How often OP leaves their spouse? Marrying the wrong person?

[Lois_Griffin]

Yeah, I was always wondering why people, especially men cheat. Why is that they don't divorce?

Why should they if an OW is willing to be there on the side? He gets the best of both worlds, so why would he leave?

[loveisanaction]

Girl, you shouldn’t be setting your mind on wanting a married man to leave his pregnant wife for you.

 

I get it. We all do things that we shouldn’t have. You fell for a married man and now you want him for yourself.

 

But have you even sat down and pondered what it is you’re actually wanting? You want a married man to leave his pregnant wife for you because you want him for yourself. You are wanting a child to grow up without both parents because you think that his Mother is the wrong person for his Father.

 

Love is not in taking it is in giving. Even if this man were to leave his wife and child for you, how would you be able to look at yourself in the mirror? How would you feel knowing that you were the reason his first family was split apart?

 

If the tables were turned and you were the pregnant wife, wouldn’t you want the other woman to back-off and stay away from your husband? Wouldn’t you want her to move on with her life and find a single and an available man? This is her husband we’re talking about and she is pregnant with his child; her husband and the child she is carrying may be all the family she has in the world.

 

Why are setting your mind on somebody else’s husband? Seriously! Please, show some compassion.

[cocorico]

I think that's poppycock. To suggest that 'no funding council' would put money into it might be so, but who cares about 'funding councils'? Research funding can come from any quarter. Doesn't make it unreliable, or 'wrong' either.

 

Actually yes, it does. Proper research is subjected to rigorous standards, which are maintained through a system of peer review. Here is a link to an accessible article on this.

 

Where is the evidence that Shirley Glass' (with her longstanding and highly experienced professional credentials) research methods are comparative to journalistic gossip? Exactly...there isn't.

 

What is 'proper research'? A broad and carefully constructed unbiased study that yields statistics to indicate an outcome. From what is read, she did hers without gossiping with other clinicians.

 

Who (aside from you) mentioned gossip? I merely equated her "research" with that done by journalists, who are - like her - not subject to rigorous standards when conducting what they pass off as research. If you want to consider that gossip, fair enough - I think it may be conducted a little more systematically than gossip, but I'm happy to be proven wrong on that.

[Cloudcuckoo]

to some, research is only "proper" if it reaches a conclusion they agree with.

 

Quite...we are all subject to days when we get out of bed the wrong side aren't we?

 

That's the pleasure of debate, one doesn't have to agree, but grumpy or not, 'manners maketh man' my dear Mummy used to say!

[central]

Plus, how often OPs actually divorce their spouses for an affair partners? Is there anyone who done that? If yes, how is your life going? Was it hard?

 

Statistics are difficult to find, and probably ballpark estimates at best.

 

 

... only 3 percent of men end up marrying their mistress, as Jan Halter writes in her 1988 book [COLOR=#2e7061]Quiet Desperation: The Truth About Successful Men[/COLOR]

 

 

Of course, how many mistresses want to marry, anyway? Many are in these relationships because they don't want the commitment and complications of marriage.

[cocorico]

I don't know whether or not the numbers have changed, but second, third and subsequent marriages have been reported to have a higher divorce rate, which would include marriages that start out as affairs.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201202/the-high-failure-rate-second-and-third-marriages

 

( not the best source, but a starting point)

 

http://www.patersons.ca/pdfs/Family%20Law/Divorce_Rates_and_Statistics_in_Canada.pdf

 

( this one is a better source )

 

I don't know why second and subsequent marriages tend to fail more often, but I suspect it may be because the person who is getting married the second time may not learn from their mistake sin the first marriage. This is why I would be very leery of a man or woman who blames all the problems in their marriage on their spouse, especially if i was an ow or om.

 

In many cases, a ws who blames their cheating or the entire state of their marriage shows little or no insight, and unless they get some heavy duty counseling or therapy, they may very well repeat the same mistakes again.

 

(Bolded) Apparently often due to blending families, difficulty negotiating appropriate boundaries with former spouses which creates conflict, and financial issues arising from financial commitments to children and former partners.

[elaine567]

I don't know why second and subsequent marriages tend to fail more often, but I suspect it may be because the person who is getting married the second time may not learn from their mistake sin the first marriage.

