Wife was cheating. Second chance or not?

[Careless Whispers]

This is why CW is so upset over the lies, deception and sneaking around.

 

He was used as a babysitting chump that watched the kids and had the dishes done and the laundry folded while she was out having wild porno sex.

 

The irony and true betrayal here is he probably would've let her have her fun and would've enjoyed it himself if they'd done it together, but instead she duped him to stay at home so she wouldn't have any restrictions on her fun.

 

That's a pretty accurate summation, far better than I have been able to put it.

 

However I am not sure I would have been giving my approval for her to sleep with bowling guys ever. We have (probably should say had now) a "no friends" rule. Would I have said yes had it been strangers? I still doubt it but there would have been a faint chance depending on circumstances.

 

I realize it's confronting for a lot of people to hear about the swinging lifestyle. I wouldn't even consider ourselves swingers given how infrequently we do it. That is why I only vaguely hinted in my first post. Peoples attitudes tend to change when they find out and the advice changes, making the advice tainted by peoples predisposed idea of what a swinger is rather than based on the specific situation.

[drifter777]

 

I realize it's confronting for a lot of people to hear about the swinging lifestyle. I wouldn't even consider ourselves swingers given how infrequently we do it. That is why I only vaguely hinted in my first post. Peoples attitudes tend to change when they find out and the advice changes, making the advice tainted by peoples predisposed idea of what a swinger is rather than based on the specific situation.

Yeah - I bet the advice changes real fast when they find out you are swingers.

 

You reap what you sow

[Wade Lamare]

I realize it's confronting for a lot of people to hear about the swinging lifestyle. I wouldn't even consider ourselves swingers given how infrequently we do it. That is why I only vaguely hinted in my first post. Peoples attitudes tend to change when they find out and the advice changes, making the advice tainted by peoples predisposed idea of what a swinger is rather than based on the specific situation.

 

Hey, no problems for me.

 

Not my thing at all, at a push I'd accept a second woman in my bed.

 

However it's horses for courses, and I do believe that the motion of MY ocean is not the only way to rock someone's boat.

 

To either largely put this swinger thing out of the picture or to include it as a possible factor in further advice/observations, do you think your previous, sporadic swinging may have influenced, even slightly, your wife's calamitous decision making process in regards to this whole scenario?

[oldshirt]

Yeah - I bet the advice changes real fast when they find out you are swingers.

 

You reap what you sow

 

Swinging is not sowing being lied to, deceived, manipulated and cheated on.

 

Swinging and adultery are polar opposites from each other. Swinging is based on open communication, mutual respect and compassion, mutual consent, playing by the established rules and boundaries etc etc

 

Swinging does NOT give license for one party to lie and sneak around and pull the wool over the other's eyes so they can have their extra fun while the other watches the kids and does the laundry. Swinging does not negate the pain and shock and horror of betrayal.

 

In fact IMHO it makes it worse.

 

As a former swinger myself, I can clearly testify that if my wife were to sneak around and cheat behind my back, my reaction to it would be much harsher than if we were a traditional, monogamist couple.

 

If you have already established a system for which someone can experience a variety of sexual scenarios with other people, and someone disregards that system and back-doors the whole mechanism and goes off and does their own thing through lies and deceptions, it actually makes it worse and is a bigger window into the WS's character than for a traditional couple.

[oldshirt]

I don't want to get into a debate of whether swinging is right or wrong, good or bad.

 

But what I do want to make clear is that their dabbling in a few instances of swinging in years past did NOT give her license to do this, nor does it negate CW's pain and suffering nor negate the impact of her actions.

 

Cheating is a character issue. It is about selfishness, entitlement and disregard for other people's feelings whilst someone pursues their own wants.

 

That has nothing to do with the mutually consensual activity of swinging. Swinging neither causes nor prevents cheating. There are swingers who cheat. There are monogamists who don't. There are monogamists who cheat and swingers who do not.

 

The traits and characteristics that cheaters share is a disregard for other people's feelings while in pursuit of their wants through selfishness and entitlement. Cheaters do not follow the established rules and boundaries of the relationship. this is true whether they are a swinger or a traditional spouse.

 

The faithful do follow the established rules and boundaries of the relationship and do not disregard the feelings and wellbeing of their spouse and marriage to pursue their own wants. This is also true whether they are a swinger or a traditional spouse.

