I think his problem is he is trying to navigate through this with his end game together, she offers together in appearance only were she does as she pleases.

 

There is no marriage here, and you continuing to want it will never make her be the wife you want.

 

The both of you are using your kids like chess pieces, and likely F-ing them up in the process

[HurtHusband]

Look my goal is to keep things peaceful for the minimum six months,so that if things go pear shaped at least the kids are covered under this countries laws. That means so much compared to so many people I know back in that country facing insurmountable brick walls and years with no access or rights to see their kids.

 

 

"Kill her with kindness" is what my female lawyer said...her moving out now, going into a shelter and having people fill her head with notions, free legal aid, etc etc. I don't want that..

 

if she acts up after six months, seperate in this country and share custody..if she demands to go back after six months, fine, but she can't go back with the kids and can separate here or go back and forth etc. It's a bizarre situation really. As for her being the wife I wanted etc. We spend a lot of time together as a family and those are happy good times...she practically crawled out of the counselling room two months ago when she had to face up to what she had done...also I really unloaded on her ( verbally ) back in July. Her guilt is buried deep inside her.

 

Personally, I would prefer to be with a woman with better moral standards, who would not have done what she did, and it still turns my stomach somedays to think about it...is it a male pride thing...she had more sex with that bastard than with her own husband...she has shared memories with someone else...someone meaningless now...

 

that burning seething resentment comes out now and then...there is normalcy and taking kids to school and indoor play places etc. But I do wonder sometimes how could she have done that to me...

 

There are no direct flights between here and her country, I should have measures in place to make sure she wont be able to flee back there with the kids.

 

Thanks everyone for your advice, things are normal again...small flare ups...it's like a game...I have not given in to any of her demands...and she has not escalated anything apart from idle threats... I do take her words seriously of course...I have to..but keeping things peaceful for now is enough...

[merrmeade]

"Kill her with kindness" is what my female lawyer said...her moving out now, going into a shelter and having people fill her head with notions, free legal aid, etc etc. I don't want that..

...

I would prefer to be with a woman with better moral standards, who would not have done what she did, and it still turns my stomach somedays to think about it...is it a male pride thing...she had more sex with that bastard than with her own husband...she has shared memories with someone else...someone meaningless now...

 

that burning seething resentment comes out now and then...there is normalcy and taking kids to school and indoor play places etc. But I do wonder sometimes how could she have done that to me...

Makes sense what the lawyer said. Hope you can get back to Plan A.

 

But I've decided it's things like your bizarrely understated reactions like the statements in bold that makes posters react so strongly to your posts, HH. I mean, hell yes, one would wonder how she could do all that.

 

She could do all that because she's not like other people. She's not like you. That's where you start wrong from the get-go. You attribute and expect normal behavior from her.

 

Maybe it's cultural language differences.

[MJJean]

So, basically, you still don't understand that she is pretending in order lull you into a sense of security in order to more easily manipulate you? Those happy family moments? Yeah, that's an act. The guilt? Also an act. Unless you were reading into it.

 

A woman who deliberately conceives with another man, plans to pass the kid off as her husbands, has an abortion instead, then proceeds to tell her husband she wants to be free to have affairs and that he should find someone of his own DOESN'T FEEL GUILTY.

 

Stop thinking like a Western man in love with his wife and start thinking like a Japanese woman who ISN'T in love with her husband.

[MJJean]

 

She could do all that because she's not like other people. She's not like you. That's where you start wrong from the get-go. You attribute and expect normal behavior from her.

 

Maybe it's cultural language differences.

 

I honestly think that HH fails to truly understand that his wife was raised in a much different culture. One that many people have said an outsider will never understand because it is so subtle and complex. I think HH interprets her words, gestures, and actions inaccurately both because they were raised to think so very differently and also because he loves her and is seeing some of what he wants to see.

[HurtHusband]

OK its coming up to 6 months since we came back here...

As you all know, I promised that we would eventually go back at some stage, maybe after Christmas. I had to do this, as in legally. Now she is asking me to check airfare prices etc. I will have to say something like "its cheaper in feb/march..and why not let the children finish the academic year here first?

 

 

Minimum 6 months..a yr is better..for the kids to be habitually resident here according to the lawyer.

