Trying to make sense of this...

[Rockflower]

My story:

 

I am ex-OW to MM, who did little to hide the EA / PA, yet was stressed out by it. Very controlling BW (external evidence of this), has children he seems to dote on. After D-Day, NC for over half a year, during which they go to MC and try to restart relationship. (NB - I encouraged him to try and work things out at home many times, plus I am the child of highly dysfunctional parenting among other experiences, so can appreciate both sides of the story).

 

Contact re-established with MM (instigated by MM) through mutual hobby encounter, MM returns full of apologies but very stressed-out but EA at this point. 2nd D-Day, BW understandably distraught and tries to manipulate me until forced to stop contact. MM tells her he won't give me up.

MM aware of damage he's done to BS / marriage (in terms of loss of trust twice), says he will be moving out because of this, starting IC.

MM did lots of (possibly unintentional) future-faking again, but also clearly very stressed-out. He is a conflict-avoider, my IC thinks that is why he future-fakes, as he is so used to saying whatever to keep the peace. All i ever asked for was the truth - he promised me this ... then suddenly said he can't keep me happy as I deserve to be whilst his future is so uncertain, so go and find your happiness. Now NC.

 

My question:

Having been through similar and awful things and more in my life (I mean from the other side), learned the hard way and got through a mass of difficulties on my own, is he likely to actually grow a pair and make a decision. Or is he going to destroy his own life as well as his children (who have shown signs - very disruptive at school, etc) and his wife's by continuing to sit on the fence? If he does come back again, I'm not sure how I'll handle it as I am losing respect for him now - and am also worried about he further effect on me - it has made me so ill and there are other serious things not mentioned.

 

I meanwhile am starting to move forwards as it is the only thing to do - but I can't help feeling that this isn't the end, either way.

 

Thanks for any input, much appreciated.

[dubliner]

"His future is so uncertain"

Is all you need to know

He will continue to fence sit until someone makes the decisions for him.

 

In my experience with a similar character, nothing changes, conflict avoiders are passengers, their life is dictated by external forces. His wife may eventually tire of his cheating behaviour and kick him out but he would be very unlikely to make that move himself.

This is making you ill so why continue, it's not healthy for you and its probably never going to change. Think about you and what you need in your life, not this drama. Love doesn't make you ill, love enriches you, and you certainly can't love without respect which he isn't showing to anyone and you are not showing to yourself.

The ' end' is when you call it. NC, block and ignore.

[Rockflower]

Thank you Dubliner - I think you're probably right.

 

I've already told him he has no balls - I s'pose it's easier for a man to sit on a wobbly, narrow, splintery fence when he has none.

 

RF

[loveisanaction]

He says that his future is so uncertain and to go and find your happiness. That is a polite way of letting you down. He is telling you that he is staying married and that he does not see a future with you so go and find somebody who you can create a future with.

 

It doesn’t matter if he is conflict avoidant, a spineless coward or a man who doesn’t have the guts to stand up to his wife; all that doesn’t matter because it doesn’t change anything, he is staying married....no further discussion needed.

 

LISTEN to what he has told you…it’s over….cry, be sad then move on with your life.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Thank you Dubliner - I think you're probably right.

 

I've already told him he has no balls - I s'pose it's easier for a man to sit on a wobbly, narrow, splintery fence when he has none.

 

RF

 

He is not going to leave his wife. His wife though, may divorce him, it does happen, and I predict he shows up at your door. This is not the way you want a guy though. You want him to actively choose you. Be a man.

 

And yes, it is not the end. Guys like this, they keep coming back. I'm living it.

 

I'm in NC. Do the same.

[HappyAgain2014]

YOU can decide this is the end. MM don't have power that isn't given to them.

 

You know this is dysfunctional now and would continue to be dysfunctional even if he divorced and married you. That's all you need to know.

 

Affair or marriage, any relationship with this man is a mess. A man who respects himself and loves you doesn't act this way.

 

You can't fix him. It's irrelevant whether you respect him. Make decisions that allow you to respect yourself. Move on.

[Midwestmissy]

As an aside, bw are always considered controlling. It happened to me too. I was reacting to trying to understand what was happening in my marriage, and my questioning of his whereabouts made me controlling. It was a kick in the gut. Also, mm can act like toddlers - "I want both, but bw says I can't she's so controlling. I want to go on a trip "alone" for a week without the kids and wife says no, she's so controlling." I flipped out once his behavior was totally different than it had ever been in our marriage. I wasnt in control at all, I was terrified.