[road]

 

What is there to elaborate on? A few times in our 20 years of marriage we whilst on holidays we have connected with another male/female/couple and have pursued this to a sexual conclusion with a strict "this happens only on this holiday" rule.

 

That, in my opinion, is not enabling her to lie and deceive and cheat on me.

 

 

 

In fact, for I have seen countless stories like yours. Once the box gets opened the lid never gets put back on. The husband and the wife set up rules on how other people are allowed into the bed.

 

 

The wife wants it more then the husband and she ignores the rules because she wants to continue having an open marriage so she has affairs.

 

 

Just as your WW has done.

 

 

I am not surprised that you left out the important detail that you had an open marriage prior to your WW cheating.

[oldshirt]

 

However I am not sure I would have been giving my approval for her to sleep with bowling guys ever. We have (probably should say had now) a "no friends" rule. Would I have said yes had it been strangers? I still doubt it but there would have been a faint chance depending on circumstances.

 

.

 

This is what I was talking about in my post.

 

She wanted to bang the bowling buddies, but she knew you would not have gone for it so she did it on her own behind your back without your knowledge or consent.

 

She was too selfish and entitled to follow the rules and boundaries of the relationship.

 

This is a character issue and an egregious violation of the established rules of the marriage and defilement of the marital bed.

 

There is no getting past this. There is no waiver or loophole that makes this ok.

 

there is no salve and no magic pixie dust that will soothe this or make it better. Your wife committed a horrific offense to you and to your marriage.

 

I agree with the earlier poster who stated you are still in shock and still in denial. Denial is not denying that the event occurred but denying and overlooking the meaning, impact and effect that it has.

 

Brace for impact because it's coming soon.

[BluesPower]

Shirt, as usually, is right on the money.

 

We can all say whatever we feel, but I have seen post where we had to back off of the BS because the were not handling the true well and you could tell.

 

I think OP here is doing OK here considering what he is dealing with.

 

I really feel like it is wrong to condemn OP and wife as swingers. That has nothing to do with the betrayal and the horror of her affair. If fact you could continue to argue that it made the betrayal worse because as a couple they could engage in this if they wanted to on holiday.

 

This wife had a sexual affair with multiple people for two years while he was at home watching the kids. No I don't know about anyone else but that would just chap my butt.

 

My questions OP are:

 

1) How are you currently doing overall? What stage of grief over the affair do you think you are in?

 

2) What does your wife say when you talk to her about the affair. The Why? How does she "APPEAR" to feel about it?

 

3) Does she admit that it would still be going on if they were not all caught?

 

4) How is she going to help you heal from this? How are you going to help yourself heal from it?

 

5) Do you know what you want to do yet.

 

 

Keep us informed. We are here for you...

[understand50]

That's a pretty accurate summation, far better than I have been able to put it.

 

However I am not sure I would have been giving my approval for her to sleep with bowling guys ever. We have (probably should say had now) a "no friends" rule. Would I have said yes had it been strangers? I still doubt it but there would have been a faint chance depending on circumstances.

 

I realize it's confronting for a lot of people to hear about the swinging lifestyle. I wouldn't even consider ourselves swingers given how infrequently we do it. That is why I only vaguely hinted in my first post. Peoples attitudes tend to change when they find out and the advice changes, making the advice tainted by peoples predisposed idea of what a swinger is rather than based on the specific situation.

 

CW,

 

No the main issue is the lying and not being honest with you. The fact that at time you and your wife TOGETHER engage in group sex is besides the point. It does explain, the whole idea of you being more upset about the lying then the sex. Myself, the group sex would be huge. Now that that is cleared away, I think your idea of forgiving and staying together makes a lot of sense.

 

In my own situation, what became the central issue was honesty and communication between my wife and I. Her over spending involve a huge amount of lying and disrespect. So what we did to go back in our past and told all our secrets, and worked to be as open as possible. The "white" lie, of "does this make me look fat" still holds. No, what I was after, and she agreed to, was not to have secrets, or holding things in on fundamental things, sex money, health, ETC. It is a work in progress, but she has gotten much better.

 

In your situation, I would key in on her honesty and her communication with you. If she had been open at the first, this would not have grown to where it is now. A lot can be said of that, the ONS, that grows into a full affair. The EA that goes PA.

