This kind of 'psychiatric' problem

[spiderowl]

Has anyone had, or known anyone, who has had the problem of a delusion that has affected their life massively? Someone whose condition was diagnosed as psychiatric? Did they improve and, if so, what actually helped? Did they recover completely?

 

I have a friend whose life is falling apart and I really wish I could help. It would be useful to know what has helped in the past with these kinds of issues.

Edited August 13, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
fixed title~T

[basil67]

What type of psychiatric illness are we talking about?

[Redhead14]

Has anyone had, or known anyone, who has had the problem of a delusion that has affected their life massively? Someone whose condition was diagnosed as psychiatric? Did they improve and, if so, what actually helped? Did they recover completely?

 

I have a friend whose life is falling apart and I really wish I could help. It would be useful to know what has helped in the past with these kinds of issues.

 

If this person is truly delusional, there isn't anything you can or should to do try to help. This is way above your skill set. You can be supportive and encourage them to seek and dedicate themselves to professional help.

 

Recovery is dependent on the patient, whether or not there are underlying co-morbid conditions and there often are, and whether or not the patient can be brought to the point of understanding their conditions. Recovery can be a very, very long road.

[spiderowl]

What type of psychiatric illness are we talking about?

 

I am not sure what kind of psychiatric illness but it has been diagnosed as mixed with depression, anxiety and psychosomatic delusions.

 

By the way, friend is in hospital receiving psychiatric treatment but this has already failed once. I get the impression psychiatrists struggle to deal with this.

[Satu]

A true delusion: a fixed, and verifiably false belief, is generally considered to be a sign of a major psychosis. If that is what is afflicting your friend, there's nothing you can do to directly help with it.

 

Its important to differentiate between a true delusion, and what you might call 'funny ideas,' because they don't indicate illness, just eccentricity.

 

 

Take care.

[S2B]

Has anyone had, or known anyone, who has had the problem of a delusion that has affected their life massively? Someone whose condition was diagnosed as psychiatric? Did they improve and, if so, what actually helped? Did they recover completely?

 

I have a friend whose life is falling apart and I really wish I could help. It would be useful to know what has helped in the past with these kinds of issues.

 

Does the friend do any drugs?

 

Do they plan to have a trauma therapist help get past whatever is causing the issues?

 

There are times when a person has trauma so great that they tell themselves lies to be able to deal with that trauma - and ensuing delusions about what is real vs facing the trauma they are trying to avoid... It can be a vicious cycle if the patient isn't willing to get honest with themselves and deal with the reality they are trying to avoid.

 

And yes, I've seen it - to the extent that this one gal "seemed to" have multiple personalities in order to cope.

 

Her self destruction has been enormous in the past year...

 

I hope your friend can get some skilled help.

[spiderowl]

If this person is truly delusional, there isn't anything you can or should to do try to help. This is way above your skill set. You can be supportive and encourage them to seek and dedicate themselves to professional help.

 

Recovery is dependent on the patient, whether or not there are underlying co-morbid conditions and there often are, and whether or not the patient can be brought to the point of understanding their conditions. Recovery can be a very, very long road.

 

I appreciate your comments but I don't know what you mean about above my skill set. You don't know my skill set. Quite apart from which, the professionals have failed here which is why I am doing research to see what really has helped people.

[spiderowl]

Does the friend do any drugs?

 

Do they plan to have a trauma therapist help get past whatever is causing the issues?

 

There are times when a person has trauma so great that they tell themselves lies to be able to deal with that trauma - and ensuing delusions about what is real vs facing the trauma they are trying to avoid... It can be a vicious cycle if the patient isn't willing to get honest with themselves and deal with the reality they are trying to avoid.

 

And yes, I've seen it - to the extent that this one gal "seemed to" have multiple personalities in order to cope.

 

Her self destruction has been enormous in the past year...

 

I hope your friend can get some skilled help.

 

Thanks. No my friend does not do drugs and is not lying to herself in the way we would normally understand it. She clearly does not feel this is fake in any way and is incapacitated. The local psychiatric services do not offer trauma counselling. They offer very little other than drugs and 'rehabilitation' which has not worked in this case. This is the UK and mental health services are in a bad state due to the many cuts in funding and restucturing of services as a way of trying to deal with cuts.

 

It is a bit like multiple personalities at times. It's very difficult and one has to be tactful because, at the end of the day, there seems to be very little understanding about these conditions.

[Redhead14]

I appreciate your comments but I don't know what you mean about above my skill set. You don't know my skill set. Quite apart from which, the professionals have failed here which is why I am doing research to see what really has helped people.

