Should I be honest or play tough?

[Ana-Iva]

You need to also apologize to her about YOUR part in the affair, for helping him betray her. You knew going in he was married so you're not a victim in this.

 

Also, NOTHING is stopping you from changing your number or blocking him, changing your email/blocking him on all social media too. Make it impossible for him to contact you. If you don't, well, then you're allowing him to suck you back in and to stay in your head, mess with you etc.

 

Oh I will apologize to her and I am sorry for her... but I did not know he was married until it was too late. Also, the reason I stayed is because he told me he had many affairs from the time their first child was small, so I did not feel I was ruining something that was already not ruined.

[Ana-Iva]

How noble that you are willing to tell his wife and are so concerned with her feelings, but only when he is talking to someone else.

 

If he was just messing with you, you wouldn't even be thinking about telling her.

 

If you are so disgusted by his behavior, what do you think of your own? He took advantage of you. What if he said you manipulated and came on to him?

 

The point of the matter is you both chose to cheat. You were fine with it as long as it was only with you. If you don't want to be with him, then stop making excuses about the club or this or that, and stop talking to him.

 

You keep talking about his age and immaturity. I don't know how old you are but worrying what the meaning behind the pic meant or anything else when you say you don't want to be with him, isn't very mature either.

 

Oh dear... nothing constructive here to read and no understanding of the issue at all. Moving on.

[Ana-Iva]

If this man disgusts you so much why are you so obsessed with him? You do seem to love the drama every bit as much as him. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that maybe you are a narcissist as well who feels entitled to fight a 25-year old for a married man without any regard for his BW? This guys sounds like a pig but if you are both digging it, what do you want to understand better?

 

Honey, cut the accusations and the anger. No, I am not a narcissist, I might be wanna be one or even a sociopath so I would not have much feelings but unfortunately I am not. I am a good person who did something wrong by getting involved with someone whom I did not know was married for quite a while.

[Lobe]

Oh I will apologize to her and I am sorry for her... but I did not know he was married until it was too late. Also, the reason I stayed is because he told me he had many affairs from the time their first child was small, so I did not feel I was ruining something that was already not ruined.

 

Really? I'm pretty sure if his wife is in the dark about the affairs she's completely unaware it's "ruined" already. But shoot, who cares - if he's already given her 6 STDs from the other women he's been pumping behind her back all along, what's one more?

 

cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance noun PSYCHOLOGY

the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

 

(In layman's terms, the lies you tell yourself to make it OK to do something you know damn well is wrong.)

 

Look, it's OK to admit you get off on the chase. And let's just call a spade a spade here - you telling his wife isn't because you give a rat's tail about her feelings, it's about YOU getting revenge on your MM because that will (hopefully) make his life hell the way him taunting you with the other pies he wants to stick his dirty fingers in seems to be making your life hell.

 

Again I ask, what is it you don't understand about the nature of his actions? You are disgusted by this man, you don't want a relationship with him, you don't claim to have any loving or romantic feelings for him, and he treats you and the other women he is around like garbage. It's all a big game and the BS (and any kids they may have) are the collateral damage.

 

What exactly do you want? A relationship? Revenge? I just don't understand...

[Forever broken]

Your question was whether to be honest or play tough. I will say neither. He is not worth it. I have heard it all, the sweet talks, the emotions and strong connections all means nothing to them. Do not continue wasting your precious time on him. It is hard to mend a broken heart, take it from me.

[Jersey born raised]

Actually there is something constructive with that post. Insight into what it is to be a BS. Does it apply to you? Yea, if only because you have seen the pain of the BS.

 

I applaud your willingness to attach your name and phone number. At the very least the BS while rugsweeping it, the WS might be more careful going forward.

[Forever broken]

Nicely played sandylee. Love that.

[winterkeep]

I'll start with your question first. I wouldn't bother telling him that it upsets you, he very clearly knows this, you already told him didn't you and it only reinforced his behaviour.

 

I don't think you've received that much judgement, most people have identified how toxic your situation is based off your posts and are trying to help you. This man's treatment of you, his wife and the 25 year old is horrific he actually makes my stomach turn and he obviously has no respect for women.

 

He is trying to hurt you, this is plain. At the same time he tells you how important and special you are to him - this is classic grooming behaviour for abuse. There is nothing different or special in your circumstance, it plays out here all the time.

