WS. Not telling the whole truth

[Violince]

You're right about much of this. I don't have such a high opinion of myself as you describe, not by a long shot, but yes, I am fully aware that I'm neither being fully vulnerable nor giving him the information he deserves. Please don't assume I don't know these things. I do. It doesn't make this any easier. I didn't ask whether I should tell or not. I know I should by any outside observer's assessment, but no outside observer is party to this marriage, and the fact remains, I will not. My question was of how to live with and move past it given that, and since this is evidently not something anyone has an answer for, I think the thread has served its purpose.

 

I appreciate your replies and while many have certainly added to my existing doubts and uncertainties, I need to do what I know my husband would prefer, and that is to allow him not to know how bad it really was, just as he has done for the OM's BS. Which is just as unpopular a choice, but I think it illustrates his thinking and his wishes. If he chooses to ask me directly in the future -- and I have offered in the past to answer any questions about specifics he might have (he's never asked for details) -- then I will answer truthfully. But I genuinely don't think he wants to know, if he has doubts.

[Violince]

And has he been given this choice? The damage has already been done.

Well, yes. He is free to ask for details and always has been. He has never asked for details of the conversation or a timeline (which I offered). At this point, if he chooses to ask, I will answer truthfully despite the consequences. I know he doesn't want more information now. He's said as much on multiple occasions.

 

The damage would be worse. I have no doubt of that.

[Cephalopod]

So you plan on decieving him and living a lie for the rest of your marriage.

 

Good luck to you.

[GoldenR]

Barring the secrets I keep, I'm being the most attentive and loving wife I know how to be. How many men -- and I hope this isn't tmi -- get oral sex daily? I haven't ever said no to an advance, often initiate, and I am an excellent listener.

 

No, I don't plan to tell him. It would devastate everything we've worked toward. I just need to know how to live with myself and this knowledge and keep myself strong for him.

 

So you're rationalizing this as: as long as I give him good sex, I can do whatever I want with whoever I want. And what he doesn't know won't hurt him.

 

You have no reason not to do this again, so it's just a matter of time before more betrayal happens.

[oldlion]

Dealing with someone who has mental issues ( anxiety, suicidal thoughts) is totally different than dealing with someone who doesn't have these problems. My wife and I had to deal with a family member like this. Those that advise you to tell him because he deserves to know or it's his right to know so he can make his own decisions have no ideal what can come from such advice. They have never had to be on guard and watch someone they love to make sure they don't harm themselves. Or see their world spiral out of control because of something they can't handle. I have. Knowing the details of an affair (EA or PA) can hurt terribly, but if you have thoughts of suicide it can also kill. Your husband has already said he wishes that he had never known. He knows how he feels. If he ask questions then answer him. If he doesn't, then don't tell. Live with what you know and let him live without knowing if that is what he wants. He doesn't sound like a person that just has to dig until he knows everything. You know him better than anyone. Use your common sense when it comes to this. I wish you well.

[GoldenR]

In response to all of the concern due to his depression....I want to make sure I understand this:

 

You say, don't tell him bc you have to look out for his well being?

 

So, pray tell, why not look out for his well being from the get-go and not be unfaithful in the first place? There was sure no looking out for his well being when that was going on. Or do you only look out for his well being when it suits you to do so?

[standtall]

Zip it. IMHO, the whole truth is not always the best...particularly with a fragile spouse like you have. Just as long as it is done and over for good, there is no chance that this will come out, you're fine.

[bathtub-row]

The number of 'woulds' already says you're giving this advice in theory rather than from experience. And has he been given this choice? The damage has already been done.

 

I'm totally giving this advice from experience.

[road]

Usually at 6 months out from D day the BH feels secure enough that their WW is not going to leave them.

 

 

This can be the start of the anger phase which can last for another 6 months. During this time the BH will feel secure enough to start asking questions about the affair.

 

 

Do not trickle truth but be honest while being gentle and letting the BH control how much detail is given.

 

 

Example when the BH asks did you have sex with the OM the correct response would be yes.

 

 

The wrong answer would be yes I had sex with the OM x number of times and it was the best sex I ever had. His equipment was huge and that let me do things with the OM that I never did with you.

 

 

Both answers are truthful but one is outright cruel because all the BH asked for was did you have sex with the OM.

 

 

Let the BH peel away the truth in layers as peeling an onion.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am a FWW. My husband and i have been in reconciliation for 33 years.

 

I believe to have a successful reconciliation...a ws...must disclose. I chose to disclose right away...and unfortunately i had not read any books on the subject and i feel very strongly that i made some mistakes in the way i handled my situation.

 

When i disclosed...I did all the talking. I should have given the basic information...and then allowed my husband to ask the questions that were important to him...and then answered those questions as honestly as i could.

