Wife was cheating. Second chance or not?

[Careless Whispers]

How old are the kids?

 

14yo Boy

12yo Boy

10yo Boy

4yo Twin Girls

[GoldenR]

I really feel for you, brother. I've been cheated on way to many times, but I'd still take all of those incidents over your one. I've thought about how I'd feel if my wife did the same...It would be hard to feel anything other than sadness. I'll keep you in my prayers.

[Phoenician]

CW , I am really sorry for what you have been through .

 

From a person who suffered in a rotten marriage but betrayal is not an issue , I can say that emotional stress and anger destroys life .

 

I admire your commitment to your family .

 

I advise you at this stage to do the following .

 

-convince her that she should sacrifice her welfare for the family/kids .

-after that tell her that you want a commitment in writting that you will get the custody of the kids if she decides one day to go .

 

-after that enforce on her to be a stay home wife , where she will have to dedicate all her time to you and kids ; and establish a new system where you can punish her for doing mistakes within the frame work of legal/ethical boundaries.

 

 

if she agrees , there is hope that she loves her family , if she doesn't , prepare yourself for the worse .

 

 

good luck man ,

 

you seem to be a great person ,

 

God , life , karma or whatever will giove you what you deserve .

[salparadise]

This was NOT a one time gang gang even. It was ongoing over a LONG time.

 

You need a period to see if you get out of htis denial stage before you make any serious decisions.

 

And you need to remember what would still be going on had the OBS not caught them and informed you.

 

Yup. I don't see how the gang bang aspect could be a non-factor. It crosses a line that most people never cross except by way of fantasy, and it approaches the extent of a deviance or paraphilia. In traditional relationships exclusivity is paramount. We conceptualize our wives as wholesome, and trust that she has no appetite for random, anonymous sex wherever, whenever she finds opportunity.

 

The typical affair with another man hurts because she switched her allegiance away from us to another person, but it doesn't fundamentally change our concept of her as a normal person with conventional sexual appetite based on affection and attraction. But when we learn that she enjoys being the guest of honor at a gang-bang, well, that's different. It crosses a significant boundary and changes the conceptualization to that of wanton, disinhibited, licentious.

 

My guess is that OP's dismay and shock is different than the betrayal associated with a typical affair and that he's in denial as to the nature of it. For this aspect to be no big deal would require that he already be desensitized, perhaps via having participated in the swinger lifestyle or having been exposed to it somehow. I've seen nothing in this thread pointing to that.

[salparadise]

It's pretty disgusting when you write it down raw like that. I actually "understand" what happened with Guy 1. My wife is a caring person so I can see how it would happen. NOT that I approve of course. But letting Guy 2 join and then also Guy 3 who she didn't even really want just makes me want to cry.

 

Yes, exactly. The fog is lifting.

[JoeSmith357-1]

I don't see how you could stay with her at this point, knowing what you know.

 

I have been cheated on a few times. I'm going through one right now where I actually kicked her out for a few weeks and we are going through the R. It wasn't even physical, just an EA. If I had concrete evidence it had gone PA, I would close the door for good.

 

But I found myself trying to justify or rationalize her actions. She was saying / doing all the right things afterwards to get back with me. Maybe I was weak, but I am trying to make it work.

 

My LT GF of 3+ years whom I had been living with for a couple of those, I caught sexting, sending nudes, with some ex. And it emotionally devastated me.

 

But I cannot see any circumstance where I could even look at her again, let alone bang her if I knew she was the willing participant of a weekly gangbang session for several years.

 

Someone else said this was one of the most shocking A's they had seen here or even heard about, I tend to agree.

 

I don't think you can come back from this.

[understand50]

There is nothing to forgive. I know I will face negative comments, in fact I expect and welcome them. I say that because I want to have my beliefs challenged so I can be sure once I make a decision that at the very least it will be well thought out.

 

I just thought one poster that demanded an answer was unwarranted. The post was still read and thought about, just not replied to.

