Author august14 Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Ha, I wouldn't know what to say Speaking as a socially-backward idiot that could possibly empathise with this chap, could I recommend that you attempt to take the initiative? Find some common ground to talk to him (preferably on his own), or via FB/email/etc if it's easier... some kind of medium that he can respond in his own time, on his terms. I wouldn't want anyone to miss out on a potential relationship, if the barrier was simply that between the pair of them they couldn't find a way to break the ice. Life's too short, as they say. I find it weird that posters here are commenting on whether they would find this shy guy attractive or not. She didn't come here posting on whether we find shyness attractive or off putting, she came here asking on whether we can tell if he likes or not. So whether we say shyness is off putting it doesn't really matter cause she already decided she likes this guy. OP my advice to you is to just keep talking to this guy and just be friendly. Since he's shy you might have to take the lead a little but if you gain his trust I got the feeling he'll open up to you more. Just know it can take some time. But the benefit is, if he's attractive to you and is very shy then he'll probably be loyal since he isn't very open to people he doesn't know well. Good luck OP The ice has been broken, but despite what I'd consider "an opening," he would consistently retreat in a way that makes me wonder if it was all in my head. As someone who's equally (if not more) shy and lacking in confidence, I can't say this makes me want to keep trying. I posted this thread hoping I would get input from people with similar backgrounds, but I guess there aren't a lot of those around here. Appreciate these posts though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) actually it makes perfect sense to me.....out of all the posts on this thread dark horsees is the most coherent and empathetic...in my opinion...closest to the mark..... Empathetic, sure. Practical? Probably not. I'm as empathetic as they come, I just don't think empathy towards people (with whatever their affliction or state) is correlated to attraction. We don't live in a world where people are normally attracted to other people because we feel bad for them or have empathy. The two are separate. If you feel empathetic towards someone, that's great. But assuming that the empathy is indicative of anything but that is very presumptuous. If I see someone sick in the hospital, I feel bad for them, but it doesn't turn me on. you think shyness is fear.......mistake... [...] i am a shy person.....iam a scaredy cat... You've lost me here. i am a shy person.....talking to certain people normally those i feel something for......i also once said something really random to a guy i am attracted to about hypnotising chickens....thats how i opened the conversation....chickens......now if i had a prepared speech i would have knocked him for six..... No one said anything about "prepared speeches." All that's of concern is typical behavior for a grown man. Natural, organic conversation. i excel at writing ...poetry....introverted things....shy people things..... You'll have to elaborate, I don't understand how those things are introverted or "shy." To my knowledge, they're just skills that are completely independent of your disposition. Maybe I'm wrong? iam a scaredy cat...i can face two guys one with a machete the other with a boing knife....men have hidden behind me...ive cvered a guys body who was gettign hsi head stomped in by a drunk guy..and yeah i was scared as crap in those situations.....but no one sees me that way you are making a monumental by thinking shy people arent brave.....just because they dont go strutting... dont underestimate their ability to kick ass....or to stand up for themselves or others.....shyness has an inhearnt awkwardness....but....once a shy person feels comfortable you meet the metal of that person......you can see their hearts.... i like shy guys.......i am attracted to shy guys......i am shy at times and i understand shyness......and off the cuff conversations that start with the ability to hypnotize chickens....its often the more you like someone when you are shy ...opening conversations become harder....but we still try..even if we make fools of ourselves..that is known as courage...friend..... dark horse....rock on.....deb C'mon, guys. I never said shy people can't be "brave," or that they "can't kick ass," or be courageous. I'm not saying others who aren't shy "go strutting." I'm not saying they aren't good people or that they aren't nice. But I also think it's presumptuous to assign blanket generalizations to all shy people. All I'm saying is that shyness is literally defined as "a feeling of apprehension, lack of comfort, or awkwardness around other people. [...] The primary defining characteristic of shyness is a largely ego-driven fear of what other people will think of a person's behavior. This results in a person becoming scared of doing or saying what he or she wants to out of fear of negative reactions, being laughed at or humiliated, criticism, and/or rejection." - Wikipedia Shyness is the fear of other people and their reactions. That's