 

I think you two can get over this, but your marriage is going to have to change to do it. She must be open, and communicate what she wants. She must hold to the rule you both set up. The same can be said for you. Did you and your wife talk about any rules for sex with people outside the marriage? This is not to excuse what she did, but in your case I can see where lines may have been blurred.

 

As always I wish you luck.....

Edited August 19, 2016 by understand50

[DKT3]

Cw, the thing is, it's not jumping across the grand canyon to go from what you were doing together and what she did on her own. I'm sure part of her reasoning was that it's not something that you hadn't done in the past. This allowed her to make the transition.

 

In this sense her affair is no worse then most, given that it doesn't stray that far from your normal sexual relationship. With of course the lying deceitful part.

[drifter777]

I don't want to get into a debate of whether swinging is right or wrong, good or bad.

 

But what I do want to make clear is that their dabbling in a few instances of swinging in years past did NOT give her license to do this, nor does it negate CW's pain and suffering nor negate the impact of her actions.

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't say you don't want to get into a debate and then pontificate on how all of us should view swinging. For me, it's gateway behavior that leads to cheating. It's nearly always the husband who opens this door but the wife rarely walks through. The ones that do crave the attention of men but need a push to do this gang-bang thing because, well, it's too slutty to contemplate. But now hubby is not only accepting of it but he is pushing her to do it. She is being excused for slutty behavior making it not slutty any longer. When they decide to stop the lifestyle it's nearly always the wife who can't let it go and keeps up the fun on the down-low. It's so much easier for a woman to get sex than for a man - and that wonderful experience of being the center of sexual attention by lots of guys is intoxicating. She often will crave that attention and find a way to get it again and it's so damn easy. All she has to do is not say "No" when sex is on the table.

 

Cheating is a character issue. It is about selfishness, entitlement and disregard for other people's feelings whilst someone pursues their own wants.

So is swinging.

[aliveagain]

The reason you are in this situation has nothing to do with your lifestyle, past or present. You are in this situation because you have a wife with sh*tty boundaries who is a liar and a very nasty and reckless cheater. I would fire her from the position as my wife if it were me but you are not me. If you can live with the shame and humiliation and the risks she has forced on you then go for it. Just don't waste too much time on a bad situation if you start having doubts about the quality of your future with her. This is your life but wasting it on someone who doesn't respect you is a bigger crime in my opinion.

[aileD]

OP, would you have been ok with the arrangement if you were one of the guys in the group?

[Mr Blunt]

Your wife liked the swinging sex when you were friends with her, then she liked the swinging sex when you were married for years, and now she enjoyed the sex with her three bowling buddies. You approved of the swinging sex when you were friends and when you were married and now you are irate because your wife was having sex with other men and left you out of the action. Yes she lied and deceived but what did you expect? You both allowed her to get addicted to sex with other men and it would just be a matter of time before she left you out.

 

Your wife has a strong appetite for sex with other men and she will probably always have that desire since she has proven that desire for the last 20 years.

 

You enjoyed watching your wife get banged by other men and you have stated that this and the swinging issue is not a matter of right or wrong. If you want a marriage that builds trust and fidelity then your swinging and enjoying watching your wife get banged by other men, then what you both have done is wrong. You can argue that it is not wrong but then all you have to do is look at your results.

 

You have sacrificed your wife’s sex loyalty to you and your sexual loyalty to your wife in exchange for your sexual delights of allowing your wife to bang other men so you can bang other women and you enjoying watching other men put the meat to your wife. Your sexual delights seem twisted to me.

 

Careless Whispers, you and your wife maybe able to patch some of the damage done in the last 20 years but your wife will always desire other men. After 20 years of enjoying a certain sex a person is not suddenly going to not like that sex. That is reality. You can compromise and keep your family together but you cannot keep your wife’s fantasies and desires for other men out of her life

[sandylee1]

CW wouldn't have wanted her having sex with those they knew behind his back. The swinging was a matter between the couple and with agreed parties. I can understand clearly how the 2 year secret is very different to previous arrangements and I'm not sure why others don't get that.

[Cephalopod]

I should have known there was more to this story. What a disappointment.