 

CW,

 

Take what you need from Love Shack. Yes, there will be a never ending drum beat for divorce. Many will not understand why, but ask yourself, who's life is it? It is up to you if you can forgive her enough to give her a second chance. What we may think collectively, is no real consequence. Some of us here have reconciled, and can give advise on what we did, from our point of view. Several are exWS spouses, and can also give their take. In the end, it was our marriages and life we worked on, and while we may have some good things to offer, you must decide if they are relevant and apply them if you can or want to.

 

What do you need now? I think your decision to stay has been challenged, so we have that down, but any specific things, or actions that you are taking what would you like to discuss?

 

My myself, after I found out about my wife overspending, (not a trivial amount, and involving our retirement account) her earlier behavior, (ONS) came back as a memory to push me to divorce. Came close, but after I decided, I put in place two things. One, we "dated" again to try and reconnect, past just having Sex, and two we set up a time to really talk together, and in a way where we did not fight, or get angry. I also kept in mind, that nether of us could live with each other if we were at each other throats all the time. So we did not "rug sweep" but worked to carve out time for just day to day living with out fighting. I do not know if this will help, or what other things are going on in YOUR marriage besides her infidelity, but trying to work them out does not make you a weak man.

 

I stated, as has others, that this is really hard work. Hardest part is finding what works for you, your wife and then your family. If you believe in redemption, and she can be remorseful, and you can forgive, then this is doable. How you get to that place is a unique journey for you to discover. While many will not respected your decision, the great thing about LS, is we are just this, we are not really there, and we depend on what you wright.

 

Reconcile if you want to, and be firm in your decision. You are your family are all that counts. Later, if you find you cannot live with this, then change, but be assured, that trying was a good thing, and a mark of a strong man.

 

As always I wish you luck....

[aliveagain]

That's pretty much it. I don't think it really matters how though, just that it did.

 

But for what it's worth. Guy 1 who is much younger was having marriage issues. My wife comforted him and over a period of weeks it went too far. Then it continued. Guy 2 who is the same age as my wife suspected something and followed them one night. Instead of calling them out he wanted to join and did. Guy 3 didn't become involved until ages later and apparently was reluctant as was my wife to have him join but he did anyway and she let him. It all happened at either Guy 1's place of when they were away on trips for tournaments.

 

It's pretty disgusting when you write it down raw like that. I actually "understand" what happened with Guy 1. My wife is a caring person so I can see how it would happen. NOT that I approve of course. But letting Guy 2 join and then also Guy 3 who she didn't even really want just makes me want to cry.

 

Friend, all she had to do was say no, she didn't but instead allowed it to escalate over the two years until she was caught by a PI. She would still be at it had the other betrayed wife not suspected her husband of infidelity. Let us not forget the hooker, she was all in for that too. How does your wife explain her participation and for such a long period of time? This all took place in one of their homes(all married men) which means she had her affair with man number one while the others were there. Doesn't sound like she had any problem banging guy one in front of or with the knowledge of the others. What does that say about her respect for you, she didn't try to keep this a secret and in fact included them in her affair. How did she keep this up and hide it from you for all these years? She even involved you buy including you in their social events, wonder what was going through her mind when she had the four of you in a room together? My ex had a two year affair and I thought her getting pregnant by her lover and convincing me he was my child was bad. Your children will always be your children no matter what you decide.

 

Just had to ask, was any of her behaviour ever acceptable in the past? Did you experiment with other people before you married her?

Edited August 17, 2016 by aliveagain

[BluesPower]

Careless, Could you give us some information that so far has not been alluded to? Maybe so we could understand better?

 

Did you and your wife explore swinging or threesomes before you were married?

 

How has your wife been acting?

 

She had a 2 year affair that would still be going on, including group sex with three man and at least one GF and a Hooker, if one of the BS's did not catch them and tell you? And, when this started you guys had 2 YO twins? Is that all correct?

 

I would really like to know how you are feeling right now if you have time to wright.

[Steen719]

Could it be that the OP's acceptance (or the seeming to accept more willingly than some of us might) of the multi-partner scene is that in the first post, he alluded to the fact that they did things they probably shouldn't have? Maybe multiple sex partners was part of that and so what has really upset him more was the betrayal that she did not tell him - the secrets, deception, than the actual sex acts. Idk - my 2 cents.