 

If I'd had the controlling power I was accused of having, I would have had things work out better for me the whole time. Hard to be controlling when the wool is over your eyes. Remember, this guy is a liar who is right where he wants to be - in the middle with 2 women in an uproar over him. Very empowering. You're worth so much more than that.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Midwestmissy
Clarity

[Lobe]

I meanwhile am starting to move forwards as it is the only thing to do - but I can't help feeling that this isn't the end, either way.

 

Thanks for any input, much appreciated.

 

I'm one of those controlling horrible BSs

 

Move forward. You've answered all of your own questions in your post already and I think you're just looking for some support, which you came to teh right place to get.

 

Going NC is the best thing that you can do, for yourself, your MM, his BS, and their kids. Here's why.

 

In going NC you will accomplish the following.

 

1) Create a safe space for your own mental health and emotional healing. What your MM does becomes secondary to the fact you have autonomy and control over your own headspace again, the freedom to mourn, grieve, rage, and recover without the static your MM brings into the picture.

 

2) MM will no longer be the one doing the deciding. You are taking back your own power and allowing him the freedom he needs to start doing the same. Whatever the outcome is on his part becomes irrelevant because you're already safe inside your NC bubble and as time wears on you will gain strength in the process of protecting your dignity and self-worth from being eaten away at by a rat.

 

3) I would not put this up for most OW, because generally they don't want to know or care about the BSs feelings, but because you have expressed genuine and heartfelt concern for his BS and their children, you are doing them a huge favor by respecting their household by removing yourself as an option and allowing them the space they need to make their own path going forward. Again, the outcome is irrelevant - either parent may choose to end the marriage, but at least at that point it is because they have exhausted their own options, knowing you were not one of them. If they come to the realization that their marriage truly is over, their divorce will hopefully be less contentious than if it's because an OW was in the mix when it went down.

 

Let go of controlling the outcome and make YOU your number one priority. Good luck.

[NTV]

Thank you Dubliner - I think you're probably right.

 

I've already told him he has no balls - I s'pose it's easier for a man to sit on a wobbly, narrow, splintery fence when he has none.

 

RF

 

 

 

You like weak men that have no balls...?

[Arieswoman]

Rockflower, were you with my exH at any time ?

 

That ^ was a joke, now this from Dubliner is spot-on ;

 

He will continue to fence sit until someone makes the decisions for him.

 

In my experience with a similar character, nothing changes, conflict avoiders are passengers, their life is dictated by external forces.

 

Even after I threw my cheating ex out he still didn't make a comittment to his AP. ( despite telling me how much he loved her !!) She finally got him to marry her 4 years later by getting pregnant.

 

Please don't be like that silly girl.

[veryhappy]

Pleas don't tell yourself a story that it isn't over yet, thinking he'll come back to offer you a legitimate relationship. His future is only uncertain because he's afraid his wife will dump him, and be convinced he's a puppy dog trying to appease her.

 

That leaves you exactly where he told you, free to find your own happiness that for sure doesn't involve him. Sure, you can keep the a going and you will become more and more sick while he'll see you as more and more dispendable.

 

I've been through this crap 4 years ago, and after it was clear to him the a was over, haven't heard from him again. He blamed me for thinking be wanted to be with me, and went on his merry way. All of a sudden,he had clarity. Please don't waste your time, as he'll be happy to waste your life if it benefits him.

[whichwayisup]

You only know one side of this, exMM's side. Some how you've made his wife out to be the bad guy here! Your anger/resentment towards her should be directed at HIM. And at yourself.

 

Leave them alone, let them heal and fix things.

 

Focus on letting go and healing/grieving yourself instead of hoping/waiting for him to come find you IF his wife kicks him out of the house.

 

If he wanted to divorce and be with you, he would have done that after the first DDAY.

[imsosad]

He gave you sound advice- drop him, move on,find real love.

I think you are being unfair to his wife. She manipulated you? She's controlling? Are you not trying to break up her marriage?

Sounds like they have a dynamic going on, somewhere along the lines of him being a naughty bad boy and her,trying to tame him.