 

Yes, but there are also usually "complications" in a second or third marriage, children, an ex or two plus their friends/family, financial issues due to alimony/child support, lack of money, jealousy, trust issues if cheating was involved first time around.

The "bitter" divorcee attitude may spill over into the next marriage.

Also, the glue holding the relationship together, ie kids, extended family may not be as strong as in the first marriage and having gone through a divorce then another divorce may no longer hold much fear for them either.

[cocorico]

Statistics are difficult to find, and probably ballpark estimates at best.

 

 

... only 3 percent of men end up marrying their mistress, as Jan Halter writes in her 1988 book [COLOR=#2e7061]Quiet Desperation: The Truth About Successful Men[/COLOR]

 

 

Of course, how many mistresses want to marry, anyway? Many are in these relationships because they don't want the commitment and complications of marriage.

 

Jan Halper's study was not about the percentage of affairs that become marriages, it was about how unhappy successful businessmen are. During her study she found that, *of the successful businessmen she sampled*, 3% had affairs, left their BW, married their fAP and were still married to them 5 years later.

 

That is not 3% of MM who marry their fAP. That is 3% of "successful businessmen" (however defined by Jan Halper) - who, having M their fOW, were still M 5 years later. I'm not sure how many first marriages last 5 years or longer; I'm not sure how many second or subsequent marriages do. So I'm not sure how that percentage compares with the longevity of second and subsequent marriages, especially those of "successful businessmen" who, as Jan Halper established, tend to be rather unhappy individuals anyway.

[Ana-Iva]

My friend left his wife and 3 kids for his AP.

 

He was a dedicated father and it killed him to have to leave his kids, but he made sure he is in their daily life and spends a lot of time together. He is still today kicking himself for having done that to his kids, all of which are girls.

 

He said it took him 8 month to realize he loved his AP, and 1 year to realize he has to leave his wife and live with her. That was 5 years ago, they are still living together but not married.

[wmacbride]

Each couple divorces for different reasons. Some can learn from their first marriage and go on to remarry and it lasts a lifetime, but statistically,the odds are against it.

 

OP, have you ever asked your mm why he cheats on his wife? If he blame sit all on her, or doesn't see the role he plays in the dynamic, then I would be very cautious. Both play a part in the marriage, but only He is repsonible for his choice of what to do about it.

 

Think of it this way. His bs is not perfect, but nobody is. If he does leave to be with you, and you end up married, what will he do when you and he hit some bumps in the road? Will he see his part and be willing to work with you, or will he blame you and have another A?

 

As one author phrased it:

 

"When it comes to the second marriage divorce statistics, the same thing rings true about a marriage as it does with a first marriage or a fifth one: finding emotionally mature, well-matched people that are willing to work with you and you with them through past issues will help the marriage have a better chance of success."

(source-http://healthresearchfunding.org/55-surprising-divorce-statistics-second-marriages/)

 

Do you think your mm is emotionally mature and willing to accept the role he's playing in the trouble sin his first marriage? Be really honest with yourself, as if he is not doing so, then why would he act any differently in a marriage to you?

[heartwhole]

Statistics are hard to come by since many people will not admit to infidelity in a survey. But I think Shirley Glass has a large enough sample and enough of a work-around to the anonymity bit to have some sense of averages.

 

That said, of course, you can always find stories of couples marrying each other after starting as an affair. Most people know of a marriage that started that way. Most people also know of someone for whom birth control failed and resulted in a pregnancy. And if you Google, "Can I get pregnant on an IUD?" you will be bombarded with stories of people who did. But still, it's only 8 in 1,000 over five years who will. We all know a lot more people who had affairs and didn't get divorced than who did, and surely many affairs are never discovered, making the statistic even more lopsided.

 

In the OP's case, with MM's dating app and dating two women at once (I think?) and total willingness to cheat in a new marriage with a pregnant wife, I would put his chances of moving onto a successful, long-term relationship with the OP as slim. But I can't predict the future, of course.

 

I think it's great that you're asking the question, "How do I know this is love?" Because it's pretty serious to separate two parents who are expecting a baby if you're not sure.

[heartwhole]

(Bolded) Apparently often due to blending families, difficulty negotiating appropriate boundaries with former spouses which creates conflict, and financial issues arising from financial commitments to children and former partners.

