Wife was cheating. Second chance or not?

[aliveagain]

My take is that guy one is the cheating wife's affair partner, guy one shares his girlfriend with his buddies because he doesn't care about her enough to leave his wife for her. I wonder if guy one is the one staying with his wife?

[OneLov]

The worst part about this, is if he lives in a "no-fault" divorce state, he will be financially bankrupted by all the alimony, child support, etc he will owe her for doing nothing wrong...

 

This sort of thing is why people don't get married anymore

 

Based on his choice of words, I don't think he's from the US.

 

But please understand that divorce and the division of marital assets are two separate issues. If you live in one of the nine community property states, then all property acquired during marriage is presumed to be owned 50/50. See the previous principal owners of the LA Dodgers (McCourt's divorce).

 

But the majority of states use equitable distribution (ED) as the standard when dividing marital assets. ED is NOT 50/50; it's a rough congruency of justice and fair dealings.

[JoeSmith357-1]

Based on his choice of words, I don't think he's from the US.

 

But please understand that divorce and the division of marital assets are two separate issues. If you live in one of the nine community property states, then all property acquired during marriage is presumed to be owned 50/50. See the previous principal owners of the LA Dodgers (McCourt's divorce).

 

But the majority of states use equitable distribution (ED) as the standard when dividing marital assets. ED is NOT 50/50; it's a rough congruency of justice and fair dealings.

 

What I meant was "no fault" states, which the MAJORITY of states are, divorce is granted regardless of reason (in this case, infidelity), and that is NOT taken into account when distribution of assets happens and things like alimony and child support are set.

 

And having been together 20 years and having 5 kids, he's going to be taken to the cleaners most likely... for having done nothing wrong. It's just so jacked up.

 

It sounds like one or all of the guys who was gangbanging her on the reg is going to be also going through the same thing too, so at least she can't have her cake and eat it too, or maybe they will all get together and be FWB 4 life, while the OP subsidizes it...

[Friskyone4u]

Whispers,

 

You have gotten some pretty good advice, and YES, your decision is the only one that counts, and it is obvious you want to stay with your wife.

 

There is NOTHING wrong with that at all as long as you have the total truth, but like some have said you are still in the shock and grief stage and you have to understand that this affair of hers was not some ONS and you are looking at probably 2-5 years of busting your chops to work this out. And that is if she continues to do everything right.

 

Right now, she has been caught, and all this remorse is probably a lot in the self preservation mode. That is not unique.!

 

You stated the suggestions I gave you were good. Do them because before you commit to anything you need to do EVERYTHING you can to insure you are making an informed decision. Understand this

(1) her right to privacy went out the window when she banged other men for two years. You should not feel at all guilty DEMANDING total transparency, and accountability for her whereabouts. She should not want to be ten minutes late from coming home from anywhere without telling you why. And she should NOT be looking at that as punishment or controlling. SHE SHOULD WANT TO MAKE YOU FEEL SAFE.

(2) all the OM are blocked. Great. There are numerous ways for them to continue to try to reach out to her. Her outside activities should stop if you are not involved.

(3) DO THE POLYGRAPH> And forget all the advice on accuracy or court of law. Many times they agree to do it actually hoping the offer will make you change your mind. And once you schedule it do not cancel it no matter what else she tells you. But she needs to understand that this test does not tell you how much she wants to stay married or loves you. it only measures truth or deception. And you need truth so tell her you need to know from her if there is any more that you do not already know.

 

As far as IC. You are going to need it more than her. She had a blast and got laid every Friday night by multiple men. YOU CANNOT COMPETE with that, and your problem is going to be to keep that out of your mind. There is no way the husband can ever compete with the affair sex, and hers was off the charts. No MC until she proves herself for a while and you are convinced you are headed where you want to go.

 

Whispers, the VAR in her car will probably tell you everything you want to know in a very short time. She dumped the one girlfriend that knew, or so she says, but you will find out if that is truthful and you will find out if she is talking to any other men that she may have met on a friday night at the bowling alley that you may not know about. Remember, you caught these three. Take my word for it, she interacted with other men drinking and bowling every Friday night. And by the way, that should be one of the questions on the polygraph, to make sure you just do not have the tip of the ice berg. A woman who is going to have group sex regularly is certainly capable of banging guys outside the group.