 

 

Right now I just feel unease,anxiety, the kids are fine and have made friends are doing really well at school. Our relationship between us has become much better. She wants honesty and communication and the kids to be happy. But will she still be like that when she does not get what she wants?? how far is she willing to go?? I assume I will be branded a liar if I don't agree to go back in winter..she might say this to the kids to paint me in a bad light. I will say it makes more sense to stay here and let them finish the academic year.

 

 

Does she want to accept that she is the reason why we are living in this country and that I would not let the kids go back until they are over the age of 16? I have been through a lot, 2 years of putting up with cheating, threats of divorce in her country where I have zero/no rights.. she thinks part of forgiveness is not bringing up the past. I understand that, but this is the choice and this is the trade off, you live here and have happy families or go back alone.

 

 

I could put very high barriers in place.."get your mother to sign her property over to me to compensate for any potential future infidelity on her part" ( in reality there is no guarantee that would make me go back there, as long as they have a backward/ complete absence of shared parental rights). But I wonder what her response to that would be?? Previously I mentioned something like this, about contacting a lawyer in her country and having some sort of agreement in place that would protect both our rights..again, I know the answer and its don't go back..so I could present her with some letter from a lawyer even..and say "here look, that's the verdict"

[MJJean]

It's been nearly 6 months, yes? Retain your lawyer and begin the process as soon as you are able. DO NOT leave your home country or allow your children to be taken out of the country. DO NOT trust your wife. She has proven time and again she cannot be trusted.

[eye of the storm]

HH. Talk to your lawyer. Get them to help you come up with a game plan to end this. Living like this, constantly worried, constantly thinking up ways to lie and drag things out. Just tell your lawyer, that you have been her 6 months, the kids are in school, you have a job. You want to end this now.

 

Tell them you suspect she may try to accuse you of abuse and take the children to a shelter. How to prevent that? Tell them you suspect she may try to take the kids out of country. How to prevent that?

 

But you cannot keep living like this. It is time. end it.

 

Thinking good thoughts for you.

[DKT3]

The problem here has remained constant, that is he wants to SAVE a marriage with a woman who has absolutely no desire or respect for him. As Iong as he continues with that being the goal he will fall short of capitalizing on any advantage he gains, she will continue to have the upper hand, in this case it's means either having equal rights with his kids or totally being at her mercy. This marriage is dead, she is a serial cheater with no interest in changing.

[HurtHusband]

Thank you for your feedback. It's stressful right now because she assumes we are going back in January and asks me about tickets and wheather I paid a deposit or not.

 

I would suggest June which would give me more time and legally cover me as by than it would be almost a year. I don't know how she will react to this suggestion and things could blow up. How she reacts is her decision, but all I can do is stand firm and stay calm, just observe her and not get emotionally drawn into a fight.

 

Sorry to admit but I do want to preserve my family and spare my children any pain. I just want to have a normal family life. But this is where we are now...

[aliveagain]

She is now in the position you were in when she had the threat of taking your children away hanging over your head back in Japan. You need to listen to your lawyer with regards to your children and find a way to negotiate a relationship that allows you both to feel safe wile keeping your children in both your lives regardless if you stay together as a couple. The first requirement should be to take yourself out of infidelity, however that looks like. Your in a much stronger position where you are to do that then you were in Japan, don't waste this advantage.

[DKT3]

Thank you for your feedback. It's stressful right now because she assumes we are going back in January and asks me about tickets and wheather I paid a deposit or not.

 

I would suggest June which would give me more time and legally cover me as by than it would be almost a year. I don't know how she will react to this suggestion and things could blow up. How she reacts is her decision, but all I can do is stand firm and stay calm, just observe her and not get emotionally drawn into a fight.

 

Sorry to admit but I do want to preserve my family and spare my children any pain. I just want to have a normal family life. But this is where we are now...

 

This is not a healthy relationship dynamic or environment to bring your girls up in. Thier mother has or shows you absolutely no respect. Staying will most definitely increase the risk that your girls will repeat the very dynamic in thier upcoming relationships.

[HurtHusband]

I feel abit dismayed because today I read about a case in the courts here which is very similar to our own situation...

 

 

irish father/aus wife. they came here in summer 2016, two kids, he retained the kids passports. Wife never really settled and wanted to go back. At first the court said the kids habitual residence was here, but on appeal they sided with the mother and claimed that the father retaining passports was against the hague and also that the kids were born and raised in aus previously.