 

Interesting that none of this mentions personal characteristics and coping mechanisms . . . it's all just dependent on the former spouse and children, huh?

[Lobe]

to some, research is only "proper" if it reaches a conclusion they agree with.

 

Yup, "confirmation bias" is the best thing ever

 

olivkaz, you need to do some seriously deep soul searching and decide if you can commit to a man who has demonstrated through his affair with you that he has poor boundaries. The litmus test comes when and if (big if) he divorces his wife for you and you're no longer able to live in fantasyland. What if he leaves skidmarks in his underwear and you're supposed to scrub them out? What if he hates the way you cook? What if the sex fizzles out because it's no longer forbidden and loses it's naughty lustre? Do you know what you want to do about kids? retirement? long-term financial plans? Where will you live, how will his divorce impact his life and in turn impact yours?

 

Making a transition from affair fantasyland to reality isn't easy - the taint of reality puts a seriously dark stain on the rose-tinted glasses. Whether you like the research or not, statistically neither second marriages nor affairs win any plans for longevity - you will definitely find people here who say yes, it worked for us and we are very happy but the vast majority will tell you, it's doomed. Nothing anyone here can tell you will affect your outcome - that's all up to you and the MM. But it's all speculation at this point - him saying he is almost ready to leave his wife is a hollow promise most of the OW here have heard time and time again....

[cocorico]

Interesting that none of this mentions personal characteristics and coping mechanisms . . . it's all just dependent on the former spouse and children, huh?

 

Personal characteristics and coping mechanisms are common to first as well as subsequent marriages. They're not unique to second and subsequent marriages, so wouldn't make second and subsequent marriages fail *more often* than first ones.

[cocorico]

 

olivkaz, you need to do some seriously deep soul searching and decide if you can commit to a man who has demonstrated through his affair with you that he has poor boundaries. The litmus test comes when and if (big if) he divorces his wife for you and you're no longer able to live in fantasyland. What if he leaves skidmarks in his underwear and you're supposed to scrub them out? What if he hates the way you cook?

 

 

oliv, I don't buy the whole "affair fog" line. But I do think you are overlooking some major concerns with this guy. He strikes me as good fling material, but not the kind of guy you want anything serious with.

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Edited August 22, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
unproductive to topic ~T

[aileD]

My husbands been having an affair for a year and a half with with his mistress.

 

He destroyed her life and her family and friends all hate her now. She is living in a car. But she loves him.

 

He left me a month ago. He's leaving her this week.

 

Do they ever leave their wives?? Only if they get divorced......so if he's not then NO

[Lobe]

I am so glad I've never had a R where I'm expected to wash someone's dirty underwear, or cook for them. I guess we're still in fantasy land, where we treat each other with respect.

 

oliv, I don't buy the whole "affair fog" line. But I do think you are overlooking some major concerns with this guy. He strikes me as good fling material, but not the kind of guy you want anything serious with.

 

My BFF once dated a guy who expected her to clean his skid-marked underwear. Instead, she tie-dyed them all with brown so they looked sh*t-stained all over

 

OP - don't get caught up in semantics - "affair fog" is often used interchangeably or is merely a component of intense limerence, chemical/hormonal addiction, rose-coloured glasses... the point of the term is to identify the fact that the feelings that occur in an affair more often than not cannot survive outside the affair "bubble." All the future-faking is "fake" until and unless he leaves his wife and it's essential that you recognize the fact that he is at least 50% of the reason his marriage if failing - what has he told you about why he is unhappy with his current relationship?

[DKT3]

Statistics are hard to come by since many people will not admit to infidelity in a survey. But I think Shirley Glass has a large enough sample and enough of a work-around to the anonymity bit to have some sense of averages.

 

That said, of course, you can always find stories of couples marrying each other after starting as an affair. Most people know of a marriage that started that way. Most people also know of someone for whom birth control failed and resulted in a pregnancy. And if you Google, "Can I get pregnant on an IUD?" you will be bombarded with stories of people who did. But still, it's only 8 in 1,000 over five years who will. We all know a lot more people who had affairs and didn't get divorced than who did, and surely many affairs are never discovered, making the statistic even more lopsided.

 

In the OP's case, with MM's dating app and dating two women at once (I think?) and total willingness to cheat in a new marriage with a pregnant wife, I would put his chances of moving onto a successful, long-term relationship with the OP as slim. But I can't predict the future, of course.