not an insult to shy people, it's not a put down, and it's not a criticism. It's just a fact that exists regardless of anyone's opinion that needs to be acknowledged for this topic. I'm sure there's a ton of great things about the man OP describes. But if you agree that he's shy like OP says, you're agreeing that he's afraid of other people, because that's the definition of "shy" as posted above. It's not really that open for interpretation. So if we're cool on the semantics now you guys can continue the witch hunt on me for daring to suggest that fear is unappealing to most people, and that the empathy it might produce is not concurrent with attraction. Also, we're still in the dark about how that factors into the situation with the OP and this guy. Edited August 24, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator deleted character attack of another member ~6 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) Empathetic, sure. Practical? Probably not. I'm as empathetic as they come, I just don't think empathy towards people (with whatever their affliction or state) is correlated to attraction. We don't live in a world where people are normally attracted to other people because we feel bad for them or have empathy. The two are separate. If you feel empathetic towards someone, that's great. But assuming that the empathy is indicative of anything but that is very presumptuous. If I see someone sick in the hospital, I feel bad for them, but it doesn't turn me on. maybe empathy doesnt correlate with attraction...but with most fo the guys i have dated mylevel of empathy...has attracted them.....i am also more comfortable hanging out with people who have empathy too...i am attracted to people with empathy adn i am attracted to those who need it.....thats what empathy is.... You've lost me here. yes it wasnt too clear really i tried to edit but someone else had replied....being fearful and afrraid does not correlate to being unable to act.....or for that matter to be even more courageous than a confident person.....i ttakes more guts to act when you are afraid than to do something while feeling full of confidence and bravado with brass balls........ No one said anything about "prepared speeches." All that's of concern is typical behavior for a grown man. Natural, organic conversation. if something is going to be natural and organic...that takes time to develop for some people..its not instantaneous......or modified and hurried......you can have things prepared to talk about and still be organic and natural....the organic parts are tangents to go off on...... You'll have to elaborate, I don't understand how those things are introverted or "shy." To my knowledge, they're just skills that are completely independent of your disposition. Maybe I'm wrong? no...those things....art ...poetry ...writing are actually a form of expression.....introverted people normally do excel at these....because expression is a part of who you are.....in some it becomes...a necessary outlet...for communication......to reach people.introverts are quite commonly shy....often observers..thinkers......observers communicate in different ways soemtimes...this is not true to all...but common to quite a few.... C'mon, guys. I never said shy people can't be "brave," or that they "can't kick ass," or be courageous. I'm not saying others who aren't shy "go strutting." I'm not saying they aren't good people or that they aren't nice. But I also think it's presumptuous to assign blanket generalizations to all shy people. All I'm saying is that shyness is literally defined as "a feeling of apprehension, lack of comfort, or awkwardness around other people. [...] The primary defining characteristic of shyness is a largely ego-driven fear of what other people will think of a person's behavior. This results in a person becoming scared of doing or saying what he or she wants to out of fear of negative reactions, being laughed at or humiliated, criticism, and/or rejection." - Wikipedia Shyness is the fear of other people and their reactions. That's not an insult to shy people, it's not a put down, and it's not a criticism. It's just a fact that exists regardless of anyone's opinion that needs to be acknowledged for this topic. I'm sure there's a ton of great things about the man OP describes. But if you agree that he's shy like OP says, you're agreeing that he's afraid of other people, because that's the definition of "shy" as posted above. It's not really that open for interpretation. So if we're cool on the semantics now you guys can continue the witch hunt on me for daring to suggest that fear is unappealing to most people, and that the empathy it might produce is not concurrent with attraction. Also, we're still in the dark about how that factors into the situation with the OP and this guy. im sorry you feel i am witch hunting......and my post all in all was a defensive post.....but not against you...you say fear is unappealing.....that is your opinion you cant speak fro most....you also stated fearful people dont make moves...which is untrue and not a majority rule......... the fact is..... the op likes the guy and as another poster said...its not up to you or others to decide why or how she likes someone who is shy Edited August 24, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator redacted response to deleted material from preceding post ~6 Link to post Share on other sites
