About to hit an ugly divorce... [update: still together, but separated, he raped me]

[mrs rubble]

Kid's are 9 and 3, and will most likely not turn out to be abusive. They treat me like a Queen, and I think you can get a good analysis of how someone would treat their girlfriend based on how they treat their mother. They call me a diamond, and pick me flowers all the time. My husband loves his Mother, but would never go out of his way to be there for her, especially if medical bills were a factor.

 

That said, the situation that happened to your son at twelve scares me. My oldest son and my husband have clashed often, and I worry about this sort of thing happening. It's probably the main reason I haven't divorced. His temper is not as controllable as some people, and he treats my youngest (more sporty and similar to him) differently, probably due to less understanding. But, a good guy at heart so I'm torn on this.

 

Make sure you have a talk with your older boy and tell him that it's not ok for anyone to hurt him in anyway- even (mom and) dad, and that if he's scared or gets hurt he can ring the police. If he knows he has your permission and approval to ring the police he's more likely to do it if he gets into a situation he's unhappy with.

 

You really can't judge how your boy's will turn out right now. It's great they show so much affection towards you now, but as you said their father is a talented manipulator, so was my ex husband.

My ex manipulated the courts into allowing him unsupervised access despite him being charged with assault on my other son.

He then brainwashed my 7yo into believing, that his brother and I had wrecked his (fathers) life and stolen "his" house off him, he told him he was going to kill his brother, so to help (dad) out the youngest started attacking his brother and I. It was a long battle through this phase and one I almost gave up on, but it was well worth it to see how emotionally strong and moral both these boys are now.

[NHappy]

I'm not dealing with anything that extreme. But, I'm dealing with more emotional abuse than anything right now. I told him since we have decided to separate, I don't want to have sex with him anymore, and he says that's not my choice. All I want is to have him out of my life. I feel controlled, and my self-esteem is lower than it ever has been, and he behaves completely differently when we are out in public than when we are home.

 

I'm honestly not afraid of him hitting me again. He knows I would call the cops in a second. I don't think he would seriously hurt my son now, but he has a temper worse than anyone's I have ever seen, although it flares very rarely. It's gotten better with time, significantly. When I first met him, there was a hole in his closet door that was covered by a picture- he later admitted to me he had punched through the door because his ex-girlfriend took her best friend to a concert instead of him- yet, he blames me for when he beat me while I was pregnant. He says I put him in a situation where he has negative feelings, and he is forced to. But, honestly, all I want is space. I beg him for it, and can't handle the control anymore.

 

Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's help on here. I'm so stuck, but appreciate at least knowing there are other people out there that have dealt with similar, ...or worse. Wish the best to all of you...

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't want to have sex with him anymore, and he says that's not my choice.

 

What?!? Does he realize sex without your consent is rape, married or not?

 

Mr. Lucky

[amaysngrace]

Has anyone else felt just completely numb after dealing with so much, that all you desire is to be able to feel emotions again- ANY emotions, good or bad?

 

Feelings aren't right or wrong....you feel what you feel. Maybe you're numbed up because feeling it all would be too overwhelming and would prevent you from accomplishing what you need to get done.

 

Go easy on yourself. You've been through a lot and still have much on your plate.

 

Just keep going through the motions. You'll get there.

[elaine567]

I'm not dealing with anything that extreme. But, I'm dealing with more emotional abuse than anything right now. I told him since we have decided to separate, I don't want to have sex with him anymore, and he says that's not my choice. All I want is to have him out of my life. I feel controlled, and my self-esteem is lower than it ever has been, and he behaves completely differently when we are out in public than when we are home.

 

I'm honestly not afraid of him hitting me again. He knows I would call the cops in a second. I don't think he would seriously hurt my son now, but he has a temper worse than anyone's I have ever seen, although it flares very rarely. It's gotten better with time, significantly. When I first met him, there was a hole in his closet door that was covered by a picture- he later admitted to me he had punched through the door because his ex-girlfriend took her best friend to a concert instead of him- yet, he blames me for when he beat me while I was pregnant. He says I put him in a situation where he has negative feelings, and he is forced to. But, honestly, all I want is space. I beg him for it, and can't handle the control anymore.