 

I think it's great that you're asking the question, "How do I know this is love?" Because it's pretty serious to separate two parents who are expecting a baby if you're not sure.

Affairs rarely go undiscovered, cheating such as ONS or short flings many times go undiscovered.

 

Affairs set off spider senses in the BS, them not confronting it or facing it doesn't mean undiscovered. I'm guessing that the vast majority of BS notice changes in the WS. Then we start playing the she/he wouldn't game.

 

I personally noticed many odd things but it was maybe a year after my first thought that it hit me over the head.

 

Statistically speaking an average of 9% of MM leave the marriage for the OW, roughly 20% of them end up in long term relationship with OW. 16% of MW leave the marriage for OM roughly 10% end up in long term relationships with OM. Most striking to me was that 90% of MM stay gone, while 3/4 of MW attempt to return to the BH within the first year...This according to a German base study conducted over a ten year period from 2003-2013.

[stilltrying16]

My BFF once dated a guy who expected her to clean his skid-marked underwear. Instead, she tie-dyed them all with brown so they looked sh*t-stained all over

 

 

 

T/J: Lobe, you totally made that up!

 

If you didn't, your friend is a goddess.

 

I don't understand why women always do men's laundry anyway. I'm from a different culture, supposedly a more patriarchal one, but not one person I know from my culture would dream of doing laundry for the husband. Why can't he do his own ****ing laundry? [/T/]

[goodyblue]

 

 

T/J: Lobe, you totally made that up!

 

If you didn't, your friend is a goddess.

 

I don't understand why women always do men's laundry anyway. I'm from a different culture, supposedly a more patriarchal one, but not one person I know from my culture would dream of doing laundry for the husband. Why can't he do his own ****ing laundry? [/T/]

 

I do my laundry, he does his, we both do the kids.

[olivkazp]

"Love" is difficult to quantify, but compatibility is easier to suss out.

 

Forget about all the "love" elements - the butterflies , the going weak at the knees, the excitement, the tingling, the sex and concentrate on who he is as a person.

Are you and he compatible? Do you like the same things? Are your goals in life similar? Do you have "fun" or is it mainly about sex?

Is he easy to be with or do you always have to mind your Ps and Qs?

Is he laid back or does he have a short fuse?

 

Is he a go getter, a workaholic, an average joe or a lazy slob?

Is he a socialite with loads of friends who always wants to party, or a person who is obsessed by a sport or a hobby,or someone who just loves Netflix, video games and his sofa and never wants to go anywhere, or is he a loner who always wants "space".

Can you live with the real him?

 

You know he is a cheater, a man who is cheating on his pregnant wife, could you ever really trust him, or will history repeat itself? Men cheating whilst their wife is pregnant is not unusual.

Even if he divorced tomorrow, his kid and his ex wife will be forever in your lives, can you live with that?

Do you want kids? As he already has a kid, he may not want any more.

 

There is a lot more than just "love" to think about here.

 

It may be a huge ego boost to think he is getting a divorce, but is he really and even if he is, he may just be using you as an excuse to leave his marriage. You may just be providing a soft landing. Do not forget some men "love" their OW, but do not see her as "relationship/marriage material" - be aware.

 

If indeed you have little in common apart from "love" bubble , then the likelihood is, that it will all fold as soon as the bubble bursts.

 

I really like this post. I totally agree with your point of view. It's a different side of the story.

 

In this case, I know him very well. We're more than lovers, we are friends. We're here for each other, I can rely on him and vice versa. We are very close. My life will definitely be empty without him. We make each other laugh and he always tries to comfort me when I'm down. He said that "it's his duty to make sure I'm happy". And he always check on me. We are very compatible, we share same interests, we almost never argue because he's very laid back and accept me the way I am. We piss off one another sometimes but go through it. He always knows when something is wrong and we work on it, we actually communicate. He works a lot, he's ambitious and smart. So do I. We're both very socialite and go well with people. And I'd talk about it for hours..... Basically, he saw me happy, down, upset, angry... I think we both seen each other in every possible situation... I know the real him and that's why I fell for him. When he comes to visit me, we don't always have sex. We love each other's company.

