Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Haven't been on for a long time.... b/f broke up with me in Feb because he wasn't sure of his committment. We got back together in April, and slowly but surely seem to have been getting much better. He is planning things, treating me so considerately and thoughtfully, telling me how great I am and that he loves me, gradually reintegrating himself with my family. We have just spent a great weekend with my grandmother where he has started talking about maybe getting a deposit together for a flat to buy with me, how he sees our roles in terms of parenthood in the future (he is 37, I am 26) etc. Anyway, we were fiddling on his computer and he asked me to bookmark a site for him. I came across the fact that he had bookmarked match.com (i joined him up as you have to be a member to look at profiles, and we both wanted to look at a member friend's profile). He had basically bookmarked 2 profiles. When i confronted him he was defensive and like a kid who had been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Later when we were both calmer, he said that it had been idle curiosity, that he had meant nothing by it and never thought of following up on it. He reassured me that he loves me but said that he does have doubts and that he is concerned about his lack of commitment as he is doing this - basically he thinks that if he was 100% sure he wouldn't have made this mistake. But he wants to plan for the future with me (holiday in September and stuff), so do I let this go? I feel devastated and betrayed - our relationship is really fragile and he is seriously jepordising it. My tolerance threshold is getting lower and lower and when we get into these horrible discussions he comes across as ambivalent and says he would rather leave me than hurt me so badly again... Since then he has been extra attentive, but is very honest about the fact that he doesn't know that we are definitely going to be together forever. I don't think he realises that EVERYONE has doubts (he has been married before and is paranoid about f*cking up again) and that it doesn't mean that the relationship is doomed. In every other way we are totally compatible and love each other's company. What do you guys reckon? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 btw, he had bookmarked it about 2 weeks ago, and says that yes, he is curious, but doesn't want to do anything about it. but that the curiosity worries him. Is this normal? Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Guys do check out other women sometimes. It happens. The problem is when they do more than just look... and start to fantasise or act on this. My suggestion is to chat to your guy. Keep it low key/low pressure, don't get angry or upset. Encourage him to speak his mind. Opening communication lines in this area is a good policy. Keep a watching brief on this subject for the future. Balance trust with commonsense - there are plenty of temptations in this world. And don't sign him up for anything else like match. That's just plain stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 It does not look too good. After all, it is not hard to memorize a username, or anything - the bookmarks are probably indicative of a bit more than plain curiosity. He may have not acted on it, but still it is a worrying sign. Perhaps - but this is a totally uneducated guess - he is so obsessed with messing things up, that it is somewhat pathological. Of course a man can be afraid to mess things up. But he is 37, not 21. He should know what messes relationships up, and what can and can't be done in a relationship. He was married before, so he should have a clue. It sounds like he messed his previous marriage up. But by just acknowledging that, he has not done a thing about the issues that caused his marriage to deteriorate. If you are possibly not going to stay together forever, and that may be a legitimate concern, it is very hard to handle things like buying a place together, or even starting to think about children. There are no guarantees for the future. Just the present to live in, and a future to look forward to. If the future is not that bright, you should seriously consider your position. Perhaps individual counselling for him would be helpful. His behavior now is clearly problematic in some ways; to the point that it perhaps might come to paralyze him, as he becomes terrified to mess things up. You both don't want that to happen. Link to post Share on other sites
jen_jen_heartbroken Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 My ex-boyfriend and I had several short break-ups (a week or two here and there) until our relationships finally imploded after a year. During of these times I found out that he had re-subscribed to match.com because my girlfriend saw his profile back up and that it was active and she warned me. When I finally confronted him, he said he was just "curious" and that he didn't contact anyone. I was really hurt, and in the pit of my stomach I had a really bad feeling. Several months later I found out that he also had an internet porn addiction and was subscribed to a dozen or so paid websites. This was after he'd lied to me many times about it. I told him very early on that I could not be with someone who engaged in habitual pornography use, and he assured me that he didn't. Even after he was caught, he cancelled his subscriptions (telling me he would get help for his addiction), but then re-signed up for different websites within a matter of days. Well, guess what... two months ago I found out he'd been cheating and he left me for someone else. Please be very careful with this guy and always listen to your gut and your intuition. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Thanks guys, it is really nice to come here and know that there will be rational and decent support. My gut and intuition tell me that he is totally honest. Brutally sometimes. He has always been transparent about letting me go through his phone/computer and stuff - and was actually sitting beside me while i did it, asking me to bookmark something. Clearly he had forgotten that he had done it. In a way, i know what it is like, as I have done it in the past, just checking out the options, you know. No thought of following up on it... Anyway, he has called several times since and is not dismissing it - saying that his curiosity does scare him, but I think D'Arthez is pretty spot on in some ways. He is paralysed with this stuff - so neurotic about making mistakes/ having doubts. We are very very compatible, have great sex, love each other, have similar values. He just thinks he is missing the abolute, overwhelming conviction that there is no-one else for him. I think this is normal and would love him to rationalise it - there are no guarantees about anything and I feel the same. It is a very immature way to behave, and i don't think we can progress unless he gets over it. Thanks again guys - i am going to lay low and show him that i am not so vulnerable after all, and that i might not always forgive him for everything. Keep the advice coming - romeo, you gave me good advice about committment phobia some time back - same guy. Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Originally posted by Tonia2 Keep the advice coming - romeo, you gave me good advice about committment phobia some time back - same guy. Oooh, so it did work out. Great! Keep us posted, then Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Well... not so sure that it is working out that great after this I was really optimistic about it, but (and this is why the CP stuff comes in) he is fine and will talk with confidence about a future with me, until I confront him. Then (like last night) he starts to say that he doesn't think it can be right if he still isn't 100% sure. I just think that not being 100% sure is the human condition - isn't it? Where is the benchmark? That is what I mean by brutally honest - he doesn't spare me his miliseconds of doubt - they all come tumbling out and make me feel pretty awful. He is so close to stepping over that precipice into proper committment, but falters at the edge. Is this really common? Link to post Share on other sites
VirginiaBob Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 consider putting a keylogger software hidden on his computer when he is not there. My philosophy is trust, but verify. Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Whether it is extreme commitment-phobia, or a pathological fear of messing this relationship up, does not make much difference for the relationship you have with him. The behaviors will be fairly similar. It is the human condition that you can't be logically certain of anything 100%. It does not mean, that people are unable to make the right decision, or to realize what the right thing is to do. But some people rather focus on all the uncertainties, and the impossible to account for, than on those things that they can be confident of. His issues won't magically disappear when the commitment increases. You can accomodate for his issues, but that is the most you can do. And it is the question if it is the most healthy approach he and you could take. As long as the issues are not effectively dealt with, the future will be similar to the present, and perhaps even a bit more intense, as the commitments increase. You mentioned something about buying a place together. That is a big commitment. He brought it up, but how is he handling the reality of the idea? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 God, i would be reluctant to become a spy, but I get where you are coming from. Really the issue isn't about these profiles, as I absolutely know that he wouldn't do anything about them while we are together. It is about what they represent - his commitment phobia, his chipping away at my self-esteem (obviously I feel inadequate as he is keeping his options open). He has really tried to play it down and he wouldn't do this unless it really was irrelevant as a gesture - it is more what it symbolises, and we are both aware of the potential pitfalls here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Hi d'arthez - that is the thing - he is good at the grand gestures in theory - talking about kids (he is obsessed with them) and stuff, but the reality is different. I would love him to have some counselling, but it isn't going to happen for a while. Maybe my best plan would be to get him to come to some couples counselling to try to establish whether we do want to be with each other or not. I know it is a risk, because it might show him he doesn't want this, but better that than this uncertainty. Trust me though - he is a lovely, honourable guy with a pathological problem about relationships. The kids stuff worries me. We all know it only makes things harder not easier - but when I raise doubts about him bailing out on me if I got pregnant, because of his doubts, he dismisses this out of hand and says that he would never do that. Like kids are the glue that fix relationships. don't worry, i would never get pregnant on this understanding until i was much, much more certain about him and his feelings and his maturity. Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Originally posted by Tonia2 Hi d'arthez - that is the thing - he is good at the grand gestures in theory - talking about kids (he is obsessed with them) and stuff, but the reality is different. Classic CP behaviour. I know whereof I speak Take the pressure off him. And try to do the counselling thing. D'Arthez is right though - you need to reflect on whether this game is worth playing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 How did you deal with your CP stuff? I know that I have it too - otherwise I would have bailed out of this for something 'safe' ages ago, but I am interested to see how the active CP person gets over it. He is worth it, trust me Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Originally posted by Tonia2 How did you deal with your CP stuff? Time, therapy and slowly realising from experience that most women can be trusted. I'm still not 100% there yet. But then, who is 100% ready to make a commitment? Nothing worthwhile in this life is without risk. Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Therapy seems to be essential to come to grips with your minor and his more major issues. But even though you seem to have issues, they don't define every behavior of you. In his case, the situation is otherwise . And as long as he is not seriously considering therapy, I don't see things improving with time. Talking about commitment comes easy to him, but making a commitment is something completely different. So it is hard to see how you and him could move the relationship to a higher, and a more certain foundation. I am sorry, that I can't give you a more optimistic measure about your relationship . Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Thanks guys... what do you suggest I do? I said this to him yesterday - my options are to leave him and have no contact, or to try to resolve this... His way of resolving it is to try to make plans into the future, which he is doing, and I am not ready for more than that at the moment. I do not want to be wasting my time though. I am not ready to leave him. He is kind, funny, thoughtful, loving, affectionate and generous - it would seem mad to give up on that. Like I said to him though, my tolerance threshold is rapidly approaching - this has been going on for a year. Link to post Share on other sites
d'Arthez Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 It may seem 'mad' to give up on that. But it is not. Sure, affectionate-ness and such are nice bonuses in a relationship. But they cannot be the foundation of a relationship. A form of mutual commitment is. As for the wisdom of the steps to take, hopefully RelucantRomeo can shine his light (and his experience) on your situation. Part of the problem is that he only will get professional help, when he feels he is in desperate need of it - probably after you have given him a final incentive for it. But don't make rash decisions now. Think them carefully over, so as to make certain that whatever you choose to do, you won't be surprised by anything. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
upsetnhurt Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Tonia, Do yourself a favor and open a fake account on Match and send him an email or two.....you say you are so sure he would not respond or jump at the chance and I am not so sure of it. I am going through similar tough times as yourself and find that my partner will not make that 100% commitment either. She spends all her time with me, sleeps with me and at my house more than not, yet when it comes down to talking about anything serious the jitters step up to the plate. I tend to think that the only way for someone to change is to give them the ultimatum as to your desires and if they can't be met then so be it, NC all the way. We have lives to live and hopes to attain and wasting time is not going to help. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 God, it all sounds really negative I dunno if I am ready to give up on him yet, but then how on do I go on saying this for. Ultimately he does want kids and a family of his own, so I know we are not going to trundle on like this indefinitely. As far as match - I really don't want to take that route - it seems to be the antithesis of what a relationship is about. He may have done something a bit underhand, but I have hauled him over the coals for it and now want to put it behind us and move on. I do trust him - god the things he has told me... he would not protect me from stuff for the sake of it. Link to post Share on other sites
VirginiaBob Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 This one looks promising: http://www.download.com/Free-KGB-Key-Logger/3000-2092_4-10393932.html?tag=lst-0-2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 He actually works in IT security Thanks for your help. He has just called and said that he wants to talk to me about something tonight, that it is good, but that he can't discuss it over the phone. I was suitably frosty - I just can't be bothered with it at the moment, but I think it has got him rattled. I have been ignoring his calls and stuff. Lets hope that it is that he has decided to go and have counselling Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I am probably not the one who should talk, but I think you should give him some time and not pressure him. In the meanwhile, you should be sweet and emotionally stable. He has a bad experience in the past and every wrong move you make he holds against you. Every fight scares him and reminds him of how he fought with his ex-wife. Be meek, but independent at the same time and don't rush him. If he has commitment problems he will either surpass them with your help (by you being strong and supportive) or he will break up out of fear that you're not the right one. Be smart, control the situation before things slip out of your control! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tonia2 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Thanks guys. Update. He asked me to go to his flat after work, he came home early and sat me down. Said he realised he had behaved like a **** lately and that it is not fair to expect me not to be able to talk about the future properly. He said he thinks i am amazing and doesn't want to lose me, but that he needs to put a 3 month time limit on things. He is sure it will go the right way and after 3 months either we say we tried but failed or he wants the real deal - kids, moving in together, marriage - the works. Pretty overwhelming. He asked if I had any questions - like where did I see us living, when we would start trying for kids. Pretty massive turn around, but I am scared of the ultimatum thing. I said that if he thinks we have a 50-50 chance I am not interested, it has to be more positive than that, and he said that was not how he was feeling at all. He said he wants to make a proper committment to me in the meantime and that he will be a much better, more committed boyfriend and that he really, really loves me. This is brilliant, because we were in danger of drifting forever. He said he has realised that you don't have what we have got very often - it doesn't come along every day. I finally feel he values me properly. Thanks for your advice, I will keep you all posted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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