 

Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's help on here. I'm so stuck, but appreciate at least knowing there are other people out there that have dealt with similar, ...or worse. Wish the best to all of you...

 

The only reason he doesn't hit you any more is because he is in control without the need for violence.

That beating episode coloured your whole relationship. The threat of that happening again is enough to keep you in line and to keep you bending over backwards to appease him when he gets in the least bit irritated. Your sons will feel the same need to appease him to stop Daddy getting angry.

 

His flashes of temper may not always even come from a place of anger, but from a need to control the situation at home. Men like this rarely go about shouting at and beating up other people, it is only at home they do this.

These outbursts are happening less frequently because he doesn't need to exert control too much any longer. Now, he just needs to whisper, "Jump" and you jump, so there is no need to yell.

 

You are numb because he has essentially broken you, in the same way we break horses. A horse is a huge animal, it could kill us in a second if it wanted to, but we use psychology to make it do our bidding.

The unbroken horse is dangerous, it fights back and gets upset when it is placed under control. We humans manipulate its fear so that it thinks it is helpless and it will do what we want it to do.

Once "broken", it reaches a stage where it will accept just about anything, it is numb. We then condition it, with the carrot or the stick.

The rider uses a series of control tactics, voice, hand, reins, body language to make sure it does what he wants it to do, on command.

 

Your man has done the same, early doors he broke you, by showing you what he was capable of, if you cross him. Now, he just needs to start looking like he is getting irritated and you know the consequences can be dire, so you act accordingly to defuse the situation and give him his own way. He knows that and will be taking advantage of the situation.

 

Forget about him being your "best friend", believe me, he is not your friend. Investigate "Trauma bonding".

[elaine567]

You really can't judge how your boy's will turn out right now. It's great they show so much affection towards you now, but as you said their father is a talented manipulator, so was my ex husband.

 

I knew a man once whose mother was beaten by his father and he was also beaten badly when he was a teenager.

He didn't really like his father obviously, but the person he really despised was his mother for not protecting him and taking him out of the situation.

Maybe that was due to some conditioned misogyny due to his upbringing and seeing his abusive father as his role model, I do not know, but he actually had some respect for his father, but none at all for his mother, who he refused to even see once he left home.

 

To me at the time, that sounded completely off the wall thinking as his mother was also a victim just like he was, but maybe he was right in a way. She was the adult and he was a child, her duty was to protect him from being beaten up by his violent father, and she failed to do that.

 

Raising children in toxic situations, damages them.

 

Here in the OPs case, having an abusive short-fuse father and a "numb" mother cannot really be seen to be a good thing for the kids.

[NHappy]

I knew a man once whose mother was beaten by his father and he was also beaten badly when he was a teenager.

He didn't really like his father obviously, but the person he really despised was his mother for not protecting him and taking him out of the situation.

Maybe that was due to some conditioned misogyny due to his upbringing and seeing his abusive father as his role model, I do not know, but he actually had some respect for his father, but none at all for his mother, who he refused to even see once he left home.

 

To me at the time, that sounded completely off the wall thinking as his mother was also a victim just like he was, but maybe he was right in a way. She was the adult and he was a child, her duty was to protect him from being beaten up by his violent father, and she failed to do that.

 

Raising children in toxic situations, damages them.

 

Here in the OPs case, having an abusive short-fuse father and a "numb" mother cannot really be seen to be a good thing for the kids.

 

I get this; I grew up in a similar situation, but with my Mom's boyfriends' after my Dad being the abusive ones. I still resent her for it, although I think a lot of the reason was because that they weren't my Dad.

 

This isn't really identical to the situation I am currently in. My husband was physically abusive in a way that could have caused real damage only twice or so throughout ten years. His temper has become overblown a few times, but he is also a really good, happy-go-lucky type of person.

 

I do appreciate your advice. And, you're right, I'm completely numb now. But I'm also very stuck and I've weighed my options...my kids are not at immediate risk and this situation is better than any alternative.

[NHappy]

What?!? Does he realize sex without your consent is rape, married or not?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Apparently not, because he followed through with this the exact night that you posted this. But, I wasn't injured, I was sleeping naked next to him, and even though I clearly said 'no' repeatedly, is that even rape in that type of situation?

 

Either way, I think he thinks he is above the law in that situation, possibly based on the Scientology associations. And, he was so sweet afterwards, that he somehow effectively made me feel guilty for what he did. I'm dealing with this back and forth of love and hate, and it's really making things dysfunctional... We're still living together and sleeping in the same bed, which doesn't make things easier.

[NHappy]

Nhappy...Sorry to hear about all of this. You really sound scared, bullied, and are putting yourself down....a symptom of low self esteem. At a minimum, get an attorney. As far as libel and defamation, not a chance, posting to an anonymous forum doesn't affect anyone financially...which he would have to prove, that your posting here costs him business. That is next to impossible under ideal conditions.

 

He is bullying you into inaction....is there a close relative that can help?

 

Not a one...I was emancipated at a young age due to counter-productive family. There are people I could reach out to in my family, but many of these are also people who have screwed me over, which leads to a difficulty in seeing my husband's actions as 'bad'. I've been through so much crap at this point I feel like I don't care anymore.

 

If I bring up the times he beat me, he tells me "he's being attacked. He's being threatened."

 

He's suggesting that I am attacking his character for bringing up these situations, that I label him a Monster for just a couple of incidents. But, I'm bringing up concrete incidents, not incidents that he denies, and explaining how they hurt me and basically made my self-esteem lower than it has ever been. And, he makes me feel so guilty for even speaking my pain that I can't hold him accountable.

 

Does anyone have a little bit of psychopath that they could lend me right now? Because I could probably really benefit from hating my husband at this point, but can't see this from a non-civil perspective mainly because it doesn't make sense. I'm starting to hate him, and if he sees any depression on my part or feeling defeated it seems to give him serotonin. I'm at my wits end.

[Mr. Lucky]

Apparently not, because he followed through with this the exact night that you posted this. But, I wasn't injured, I was sleeping naked next to him, and even though I clearly said 'no' repeatedly, is that even rape in that type of situation?

 

Of course it is. At least in the US, sexual interaction requires consent.

 

We're still living together and sleeping in the same bed, which doesn't make things easier.

 

You seem strangely passive and ambivalent. Isn't where you sleep up to you?

 

Either way, I think he thinks he is above the law in that situation, possibly based on the Scientology associations.

 

You'll have to explain...

 

Mr. Lucky

[standtall]

Not happy...you are such a bullied prisoner, and you don't even know it...kinda like the Stockholm syndrome..like the polygamist sects in Utah, and the Scientologist...you need to escape.

[NHappy]

Of course it is. At least in the US, sexual interaction requires consent.

 

You seem strangely passive and ambivalent. Isn't where you sleep up to you?

 

Yes. But, we only have one bed and have not undergone the full separation process yet, so I don't have a choice. And, you're right, I'm passive. I'm so numb and detached right now it's ridiculous. I've been dealing with the same conversations and issues for so many years now that being single sounds like a godsend.

 

You'll have to explain...

 

Re: the Scientology association, this is more my clarification of why he would interpret rape and physical abuse as okay. He seems to feel like even if I call the police on him if he did hurt me again, it would be unproductive, and this is my assumption considering how they have a reputation to go against people in the legal process. This is just an assumption, however, and should be taken as such. He's always been 'immune' to liability in a way that confuses me...

 

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You seem strangely passive and ambivalent. Isn't where you sleep up to you?

 

Yes. But, we only have one bed and have not undergone the full separation process yet, so I don't have a choice. And, you're right, I'm passive. I'm so numb and detached right now it's ridiculous. I've been dealing with the same conversations and issues for so many years now that being single sounds like a godsend.

 

You'll have to explain...

 

Re: the Scientology association, this is more my clarification of why he would interpret rape and physical abuse as okay. He seems to feel like even if I call the police on him if he did hurt me again, it would be unproductive, and this is my assumption considering how they have a reputation to go against people in the legal process. This is just an assumption, however, and should be taken as such. He's always been 'immune' to liability in a way that confuses me...

[Mr. Lucky]

Yes. But, we only have one bed and have not undergone the full separation process yet, so I don't have a choice. And, you're right, I'm passive. I'm so numb and detached right now it's ridiculous. I've been dealing with the same conversations and issues for so many years now that being single sounds like a godsend.

 

You don't have a sofa? Two chairs to push together? A sleeping bag? Forgive me if I'm assuming too much, just can't imagine not feeling safe in my own home and bedroom.

 

Re: the Scientology association, this is more my clarification of why he would interpret rape and physical abuse as okay. He seems to feel like even if I call the police on him if he did hurt me again, it would be unproductive, and this is my assumption considering how they have a reputation to go against people in the legal process. This is just an assumption, however, and should be taken as such. He's always been 'immune' to liability in a way that confuses me...

 

Scientology's well-earned reputation for clogging up the system occurs in civil court. Sexual assault and domestic violence are criminal matters and taken seriously by local police departments and DA's.

 

Again, I apologize if I'm advocating something you're not comfortable doing...

 

Mr. Lucky

[mrs rubble]

Not a one...I was emancipated at a young age due to counter-productive family. There are people I could reach out to in my family, but many of these are also people who have screwed me over, which leads to a difficulty in seeing my husband's actions as 'bad'. I've been through so much crap at this point I feel like I don't care anymore.

 

If I bring up the times he beat me, he tells me "he's being attacked. He's being threatened."

 

He's suggesting that I am attacking his character for bringing up these situations, that I label him a Monster for just a couple of incidents. But, I'm bringing up concrete incidents, not incidents that he denies, and explaining how they hurt me and basically made my self-esteem lower than it has ever been. And, he makes me feel so guilty for even speaking my pain that I can't hold him accountable.

 

Does anyone have a little bit of psychopath that they could lend me right now? Because I could probably really benefit from hating my husband at this point, but can't see this from a non-civil perspective mainly because it doesn't make sense. I'm starting to hate him, and if he sees any depression on my part or feeling defeated it seems to give him serotonin. I'm at my wits end.

 

Document your grievances. Write down times, dates and descriptions of insidences that make you uncomfortable or scared.

If you have no family or close friends who can help you out, you should look for a shelter to go to. Even if you're not experiencing physical abuse, the fear you describe is classic emotional abuse and in my experience just as damaging as physical abuse.

Don't make any more excuses for his behaviour. Keep yourself safe.

[NHappy]

You don't have a sofa? Two chairs to push together? A sleeping bag? Forgive me if I'm assuming too much, just can't imagine not feeling safe in my own home and bedroom.

 

Scientology's well-earned reputation for clogging up the system occurs in civil court. Sexual assault and domestic violence are criminal matters and taken seriously by local police departments and DA's.

 

Again, I apologize if I'm advocating something you're not comfortable doing...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I don't think I could turn him in, and we do have a couch. We are in the process of trying to figure out an alternate situation, and he did apologize.

 

When it comes to Scientology...I've been to a wedding at the church with an LA judge and his brother's wife has bragged about her brother being a highway patrol officer. Not that I really have anything to worry about, but I am apprehensive about the the affiliation and their biases considering the situation w/ Nicole Kidman, etc...

[NHappy]

Does anyone have any additional advice? Has anyone tried Gwenyth Paltrow's separation program? Finances aren't a huge issue because my husband doesn't have any money (I'm more concerned about ending up supporting him, as I have done during one of my pregnancies) but the kids are a HUGE factor here, and not one I am willing to risk.

[Just a Guy]

Hi NHappy, I read through most of your thread, skimming over some of your posts and that of others. In normal course I read through an entire thread and do not like to miss any thing so as to have a clear picture of what a situation is all about. However I think I have got the gist of your thread here to be able to give my response. After reading through many of your posts I get the feeling that whatever has happened between you and your husband, you seem to be quite in love with him and I guess he is too. I say this because I have noticed that whenever someone has something negative to say about him you jump to his defense immediately. You seem to be very loyal to him which indicates a measure of love more than I have seen on this forum where people are involved in infidelity and separation issues. I think more than anything else, you are more hurt than out of love or indifferent towards him. The other problem seems to me to be that the two of you are not able to communicate effectively with each other. You have said often in your post that your husband is good when he is not in a temper or agitated. Some of the problems may also be on your side. He may be looking for something from you which he is not getting.

 

I don't know. It would be sad to throw away a marriage just because of petulant attitudes on either side if true love does exist some where in the mix. Maybe he needs to attend anger management sessions apart from both of you attending marriage counselling. He may be a lost soul who is looking for a way to be happy and is unable to do so. You too, could be living with your issues which need to be addressed. Both of you have had troubled childhoods and the trauma that imposes on a child gets carried over to adulthood. I would suggest that you and your husband at least attend some marriage counselling sessions to see where the problems lie. You may be pleasantly surprised at the results. At the moment I can only think of this but I am certain in my mind that your marriage is salvageable and too precious to just throw in the dustbin. Warm wishes!

[UnbreakMyHeart]

Hi NHappy, I read through most of your thread, skimming over some of your posts and that of others. In normal course I read through an entire thread and do not like to miss any thing so as to have a clear picture of what a situation is all about. However I think I have got the gist of your thread here to be able to give my response. After reading through many of your posts I get the feeling that whatever has happened between you and your husband, you seem to be quite in love with him and I guess he is too. I say this because I have noticed that whenever someone has something negative to say about him you jump to his defense immediately. You seem to be very loyal to him which indicates a measure of love more than I have seen on this forum where people are involved in infidelity and separation issues. I think more than anything else, you are more hurt than out of love or indifferent towards him. The other problem seems to me to be that the two of you are not able to communicate effectively with each other. You have said often in your post that your husband is good when he is not in a temper or agitated. Some of the problems may also be on your side. He may be looking for something from you which he is not getting.

 

I don't know. It would be sad to throw away a marriage just because of petulant attitudes on either side if true love does exist some where in the mix. Maybe he needs to attend anger management sessions apart from both of you attending marriage counselling. He may be a lost soul who is looking for a way to be happy and is unable to do so. You too, could be living with your issues which need to be addressed. Both of you have had troubled childhoods and the trauma that imposes on a child gets carried over to adulthood. I would suggest that you and your husband at least attend some marriage counselling sessions to see where the problems lie. You may be pleasantly surprised at the results. At the moment I can only think of this but I am certain in my mind that your marriage is salvageable and too precious to just throw in the dustbin. Warm wishes!

 

I hate to sound rude but honestly, you may want to go and read all of her posts

 

He bullies the kids, speaks to them like dogs, reckons he's above the law and has sex with her when she clearly says no. That is statutory rape and a little more than a petulant attitude

[Mr. Lucky]

Finances aren't a huge issue because my husband doesn't have any money (I'm more concerned about ending up supporting him, as I have done during one of my pregnancies) but the kids are a HUGE factor here, and not one I am willing to risk.

 

How woud you be risking the kids by separating? At some point, you have to put an end to this...

 

Mr. Lucky

[NHappy]

I hate to sound rude but honestly, you may want to go and read all of her posts

 

He bullies the kids, speaks to them like dogs, reckons he's above the law and has sex with her when she clearly says no. That is statutory rape and a little more than a petulant attitude

 

It's so much more beyond that. I don't even care about the other time, but that time I was pregnant I will never forgive him for and this is the last straw. He has no problem lying though, so doing anything about this would be a wash. He does not think he is in any regards someone who can be held accountable by the law, and I could see him changing the story quickly considering the differences between. I don't stand a chance if I even try to protect myself. I just need to figure out how I can get strategically out of this situation without putting my kids at harm.

 

You're right, I sound like an idiot if you put all my posts together. I am intentionally avoiding looking over the past posts.

 

The funny thing is, I always considered abused women as weaker for not doing something about it. I'm now in the same situation, but can't get out of it (mostly due to finances and/or risking the kids- not a risk I'd take) and possibly deserve this to some degree. The first date he took me on was a fast food restaurant, and I found pictures in his computer from when we first met of me-- two months before we had met. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but he now reads my diary without my permission, lies constantly, and has even read all my messages on this forum. He had a picture covering a hole he punched out of his closet at his Mom's house when we first met- a hole he made when he was upset about his ex. I should have known better.

 

I am taking measures to try and undergo the separation as easy as possible, without hurting him or anyone. I spoke with my family, and a couple of them said they will fly out and be there for me and the kids at some level. I'm more concerned about the psychological aspect. I keep blaming myself for not being smarter before we had kids together, which I know is stupid. There were a lot of warning signs I should have looked at.

 

Emotionally, I'm already undergoing the separation process even though we live together. I'm becoming completely numb, and I think that will be helpful.

I guess I should be asking if anyone has any tips on the emotional process of this more than anything.

Edited September 28, 2016 by NHappy

[NHappy]

Update: we are still together, but separated. A couple of months ago, he raped me. I refused to have sex with him due to the separation, and he forced himself on me. I tried to fight him off, but the only defense was honestly biting him. I didn't realize how weak I was until this point. He hasn't done this since then, but has 'sort of' from time to time. (I say no, he says he can't help himself, and I've given up bothering trying anymore) We still sleep in the same bed and are just familiar with each other, so it's weird not to. It's become pretty dysfunctional, though, and I haven't felt happy around him in over a year. I've lost interest, mainly due to past experiences but I don't feel like I have the time for this type of conflict.

 

Has anyone else felt like that? So tired of relationship issues that you just want to give up on them and don't feel anything anymore? My family is not there at all...had to emancipate myself at 16 due to abusive scenarios imposed by my Mother, and sisters are all busy with their lives and none have been there for my kids despite my going out of my way to be there for them during their upbringing.

 

I'm realizing divorce is not only expensive, it's time consuming. I'd never be okay with my husband having half custody, so I see a very lengthy court battle if this proceeds. But, he wants to get a small house and just live off our land and be friends. I don't see a problem with this and think that the Father is very important in their lives- one of the main reasons I didn't call the police when he beat me during my first pregnancy. I'm not used to this- I've always considered this type of situation something that is for people who don't know how to pick their lives up themselves or are weak. Any advice?

Edited January 23, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mr. Lucky]

bump...really need advice right now

 

I think posters are reluctant to comment because you refuse to help yourself. He's beaten you, raped you and continued to threaten you but you sleep in the same bed with him out of some misguided sense of familiarity.

 

You have kids, right? What would you advise a daughter in this situation? I'd guess it would be some combination of leave, involve the police and protect yourself and your kids.

 

So far, you refuse to do any of the above ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Calmandfocused]

I don't think you've reached your "I'm done" moment. My sense is that he would have to give you more of the same treatment until you reach that point.

 

I'm not criticising you. It's painful to read what he's putting you through but only you will know when you've had enough.

 

It seems like your going through what I did in terms of the yoyo back and forth. You want a divorce but emotionally you aren't ready yet.

 

Yes, divorce is painful, time consuming and hard work. However you will eventually reach the point where the pain of staying in the marriage will far outweigh the pain of the divorce. When you reach that point you will embrace the divorce process with a "whatever it takes" attitude.

 

Best of luck until then but in the meantime focus on protecting yourself

[Mr. Lucky]

NHappy:

 

Here's your the title of your thread:

 

About to hit an ugly divorce... [update: still together, but separated, he raped me]

 

Most people wouldn't have to read any further than that in order to tell you what to do.

 

Why isn't it obvious to you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey born raised]

Why should he change. Look at from his POV.

 

Upside: A wife that he can beat. A wife that if she isn't in the mood he can rape her. A wife whose business pays him with little effort. A wife that he has completely isolated.

 

Downside: she complains a lot. What the hell, I mean who listens?

 

Is there a female version of no more mister nice guy? Contact a shelter. It will save your self-esteem not destroy it !

 

I get there is always backstory and nuance but in your case it does not matter. In your case "just the facts, just the facts": beat, rape, degrades others to protect himself, works only enough to get bye.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Jersey born raised