 

I'll be honest you sound as bad as each other, you speak of him with disgust and are planning vengeance against him once he's finally discarded you I'm not really sure why either of you are continuing this.

 

I don't think that vengeance is appropriate (in any circumstance actually but particularly in this situation) you knew that he was married and therefore accepted his limitations. I disagree with telling his wife, you did this to her too so it would be cruel and inappropriate coming for you.

 

You're only 38, you have so much time to find a decent, single person with whom you can have a mutually respectful relationship.

[Lobe]

Honey, cut the accusations and the anger. No, I am not a narcissist, I might be wanna be one or even a sociopath so I would not have much feelings but unfortunately I am not. I am a good person who did something wrong by getting involved with someone whom I did not know was married for quite a while.

 

Sorry Ana-Iva - not accusations - just a curiosity that maybe you do have some unexplored emotional/esteem issues (narcissism isn't about being superficial it's about being insecure) because you seem to have this love-hate thing going on with your MM. You're both repulsed by and attracted to him and I don't understand what you are asking - to be honest with him or push him out, I don't know because I don't understand what your desired outcome is. Based on what I am reading (and please correct me if I am wrong) you want to punish him (?) Force him to leave his wife (?)

 

I'm a BS, and if I was seriously going to go off on you I'd go off on you about what it's like being a BS, but like I said, it sounds like you're mostly looking to cause your MM pain, and willing to use the BS to this end. I guess I am just not understanding what your desired outcome is.

 

And with all due respect - there are some people who have incredibly dramatic relationships that work for both parties in the context they create for themselves. While your particular kind of dominant/submissive play may not be as well-defined as the BDSM community, there is certainly an odd dynamic to your relationship. If you want the relationship to continue with someone you claim to loathe and look down on, what are you getting from the relationship? (Like in a big picture sort of way)

[Forever broken]

Are you planning on telling the wife because he's flirting with someone or because you want to do the right thing? The right thing to do is to move on and leave him in the past. He's going to hurt you and trust me is not easy putting together a broken heart. You mentioned he has had several affairs. That's him, leave him to continue digging his own grave.

 

Everybody makes mistakes. He who is without sin cast the first stone.

[Ana-Iva]

Sorry Ana-Iva - not accusations - just a curiosity that maybe you do have some unexplored emotional/esteem issues (narcissism isn't about being superficial it's about being insecure) because you seem to have this love-hate thing going on with your MM. You're both repulsed by and attracted to him and I don't understand what you are asking - to be honest with him or push him out, I don't know because I don't understand what your desired outcome is. Based on what I am reading (and please correct me if I am wrong) you want to punish him (?) Force him to leave his wife (?)

 

I'm a BS, and if I was seriously going to go off on you I'd go off on you about what it's like being a BS, but like I said, it sounds like you're mostly looking to cause your MM pain, and willing to use the BS to this end. I guess I am just not understanding what your desired outcome is.

 

And with all due respect - there are some people who have incredibly dramatic relationships that work for both parties in the context they create for themselves. While your particular kind of dominant/submissive play may not be as well-defined as the BDSM community, there is certainly an odd dynamic to your relationship. If you want the relationship to continue with someone you claim to loathe and look down on, what are you getting from the relationship? (Like in a big picture sort of way)

 

In the beginning, I did not know he was married. Then I thought it is already done, and I can handle it so I will stay in it. But things changed. The reason why I seriously started thinking about telling his wife is because I realised who he is and what he has been doing to her for 30 years, when I got a taste of it. What he did to many women before me and will do to many others after me. Drag them into relationship not telling he is married, then play dumb, then do everything to keep them... He finds women in a stage of life where they are single so he can be the centre of their universe, and vulnerable, like I was when I did not know anyone and I just moved to this country. There is some sense of justice that came from anger that hit me... This has to stop. He cannot be allowed to go around thinking what an awesome guy he is and what a great life he has, a wife at home and a lover on the side. In his own words - he has it all. I know that I can be easily exchanged as a part of that equation. But wife cannot.

 

I would not be so quick to jump into thinking that she is the same like you were when you were BS. She is pretty materialistic, likes only people who have a lot of money for friends, demands expensive presents for her birthday, etc. She has her own small business too. Not sure what is going on between them and do not need to know.

 

Can I ask you a question? As a BS, would you have rather not known all your life, or would you have rather know the truth?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Ana-Iva

[BuddyX]

So you really have two choices; inform his wife or delete him from your life (no texts, no emails, no phone calls, all Blocked).