 

 

I was told by my lawyers and everyone I know to retain the kids passports/ otherwise my wife would be gone like a shot. I don't feel hopeful that a judge here would take the time to compare custody law in aus vs japan/ cause at least in Australia they have laws and some semblance of fairness. They don't in japan. Now I don't know if we will end up in court/legal action. But I am worried. We made friends with other jp/irish couple here with kids/ and I wish our life was like theirs. Why do I have to be in this situation??

 

 

I did what I thought was the safest option for my kids by coming back here/ I got legal advice while I was back in jp and from talking to countless friends and the lawyer I spoke to, they advised that it would be better to go back. Add to this the fact she was in an emotional affair and planning her next affair so I decided for us to go back....

 

 

I hope we can have a peaceful Christmas/ I hope she values all of us being together as a family. I know some posters here advise me to separate but if we did do that now, I think that would make her more inclined to want to go back, and maybe do a hague case in which case she would have a strong chance of winning...

[JS84]

Dude, that woman has a personality disorder. Maybe BPD? Idk but she is bats#$t. That's why you're in your situation.

 

So you keep saying 6 months is the goal but what exactly does that guarantee you??

 

Eventually you're going to have to decide to either go back or tell her you and the kids aren't going anywhere. Because it sounds like she's determined to leave. And from what you say even if she does leave by herself she's still in a good position legally in terms of custody.

[Southwardbound]

You should know if you're wife takes the kids to Japan and then files for divorce there, Japan does NOT recognize Hague agreements. Your kids will grown up there. so if you have those passports, don't let go of them.

 

However, she can go and she can indeed file for child custody. She could take the case to the Hague. You cannot keep her there. Nor, can you keep the kids there, if she wins custody, unless 1) your children are over the age of 16, 2) you can prove that it would be a hardship for you to visit the kids there (i.e - you do not have the financial means to visit there at least once in a year).

 

child custody cases in divorce are decided upon where the child has had residency - that means 6 months or more in a place. Don't go through your divorce until you have resided in your current country for 6 months or preferably more than, otherwise she could remove kids.

 

When you get a divorce, if it is in the English Court system, make sure it is a PERFECTED one, not an imperfected one, so you don't have any later problems down the road.

 

this advice comes from having going through a very messy international divorce & child custody experience on two continents.

 

good luck.

[HurtHusband]

It's just 6 months now since we came here...

 

Js84 6 months means the kids are resident here, they are not just tourists who can be sent back, but citizens here with rights to see both parents under Irish law. We came here on a two week vacation and than things inevitably 'blew up'

A year would be much better but I was told minimum 6 months by the lawyer.

 

I had to lie and say we would go back in order to stay here for the minimum 6 months prevent her going legal on me.....

 

Southwardbound would love to hear more about your experience, are you in your home country now? Do you both share custody? If you think it's best for both parents to see the kids and be involved as parents after separation than its better that they stay here...in this country they have mediated separation / actual legal divorce takes 3-5 yrs!! In Japan its sign one document and you are both legally divorced in 1 day ( same for marriage ) does not matter if your still married/ separated in Japan in relation to custody, just depends on the whim of the parent with physical custody.

 

I hope I can persuade her to stay here longer, or persuade her to avoid a Hague/legal case. I did not expose her to her mother and friends and in Japan the OM's wife would be entitled to sue my wife and claim damages for having an affair with her husband. They are still together I think, but they might not be if I got in touch with her and told her everything..I don't want to intimidate my wife by threatening to expose her but at some stage I might have to..

Edited December 13, 2016 by HurtHusband

[HurtHusband]

Today I suggested may instead of going back in Jan and my wife flipped....she was raging at me for ago of while. I stayed calm but she thinks I am a lier, she told the neighbors and all her friends back in Jp that I took the passports away from the kids and she is trapped here, so they all think I am an *******. Of course she did not tell them about her pregnancy, infidelity and the real reason we are here...on and on...the neighbours are pissed cause they have to mind the chihuahua and gas,water bills are piling up back there, and not to mention what about the 6 months I was not working back there, from the time we came here until now...that's time I could have been earning and making money...but here I am not employed yet...so on and on it went...and I just listened calmly...

 

Apparently it's hell here and she would go back yesterday if she could....

 

She was very dramatic and acting out, and threatened to cut her wrists with a box cutter or she said ..'you cut them' as apparently I am killing her by keeping her here....she demanded to go to a travel agency NOW to buy tickets and stormed off with both kids....