Osmium13 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I think you guys may be overthinking this slightly! Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Hmm, I thought to have any success with shy women you need to be really outgoing to offset that. That can be true, because someone has to be able to function as the leader. But I've known shy couples. They were comfortable with each other but hardly a lot of fun to be around. Someone super social isn't going to get along with someone too shy, but someone middle of the road certainly might. What I've seen is shy or socially anxious guys are very intimidated and afraid of woman and are always trying to interpret their disinterest as possibly maybe being shyness, because they wouldn't be as afraid of a woman shier than them. But that is rarely the reality. I have rarely known any woman so shy she can't show interest. In fact, a lot of shy women can't help but show interest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I have to agree with one point by Normal Person up there. Creativity is not restricted to shy people, writing, poetry, etc. In fact, coming up in the music subculture, most of the creative ones were fearless. But it's true that if one is introspective they may be more prone to examine themselves through journaling, which I did, because they're often self-monitoring. But I was not shy. If I had been, I probably wouldn't have had much to write about. Just sayin'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Inflikted Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I, myself, am a very introverted, awkward, and socially inept person. I can't speak for everyone like that, but it can be difficult to know how to properly communicate and converse with others, and to convey how you feel. It bums me out that so many people in this thread have basically been like "Ew, how could you possibly be attracted to someone like that? Why in the world would you want to date someone that's awkward?", like it's some kind of horrible plague. But, at the same time, I've already accepted that I'll never be with another person, so I do kind of get it, even if I do resent it a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I, myself, am a very introverted, awkward, and socially inept person. I can't speak for everyone like that, but it can be difficult to know how to properly communicate and converse with others, and to convey how you feel. No one's saying it's not difficult. What I am saying is that whatever your perceived shortcoming, other people are very likely not going to give you the benefit of the doubt for it as suggested in this thread. I'm just trying to be realistic here in this thread where people seem very quick to pretend that things that are very frequently seen as unappealing are actually positive attributes and that our empathy for them is somehow intertwined with it. If you or someone like OP wants to give someone the benefit of the doubt, that's great. It's your prerogative. All I'm saying is, most people won't. It bums me out that so many people in this thread have basically been like "Ew, how could you possibly be attracted to someone like that? Why in the world would you want to date someone that's awkward?", like it's some kind of horrible plague. No one's saying "ew," but OP is yet to explain the appeal of this guy. All we know is that he's shy and awkward. If that was all I knew about someone, I'd pass. Wouldn't you? I think you guys may be overthinking this slightly! I agree. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I, myself, am a very introverted, awkward, and socially inept person. I can't speak for everyone like that, but it can be difficult to know how to properly communicate and converse with others, and to convey how you feel. It bums me out that so many people in this thread have basically been like "Ew, how could you possibly be attracted to someone like that? Why in the world would you want to date someone that's awkward?", like it's some kind of horrible plague. But, at the same time, I've already accepted that I'll never be with another person, so I do kind of get it, even if I do resent it a bit. And yet you're very outspoken and communicate well on this forum. Doesn't that ability make you wonder if maybe with some help, you could translate that to in-person encounters? You might just need some behavior modification practice, you never know. Link to post Share on other sites