 

Anything else means you're enjoying the train wreck.

[ShatteredLady]

At this point would you be most happy if he left your club? If there isn't another club that you could transfer to & you REALLY want to continue going (just without him being there) it's easy!! Tell his wife. She will either leave him or try to reconcile. If it's the latter she will demand that he stops going!! Problem solved.

 

I'm a BS. I would ALWAYS want to know. The very best thing you could ever do for a bs like me is give me all of the information. Copies of all communication & a time line describing how it all happened, step by ugly step. It's the greatest gift an OW could ever give me. Having a way to contact you & ask questions would be even better!

 

Your motivations? Wouldn't care!! An apology would be nice. Honesty a must. We might even become friends!! Stranger things have happened.

 

I never understand why people say that "you should only tell the BS if it's for the right reasons". REALLY? Who cares? I just want knowledge. Couldn't give a flying F why!!

 

The only thing that annoys me is when OW are intelligent enough to know that they're dealing with a heartless, womanizing twat BUT they still believe all the negatives they've been fed about the BS. I've known way more BS who 'get' the OW than the other way around! Why?

We're all women. We have insight but so many OW continue to believe the old "She's an evil harpy who withholds. She will keep him from his children. He wants to leave but can't etc etc etc". Even once the OW recognizes the MM for the lying, manipulative scum he is......

 

Sorry. Just venting now!!

 

OP you have so much more power than you think you do! You don't care all that much & that gives you a huge advantage. I've relocated to a different country. I know all about isolation & depression. You're not there anymore! You're stronger. You're settled now. You know the truth. You're no weak, lost, needy lady anymore. Why are you still acting like you are?

 

F him!! You've done it literally, now do it figuratively!!! Get him out of your life in EVERY way & be powerful, move on. Tell his BS & get him out of your club. Block him everywhere. Get that scum out of your world. Get back to being the strong, compassionate, kind, intelligent lady that you are. Get your dignity back!!! Stop this stupid game, it's humiliating for any self respecting woman. Where are your balls???

[aileD]

He sounds gross. Yuck.

 

Look from the outside in? He's disgusting and a dirty old man.

 

Move on! You deserve better

[Lobe]

I would not be so quick to jump into thinking that she is the same like you were when you were BS. She is pretty materialistic, likes only people who have a lot of money for friends, demands expensive presents for her birthday, etc. She has her own small business too. Not sure what is going on between them and do not need to know.

 

A betrayed spouse is a betrayed spouse, and even if all the BS ends up with afterwards is leverage, including financial leverage and the ability to use it as emotional blackmail, then so be it - at least then the BS has the ability to make a CHOICE, like the WS and the AP do. It's not uncommon for especially those in affluent circles to remain married and have a policy of discretion and tolerance regarding one another's dalliances, as it protects their mutual assets and social status. Maybe she knows she is betrayed and that is why she continues to have control over him.

 

Like you said, you don't need to know what is or is not going on between them but what you DO need to know is what you want for an outcome. You say you want to tell his wife to stop your MM from doing this to other women, because you got a taste of it not because you grew a conscience, which means it's still not an altruistic venture but one seeded in passive vengeance. Outing your MM isn't about saving his wife but about punishing/stopping him. But as you said yourself, you have no idea what's going on between them - you may be wasting your breath if their marriage is already one of tolerance.

 

Which leads me to answer your very loaded million dollar question:

 

As a BS, would you have rather not known all your life, or would you have rather know the truth?

 

I don't have the luxury of saying what I think I would want anymore, as I can only speak in retrospect. So, here is my list of preferences of what had happened:

 

1) I wish my husband would not have had the opportunity for an affair at all, but that did not happen because she was too inconsequential to mention when he first met her since their entire relationships started as inappropriate flirting on both their parts, so he hid her existence from me from day one

 

2) I wish my husband would have told me he was worried about our relationship because he was developing feelings for another woman, but that did not happen because instead of realizing he needed to find his way back to me, the woman at home working to support him, cook for him, raise his children, he began finding reasons to dehumanize and demonize me, thereby justifying the affair

 

3) I wish my husband's AP had insisted that she meet me and not be treated like his dirty little secret, but that did not happen because she had been led to and/or allowed to believe our marriage was on the rocks and she wouldn't be a secret forever

 