Instead....I gave entirely too much information...too quickly. So I caution others...to give the power back their betrayed...and allow them to LEAD the discussion. They will ask what they want to know.

 

I am not encouraging secrecy in any way shape or form....I am simply stating that...we as waywards...need to be sensitive to the needs of our betrayed...and allow them to process the information without bombarding them with too much too fast. Even if 6 months later...or 6 years later...they ask us a question. We should answer it honestly.

 

The pain of infidelity is a lifelong companion....You never "get over it". But you can learn to "live with it". the process of reconciliation...is forever. You do not wake up one day and proclaim...we are reconciled. It continues everyday...one day at a time.

 

The experts claim it takes 2-5 years...but in reality it takes a lifetime. Life after infidelity is forever changed....but it can be good. A marriage that survives infidelity...can be stronger....but it will forever carry the scar of battle.

 

My husband and I are approaching our 45th anniversary. We have a good marriage ....a wonderful relationship. But there is not a day that goes by...that we don't wish we could turn back time...and undo my affair. Thus...you learn to live with it. We have made many mistakes along the way...and it is our hope that by sharing here on loveshack...we help others to avoid those same mistakes.

 

Much advice is given here....an OP...must take the advice applicable to their situation...and simply graciously ignore the rest. No two infidelities are exactly the same.

 

I always recommend these things. Tell the truth. Read the book How to help your spouse heal from your affair by linda Macdonald. Seek therapy...individually and together....and see a lawyer to intelligently get your ducks in a row should your spouse seek divorce.

 

Best of luck to you.

[DKT3]

In my experience, there is a real danger in allowing the betrayed spouses to fill in the blanks. While many may attempt to outwardly avoid the situation, internally it's impossible.

 

Me personally, I had horrible images of her affair, it played in my mind like a two year long porno. In most cases I assumed worse case scenarios. When I finally got the full truth it was like "oh, is that all". Still very painful, but no where near as damaging as what I had put myself through.

 

As far as moving on without telling, not good odds if your goal goes beyond existing together.

Because of the already mentioned road blocks, him always wondering, and you always being fearful....how can you ever really expect to be happy?

[understand50]

Violince,

 

I think as others have stated, you gave him the broad story, if he asks specific questions be honest and answer. I would not volunteer. Mrs JA, and others, is right, let the BS take what they need, but give them what they ask for. I think you have handle this about right, past the EA in the first place. As for your guilt, it will be something you have to carry, he just may not be able to help. Use it to help keep to the straight and narrow going forward and being remorseful. Having guilt is part of being remorseful. This does show a positive thing about you. I would be much more worried, if you did not have any guilt. Use it to go forward, and become better. It will soon turn into regret, and remain.

 

I wish you luck....

[heartwhole]

I don't think he knows. What he saw in the chat was flirty but not overtly sexual. I have told him that we talked *about* sex, as a subject for discussion. He has said he found it difficult to believe that it wasn't sexual in nature but he eventually did come to believe it.

 

Just trying to figure out what happened . . . you were lying in this moment, right? At least by omission, because he says, "I have a hard time believing it wasn't sexual in nature" and you stay silent or even say, "Well, it wasn't." Or he said, "Was it sexual in nature?" and you said, "Well, we talked about sex," to mislead him into thinking you hadn't had cyber sex. You lied.

 

Personally, I think you need to give your husband the full picture. He has said things about wishing he didn't know and being OK with the OM's wife not knowing, but that's not the same as permission after the fact to excuse you lying when he DID ask. I agree that the BS has the right to the general gist of what happened and then the decision is theirs as to what details they need to know.

 

If you admit to the cyber sex and he says, lalalala and covers his ears, then by all means stop talking and leave it in the past. But you lied when he did ask, and that's why this bothers you. Because you're trying to rebuild on lies.

 

I don't think denial and rugsweeping are healthy coping mechanisms, so if that's what your husband is doing, it will come crashing down at some point.

 

For background, I discovered a long-distance EA that turned out to be a PA because my WH snuck her onto a business trip. I needed to know the basics -- did you send naked pictures, did you say 'I love you,' did you have cyber sex, did you have sex -- but not any details. I knew it wouldn't do me any good psychologically to have specifics.

 

It doesn't help that I still have very strong feelings for AP, and have for more than half my life (since college). My husband accepts that those are just part of me and says it's only the acting on the feelings that was wrong. I find it difficult to reconcile that in my own head. I feel like a monster.