 

5 kids, all young...that is tough. You have a tough road ahead, no matter what. Sorry, Whispers, what a sad story.

[sandylee1]

If I did what your wife did and my husband didn't leave me, I'd think there's nothing I could do, that would make him leave me.

I'd think he loved me so much I could get away with murder.

 

This is such a high level of disrespect and slu**y behaviour that will be a living nightmare through.

 

As much as the courts may favour mothers, if I were you I'd be insistent on joint custody and if she refused, I would no longer keep what she did a secret. In fact, that should get you more than joint custody. I don't see why I should see my kids less than 50%of the time, when my spouse has messed up in a very big way.

 

An affair with one person is bad. But this just makes the person seem like a tramp. Surely she'd agree to avoid that getting out to anyone.

[harrybrown]

if she did not get caught, this would still be going on.

 

Have you asked her for a complete timeline of the A and for a post nup agreement?

 

How will she make this up to you?

 

You are not even plan B. She can't quit her gangbangs and be satisfied by one man.

 

Hope you do get to tell the family and let them know. You need some support.

 

How could she ever love you, if she treated you this bad?

 

How does she justify her behavior? your kids are young, I feel for you.

 

I think she should just leave the family and go away. She could not really love you and the children to cheat on the family like this.

 

I do hope you can get some help and support. But not from her. You can't trust a thing that she says.

[sandylee1]

CW,

 

Is there anything that would be an instant deal breaker for you in marriage?

 

There's actually a BH with a similar story to yours currently there, except his wife joined a swinging club and had sex with a few at a time as well. She was busted when he was anonymously sent a video of it by email.

 

As in your case he isn't instantly moving to divorce. I'm not sure you can receive PMs otherwise I would have sent you the link to it, as you may find it helpful. I'll give it a go.

[Careless Whispers]

Careless, Could you give us some information that so far has not been alluded to? Maybe so we could understand better?

 

Did you and your wife explore swinging or threesomes before you were married?

 

For the first two years of our relationship we were just friends with benefits. During that time it was pretty full on and we had threesomes and the like. The truth is that I enjoyed watching her with other men, but we weren't together as a couple then so I guess that makes it pretty different. Once we committed to each other all that stopped except for the odd holiday dalliance over the years.

 

So no, I'm not shattered that my wife has been with another man. I am somewhat more shattered that it was more than one. I am devastated about the lies and deception.

 

So when I say that I don't care as much about the sex as I do about the lies that is true. But it's sort of like I care about the sex 9 out of 10. I care about the lies and deception 20 out of 10.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[Careless Whispers]

If I did what your wife did and my husband didn't leave me, I'd think there's nothing I could do, that would make him leave me.

I'd think he loved me so much I could get away with murder.

 

Isn't that how much you're supposed to love a person? I wouldn't sell out my wife to Police if she committed murder, I think the same could be said for a lot of married people.

 

Your point is valid though and it's a dilemma I still don't have an answer for. If there are no repercussions for her except for some grovelling and re-committing then all that is stopping her doing this again is her love for me. And that wasn't enough the first time.....

[stillafool]

For the first two years of our relationship we were just friends with benefits. During that time it was pretty full on and we had threesomes and the like. The truth is that I enjoyed watching her with other men, but we weren't together as a couple then so I guess that makes it pretty different. Once we committed to each other all that stopped except for the odd holiday dalliance over the years.

 

So no, I'm not shattered that my wife has been with another man. I am somewhat more shattered that it was more than one. I am devastated about the lies and deception.

 

So when I say that I don't care as much about the sex as I do about the lies that is true. But it's sort of like I care about the sex 9 out of 10. I care about the lies and deception 20 out of 10.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

Well since you don't mind your wife having sex with other men why don't you just have an open marriage so she can continue doing what she wants and you two still remain married?

[Careless Whispers]

What do you need now? I think your decision to stay has been challenged, so we have that down, but any specific things, or actions that you are taking what would you like to discuss?

 

Well I have organised a polygraph test, was able to get an appointment this weekend.