4) I wish my husband had ended it with her before it went too far and that he had rededicated himself to our marriage without me ever knowing because he developed a conscience about what was happening and didn't want to hurt me but that did not happen because by the time he was fisting her in the cubicles at the mall near the kiosk they lunched at, he was too selfish to think of anyone but himself (and yes, I am including his AP, who by this time was head over heels in love with him)

 

5) I wish my husband's AP had felt guilty enough about me being hurt and lied to or had gotten sick enough of being the OW and treated like a second fiddle that she sent me an email - even anonymously - to bring things to a head, but that did not happen because she wanted him and believed she was my husband's rightful soul mate and wanted to feel like things would just somehow work out in her favour if she waited long enough

 

6) I wish my husband had stopped the affair and confessed everything to me instead of me catching him because how I will always wonder if the affair would have gone on forever, but that did not happen because he wanted to go on eating cake forever

 

7) I wish that when I caught him, my husband would have begged me to forgive him and take him back but that did not happen because he was so deluded about our marriage and so deeply addicted to his AP that he couldn't make up his mind and so I made it up for him by serving him with a separation agreement.

 

8) I wish that when I allowed him to come home, he had told me the whole truth right up front but that did not happen because he spent months on end trickling truth to me about the depth and nature of their relationship, which he claimed was to protect me but was really to save his own pathetic sorry conflict-avoidant arse from having to see me in agonizing pain as I dealt with the sh*tshow he created in all of our lives

 

Would I have preferred not to know? I guess in the early days before things turned serious no, I would not have wanted to know if he had had inappropriate thoughts for someone but never acted on them. I know I've looked at men and had very inappropriate thoughts and have even gone so far as fantasizing about being sexually involved with other men, but never once have I felt like or considered acting on those feelings (with the exception of some great sex for one maybe - I mean come on, who hasn't flicked the bean to their fave celebrity, really... But I digress.)

 

Your situation may have started out differently, as initially you were not aware that he was married, but once you learned he was married you chose to continue, which makes you as much a guilty party as your MM. I don't believe you can "make it right" by telling his wife the same way it might have been had you told her as soon as you found out he was married. Even if you approach the BS with humility, remorse, and a genuine desire to seek forgiveness and protect her from catching a few diseases her husband's philandering penis might bring home, you may not get a very warm reception - a lot of BSs tend to project their anger towards their WS onto the AP, and you will likely have to endure bing called several names even if she is willing to talk to you. You are the enemy and will need to earn her trust - she has no reason to assume anything other than that the only reason you're telling her is to drive a wedge between you and her husband so you can have him.

 

Are you prepared to feel the scorn of his BS? What if her response is merely indifference? Will there be any fallout at the club, and if yes, who will be the loser then? Tread lightly, Ana-Iva, and be brave if this is a road you wish to walk - you may just be jumping into a bucket of scorpions. Like Shatteredlady says, it doesn't matter what your motivation is - if you want to tell the BS, knock yourself out, knowing you have NO control over the outcome and knowing it may well backfire.

 

I got the worst possible scenario that I can imagine, but I don't know. Maybe not knowing would be worse. Maybe being told by the OW would be. My "innocence" on this subject is lost. I can speculate until the cows come home if I'd be happier not knowing, but my reality now is I get to spend the rest of my life wondering how long the affair would have kept going if I hadn't trusted my gut and started digging, or more accurately, being angry at myself for not trusting my gut and digging sooner. His AP's reality now is that she will never know how it might have turned out differently had the affair been allowed to continue, to run its course. Our kids - they get to remember that one time Mom & Dad almost got a divorce because Daddy fell in love with someone else and Mom cried and threw up and didn't sleep for two weeks in a row. For him, for her - the ones who knew what they were doing - there's all kinds of guilt, shame, regret, remorse, ambiguity. For us, the betrayed - me and my kids - there's all kinds of confusion, resentment, pain. Affairs just make losers of everyone.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Lobe
typos, grammar...

[sandylee1]

What do you make out of this behaviour, photo especially? He is clearly immature ...... To me it is so obvious, but not to someone who spent his life living in denial and creating false self-image.

 

I make out that he thinks he's God's gift to women and that you can't resist him .... thus he sends you a photo to remind you of how gorgeous he is. Look at me 'the adonis' and be thankful I gave you the honour of being my mistress.

[sandylee1]

I would not be so quick to jump into thinking that she is the same like you were when you were BS. She is pretty materialistic, likes only people who have a lot of money for friends, demands expensive presents for her birthday, etc. She has her own small business too. Not sure what is going on between them and do not need to know.