Osmium13 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 And yet you're very outspoken and communicate well on this forum. Doesn't that ability make you wonder if maybe with some help, you could translate that to in-person encounters? You might just need some behavior modification practice, you never know. From a personal perspective, I'm far better at communicating through written means than in person. It's very different. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JustGettingBy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Maybe he's not responsive to conversation because he doesn't want to engage in small talk. Avoiding the pool doesn't imply a fear of water, it means you don't want to go swimming right now. Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaSunrise85 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 That went straight over your head. It's just an analogy, and a useful one. I'm not tall myself -- it doesn't mean I'm delusional, or think that sports should cater to me because I'm not the best equipped person for them. The same way that women aren't obliged to cater to men who have unattractive qualities that don't appeal to them (in this case, shyness, awkwardness, and social ineptitude). The world isn't fair, guys. Women will not be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and deal with your shortcomings they find unappealing just "to be fair." The sooner you realize that, the better. That's a poor anaology. People who are socially awkward or social phobic aren't born that way, they are made that way through bad social experiences. Short people are born short, and are short no matter what they do or try. A social phobic can be rehabilitated, reenter society, and live a perfectly normal life. It's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing a physical trait you can do nothing about to something a dedicated individual can change. People who don't know anything about a topic probably shouldn't try to make simple analogies about it, huh? To the OP; try talking to him more. As a recovering social phobic myself, I have found it difficult to the point of extreme awkwardness to talk to women since my divorce started. In fact, the guy in your post sounds like me, and I feel for him. Those weird awkward things he might say are probably hugely difficult for him to get out, and it's the only way he has to let you know he's interested at all. Now that doesn't mean he's great material or anything, some scars run deep and not all social phobics have a good previous relationship in their past or even any at all in some cases. He may be jealous when you talk about past boyfriends, or he may feel so bad about how he is he's unwilling to inflict himself upon anyone because it's easy to wonder how anyone could like you, let alone love you, when the simplest of human interactions takes a Herculean effort. Or it could be as simple as he just needs someone to come to him a bit, and he'll open up. I know there's a woman at work who I really want to talk to, get to know, and ask out if I'm as interested in her as I think I might be, but I continue to say nothing because of my situation. And, it's nice to know if that person likes you or not, regardless to the outcome, because it doesn't leave you with "what ifs?" Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 From a personal perspective, I'm far better at communicating through written means than in person. It's very different. I am too. You can edit. I've always been a writer. But what counts, really, is how you are in person with other people. Two people who are good writers can totally be disappointed with each other in person. You have to be able to connect with people. Writing is a monologue. Relationships are an ongoing dialogue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Maybe he's not responsive to conversation because he doesn't want to engage in small talk. Avoiding the pool doesn't imply a fear of water, it means you don't want to go swimming right now. I agree. I've said all along that if one is so shy and fearful that they're paralyzed, then they are not ready for a relationship. It doesn't stop most of them from dreaming up one in their head that is tailored to their particular needs, though, someone who approaches them this way that isn't scary or only wants to sit around and stare at a screen with them. Of course, a lot of us may be like that as teens, but once older than that, we should be either growing out of it or getting help so it doesn't dictate our lives for us. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 That's a poor anaology. People who are socially awkward or social phobic aren't born that way, they are made that way through bad social experiences. Short people are born short, and are short no matter what they do or try. A social phobic can be rehabilitated, reenter society, and live a perfectly normal life. It's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing a physical trait you can do nothing about to something a dedicated individual can change. People who don't know anything about a topic probably shouldn't try to make simple analogies about it, huh? To the OP; try talking to him more. As a recovering social phobic myself, I have found it difficult to the point of extreme awkwardness to talk to women since my divorce started. In fact, the guy in your post sounds like me, and I feel for him. Those weird awkward things he might say are probably hugely difficult for him to get out, and it's the only way he has to let you know he's interested at all. Now that doesn't mean he's great material or anything, some scars run deep and not all social phobics have a good previous relationship in their past or even any at all in some cases. He may be jealous when you talk about past boyfriends, or he may feel so bad about how he is he's unwilling to inflict himself upon anyone because it's easy to wonder how anyone could like you, let alone love you, when the simplest of human interactions takes a Herculean effort. Or it could be as simple as he just needs someone to come to him a bit, and he'll open up. I know there's a woman at work who I really want to talk to, get to know, and ask out if I'm as interested in her as I think I might be, but I continue to say nothing because of my situation. And, it's nice to know if that person likes you or not, regardless to the outcome, because it doesn't leave you with "what ifs?" I'm sure you've had obstacles, but you did maintain a marriage for a long time, so you're not high on the scale of socially dysfunctional! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) That's a poor anaology. People who are socially awkward or social phobic aren't born that way, they are made that way through bad social experiences. Short people are born short, and are short no matter what they do or try. A social phobic can be rehabilitated, reenter society, and live a perfectly normal life. It's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing a physical trait you can do nothing about to something a dedicated individual can change. You're right that it's "different," but that's totally irrelevant and the point is still valid. People are by and large not going to give others the benefit of the doubt for whatever shortcoming they assess, whether they have the power to change it or not. And, since you're so keen to invoke the differences between ability and disability, then a perceived affliction that you have the ability to change which you choose not to is probably much less flattering than one you physically can't. Think about it: let's say, for example, Woman 1 isn't attracted to short men or fat men. A short man is out of luck because he can't do anything about his situation by nature of biology. He can have a ton of other great qualities that he worked hard to develop, but whatever he does, Woman 1 can't be bothered with him. However, a fat man can do something about his situation but chooses not to out of comfort, convenience, fear, laziness, lack of will power, or whatever else is holding him back. Now, which person acting in conjunction with their affliction seems less appealing? People who don't know anything about a topic probably shouldn't try to make simple analogies about it, huh? Some people in this thread don't know what the word "shy" means and argue that fear is appealing. Of all things written here, it's kind of silly to try and one up me on an unrelated technicality, especially one that made my relevant point more convincing. Edited August 25, 2016 by normal person Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaSunrise85 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 You're right that it's "different," but that's totally irrelevant and the point is still valid. People are by and large not going to give others the benefit of the doubt for whatever shortcoming they assess, whether they have the power to change it or not. And, since you're so keen to invoke the differences between ability and disability, then a perceived affliction that you have the ability to change which you choose not to is probably much less flattering than one you physically can't. Everyone has the ability to change, not everyone will take that opportunity or even get one, but if they seek it they will find that. In essence, their problem isn't the social anxiety, it's an unwillingness to change. Think about it: let's say, for example, Woman 1 isn't attracted to short men or fat men. A short man is out of luck because he can't do anything about his situation by nature of biology. He can have a ton of other great qualities that he worked hard to develop, but whatever he does, Woman 1 can't be bothered with him. However, a fat man can do something about his situation but chooses not to out of comfort, convenience, fear, laziness, lack of will power, or whatever else is holding him back. Now, which person acting in conjunction with their affliction seems less appealing? People have preferences, my opinion on who seems appealing is irrelevant if those people like each other, so I'm not sure what your point is. Some people in this thread don't know what the word "shy" means and argue that fear is appealing. Of all things written here, it's kind of silly to try and one up me on an unrelated technicality, especially one that made my relevant point more convincing. The "Technicality" isn't unrelated or even a technicality. You're just flat out wrong. I suppose comparing a fat person who didn't want to change and a social phobic who didn't want to change could be fair, but that's not what you did. It seems to me you're the one confused about terms and such. And having read the whole thread, I'm not seeing this "fear is appealing" you're talking about. Is it the people saying shy girls are attractive? I think perhaps your arguments are more indicative of your hangups than other's. And if you feel like I'm one uping you, perhaps it's best to just realise when you've said something wrong headed and grow as a person instead. People can find shy people attractive. Regardless of gender. Its 2016 man. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Inflikted Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 No one's saying it's not difficult. What I am saying is that whatever your perceived shortcoming, other people are very likely not going to give you the benefit of the doubt for it as suggested in this thread. I'm just trying to be realistic here in this thread where people seem very quick to pretend that things that are very frequently seen as unappealing are actually positive attributes and that our empathy for them is somehow intertwined with it. If you or someone like OP wants to give someone the benefit of the doubt, that's great. It's your prerogative. All I'm saying is, most people won't. No one's saying "ew," but OP is yet to explain the appeal of this guy. All we know is that he's shy and awkward. If that was all I knew about someone, I'd pass. Wouldn't you? I guess. It's just disheartening that those of us that are socially awkward might as well have some kind of horrible contagious disease. Especially when it's not something that can necessarily be "fixed". And yet you're very outspoken and communicate well on this forum. Doesn't that ability make you wonder if maybe with some help, you could translate that to in-person encounters? You might just need some behavior modification practice, you never know. As someone else said, I'm much better at writing than talking, and I'm also much better at communicating in anonymous faceless internet forums. As for me, there's no "helping" my situation. I've been trying to observe, understand, and work on my social issues for most of my life, and it's not happening. This is just who I am. Someone would simply have to accept me for who I am, in order for me to have any kind of relationship with another person, but evidently, no one will accept me for who I am, as again, apparently being socially awkward and inept means I'm underserving of companionship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaSunrise85 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I'm sure you've had obstacles, but you did maintain a marriage for a long time, so you're not high on the scale of socially dysfunctional! I've come to realise I am actually a lot better off than a lot of my social phobic brothers and sisters out there, but it also has to do with years of therapy and an effort to be "normal." It did help to have a wife who was more social as I got out and did things as part of a couple. The bulk of it ends up being to just learn when your thoughts are wrong and changing your view on things. Instead of saying, for example, I'm nervous talking to women, say to yourself I'm excited about talking to women. The fact is it's a similar feeling. The rest is just having positive social experiences, and that can be as simple as just saying hi to someone you like and realising you didn't die. I know that you're not having this problem, but a lot of people in this thread seem to be, and others seem to be super down on socially awkward people. I just want the ones who are having problems to know that you CAN make it better, you CAN "catch up" on the experiences you missed by and large, and you CAN live that "normal" life. And more so it's important to try and keep trying every day. Like weight loss, another demon I'm fighting (400 pounds to 270, it's a war and I'm winning), it's something you have to work on every day, every single one. And if you're having any of these issues, I promise you, you can make it. It just takes work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The "Technicality" isn't unrelated or even a technicality. You're just flat out wrong. I'll say it again, you're right: things you can change are different from things you cannot change. I'm sorry, I should've picked an analogy less likely to be picked apart for trivial reasons. It still doesn't diminish the point I was making that regardless of what your problem is and whether or not you can change it, the crux of the issue in regards to attraction is other peoples' perception of it. If someone else finds whatever it is unappealing, they probably won't give you the benefit of the doubt and overlook it on the grounds that it's "unfair" to you. Attraction doesn't work that way. Maybe I'm an idiot because I don't see why the ability to change it is so incredibly relevant when the end result is usually the same. I suppose comparing a fat person who didn't want to change and a social phobic who didn't want to change could be fair, but that's not what you did. It seems to me you're the one confused about terms and such. Pretty fitting that won't give me the benefit of the doubt -- I figured it was all pretty obviously implied given the topic, but if you really need me to describe the parallels to you, I promise I'll make more of an effort next time. I, get this, gave you the benefit of the doubt that you'd be able to put it together yourself. Or maybe it was just another horrible, baseless, analogy about something I know nothing about and can't possibly relate to, in which case I sincerely apologize. And having read the whole thread, I'm not seeing this "fear is appealing" you're talking about. Is it the people saying shy girls are attractive? I think perhaps your arguments are more indicative of your hangups than other's. If we can agree the shyness is a fear of other