 

You are in for a long journey my friend. You cannot snoop forever, but understand all this electronic crap makes it easier to cheat but it also is how most of them get caught. So i suggest you go into full detective mode for a while.

 

DENIAL and ACCEPTANCE are your worst enemies right now.

[aileD]

 

I would bet money that there are video's of their get together's out there. Most people have camera's on their phones. Something will surface sooner or later.

 

Tumblr is famous for stuff like this

[salparadise]

Careless Whispers, I am sorry for the ordeal. Nobody deserves this kind of anguish. I am not going to prosthelytize because I see that you are contemplative and aware, and perfectly capable of making the right decision for you.

 

I'm just adding another vote against staying for the kids sake. I don't know where you are or what the laws there are, but in most places the days of the woman getting full custody by default and the man getting visitation only are history. I got divorced in my 50s with a young teenage daughter and I got 50/50 (and it wasn't much of a struggle either). My daughter did just fine and is kicking butt these days.

 

If you feel that you'll never be able to trust, forgive and reestablish a loving, connected relationship then I believe you should do what's best for you and your emotional wellbeing. Establishing a good life for yourself is part of doing what's best for the kids too.

 

Yes, they need their father but they also need home(s) without all of this tension. In fact, I now realize that getting divorced enabled me to develop a relationship with my daughter that I could never have had living under the same roof with my ex-wife. We tried that for awhile and it was not good. My relationship with my daughter was moderated by my controlling ex. Having my own time with her was key and something of a revelation in terms of how subtle but detrimental the ex's influence was.

 

Just wanted to provide that as an alternate perspective.

[harrybrown]

has she given you the timeline and diary of the affairs?

 

Has she told you why and how will she be satisfied by one man, when she had three at once?

 

Has she told you everything about all the others? Did she ever think about the kids or you while she was having her fun?

 

 

Did she do things for them that she has not done for you? like having a threesome with a hooker?

 

I do not see how she could do this to you for two years!.

 

How old are the kids? How is she going to make this up to you?

[doyathinkso]

Wife was cheating. Second chance or not?

 

 

 

 

 

NOT!

[understand50]

OK,

 

At this point we need to respect the OP decision to reconcile, and try and give him advise on doing so. He may change his mind, but just pointing out divorce, is not working. In any case, he is going to give it a shot. Some here have successfully reconciled past many issues. I would say this one is one of the badder situations, but in the end it is up to the OP to deride.

 

He may decide, after trying, that he just cannot do this, but we need to give him space to come to this conclusion. Also, we do not know his life with his WS, before they were married, they could have been into this life style, and what would seem egregious to you or I, is not on the same level for him or his wife.

 

We have folks on LS with open marriages and who go swinging. Now, the OP thought they were exclusive, so this is a betrayal, he just may not see the sex she had in the same light as us. This is not to make light, or not see this as huge betrayal.

 

Careless Whispers

 

As you are leaning at this time for reconciliation, please read up on what she needs to do and what you need to do to try and make this work. If later you decide to divorce, there is resources there as well. In any case, this is you decision, and I wish you luck. My myself, I would consider, my kids, and yes, how much I loved my wife, going in to what I was able to accept, and forgive. Do not know, if I could reconcile after something like this, but I am not you. Remember, make the best decision you can under the circumstances at hand.

 

I wish you luck.

[Friskyone4u]

Understand 50

 

You seem to have decided for him that he is going to reconcile with no consequences of safeguards for OP because you keep telling everyone to stop offering him advice that will keep him safe

 

He has not stat d he is reconciling regardless of what else he finds out

 

So take your own advice and let him decide

[sidney2718]

Well this is what I feel but I don't seem to have much support on my side for feeling that way.

 

But don't confuse acknowledgment that she is trying as any sort of forgiveness, I am nowhere near that stage yet.

 

I just feel that if (and I know it's a big if) she is really trying, if she is really remorseful, if she really wants to make a go of us then why not let it play out and see what happens? She doesn't deserve a free pass and what happened certainly requires some sort of punishment but I still don't believe walking away is the correct punishment while there is a glimmer of hope.

 

Your other advice re dating is welcomed. Thank you for that. Some good ideas.

 

For some reason divorce is frequently pushed as the answer to infidelity. Of course it can be the answer, but it isn't always. Reconciliation is hard, but if you can pull it off it would be very good.

 

I assume that you and your wife had a good relationship before the giant affair started. If so you have something to aim for.