 

It is very unlikely, given the fact that you are here asking for advice/information, that you have the ability to research this issue effectively enough to provide the kind of help that person needs.

 

Doing research on a very serious condition by a layman and going online and asking people on a dating site for advice about psychiatric conditions is like going to a vitamin shop for a cancer cure . . .

 

It's just not a good idea. There isn't enough information about the person for anyone here to even venture giving advice. The point is that you should not attempt to do anything different than being supportive to the person on the level of friendship and not attempt to be a psychiatrist or counselor for them. You may, in fact, get advice which is actually detrimental to the client.

[Redhead14]

Thanks. No my friend does not do drugs and is not lying to herself in the way we would normally understand it. She clearly does not feel this is fake in any way and is incapacitated. The local psychiatric services do not offer trauma counselling. They offer very little other than drugs and 'rehabilitation' which has not worked in this case. This is the UK and mental health services are in a bad state due to the many cuts in funding and restucturing of services as a way of trying to deal with cuts.

 

It is a bit like multiple personalities at times. It's very difficult and one has to be tactful because, at the end of the day, there seems to be very little understanding about these conditions.

 

The very best you can do is perhaps go to a counselor for yourself and get advice from them about how to proceed. They may be able to provide other resources and direction for you.

 

What you are describing is a very serious issue and you must be extremely careful because triggering would be a significant and dangerous thing to have to deal with if you should say or doing anything to trigger them. You may be playing with fire.

 

There is a ton of understanding about these conditions and first responders/entry level mental health providers can only do as much as they can to manage the symptoms that the client/patient presents with. They must stabilize first and the stabilization has to be maintained for a significant period of time before anyone can attempt to delve into the underlying causes and has to be done over an extended period of time. Patients are often resistant for a long, long time and the recovery process is lengthy. The patient did not become the way they are overnight and it will not be resolved overnight either. It takes years.

[spiderowl]

It is very unlikely, given the fact that you are here asking for advice/information, that you have the ability to research this issue effectively enough to provide the kind of help that person needs.

 

Doing research on a very serious condition by a layman and going online and asking people on a dating site for advice about psychiatric conditions is like going to a vitamin shop for a cancer cure . . .

 

It's just not a good idea. There isn't enough information about the person for anyone here to even venture giving advice. The point is that you should not attempt to do anything different than being supportive to the person on the level of friendship and not attempt to be a psychiatrist or counselor for them. You may, in fact, get advice which is actually detrimental to the client.

 

I am asking for ideas and insights because I know this is a little-understood area. I am perfectly capable of assessing whether people have given me good insights or not. There is nothing wrong with seeking new information. I know it is a very serious condition. Quite frankly, you should not be telling me what to do. I was seeking information not instruction as to what I personally should be doing in this situation.

 

Sorry if I seem a bit irritable about it. I am well aware of the seriousness of the situation and have been trying to get psychiatric help for my friend for a long time. When it was finally offered, it failed and my friend was pretty much sent packing by the local health service. I don't intend to do anything whatsoever to harm my friend. What makes you assume I know nothing about counselling? You are assuming a lot.

Edited August 12, 2016 by spiderowl

[spiderowl]

It is very unlikely, given the fact that you are here asking for advice/information, that you have the ability to research this issue effectively enough to provide the kind of help that person needs.

 

Doing research on a very serious condition by a layman and going online and asking people on a dating site for advice about psychiatric conditions is like going to a vitamin shop for a cancer cure . . .

 

It's just not a good idea. There isn't enough information about the person for anyone here to even venture giving advice. The point is that you should not attempt to do anything different than being supportive to the person on the level of friendship and not attempt to be a psychiatrist or counselor for them. You may, in fact, get advice which is actually detrimental to the client.

 

Who said this was a dating site? It is an interpersonal relationship centre and happens to have forums about health and wellbeing.

[Redhead14]

Who said this was a dating site? It is an interpersonal relationship centre and happens to have forums about health and wellbeing.

 

It is certainly not the venue for researching serious psychiatric conditions.

[Redhead14]

I am asking for ideas and insights because I know this is a little-understood area. I am perfectly capable of assessing whether people have given me good insights or not. There is nothing wrong with seeking new information. I know it is a very serious condition. Quite frankly, you should not be telling me what to do. I was seeking information not instruction as to what I personally should be doing in this situation.

 

Sorry if I seem a bit irritable about it. I am well aware of the seriousness of the situation and have been trying to get psychiatric help for my friend for a long time. When it was finally offered, it failed and my friend was pretty much sent packing by the local health service. I don't intend to do anything whatsoever to harm my friend. What makes you assume I know nothing about counselling? You are assuming a lot.