 

I carry a torch for my high school boyfriend too. In fact on DD I told my husband, "I'll always have weird feelings for high school boyfriend but I don't communicate secretly with him!" There is a difference, IMO, between an emotional attachment that got frozen in time and between crossing the line when you are married. I can't help the fact that the my old boyfriend is the only other man I've ever bonded with or opened up to. I know that my feelings are rooted in memory, which is hazy and mutable, and not rooted in fact or in the present. I know they represent lost youth and a time when it was easy to get to know other people and our whole lives were ahead of us. I could go on waxing philosophical, but my point is simply that continuing to have and deal with those feelings is normal. Your husband is right that walking up to the line, testing it, and crossing it were the problems. Those were bad choices, but they don't make you a monster. The important thing now is to make better choices going forward.

[Violince]

So you're rationalizing this as: as long as I give him good sex, I can do whatever I want with whoever I want. And what he doesn't know won't hurt him.

 

You have no reason not to do this again, so it's just a matter of time before more betrayal happens.

 

That was in reply to Guildford's suggestion that I keep the secret and be a good wife. Obviously i don't justify keeping secrets with sex, or believe that sex is an excuse for bad behavior. Physical touch is his top love language, so it's important to him and he appreciates it; that's part of being a good wife in this relationship.

 

I have every reason not to do it again: I don't want to hurt him again.

 

You say, don't tell him bc you have to look out for his well being? So, pray tell, why not look out for his well being from the get-go and not be unfaithful in the first place? There was sure no looking out for his well being when that was going on. Or do you only look out for his well being when it suits you to do so?

That horse has left the stable. I had all the usual WS excuses. He'll never find out, it's just words, I want to do something for me, etc. I was never thinking about what would happen when he found out. The conversation began when he was in the midst of a depressive episode and i was feeling helpless in being unable to help him, unheard and lonely. Those are not excuses, but they were drivers in my seeking the attention of AP, legitimately as a friend at first, as someone who understood. The slide into inappropriate territory was still months ahead then. Although having now read "not just friends" I know that it was always going to be that trajectory.

[goodyblue]

And so-o-o-o, by your own description, they're sharing what they think her BH needs from their experiences as BSs, and you're sharing what you think from your experience as an OW. Hmmm, BS advice - OW advice. BS - OW. Which would YOU pick?

 

She isn't going to tell him so she needs to move on with her life and marriage and be happy in it. She needs to forgive herself.

[DKT3]

She isn't going to tell him so she needs to move on with her life and marriage and be happy in it. She needs to forgive herself.

 

But she can't move on,

 

I think the real issue here is op is being somewhat disingenuous about what her husband wants to know. Why?

 

If he didn't want to know then she would've never knew he found out. He confronted her with he information he found and she lied. The platform was there for her to be honest. Had he not wanted to know then he would have never confronted.

 

Now, it's in her better interest that he doesn't know,. But she struggles with it.

 

She is asking for a solution to a problem because she doesn't want the one that she knows is the answer. Sure she can put a bandaid on it, but it will only last a short time. Not everyone can live with this eating away, she is clearly one of those people.

[Violince]

She isn't going to tell him so she needs to move on with her life and marriage and be happy in it. She needs to forgive herself.

 

Yes. And that's where I need help. I need the actual, practical ways to deal with this so I can stop living in my head and become a healthier spouse for my husband, who deserves more than i can currently give him in my own depression.

[Violince]

But she can't move on,

 

I think the real issue here is op is being somewhat disingenuous about what her husband wants to know. Why?

 

If he didn't want to know then she would've never knew he found out. He confronted her with he information he found and she lied. The platform was there for her to be honest. Had he not wanted to know then he would have never confronted.

 

Now, it's in her better interest that he doesn't know,. But she struggles with it.

 

She is asking for a solution to a problem because she doesn't want the one that she knows is the answer. Sure she can put a bandaid on it, but it will only last a short time. Not everyone can live with this eating away, she is clearly one of those people.

 

He couldn't have not confronted me when he found out. He wouldn't have wanted to know had he not found out, but who could live with that knowledge and not confront?

 

I shouldn't have lied then. He was already in pain and I panicked, and having lied then, yes, further questions were me covering my ass. I didn't fully understand what I'd done until I read books and other forums. Now I feel like it's too late. I didn't intend to put the knife in the first time; telling him now means slowly pushing it into his chest while I look into his eyes, or at best, ripping open the wound that was healing. Is it really unreasonable for me to bear this so he doesn't have to?

[BluesPower]

I am sorry for you guys...

 

Look I have been on both sides of this issue, and I am afraid that this will blow up sooner or later.

 

If you have made your decision, I won't try to convince you otherwise. But, I will tell you some things that you will need to know.

 

If your husband is sick, you need to do everything you can do to get him real help. I understand how hard this is because I have done it. But, if you and H are staying married, some of that is your responsibility. You never, never know when someone will go off, never. Please take this seriously.

 

What will happen if he does find out that you have lied to him? What is you blurt it out during a horrible argument? What if he confesses to you that he knows what really happened?