 

And by the way she's not getting a free pass. It is perfectly clear to her that you could up and leave at any time. It is up to you, not up to her, so it is serious psychic punishment.

 

Take your time. See how things develop. Let he know that you appreciate her effort to save your marriage, but you need not promise not to leave. That decision will come in time.

[LifesontheUp]

As like anyone else I'm sorry for what you are going through.

 

What I was wondering is do you think its possible that you and your wife could live together and just co parent? Do you think such an option is ok for your kids?

 

Also if you do try and reconcile do you 5think you will ever be enough for your wife? I ask because I am not sure that you are. I dont mean to upset you but this isn't a one time deal with another man this goes deeper. These were group meets and its clear she was the queen of it all and enjoyed it. If she didn't she would have ended it. I find it very sad

Edited August 16, 2016 by LifesontheUp

[harrybrown]

It will be very difficult for her to end her orgies.

 

She may have taken it underground.

 

Hope she will do something right by you.

 

She can't undo this mess.

 

Sorry for you and your kids. Hope the POSOM get wants coming to them.

[drifter777]

 

I know this might sound weird, unhealthy even, but I’m more angry about the lies and deception than I am about the sex. That does not mean that I excuse it although I can understand why people might think I am saying that. That may change at some stage but right now it doesn’t matter that it was 3 guys and not one.

 

A couple things: For a man, when the sex (especially a gang-bang) is not the overwhelming component of the cheating then he has a realistic chance to reconcile.

 

BUT: you are terrified that those close to you will find out what she did. That's not all about being ignorant of what she did - it's because you know how harshly she will be judged for not just cheating but for being the only woman in a group-sex thing. You also qualified that the gang-bang thing - the sex - might bother you later on down the road. To me this is very telling that the sexual component is significant and is likely to become more so as time goes on. Trust me, the vision of her with 3 guys will NEVER leave your mind. Unless that actually turns you on a little bit it could be the emotional wound that ends up destroying your marriage.

 

Finally, what country do you live in? Here in the US joint custody is the norm as long as one of the parents is not proven to be physically abusive. You work out a schedule and you get equal custody and there is no child support. If you cannot get equal custody you must remember that you can be a great father whether you live with their mother or not. It's love and support that kids need and I'm willing to bet you will pack more of that into a 3-day weekend than you would if you lived with them. It's important that you understand the importance of your own mental health to your children and their sense of love and security. When kids sense a negative tension between mom and dad they can only blame themselves. Their logic is "it has to be my fault because mom & dad are my mom & dad".

[The_Onceler]

Here in the US joint custody is the norm as long as one of the parents is not proven to be physically abusive. You work out a schedule and you get equal custody and there is no child support.

 

I don't know about Seattle, but where I live on the east coast, child support is a mandatory component of shared custody, even equally shared custody. It depends primarily upon the incomes of the two parents, and how far apart they are. My STBX and I have agreed to split custody 50/50. According to our state laws, I will have to pay her about a grand per month.

 

Just wanted to clarify that point...

[The_Onceler]

You also qualified that the gang-bang thing - the sex - might bother you later on down the road. To me this is very telling that the sexual component is significant and is likely to become more so as time goes on. Trust me, the vision of her with 3 guys will NEVER leave your mind. Unless that actually turns you on a little bit it could be the emotional wound that ends up destroying your marriage.

 

Yes.

 

For me, a far less difficult situation nearly drove me insane. It may be that you can get past the MANNER of the infidelity, but if so, you are a far stronger man than I am.

 

I do hope you find your way, for you and your children.

[NTV]

Now you know that you are equal to or greater than the sexual pleasure derived from 1 to 2 dudes.

 

 

I mean, for me my wife cheated with one dude first, and then another dude. So sexually, I'm only equal to one. If that. If it takes 3 dudes to match you, well, then at least you know you don't anything there to worry about.

 

 

Just trying to look on the bright side.

[drifter777]

I don't know about Seattle, but where I live on the east coast, child support is a mandatory component of shared custody, even equally shared custody. It depends primarily upon the incomes of the two parents, and how far apart they are. My STBX and I have agreed to split custody 50/50. According to our state laws, I will have to pay her about a grand per month.

 

Just wanted to clarify that point...