 

They have said I need to make a list of the questions I want asked. They need to be direct and to the point and the fewer questions the better. Too many questions or ambiguous questions only diminish the test results. I have ideas but am open to hear more.

 

They say time heals all wounds. I think I just need time. Whether time proves that saying true or not we will have to wait and see.

[Careless Whispers]

Well since you don't mind your wife having sex with other men why don't you just have an open marriage so she can continue doing what she wants and you two still remain married?

 

That's something I have had cross my mind over the last few months. Why don't we? I guess the thought of a holiday fling is exciting and we are in it together. The thought of her saying "see you honey. I'm off to screw.... doesn't do it for me.

[Wade Lamare]

That's pretty much it. I don't think it really matters how though, just that it did.

 

But for what it's worth. Guy 1 who is much younger was having marriage issues. My wife comforted him and over a period of weeks it went too far. Then it continued. Guy 2 who is the same age as my wife suspected something and followed them one night. Instead of calling them out he wanted to join and did. Guy 3 didn't become involved until ages later and apparently was reluctant as was my wife to have him join but he did anyway and she let him. It all happened at either Guy 1's place of when they were away on trips for tournaments.

 

It's pretty disgusting when you write it down raw like that. I actually "understand" what happened with Guy 1. My wife is a caring person so I can see how it would happen. NOT that I approve of course. But letting Guy 2 join and then also Guy 3 who she didn't even really want just makes me want to cry.

 

The how, the reason I asked about the dom/sub thing is, apart from my habit of reading things into a situation that aren't there, is that you mentioned a possibility of reconciliation.

 

This whole situation does at least indicate to me a certain degree of 'control'. And if and when you reconcile, that may be something you have to bring to your game. However you also mention, I think, that you don't see the marriage progressing in a normal husband/wife way so that point may be moot anyway.

 

And by the way the statement that guy1 was having marriage problems and needed comforting? It just caused my bullshet meter to go BANG! These sort of guys have a sixth sense of who to go for. No excuses, the fault still lies with your wife but I think she got played like a fish.

[JoeSmith357-1]

For the first two years of our relationship we were just friends with benefits. During that time it was pretty full on and we had threesomes and the like.

 

Wow, that's some pretty good insight as to who she is as a person.

 

I know it's not what you want to hear, but this was a glimpse into who she is as a person. And strictly speaking for myself, would never be marriage material. I think people who are into that, even when younger, have commitment or other issues which will prevent them from being good long term monogamous partners.

 

 

The truth is that I enjoyed watching her with other men, but we weren't together as a couple then so I guess that makes it pretty different.

 

It does make it different, and i can't reiterate, that these are not people you enter into relationships with. You have your fun with them and find someone who isnt into getting gangbanged or cuckholded or whatever to marry...

 

Once we committed to each other all that stopped

 

Well, apparently not...

 

except for the odd holiday dalliance over the years.

 

Care to elaborate a little more on this one? Am I reading this right that you actually ENABLED it at some point? As long as you were involved?

 

So no, I'm not shattered that my wife has been with another man. I am somewhat more shattered that it was more than one. I am devastated about the lies and deception.

 

You have every right to be devastated about the lies and deception, but given this further insight into your wife, i'm kind of surprised you didn't see this coming. She is obviously broken. And has been since (I am guessing) a child. There's no fixing this at this point.

[Wade Lamare]

Well I have organised a polygraph test, was able to get an appointment this weekend.

 

They have said I need to make a list of the questions I want asked. They need to be direct and to the point and the fewer questions the better. Too many questions or ambiguous questions only diminish the test results. I have ideas but am open to hear more.

 

They say time heals all wounds. I think I just need time. Whether time proves that saying true or not we will have to wait and see.

 

 

I suppose 3 questions is enough really, plus there will no doubt be a few control questions.

There are many differing opinions as to their efficacy but their main benefit tends to be the 'parking lot confession'. Parking Lot Confession is, as it's name suggests, a confession in the parking lot. Sometimes to avoid going through the stress of the test or sometimes, in reality, a further attempt at trickle truth. "If I confess to this detail maybe my spouse will think I've told them everything."