[Careless Whispers]

To either largely put this swinger thing out of the picture or to include it as a possible factor in further advice/observations, do you think your previous, sporadic swinging may have influenced, even slightly, your wife's calamitous decision making process in regards to this whole scenario?

 

I don't think our swinging has anything to do with what happened. If anything at all it made it more possible for her to come to me and say "hey let's swing like we do on our holidays". Not saying I would have agreed. In this situation I certainly would not have as they were friends.

[Careless Whispers]

OP, would you have been ok with the arrangement if you were one of the guys in the group?

 

No. We agreed to never do it with friends or acquaintances. So even if I would have joined and made it 4 guys (which I would not be in to anyway) I still would have said no because of the friendships.

[Careless Whispers]

Your wife liked the swinging sex when you were friends with her, then she liked the swinging sex when you were married for years, and now she enjoyed the sex with her three bowling buddies. You approved of the swinging sex when you were friends and when you were married and now you are irate because your wife was having sex with other men and left you out of the action. Yes she lied and deceived but what did you expect? You both allowed her to get addicted to sex with other men and it would just be a matter of time before she left you out.

 

This makes no sense to me at all. What I approved was swinging with mutual consent. We never had an open marriage where either of us could whatever we want whenever we want.

 

To follow your logic, if you approved of your partner going to a casino and spending money back when you were friends, and the again after you were married that it would be ok if then years later she has a two year gambling binge and loses a fortune. That it would be your fault for opening the door to gambling.

 

I hope I have misunderstood and that is not what you are suggesting, because if it is I find your theory absolute rubbish.

[Careless Whispers]

CW wouldn't have wanted her having sex with those they knew behind his back. The swinging was a matter between the couple and with agreed parties. I can understand clearly how the 2 year secret is very different to previous arrangements and I'm not sure why others don't get that.

 

I'm glad you understand sandylee1. It appears many others don't. It makes for frustrating reading. I feel that as much as it an attack on my wife that it equally applies to me and as such I feel the need to defend myself. The problem is that means by de facto I am also defending my wife and that's not something I want to do right now.

[Careless Whispers]

For what it's worth we had the polygraph today. The results came back with all truthful answers. I guess that wont matter to many here because, you know... swingers. And we all know swingers = bad.

[LifesontheUp]

So how are you feeling after the polygraph? How is the counseling going?

[BluesPower]

Look, please don't let the people that disagree with your lifestyle choices get you down. Not everyone feels that way.

 

 

Many, many of us want to know how you are doing and how you are feeling. I personally would like to know the answers to my questions in my last post.

 

 

You have been through a horrible betrayal that is in now way your fault it is 100% your wife fault.

 

 

How are you guys doing? What questions did you ask on poly.

 

 

Don't shut down because some people disagree with your choices.

 

 

Keep us informed and good luck.

[road]

For what it's worth we had the polygraph today. The results came back with all truthful answers. I guess that wont matter to many here because, you know... swingers. And we all know swingers = bad.

 

 

The truth is the truth and has nothing to do with anything else.

[road]

Look, please don't let the people that disagree with your lifestyle choices get you down. Not everyone feels that way.

 

 

Many, many of us want to know how you are doing and how you are feeling. I personally would like to know the answers to my questions in my last post.

 

 

You have been through a horrible betrayal that is in now way your fault it is 100% your wife fault.

 

 

How are you guys doing? What questions did you ask on poly.

 

 

Don't shut down because some people disagree with your choices.

 

 

Keep us informed and good luck.

 

Normally it is always the WS's fault for the affair because they were the one that did the cheating. Their decision.

 

 

However after reading so many threads where relationships wound up having affairs in them is when the BH decided to open their marriage in some way.

 

 

When a wife is given up to other men she does not feel valued by her husband because she is not being mate guarded by her husband.

 

 

It places her on the slippery slope to having affairs. This is common knowledge, cause and effect when husbands allows another man to have sex with his wife.

 

 

This is also why when men post asking about their idea to have an open marriage or swinging are told it is a bad idea and usually winds up with the wife having affairs.

 

 

So the BH now has a polygraph test done. That not undo his WW's cheating for the last 2 years.

 

 

Another lesson to be learned before more affairs happen is to never let the spouse have recreational activities with opposite sex friends. That leads to affairs all to easy and often.