 

a neighbours came out and I was pleading with her to calm down and let us go together and leave the kids out of it...she kept telling the older kid that daddy is a lier and don't trust daddy which was horrible..I assured the kid that kid that things are fine....I picked up the younger one and went into the neighbours for a coffee and she has now gone into town with the elder kid...

Edited December 14, 2016 by HurtHusband

[sandylee1]

Tell her she's free to go to Japan (by herself) and return when she wants, but it's disruptive to move the kids out of school.

 

I second that your desire for normality is terribly unhealthy, given what she's done to you. At best, you should just be happy to coparent. She has zero respect for you.

[HurtHusband]

Right now I would be very happy to coparent.....but she is not calm...

She wants out right now with the kids and said I can stay here... Than shebeing very dramatic with theelderchild to make it look like I'm a threat or a lier....it's not nice...

[aliveagain]

I think you need to lawyer up and start the process. She knows she has the power over you in Japan, fighting her in Ireland is your best option. This isn't going away and by the sounds of it escalating very quickly.

[HurtHusband]

On the advice of someone who is very knowledgable on international marriages/parental abductions and has first hand experience...advised me to go to the courthouse tomorrow and file for emergency custody or guardianship because I am worried about the safety of my children. I do not need a lawyer and he even sent me the document link/ she is back with the child. But this level of drama is not healthy and I have to do something....if I file this, he police will sit up and actually do something if she goes awol or does anything crazy...

 

 

She is disappointed, she feels that she was very good for the past six months and 'endured' it here...she says she will never see her kids again if she goes back alone / that's not true, I would want her to see the kids as much as possible, but if she lives back there she can't come back here often because of the expense...now she owns property worth half a million. It's her choice if she wants to go back and live there...I don't have the luxury of rights or even the security of knowing I will see my kids back there..

 

I can't bring anything up about her past affairs, this is 'unfair'. And she is very vocal and just goes on berating me while I can barely get a word in....I was just trying to say that I suffered in the past because of her actions, but apparently that does not apply. I said if we go back, will you stop 'messing about? She said she could have affairs here or back there, regardless of what country we were in?? I thought that was very brazen and not the words of someone who feels remorse...

 

she still feels justifed over her affairs because I did not give her enough attention or some other BS. It's about 90% to 10% I said does this apply in the future also? If I don't give you proper attention you might feel justifed in cheating and she said she would... I can't believe that, and that's not good enough for me, what abut loyalty?? I don't have the heart to really tell her what I think, not with the kids around. I wish she would take responsibilities for her own infidelity. I thought at he very least she would understand this and be rolling on the floor begging for forgiveness but she's not at all....

 

She's very angry with me...sometimes emotional welling up with tears...and looks downright depressed....and brings up the fact I have not found a good job here ( despite my efforts). I understand the economic argument, I made good money back there, and worked for 16 yrs straight,never unemployed and easy to get work. The economic argument might be valid if she was a good and faithful wife, but she's not. So I am happy picking my kids up at 2.30 and all the other mothers knowing that I am one of those unemployed dads...I want to work, and I am contacting employers everyday, but I have this situation also..she won't stay here no matter what job I get. She wants her 6 months she spent here back, the bills back there, the dog, renewing her driving license..on and on...she said she would go back regardless even without the kids...cause sorting out all that stuff is important to her... I would be on my hands and knees thanking Jesus if she just went....

[HurtHusband]

My wife has decided to leave and go back alone....she is very emotional. It's nighttime but she is crying and hugging our daughter and saying 'I'm sorry and I tried my best as a mother for 6 years..and I will see you in 10-20 yrs and you will find me and understand one day....I feel heartbroken...I don't like to see her suffer either..she could go and come back a week later for all I care. She says she can't be back in the same situation again, she made up her mind she must go...but this 10 yr thing? So she's just leaving for good and not going to be a mother...I don't understand...let her get some space, sort herself out...

[HurtHusband]

i feel responsible but she has options...right now it's like the end of the world...she is sobbing and if I say it's ok, she says I don't know when I will see my kids again...we are in the same house and we are it going anywhere...I ask her why does she have to go back? Or go there and come back? She just says she can't be here, will she change her mind? I know the weather is ****..but we had lots of good times over the last 5 months and saw our kids everyday...

 

Is she some sort of martyr? Does she want the kids to grow up and hate me??

She said there were times when she got depressed about being here that she hated me, but in reality she des not hate me and knows that ultimately it's her own actions which resulted in us being here...I told her I don't hate her and care about her..