people, then it's been said or at least implied that it should be overlooked. I'm not saying it's not possible, or that it's bad, but are we really going to pretend like it's the rule rather than the exception? Like the maxim is "women typically go for men who are afraid of other people and social situations?" or "women dislike confidence, they prefer shyness and apprehension?" And if you feel like I'm one uping you, perhaps it's best to just realise when you've said something wrong headed and grow as a person instead. See the first paragraph. I can't in good consciousness go over this again. People can find shy people attractive. Regardless of gender. Its 2016 man. I never said they can't, I'm just saying don't be too surprised if most people don't, because shyness is fear, and to most people, fear is not a positive, appealing quality in an adult. Just like some people can find overweight people attractive. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that it's an impossibility, or that it's bad. But I'm saying a lot of people won't look at an overweight person and think "I'm not attracted to this person at all, but it'd be unfair of me to not give them my consideration, time, and attention just because of my biological personal preferences that I can't control." As nice as that may seem, I don't know too many people like that. Any, even. Maybe all your circumstances are different, but that's not the world I live in. I think that's how the majority of society will respond and I think it's foolish to pretend otherwise. And just so we're clear, I'm using that "fat" scenario as an example to parallel shyness, so you don't have to speculate and use the lack of a clear, unmistakable, literal, connection to it as an attempt to diminish the argument. I guess. It's just disheartening that those of us that are socially awkward might as well have some kind of horrible contagious disease. Especially when it's not something that can necessarily be "fixed". Look, when I take a stance that brings out the pitchforks from some other posters, sometimes I'm just taking the point of view of society, playing devil's advocate, and leaving my personal opinion out of it. Like when someone says "he should be given a chance because he's shy and scared," the incongruity of the suggestion with how most people would actually act, and the disregard for the person's own feelings of attraction is just so out of touch that I can't sit idly by and pretend like it's sensical or productive. I empathize with people who have difficulty with things, but I'm also keenly aware that my empathy is not indicative of society's, and is therefore irrelevant. No one cares about my personal opinion on it, and I know that. But I'm pretty sure I know how society will respond, and a lot of times that's the voice I try and bring into the discussion, because I feel like it's the one that matters the most. And oftentimes, it isn't a nice one. People have my empathy, and that of a lot of people in this thread, but they shouldn't be deceived into thinking that because of that, everyone Earth will be so kind. Most people probably don't wish any other people harm, misfortune, or discomfort, but at the same time they probably won't do much to actively help anyone and that indifference, that lack of the benefit of the doubt that I've been harping on this whole thread, is oftentimes what makes society seem so harsh. If you have an affliction, sure, people might feel bad for you, but don't count on them to alter their lives or act against their own best interests to accommodate you. Most people just aren't that actively nice. If you want my empathy/sympathy, you have it. But I don't think that if you collect enough, it'll somehow change the circumstances or the actions and opinions of strangers with regards to shyness or obesity, or shortness, or whatever the thing is. We all have problems. I think it's better we view them in a "real life" paradigm rather than a fantasy one where everyone gives everyone else all the help, love, consideration, time, and attention they desire. I feel like a lot of people on this forum are eager to avoid the hard truths that you have to actually confront in order to improve or deal with issues. Too many times here people are just looking to have their own complacency reinforced and applauded. I personally think it's short sighted and counter productive. Confronting the hard truths and learning how to deal with them, in my opinion, is the most practical way to look at things. I feel like there's a very salient "red pill" analogy to made, but surely someone will tell me what a horrible, worthless, wrong, analogy it is so I'll just show myself out of this thread for now. Again, maybe I'm an idiot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Look, when I take a stance that brings out the pitchforks from some other posters, sometimes I'm just taking the point of view of society, playing devil's advocate, and leaving my personal opinion out of it. Like when someone says "he should be given a chance because he's shy and scared," the incongruity of the suggestion with how most people would actually act, and the disregard for the person's own feelings of attraction is just so out of touch that I can't sit idly by and