 

What makes you assume I know nothing about counselling? You are assuming a lot -- I never said you know nothing about counselling, however, it's difficult to believe you are experienced and qualified because a qualified professional wouldn't be here for this purpose.

 

I understand that the situation for your friend is frustrating and difficult for you in that you may feel somewhat helpless. And, I do know you do not intend any harm. But, you could do harm very innocently. I am as concerned for you as much as for your friend.

[spiderowl]

I was asking here because I thought it possible someone had come across something similar and found something that helped. I have actually done a lot of research on this subject online in the past year. I have looked at a large number of scientific papers and the evidence of benefit or otherwise of different approaches. It has become clear that these conditions can be very resistant and can last for years. My friends has already lost so much. I would not be a friend if I did not do my best to see what is out there. I have read mountains of books and papers on psychology over the years because I have an interest in it. Being a layperson does not mean you are an idiot or would do something harmful. Sometimes you can learn something new from a simple forum and there is no harm in asking. There are some very insightful people on these forums.

 

A qualified professional may well be re-hashing the same well-worn methods that do not appear to have been very successful so I do not immediately assume that qualifications give you something special. It very much depends on the person.

 

You mention the need to stabilise and then the long haul of treatment but that is not actually available locally. Psychiatric services are overwhelmed and eager to get people out of hospital and coping alone. That would be fine if the problem was solved but behavioural treatment to try to get my friend to 'ignore' it has not helped at all. If there was the kind of support you seem to think is available, then maybe I would not need to do research.

Edited August 13, 2016 by spiderowl

[SpiralOut]

So from what I understand, your friend is in the hospital right now and they are trying to diagnose her, correct? Do you know why it failed the first time? Did the treatments not work, or did they just not know what diagnosis to give her? If they are trying different treatments, it may take a long time for them to find the correct combination of meds. It's also common to misdiagnose someone, as most psychiatric illnesses have overlapping symptoms.

 

I used to date a schizophrenic man. I'm not sure if you could say he had delusions, but I did find that he told lies and that he seemed to fully and completely believe what he was saying. He honestly believed that he was telling the truth. I think he confused his thoughts with reality, even though he was medicated. It was mostly regarding minor things, though. His main issues were the paranoia, and I believe he had some visual hallucinations when his symptoms first appeared.

 

All I can say is continue to be there for her as a friend, and don't forget to look after yourself too.

Edited August 13, 2016 by SpiralOut

[todreaminblue]

i had a relationship with a level 4 schizophrenic and his delusions were ingrained.....they didnt budge on medication...they affected his life massively.....and they affected me.....i might have been able to handle the delusions..with him on medication and therapy and counselling.......but the delusions were exasperated by drug use.....he kept promising me he would give the drugs up and he didnt..i tried to help him....but he didnt have any intention of giving up drugs.......so i said enough.....

 

i was diagnosed years ago and i believe misdiagnosed as schizo affective.....i met this guy in a psyche ward under treatment myself..for depression...for that reason alone the relationship was likely doomed from the start...deb

[Timshel]

I am not sure what kind of psychiatric illness but it has been diagnosed as mixed with depression, anxiety and psychosomatic delusions.

 

By the way, friend is in hospital receiving psychiatric treatment but this has already failed once. I get the impression psychiatrists struggle to deal with this.

 

Spiderowl, in hospital, your friend is being treated on different levels.

 

First..a full psychological evaluation as well as a full physical/mental health history. This includes any past diagnosis and medication.

 

Second..your friend will have evaluation of their current disposition and more recent stress.

 

Third...the primary goal is to both evaluate a productive treatment plan while stabilizing medication therapy (this usually takes a while) and eventually a functional diagnosis.

 

This means that stabilizing medication while attempting to facilitate long term and effective treatment is the primary goal of hospitalization.

 

You are concerned, understandably. Redhead has given very sound advice and it is true that these circumstances are not communicated effectively over the internet.

 

As difficult as it is...let doctors help/stabilize your friend....and be a friend, which you clearly are and is all you can do.

[Redhead14]

I was asking here because I thought it possible someone had come across something similar and found something that helped. I have actually done a lot of research on this subject online in the past year. I have looked at a large number of scientific papers and the evidence of benefit or otherwise of different approaches. It has become clear that these conditions can be very resistant and can last for years. My friends has already lost so much. I would not be a friend if I did not do my best to see what is out there. I have read mountains of books and papers on psychology over the years because I have an interest in it. Being a layperson does not mean you are an idiot or would do something harmful. Sometimes you can learn something new from a simple forum and there is no harm in asking. There are some very insightful people on these forums.