Yes, I shouldn't assume how things are in other states. Certainly it's less when you are paying the other spouse for less than full custody. What do you think you'd be paying if she had full custody?

[drifter777]

Yes.

 

For me, a far less difficult situation nearly drove me insane. It may be that you can get past the MANNER of the infidelity, but if so, you are a far stronger man than I am.

 

I do hope you find your way, for you and your children.

Many others will disagree and say something like "why is a gang-bang any worse than just one guy? Cheating is cheating" but I don't think many of those saying this will be BH's. For most of us EVERYTHING about the sex is important because we have to know just what we are trying to accept.

[drifter777]

I think you're going to try to reconcile, not matter what anyone here says. My wife did some similar heinous sh*t and I also tried to reconcile. There's a very powerful combination of fears at play: fear of people knowing, fear of being alone, fear of losing your nuclear family, fear of losing your kids...

 

It creates a perfect storm where you try to figure out if you can choke this thing down.

 

Take note that the first stage of grief is denial, and the last is acceptance. And it's not denial that the event(s) took place; it's denial of the "impact" of what has just happened to you. That's evidenced by your statement that "it's not so much the sex" that's getting to you. Your mind has decided to put that issue on the back burner because you simply can't process this much hurt all at once. And if you did, you know you would just run. Right now you're too afraid of the consequences of running. That seems like a guaranteed loss, right? So you find rationalizations to stay.

 

What happened with me is that my wife also played the remorse card pretty heavily. Most of them do and they also have fears of losing their family, etc.. And so I tried to choke it down. Eventually I came to accept that her remorse was real and I began to feel safe that my marriage wasn't automatically going to end. That's when the ANGER kicked in. It's like a switch was flipped that I no longer had to be afraid to upset everything and I suddenly realized, "Hey, you know, I really don't appreciate that this has happened. In fact, I'm pretty pissed that I'm going to be dealing with these mental images of you with three guys..."

I'm here to tell you that that phase can be very unexpected and very damaging, to you. I started to become someone I wasn't. And it was because I was asking myself to accept something to no one should have to accept.

 

I think you're probably just going to have to experience it for yourself. But one thing I would add is that there is life after a divorce. While many courts do not care about infidelity, there is also an increasing trend towards equal custody rights for men. I ended up with 50/50 custody of my kids. They spend 3-4 days with her and then 3-4 days with me. We have agreements about vacations, holidays, etc.. We live about 25-30 minutes apart. I keep in touch with the kids via facetime or text when they're on her days. We sometimes celebrate things on something other than the actual day (birthday party a few days in advance, etc) but for the most part, it's a very normal life and I'm a very involved Dad. Beyond that, the kids are fine and well-adjusted.

 

The benefit for me (and perhaps all of us) is that I didn't have to remain in that torturous situation. I moved on and started, what I call, my second life. And it's not bad. It can be done, even with kids.

 

My view is that at the moment you're standing in the rubble of the nuke that your wife dropped on the marriage. And you feel like your choices are to either leave your wife and kids and life that you've built in the huge mess or to stay and start piecing things back together. Your instinct (or fears) have driven you to stay and try. And frankly, I get it 'cause I've been there. But I think you're in denial about how big this pile of rubble is and how impossible this task might be and how continuing to try is going to alter who you are. Feeling like you have no choice but to stay, you may even entertain crazy options, like having your own affair to help balance the scales and reduce your anger. It's the path to crazy town, my friend. Be careful how much you take on, feeling like it is the noble thing to do and thinking the only other choice is to lose everything.

 

My point here is that you do have other reasonable alternatives. Meet with an attorney and fully investigate them. Have an honest but non-threatening discussion with your wife about an amiable divorce that prioritizes the kids having routine access to both parents. You may find it's best for you, your wife, and your kids for them to be raised in two separate but happy households rather than one unhappy one.

 

Thanks for sharing BetrayedH.

 

Careless: Please read this BetrayedH's post a couple times and then bookmark it for later reference.

 

I "worked" with BetrayedH a lot back when he first discovered his WW cheating and came here for help. Like all of us BS's - he was devastated and was in an emotional state of shock. He desperately wanted his pain to stop and to just get back to his life the way it used to be. To use your words, he wanted to hug and kiss her and tell her they would get through this. He minimized & rationalized her cheating for weeks. But he was discovering little facts that his WW conveniently omitted from her story and BH would reel from it a bit but then go right back to defending her because, as he said many times, "she's doing all the right things" with regard to reconciliation.