 

One ruse I have heard of is to tell your spouse that you are going to ask them question A, B and C in that order but on the day ask them C, A and B to avoid them rehearsing their answers.

 

Alternatively I have heard of people telling their spouse that they are going to be asking A, B and C but then asking D, E and F instead. Would certainly stop them rehearsing their answers but may muddy the results by adding further anxiety.

[notbroken]

So you married a lady that was/is into swinging and you are surprised/angry when she swings (she still is - don't fool yourself)? There are some things that are very hard to 'put back into the box' (ie. when you buy something, take it out of the box it came in and then try to fit back in the box, it doesn't always fit). This is one of those things. It won't go back in the box.

 

She is into swinging. Has been for a long time. It will prove very difficult for her to stop in the future. Maybe impossible. Even if she does temporarily stop she may always lust for that. Are you prepared to be married to her and either allow it to keep happening or be lied to while it still does? Can you really trust her ever again (that's a pretty outrageous secret to keep - and she would have kept it forever if not forced)? Can you really forgive her and look at her the same way in the future?

 

I couldn't. Maybe (and that's a big maybe) you can. Decide the answers to those questions and act accordingly.

[BluesPower]

I am not going to condemn anyone for being in the lifestyle, I really don't think that is right. It is a valid choice for some people.

 

While it may explain why OP is not, for now, freaked with the type of sex that she had. He must be freaked out that she cheated for 2 years with a set of 2 YO twins at home with hubby. I just can't understand that level of betrayal.

 

That is what I can't understand about WW. If her and hubby went to the occasional swinging resort on holiday, then why the 2 year group sex affair?

 

She could have had all the crazy sex with H that she wanted to. Further, part of the Lifestyle involves complete and total honesty and communication. I just don't understand???

 

OP what does she say when you ask these questions? She must have some type of answer?

 

Please keep us informed and let us know how you are doing...

[oldshirt]

 

That is what I can't understand about WW. If her and hubby went to the occasional swinging resort on holiday, then why the 2 year group sex affair?

 

She could have had all the crazy sex with H that she wanted to. Further, part of the Lifestyle involves complete and total honesty and communication. I just don't understand???

 

.

 

It is the exact same reason so-called monogamist a cheat - selfishness and entitlement.

 

Couples that swing together have lots of rules and boundaries and all players have to be inboard and agreeable to everything.

 

Selfish and entitled people don't want to play by anyone else's rules but their own.

 

In order for her to have had all her group sex with CW in the mix, he would've had to agreed to all all the other dudes joining in and they would've had to agree to having her husband there. And she would've had to have gotten a babysitter.

 

It was easier, more fun and more convenient having him home watching the kids unaware of what was going on.

 

This is why CW is so upset over the lies, deception and sneaking around.

 

He was used as a babysitting chump that watched the kids and had the dishes done and the laundry folded while she was out having wild porno sex.

 

The irony and true betrayal here is he probably would've let her have her fun and would've enjoyed it himself if they'd done it together, but instead she duped him to stay at home so she wouldn't have any restrictions on her fun.

[Careless Whispers]

I know it's not what you want to hear, but this was a glimpse into who she is as a person. And strictly speaking for myself, would never be marriage material. I think people who are into that, even when younger, have commitment or other issues which will prevent them from being good long term monogamous partners.

 

 

You've made some pretty damning assessments of my wife based on the fact that she participated in some swinging in her earlier years. I'm not questioning your assessment, you're entitled to hold whatever view you wish. But all those assessments could be equally made about me.

 

I would like to think that I was/am marriage material.

I would like to think I made a good long term monogamous partner.

I would like to think that I am someone you should enter into a relationship with.

I wouldn't consider myself broken.

 

My wife may be all of those things above but it's not because we were swingers 20 something years ago.

 

Care to elaborate a little more on this one? Am I reading this right that you actually ENABLED it at some point? As long as you were involved?

 

What is there to elaborate on? A few times in our 20 years of marriage we whilst on holidays we have connected with another male/female/couple and have pursued this to a sexual conclusion with a strict "this happens only on this holiday" rule.

 

That, in my opinion, is not enabling her to lie and deceive and cheat on me.