 

You need to own your behavior more that you appear to be. You did not tell him the truth to save him, you did it to cover your ass. If you don't believe that now, if you are any kind of a decent person, you will.

 

You only think, and it is less that that, that you have an idea of how bad you have hurt your husband. The fact of the matter is unless you have been cheated on in a marriage, you never will be able to understand how much it hurts.

 

You think your affair is "Better" because you did not have sex? That is really debatable.

 

How are you going to help your spouse heal from your lying and behavior? You should really be thinking about that.

 

How are you going to fix the things in your marriage that allowed you to feel like it was your right to have an affair. How are you going to fix your marriage in general?

 

How long do you think it will be before you have another affair and the next one will probably be a "Physical Affair". No? You are above that, Right? Did you ever see yourself masturbating with your AP over the internet?

 

You will probably have another affair because really, H is a little crazy and basically you have not consequences for your behavior.

 

I really wish you luck with every thing.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Lying is never the answer... And we always do it to protect ourselves. But we also lie to ourselves by making statements like... I am doing this to protect them.

 

No.. We aren't. We lie or not to protect ourselves... And the sooner we confront that demon .. The faster we can move toward healing.

 

So the first person you need to stop lying to.. Is you. Once you are honest with yourself.. You can begin to be more open and honest with your spouse.

 

Self preservation is normal... Everyone does it. But for lasting reconciliation... You must build a foundation of honesty so that trust can be rebuilt. Trust built on lies will yet again crumble.

 

Please read the book I mentioned and ask your spouse to read it as well. It can open the doors of communication and understanding. Healing can begin for both of you. You must do the work.

 

Confess... Become totally transparent ... And work to heal the damage you have caused.

[OneLov]

I think Mrs. A's advice is on point; it gives the BS the choice.

[Mr. Lucky]

Yes. And that's where I need help. I need the actual, practical ways to deal with this so I can stop living in my head and become a healthier spouse for my husband, who deserves more than i can currently give him in my own depression.

 

This feeling you keep alluding to has an actual evolutionary value, it's there for a reason. It's designed to guide our conduct in healthy ways for the benefit of the species and, in your case, the relationship.

 

Want the feeling and resulting depression to go away? Tell the truth, do the right thing. Let your spouse make his own determination based on the facts. Not a difficult concept to explain or understand...

 

Mr. Lucky

[heartwhole]

That horse has left the stable. I had all the usual WS excuses. He'll never find out, it's just words, I want to do something for me, etc. I was never thinking about what would happen when he found out. The conversation began when he was in the midst of a depressive episode and i was feeling helpless in being unable to help him, unheard and lonely. Those are not excuses, but they were drivers in my seeking the attention of AP, legitimately as a friend at first, as someone who understood. The slide into inappropriate territory was still months ahead then. Although having now read "not just friends" I know that it was always going to be that trajectory.

 

What's so different now? You are getting a lot of responses here and on another forum saying that you are starting with a foregone conclusion and then filling in the blanks to justify it. It's the same thing you did when you "legitimately as a friend" reached out to a man you were once in love with as emotional support during a hard time in your marriage. You were able to connect the dots to make that OK, and look where it got you. I hope you'll stop justifying after the fact and start acting deliberately and thoughtfully, even when it's hard.

 

Secrecy allows things (like feelings for an old flame and guilt) to fester. It allows us to continue down a path that others would warn us about if we were honest with them. That's why honesty is an important part of reconciliation. It's not just for your husband's sake, though that's an important enough reason by itself. It's for your sake as well. When you let these things out into the air and sunshine, they often dissipate on their own. I have a feeling your old torch for your AP will burn a little less bright once you and your husband have to deal with the reality of your affair.

[merrmeade]

She isn't going to tell him so she needs to move on with her life and marriage and be happy in it. She needs to forgive herself.

Does she really? Why?

[merrmeade]

You know, I'm four years out and certain things just don't change. They don't change because a sympathetic, articulate WS writes complex posts that show depth and understanding for all angles of the affair experience. Big g-damn deal. She's still cheating him by lying to him in this melodramatic, condescending, self-imposed position of superiority that lets her make all the choices for them. Suicidal. Schizophrenic. I don't care. He has a right to know.

 

Do you know when it's okay to lie? When the BS is bed-ridden, quadriplegic, on a feeding tube and couldn't do anything about it if he knew. And even then, it should be damn hard for everybody to do it. That's what 'we' did for my BS brother whose wife diddled with my husband's diddle. Neither she nor my husband had much difficulty lying to him either or asking their children and mine to lie with them. So the whole family skipped right into lying and deception easy as pie - for the sake of the invalid BS who already had lost the fight to reclaim his human dignity. Yes, we were all saving the idea of his potential manhood for him but selling our own souls to do it.

 

But your suicidal spouse? Weren't we all suicidal at some point after d-day? I think it's an excuse.