 

Ava,

 

I didn't know you knew his wife personally. Were you there when she demanded these expensive gifts? Did she tell you the kind of friends she likes have to be rich?

 

Your last line which I've copied again below sums it up

 

Not sure what is going on between them and do not need to know.

 

You're dead right. You aren't sure what's going on with them and you have no business knowing. So why do you feel your statements about her are fact?

 

I once had a relationship with a guy and didn't know he had a long term GF. As soon as I found out, I ended it. All this nonsense about 'it was too late' doesn't wash with me. From the point you knew he was married you became a willing participant and were complicit in the affair.

 

You started this thread simply because you were jealous of his flirting and teasing you about the 25 year old.

 

I'm not sure why you expect anything less from a serial cheater TBH.

[elaine567]

I would not be so quick to jump into thinking that she is the same like you were when you were BS. She is pretty materialistic, likes only people who have a lot of money for friends, demands expensive presents for her birthday, etc. She has her own small business too. Not sure what is going on between them and do not need to know.

 

People in business like to cultivate rich friends it is called networking and essential if you wish to grow a business. Business is about money and people with money spend money or know of others who may spend money and they all may become your clients/customers or be able to point you in the right direction for contracts, tenders etc.

It is how it all works.

 

BUT as you say you do not really know what is gong on in their marriage only what he chooses to tell you.

He is hardly going to say to YOU that he lavishes expensive gifts on her, so he turns it round to say she demands them...

[stillafool]

If MM has been cheating for 30 years his wife more than likely knows about it and at this point is just spending his money and enjoying her life. You probably aren't the first of his OW to squeal on him when he was through with her. His wife will probably laugh and say "oh, another fool". When he finds out you told her he more than likely won't care and if she leaves him (which she won't) he can go full speed ahead to the 25 year old.

[Ana-Iva]

If MM has been cheating for 30 years his wife more than likely knows about it and at this point is just spending his money and enjoying her life. You probably aren't the first of his OW to squeal on him when he was through with her. His wife will probably laugh and say "oh, another fool". When he finds out you told her he more than likely won't care and if she leaves him (which she won't) he can go full speed ahead to the 25 year old.

 

Nah, you're wrong and there is certain malice to this post.

She has no clue.

[eye of the storm]

Unless you are best friends with the BS. You do not know what she does/does not know. You only know what he tells you. And he lies.

[whichwayisup]

She is pretty materialistic, likes only people who have a lot of money for friends, demands expensive presents for her birthday, etc. She has her own small business too. Not sure what is going on between them and do not need to know.

 

You have no clue what the truth is, MOST MM lie and bend the truth so they will look good in their OW's eyes, they make their wives out to be the devil. Chances are what he's told you is greatly exaggerated. Don't believe what he's told you about his wife.

[Lobe]

Nah, you're wrong and there is certain malice to this post.

She has no clue.

 

So as a BS, I would love to see the rough draft of your letter to her before you hit send... would you be willing to share and accept some feedback?

[Ana-Iva]

You have no clue what the truth is, MOST MM lie and bend the truth so they will look good in their OW's eyes, they make their wives out to be the devil. Chances are what he's told you is greatly exaggerated. Don't believe what he's told you about his wife.

 

He did not tell me anything at all about her.

[Ana-Iva]

So as a BS, I would love to see the rough draft of your letter to her before you hit send... would you be willing to share and accept some feedback?

 

Yes, in fact, it would be welcome to have someone with your experience read it.

A few month ago I contacted her friend on FB. I told her that she does not know me and I am sorry I am contacting her but a friend of hers is being cheated and Im debating whether to tell or not. All that this woman wanted to get out of me is the name, she did not show slightest concern that this might affect a few lives... So I thought she is not capable of handling it and never told her who it was.

Why I contacted her is to have consultation with someone who cares for her and is at least on FB really good friends with her. So I wanted to basically pass my dirty job onto her... but not for selfish reasons. I just wanted to hear if my MM's wife a strong or frail person and if she would benefit from knowing or not. All BSs and all wives say they would want to know. But everyone is different and I tried to explain this to FB friend, but she did not want to engage in any talk unless I spit out the name. I told her that she seems to be more interested in gossip than welfare of her friend and that she apparently cannot be the right person to handle this. I quit talking to her after that.

What the hell am I doing anyway...