pretend like it's sensical or productive. I empathize with people who have difficulty with things, but I'm also keenly aware that my empathy is not indicative of society's, and is therefore irrelevant. No one cares about my personal opinion on it, and I know that. But I'm pretty sure I know how society will respond, and a lot of times that's the voice I try and bring into the discussion, because I feel like it's the one that matters the most. And oftentimes, it isn't a nice one. People have my empathy, and that of a lot of people in this thread, but they shouldn't be deceived into thinking that because of that, everyone Earth will be so kind. Most people probably don't wish any other people harm, misfortune, or discomfort, but at the same time they probably won't do much to actively help anyone and that indifference, that lack of the benefit of the doubt that I've been harping on this whole thread, is oftentimes what makes society seem so harsh. If you have an affliction, sure, people might feel bad for you, but don't count on them to alter their lives or act against their own best interests to accommodate you. Most people just aren't that actively nice. If you want my empathy/sympathy, you have it. But I don't think that if you collect enough, it'll somehow change the circumstances or the actions and opinions of strangers with regards to shyness or obesity, or shortness, or whatever the thing is. We all have problems. I think it's better we view them in a "real life" paradigm rather than a fantasy one where everyone gives everyone else all the help, love, consideration, time, and attention they desire. I feel like a lot of people on this forum are eager to avoid the hard truths that you have to actually confront in order to improve or deal with issues. Too many times here people are just looking to have their own complacency reinforced and applauded. I personally think it's short sighted and counter productive. Confronting the hard truths and learning how to deal with them, in my opinion, is the most practical way to look at things. I feel like there's a very salient "red pill" analogy to made, but surely someone will tell me what a horrible, worthless, wrong, analogy it is so I'll just show myself out of this thread for now. Again, maybe I'm an idiot. Here we have some profound honest words. There are fundamental problems with dealing with hard truths though, especially when the topic is a shy, less socially interactive guy. I accept I wont get a girlfriend, it took me years to own up to that truth, instead I spent years working with talents which got me nowhere and no appeal to anyone. I faced those truths. Sure, I felt terrible for a while but life goes on. Not really the life I want but its what I have. Its easy to hope for the best, hope that everyone actually is a nice person and will give you the benefit of the doubt, again I spent years believing this but it simply isn't the case. Undoubtedly there are many great guys who never truly get the relationship experience they crave due to being shy and introverted, equally many of them have many things to offer, in most respects I suspect unwavering loyalty being one. I always think its commendable when people do see past shyness, however society doesn't like it for whatever reason and the harsh reality is being shy is to confine yourself to the bench when it comes to dating and its next to impossible to get into the game unless you : change, which is tough. : take anything you can get, irrespective whether you find them attractive or not. : pay for company. The other alternative is to simple be. Link to post Share on other sites
JustGettingBy Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I agree. I've said all along that if one is so shy and fearful that they're paralyzed, then they are not ready for a relationship. It doesn't stop most of them from dreaming up one in their head that is tailored to their particular needs, though, someone who approaches them this way that isn't scary or only wants to sit around and stare at a screen with them. Of course, a lot of us may be like that as teens, but once older than that, we should be either growing out of it or getting help so it doesn't dictate our lives for us. I think you missed my point. I was saying maybe he knows small talk is BS and doesn't want to engage in it. Link to post Share on other sites
Osmium13 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Where's the OP? I want to know how this pans out... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Chris2016 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Guys in these scenarios must be good looking. That they can get away with being "shy". Link to post Share on other sites
pteromom Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I have always been attracted to shy guys, and put off by loud boorish extroverted guys. Always. And no, the shy guys I crushed on weren't always good looking, at least not using society's definition. They were good looking to ME though. OP - take the initiative. Start conversations. It's easy enough to be friendly. Once he gets more comfortable with you, he may start acting more interested. Or not. But you'll have another friend at any rate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts