elaine567 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Even in cultures that accept cheating, is it really ever OK for the one that is cheated on? Everyone has feelings, everyone has an ego, everyone likes to feel loved and adored. It may not be a hanging offence in some cultures, but people no doubt still get very hurt, disappointed and upset by cheating, no matter how "acceptable" it is deemed to be. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SammySammy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Even in cultures that accept cheating, is it really ever OK for the one that is cheated on? Everyone has feelings, everyone has an ego, everyone likes to feel loved and adored. It may not be a hanging offence in some cultures, but people no doubt still get very hurt, disappointed and upset by cheating, no matter how "acceptable" it is deemed to be. I don't believe that is true. Everyone is not hurt by cheating. Many of us take it personally, but for others it's not personal. The idea that what we call "cheating" is a personal affront doesn't hold any credence for some people. For some, there is a distinction between the marriage and sex outside of the marriage. Historically, there are many examples of men and women having lovers outside of their marriages. Concubines. Mistresses. Kept women. Paramours. We have lots of words and expressions that express having a sexual relationship outside of the bounds of marriage. It's not true that all of the spouses were always automatically hurt. We are no different today. We have just been conditioned to think all extramarital sex is bad and a personal attack on the person left out. We parrot what we've been taught without considering that it may not always be true. Link to post Share on other sites
pteromom Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 What if one partner is caught cheating so the other partner decides to cheat as a way to get revenge? What would that solve? "He sold out his integrity to sleep with someone else, so I'll sell out mine as well!" Doesn't make sense. Because more than anything, cheating is cheating on YOURSELF, not your partner. You are cheating on your honor. Cheating on your values. Cheating on your definition of a good and faithful relationship. Cheating on the good person you believe you are. Cheating on your commitment. The lies to your partner are secondary to poisoning yourself with your betrayal of all you deem important and worth fighting for. No, it is never ok. Talk to your partner if there are problems in your relationship. Get individual counseling if you are feeling called to cheat. But do not lie. Do not betray. Do not manipulate. Do not sneak and hide and slither like a lowly snake. Be honorable. Hold on to your integrity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 We parrot what we've been taught without considering that it may not always be true. And sometimes we question what we have been taught even though someone is always quick to point out cultural relativity... We have been conditioned to think extramarital sex behind the other partner's back or without the primary partner's consent is not OK, but even in cultures where (for example) women are raised knowing they will have to share their husband with concubines or multiple wives, there is jealousy and pain when your spouse or partner takes another lover in spite of cultural "normalization." Women just have to put up with men's infidelity; men get to have their wives stoned in the street for it... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) Probably never "OK," but often understandable. If your partner has already broken the marriage vows to love, honor, cherish, for example, the cheating is just another breaking of a vow. You may still be tied financially, or want to stay for the children (whether or not that's a good idea), so do something to alleviate the pain you're experiencing. Or, you're been abused, or subjected to a sexless marriage for no good reason, so cheat to get some validation and relief. I'm excluding from this anyone who is simply doing so for the thrill or personal gratification, whose marriage isn't already bad in some significant way. Now, if you have NOT attempted to resolve any issues with your spouse, then it's clearly wrong. If you've tried many things and been rebuffed, it's understandable. If it's revenge for how you've been treated, or you've been cheated on - well, it's not wise to cheat, but understandable. (For perspective, my ex cheated on me for selfish reasons, and perhaps because she was bipolar. Despite a sexless marriage of her causing, I never cheated on her.) It's better to leave, but sometimes that's too difficult in the short term for some reason, or will create worse problems. Human nature being what it is, cheating is always going to happen, so while we can work to prevent it in our own relationships by being communicative, responsive, and kind to each other, there are many others where someone isn't doing their part. Edited August 24, 2016 by central 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 OP, what is your motivation for the question? Cheater or the Cheatee Neither at the moment but curious. Link to post Share on other sites
aileD Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Neither at the moment but curious. do you have a "reason" (excuse) to consider cheating? Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Probably never "OK," but often understandable. If your partner has already broken the marriage vows to love, honor, cherish, for example, the cheating is just another breaking of a vow. You may still be tied financially, or want to stay for the children (whether or not that's a good idea), so do something to alleviate the pain you're experiencing. Or, you're been abused, or subjected to a sexless marriage for no good reason, so cheat to get some validation and relief. I'm excluding from this anyone who is simply doing so for the thrill or personal gratification, whose marriage isn't already bad in some significant way. ... This probably is closest to my view. When a marriage is unsatisfying for one of the partners but ending it would be devastating to the other, cheating may be the considerate option. Of course this presumes the secret is kept from the one who is not cheating. If he or she does learn of it, the anger might help ease the transition. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 do you have a "reason" (excuse) to consider cheating? I posted this above: When a marriage is unsatisfying for one of the partners but ending it would be devastating to the other, cheating may be the considerate option. Of course this presumes the secret is kept from the one who is not cheating. If he or she does learn of it, the anger might help ease the transition. Link to post Share on other sites
Osmium13 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I find "cheating" it too broad a term to cover what people who are already in a relationship do with another person. There are those who deliberately set out to sleep with someone behind their partner's back, those who get caught up in a moment (usually with drink involved) then the classic work colleague scenario, where you're actually spending more time with someone else that you're attracted to than you are with your OH.... to name but a few. All are "cheating", but some would score higher on the scumbag scoreboard than others IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
Osmium13 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 This probably is closest to my view. When a marriage is unsatisfying for one of the partners but ending it would be devastating to the other, cheating may be the considerate option. Of course this presumes the secret is kept from the one who is not cheating. If he or she does learn of it, the anger might help ease the transition. I'd call it the "easy option" rather than the "considerate option". It's saying you don't want to be in a relationship but don't have the courage to end it. So you involve someone else - hoping that it'll either stay undetected, or (if not) that it takes the decision to end the relationship out of your hands. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 All are "cheating", but some would score higher on the scumbag scoreboard than others IMO. Yup, and the overall scumbagginess rating is in the eye of the beholder lol Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 When a marriage is unsatisfying for one of the partners but ending it would be devastating to the other, cheating may be the considerate option. Disagree. I'd rather my husband tell me he wants to f*ck other women because I'm not putting out enough or washing the dishes right or I got too fat than have hime assume he can protect my poor delicate feelings by cheating. This is a coward's approach and has nothing nada zilch zip zero to do with consideration for the person you're cheating on, and if you believe anything else you're deluding yourself to justify your actions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'd call it the "easy option" rather than the "considerate option". It's saying you don't want to be in a relationship but don't have the courage to end it. So you involve someone else - hoping that it'll either stay undetected, or (if not) that it takes the decision to end the relationship out of your hands. That's just not so. Even a cheater can have regard for his or her spouse. The cheater cheats to satisfy his or her own needs not to hurt the spouse. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Disagree. I'd rather my husband tell me he wants to f*ck other women because I'm not putting out enough or washing the dishes right or I got too fat than have hime assume he can protect my poor delicate feelings by cheating. This is a coward's approach and has nothing nada zilch zip zero to do with consideration for the person you're cheating on, and if you believe anything else you're deluding yourself to justify your actions. That's you. Other women would be devastated by the knowledge the marriage is unfulfilling for their spouse. Not knowing could be a blessing for them. Link to post Share on other sites
SammySammy Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 That's just not so. Even a cheater can have regard for his or her spouse. The cheater cheats to satisfy his or her own needs not to hurt the spouse. Some people have to be a victim. Can't fathom a scenario where it's not about them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 That's just not so. Even a cheater can have regard for his or her spouse. The cheater cheats to satisfy his or her own needs not to hurt the spouse. But only a fool would think he was not hurting his spouse, whether she/he knows about the cheating or not. Most BSs report a change in the behaviour of the WS and it is rarely for the good. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Some people have to be a victim. Can't fathom a scenario where it's not about them. The BS is a victim of the affair. Doesn't mean they "have to be" like it's some compulsion about being then centre of attention, it just means that they are a victim of the infidelity... Even a cheater can have regard for his or her spouse. When cheaters say they are hiding their affair to protect their spouse, what they are saying is they are doing it to protect themselves from seeing the pain they cause their spouse. Having absolutely no regard for the BS is kind of exactly what has to happen for the affair to occur lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RecentChange Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Well "okay" means what? The right choice, probably not. Acceptable? In some circumstances, if acceptance means understandable - then YES. Sometimes cheating is understandable. No. If you've ever been a victim of cheating, you'd understand why my answer is simply: NO. Raises hand - I have been the "victim" of cheating, and my answer isn't NO, and I don't think its that simple. Nope. Divorce/break up is always an option but cheating never should be. Dare I say, I am so very very glad, thankful even that divorce / break up was not the chosen option. Yes, cheating was wrong, yes its painful, but, depending on the circumstances, something that can be over come. My husband and I have both been the "victim" (although I really do not like that description) of cheating. And we have come out the other side stronger. Maybe its different because neither "affair" (perhaps fling is a better word?) was long term. Maybe its different because they weren't these ridiculous love affairs I read about on LS. Maybe its different because BOTH of us were willing to take a look at our roles in our relationship and where it had lead us. Maybe because we both were willing to face our poor choices and weaknesses and do something about them. But again, I am glad BREAK UP! DIVORCE! wasn't the only option in the end. Life, and love can be sticky, and complicated, and confusing, and we do not always make the right choices. That doesn't always mean that people are miserable with each other. Or that they do not love each other. Or that things can be fixed. For some, yes, cheating is a sign that the ship has sunk, but its not always the case. Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 But only a fool would think he was not hurting his spouse, whether she/he knows about the cheating or not. Most BSs report a change in the behaviour of the WS and it is rarely for the good.[/QUOTe] You've got a very good point. I understand behavior changes occur. The cheating spouse has to be very careful if he truly is wants to protect the other spouse. Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 This probably is closest to my view. When a marriage is unsatisfying for one of the partners but ending it would be devastating to the other, cheating may be the considerate option. Of course this presumes the secret is kept from the one who is not cheating. If he or she does learn of it, the anger might help ease the transition. My preference would be to tell the spouse what's wrong, and since it hasn't been fixed, I'm going to date to get my needs met elsewhere. Basically, instigate an open relationship. They can accept it, join in for themselves, or file for divorce - no harm, no foul. If they are (potentially) abusive, however, then I'd keep things a secret until I could figure out a way to leave safely. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 You've got a very good point. I understand behavior changes occur. The cheating spouse has to be very careful deceitful if he truly is wants to protect the other spouse himself. :lmao: 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 ... When cheaters say they are hiding their affair to protect their spouse, what they are saying is they are doing it to protect themselves from seeing the pain they cause their spouse. What makes you say that? Why couldn't the cheater actually care enough to protect the spouse? What in the cheater's personality would preclude the the desire to protect the spouse? Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) What makes you say that? Why couldn't the cheater actually care enough to protect the spouse? What in the cheater's personality would preclude the the desire to protect the spouse? Every thing we do is selfish. I choose to make cookies for my family because it makes me feel good seeing them happy. I choose to be faithful for selfish reasons - it's because I don't want to feel the guilt and shame and pain. I choose to be a good mother for selfish reasons - because I want to look back knowing I did my best to give them a good life. The cheater is cheating out of selfishness, not a desire to protect the spouse, with maybe the exception of a spouse being a vegetable. The cheater does not want to hurt the person they made vows to for selfish reasons as well. You're not ever going to convince me that someone is a f*cking martyr for banging some other woman out of kindness and sincere concern for her well-being - it's because they don't want to feel guilty for hurting their partner and being too much of a coward to admit they have narcisitic tendencies lol Edited August 24, 2016 by Lobe typos 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author NeotericJack Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 My preference would be to tell the spouse what's wrong, and since it hasn't been fixed, I'm going to date to get my needs met elsewhere. Basically, instigate an open relationship. They can accept it, join in for themselves, or file for divorce - no harm, no foul. If they are (potentially) abusive, however, then I'd keep things a secret until I could figure out a way to leave safely. What if the cultural, social and family pressures on the faithful spouse wouldn't allow that; the open relationship or the divorce. Is it too far-fetched to think the cheating spouse might not want to put the faithful spouse through it. Many cheating women love their husbands and want to have their marriages. They're just bored and want some excitement. Link to post Share on other sites
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