 

Ok now, I do trust him which maybe is unusual...(?) Why do I trust him while he actually cheats on his wife? Because I know there's no one else. I don't even have a little fear of him cheating on me. I'm different, if he cheats on me... I will let him go, it'd definitely his loss, not mine. It'd obviously hurt, but I won't cry over him forever.

 

Another thing, I'd fully accept that his wife and baby will always be in his life and I'm able to help them, to be for them. I don't hate anyone, I accept the situation as it is.

 

And finally, let's talk a little about his wife. I've never met her personally, we don't talk much about her. From what I know, he really respect her... I am not sure if he still lovers her, or if he ever did. And yes, I'm a little surprised with the fact that he wants to be with me. I was secretly hoping about us being together, but always thought he will never leave his spouse. I know he does things with me that they don't do, I know that she goes nuts very often, we both very similar women but he "sees in me and feels for me something he never saw and felt for anyone ever before", and it may be the case.

 

I know I want him, I don't want anyone else. I don't even look at other guys and there's plenty of them around me. No one is as attractive and interesting as my MM (in my head, of course). I want to build a family with him, help in raising their children and be happy. And if he decides to stay with his wife, I'll accept it, too.

 

So, I actually think it's a real thing.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I really like this post. I totally agree with your point of view. It's a different side of the story.

 

In this case, I know him very well. We're more than lovers, we are friends. We're here for each other, I can rely on him and vice versa. We are very close. My life will definitely be empty without him. We make each other laugh and he always tries to comfort me when I'm down. He said that "it's his duty to make sure I'm happy". And he always check on me. We are very compatible, we share same interests, we almost never argue because he's very laid back and accept me the way I am. We piss off one another sometimes but go through it. He always knows when something is wrong and we work on it, we actually communicate. He works a lot, he's ambitious and smart. So do I. We're both very socialite and go well with people. And I'd talk about it for hours..... Basically, he saw me happy, down, upset, angry... I think we both seen each other in every possible situation... I know the real him and that's why I fell for him. When he comes to visit me, we don't always have sex. We love each other's company.

 

Ok now, I do trust him which maybe is unusual...(?) Why do I trust him while he actually cheats on his wife? Because I know there's no one else. I don't even have a little fear of him cheating on me. I'm different, if he cheats on me... I will let him go, it'd definitely his loss, not mine. It'd obviously hurt, but I won't cry over him forever.

 

Another thing, I'd fully accept that his wife and baby will always be in his life and I'm able to help them, to be for them. I don't hate anyone, I accept the situation as it is.

 

And finally, let's talk a little about his wife. I've never met her personally, we don't talk much about her. From what I know, he really respect her... I am not sure if he still lovers her, or if he ever did. And yes, I'm a little surprised with the fact that he wants to be with me. I was secretly hoping about us being together, but always thought he will never leave his spouse. I know he does things with me that they don't do, I know that she goes nuts very often, we both very similar women but he "sees in me and feels for me something he never saw and felt for anyone ever before", and it may be the case.

 

I know I want him, I don't want anyone else. I don't even look at other guys and there's plenty of them around me. No one is as attractive and interesting as my MM (in my head, of course). I want to build a family with him, help in raising their children and be happy. And if he decides to stay with his wife, I'll accept it, too.

 

So, I actually think it's a real thing.

 

I believe you. I believe you love him. I do.

 

Here's the thing - he's not available. So what are you going to do about it? What do you mean, you will accept it if he stays with his wife? You will walk or be on the side long term?

[olivkazp]

Women cheat because they want love; men cheat because they want sex.

 

Hmm, I must disagree with this one. It's generalization while no man or woman is the same. My sister cheated on her husband, but all she ever wanted was sex and money. My male friend cheated on his wife because she didn't treat him well and he was looking for a female friend with intention of falling in love with her. That's only two examples but there's a lot more.

[olivkazp]

You will walk or be on the side long term?

 

I don't know. Time will show.

 

And I don't know if I love him because I don't know what love is.

[olivkazp]

Note you said, "According to his words." Until he takes action, it really means nothing.

 

Most of the OW heard these words, yet most didn't end up with their xMM.

 

If you explore this conversation, you'll likely hear, "I wish, someday, or as soon as ...... My kid graduates, my mother dies, or my wife gets a job.

 

I'll keep it in mind.