 

A qualified professional may well be re-hashing the same well-worn methods that do not appear to have been very successful so I do not immediately assume that qualifications give you something special. It very much depends on the person.

 

You mention the need to stabilise and then the long haul of treatment but that is not actually available locally. Psychiatric services are overwhelmed and eager to get people out of hospital and coping alone. That would be fine if the problem was solved but behavioural treatment to try to get my friend to 'ignore' it has not helped at all. If there was the kind of support you seem to think is available, then maybe I would not need to do research.

 

CBT certainly would not be beneficial for clients who present with delusions. She cannot ignore HER reality. Cognitive ability is significantly impaired by the nature of the condition. Is there no one on one counseling available outside of the structured mental health system? Individual therapists? I realize the cost is significant and that insurance might be lacking, but if you could get some people together to raise some money for an outside therapist to sit with her for a few sessions at least, that therapist might be able to zero in a little bit better. The likelihood of co-morbidity is very high and so unraveling is going to be a challenge. If there are personality changes as well, sometimes an "alter" presents with symptoms that may actually be different from the core personality's issues. This is the reason that these things are so difficult to diagnose and treat. The client needs to be observed closely over quite a long period of time one on one. In a hospital environment, that is impossible.

 

It would help to gather as much personal history about your friend as you possibly can to uncover early childhood trauma especially and any trauma that the client has experienced later in life. If your friend has a history of any drug use/alcohol abuse as well. If your friend is delusional and lying, etc. it would be unlikely that mental health professionals are able to get a clear and complete history on her which also impedes progress with a therapist. Information about significant head trauma at any point in her life would be useful as well.

 

Ganser's Syndrome is something that could be a possibility, however, which is sort of about a client faking their illness and sometimes a client will have been doing that for a long time and at some point it becomes their reality. It's fairly rare, and most often found in cases where people are seeking some kind of personal gain -- sympathy/attention, financial gain, circumvent punishment for a crime, etc. , but every once in a while, it turns on them and they actually become ill . . . And, in any case, a person who presents with Ganser Syndrome is suffering from severe emotional dysfunction anyway. Alcoholism, head trauma or stroke also cause symptoms of Ganser. Symptoms also include affects that appear to be delusional and confused. And, the treatment plan would be entirely different.

 

I'm just pointing this out to drive home the point that the short term treatments she is receiving have very little chance of properly identifying the problem(s) because at "first glance" it resembles other things and depending on what symptoms are showing up at the time, it's a crap shoot really.

 

Raising money for a therapist might be something to consider. Does she have family and friends who would be willing to contribute? Are there therapists who might work on a sliding scale based on income?

[Redhead14]

Have there been comprehensive medical examinations performed to rule out physical causes?

 

What diagnosis(es) have been given? Schizophrenia, Delusional Disorder, Anti-social?

[spiderowl]

So from what I understand, your friend is in the hospital right now and they are trying to diagnose her, correct? Do you know why it failed the first time? Did the treatments not work, or did they just not know what diagnosis to give her? If they are trying different treatments, it may take a long time for them to find the correct combination of meds. It's also common to misdiagnose someone, as most psychiatric illnesses have overlapping symptoms.

 

I used to date a schizophrenic man. I'm not sure if you could say he had delusions, but I did find that he told lies and that he seemed to fully and completely believe what he was saying. He honestly believed that he was telling the truth. I think he confused his thoughts with reality, even though he was medicated. It was mostly regarding minor things, though. His main issues were the paranoia, and I believe he had some visual hallucinations when his symptoms first appeared.

 

All I can say is continue to be there for her as a friend, and don't forget to look after yourself too.

 

Yes, my friend is back in the hospital. I think they think they know what is wrong as they have said delusions. They are trying medications, some of which are same as ones they tried before.

 

I don't know why it failed the first time. I presume delusions are hard to deal with. From what I've read online, they can be very resistant. There is also the issue of whether it is a delusion or not as my friend has physical symptoms. I am assuming medical experts can tell whether symptoms can be caused by a particular physical disease or not. I also think that the symptoms are strange enough and have progressed rapidly enough to be in the 'very odd' category.

 

I am hoping treatment will work but I am conscious that my friend has lost everything - professional job, friends (who have become stressed over this too), and will possibly lose home. This illness has had an enormous impact and the future is looking bleak for my friend. Any physical illness that resulted in such losses would be treated as an urgent priority and I do not feel this happened at all. It took so long to get friend help with this and then they just seemed to want friend out of hospital as fast as possible. People with mental illnesses are not respected at all it seems.