 

I could just feel in his posts that he was rug-sweeping. He was bound and determined to make all of this go away and get everything back to normal. You see, he was in denial - where you refuse to admit to yourself that you are devastated by what she did AND you know, deep in your heart, that you will never forgive her for this horrible betrayal. He eventually got there courtesy of his WW's trickle-truths. Little by little his natural emotional defense mechanism - denial - began to erode and he had to start facing the reality of the whole sordid mess. From there it was only a week or two before his marriage crumbled completely.

 

Is this you?

 

Of the hundreds of affair story's I've read over the years this one is one of the most disgusting. I mean, men find out the kids are not theirs, WW's screw their husbands brother and/or his best friend. WW's are caught by their BH in bed with the other guy or even tripping over her screwing her AP on the ground 5 feet from the tent they were sleeping in on a camping trip. This one falls directly into that category because the circumstances are such that what she did is going to slap you in the face - on a regular basis - for the rest of your life. And the shame you feel for her because of the filthy, wanton act she committed will only grow - and that will feed the shame you feel for not divorcing her.

 

I don't think you are ready to accept much of what I'm telling you at this time. Like most men, you are emotionally crushed and as confused as you ever have been in your life. You need to talk with someone who can help you sort out your emotions - if you don't have an IC please find one.

Edited August 16, 2016 by drifter777

[Friskyone4u]

Perfectly said by "Drifter" above.

 

This was NOT a one time gang bang even. It was ongoing over a LONG time.

 

You need a period to see if you get out of htis denial stage before you make any serious decisions.

 

And you need to remember what would still be going on had the OBS not caught them and informed you.

[Darren Steez]

Thing is respect.

 

Re:The amount of guys *apparently a massive trigger for folks*

 

There comes a point where she thought it over, maybe it was a spur of the moment decision, maybe she went home, thought long and hard over it while making dinner, turned around in bed and watched OP as he slept, pondering whether she should do it or not.

 

Maybe it started out with one guy, then the others got involved, but here's the thing, even if it was a need she had, in her head it's not something she could just block off. She thought about it at home, shopping, whilst she was with OP. To put herself in that situation time and time again she had to have said "Forget OP I'm doing this"

 

Forget about the sorry I've been caught because you'd be none the wiser had she not been caught and she'd still be doing it.

 

Prostitutes? The thought of bringing home disease.

 

Respect. Where was her respect for you?

 

And do you honestly think she'd respect you if you took her back? Think about it and the roles were reversed yes there might be love, history etc etc but do you think had you participated in group sex that your wife would RESPECT you?

 

Her respect for you, but more importantly respect of self. For me the biggest thing is if the other wife hadn't done her work, she would still be doing this.

 

No respect for you my friend.

[Careless Whispers]

CW, the people her are worried for you and we get invested. Please forgive us. So many of us have been through some horrible things and even for use you story is one of the worst.

 

There is nothing to forgive. I know I will face negative comments, in fact I expect and welcome them. I say that because I want to have my beliefs challenged so I can be sure once I make a decision that at the very least it will be well thought out.

 

I just thought one poster that demanded an answer was unwarranted. The post was still read and thought about, just not replied to.

[Careless Whispers]

Whispers, you mention that sexual activity only occurred when guy 1 was around. Guy 2, guy 3 and the prostitute only took part when guy 1 was there, correct?

If so it sounds like guy 1 was the driving force behind all of this.

 

That's pretty much it. I don't think it really matters how though, just that it did.

 

But for what it's worth. Guy 1 who is much younger was having marriage issues. My wife comforted him and over a period of weeks it went too far. Then it continued. Guy 2 who is the same age as my wife suspected something and followed them one night. Instead of calling them out he wanted to join and did. Guy 3 didn't become involved until ages later and apparently was reluctant as was my wife to have him join but he did anyway and she let him. It all happened at either Guy 1's place of when they were away on trips for tournaments.

 

It's pretty disgusting when you write it down raw like that. I actually "understand" what happened with Guy 1. My wife is a caring person so I can see how it would happen. NOT that I approve of course. But letting Guy 2 join and then also Guy 3 who she didn't even really want just makes me want to cry.

[Careless Whispers]

Based on his choice of words, I don't think he's from the US.

 

I'm in Australia.