[spiderowl]

i had a relationship with a level 4 schizophrenic and his delusions were ingrained.....they didnt budge on medication...they affected his life massively.....and they affected me.....i might have been able to handle the delusions..with him on medication and therapy and counselling.......but the delusions were exasperated by drug use.....he kept promising me he would give the drugs up and he didnt..i tried to help him....but he didnt have any intention of giving up drugs.......so i said enough.....

 

i was diagnosed years ago and i believe misdiagnosed as schizo affective.....i met this guy in a psyche ward under treatment myself..for depression...for that reason alone the relationship was likely doomed from the start...deb

 

Thanks for your thoughts on delusions Deb. I'm sorry things went that way for you. I hope you have moved on and are happier now.

[spiderowl]

Spiderowl, in hospital, your friend is being treated on different levels.

 

First..a full psychological evaluation as well as a full physical/mental health history. This includes any past diagnosis and medication.

 

Second..your friend will have evaluation of their current disposition and more recent stress.

 

Third...the primary goal is to both evaluate a productive treatment plan while stabilizing medication therapy (this usually takes a while) and eventually a functional diagnosis.

 

This means that stabilizing medication while attempting to facilitate long term and effective treatment is the primary goal of hospitalization.

 

You are concerned, understandably. Redhead has given very sound advice and it is true that these circumstances are not communicated effectively over the internet.

 

As difficult as it is...let doctors help/stabilize your friend....and be a friend, which you clearly are and is all you can do.

 

I appreciate what you say Timshel. That is certainly what ideally would be happening. It may be happening. Maybe this time they have realised this is not an easy case and that rehabilitation alone is not sufficient, that more in-depth therapy is needed, but what a waste of a life not doing this in the first place. Mental health services in the UK are a Cinderella service. I also think that there has not been enough research and advance in this area, not sure why this has been the case, and that treatments are more designed to get the patient 'behaving' and out of hospital than to really make them better and happier.

 

My friend's initial treatment seemed to be aimed at giving drugs and rehabilitation. I saw no evidence any psychotherapy. Staff mainly stayed in their staff rooms and patients wandered around with occasional interactions with staff if patients sought the staff out. The facilities were poor - one bathroom for 20 patients? For security reasons, all sorts of things were confiscated and patients had to ask to have the shower unlocked for them. While I can understand the security reasons, on the other hand patients were scared by the behaviour of other patients and yet staff did not see the need to offer them a safer place. Staff seemed to think cameras in rooms were sufficient - would any of us think that?

 

The treatment seemed medication based and personal interactions seemed entirely secondary. This does not seem humane or appropriate.

Edited August 13, 2016 by spiderowl

[Timshel]

Ok, so sorry for this. It isn't always Cinderella here either, trust me. You seem as on top of it as you could or should be.

 

I hope that your friend does receive the treatment she needs.

I hope that you are looking over your self...there is a limit to what you or any person is able to do.

If you feel she is getting the best possible and that you, as her friend, are giving what is reasonable....please do not be troubled.

[spiderowl]

Have there been comprehensive medical examinations performed to rule out physical causes?

 

What diagnosis(es) have been given? Schizophrenia, Delusional Disorder, Anti-social?

 

Thank you Redhead, I can see that you understand what is involved. I know a lot about my friend because we spent a lot of time together when the illness first started and my friend stayed with me for what I thought would be a short-term patch of support while going through anxiety. It developed into more bizarre things. My friend had been trying to get help from local mental health services for months and what friend got was long waits for appointments which turned out to be triage, more long waits for groups to help with stress which turned out to be lectures on not drinking and on doing more exercise. My friend is highly intelligent and articulate (think Professor level). Eventually friend was offered CBT (months later) by which time anxiety was through the roof. Friend would not take meds, was not eating properly, avoiding various things (daren't say too much here as would identify) and became slowly incapable of doing simplest things for self.

 

Friend went to A&E on more than one occasion, visited doctors, paid for treatment with alternative therapists to help relieve symptoms (and have someone to talk to about worries no doubt) and had to do all this because there was nothing else available. I knew friend had been paying for treatments for quite a while but there was no alternative and it cost a fortune.

 

Eventually other friends and I ran out of mental resources to help and realised we could not (other than being supportive) and the psychiatric crisis people got involved (but only after significant pressure and insistence there was a problem). Even then, it was slow. Hospital approach was medication based and treating my friend in patronising way, telling friend they didn't have a problem and to be positive and make an effort. Therapy was based on getting friend to do things had been avoiding. Things could have been so much better but I appreciate they are dealing with some very difficult and sometimes dangerous people.

 

I completely agree that behavioural therapy was not appopriate, except to help maintain mobility and eating which is course is vital.

Edited August 13, 2016 by spiderowl