I agree with midnight, he will show up again,but with nothing to offer you but more pain and suffering. If she throws him out,he'll come running to you,claiming he meant to do it all along. A grown man should be able to make an adult decision. If he cant, what do you want this little boy for?

[Rockflower]

" She finally got him to marry her 4 years later by getting pregnant.

 

Please don't be like that silly girl.

 

Well, that already happened - by total accident - followed by a traumatic m/c that I dealt with all alone.

 

Regarding controlling BS - sorry ladies, but I can spot one a mile off, having very traumatically been on the receiving end of controlling women growing up. And, without going into detail, this one's typical behaviour was broadcast quite spectacularly and feedback from their MC also highlighted that other aspects would destroy any marriage.

 

Attraction to men with no balls - yes, I'm starting to accept that my caring / nurturing ... rescuing nature can only go so far, oxygen masks and all that.

 

However, my IC says she has never known anyone who has worked so hard on themselves, yet I still struggle with trying to people out of where I have been, albeit in a frustrated way.

 

So, thank you all - truly xx.

I will digest all of your comments and work on holding my head high and moving forward.

 

I s'pose, whilst it may seem b&w from the outside, sometimes the emotion overwhelms ... as it did when he saw me after so long, he couldn't contain himself, even with masses of people / friends around. I don't mean wow, I'm fantastic / amazing, etc or that he was expressing profound feelings there / then. But I get what it is to live your life under someone else's, suppressing your emotions, feelings, wants, etc, to keep others happy ... or in my case, so I didn't get physically hurt again. When you have lived in the desert, or a MadMax environment all of your life, then someone comes along and gives your honey and buttercups, it is very, very hard to overcome the innate emotions that overtake you and stick to others' advice ...

 

Sorry, I have had a glass of drink and am emotional.

I am highly educated and have achieved quite a few wow things in my life ... but this is the the hardest thing, even though I am strong.

 

Thank you xx

[Rockflower]

You only know one side of this, exMM's side. Some how you've made his wife out to be the bad guy here! Your anger/resentment towards her should be directed at HIM. And at yourself.

 

Leave them alone, let them heal and fix things.

 

Focus on letting go and healing/grieving yourself instead of hoping/waiting for him to come find you IF his wife kicks him out of the house.

 

If he wanted to divorce and be with you, he would have done that after the first DDAY.

 

Thank you WWIU - No - I have seen clear evidence (as have others, who were quite stunned too) ... but yes, I repeatedly said that this was their problem, not mine (since I was then contacted by both of them after 9 months of NC), and even received numerous confirmations from the BS regarding this (who then want on to slag me off to level of slandering me ...). I also said to her that i thought he was self-distructing (which I also understand!) and she agreed.

 

So yes, I need to move on with my life and start to feel better / good about myself - yes, I am damaged from the horrors of growing up, so BS and MW can slate me ... but I AM a tremendously strong human from all of this...despite the ongoing pain I think others are a bit stunned, TBH, why I go for the men I do. But ... we can only deal with what we are given in life...

[Lobe]

Well, that already happened - by total accident - followed by a traumatic m/c that I dealt with all alone.

 

I'm sorry you had to go through that - where was MM at that time?

 

When you have lived in the desert, or a MadMax environment all of your life, then someone comes along and gives your honey and buttercups, it is very, very hard to overcome the innate emotions that overtake you and stick to others' advice ...

 

Herein lies the problem with affairs - they all seem like honey and buttercups, until reality comes in and shows you fantasyland is just cheap veneer on a cardboard city.

 

I am highly educated and have achieved quite a few wow things in my life ... but this is the the hardest thing, even though I am strong.

 

There's a reason people talk about affairs as addictions. Your wealth, social status, education, age, gender, or looks don't exempt you from being affair material. I believe anyone, given the right circumstances, can be vulnerable enough to fall into an affair.

 

Stop worrying about his unhappy life with his controlling spouse - he hasn't left because he thinks that relationship is more important to protect and continue than yours. If you keep trying to put lipstick on this pig you won't have any left for yourself when you decide it's OK to get back in the game.

 

What are your plans to get through the weekend?

[Rockflower]

Thank you Lobe - I have a lot of respect for you and you give a lot of good advice x.

 

I will be doing some of my 'hobby' (away from him), then seeing my brother - who has been on the other side of all this and is with his OW (which throws the spanner in sensibility!).

 

Thank you x

[Lobe]

(which throws the spanner in sensibility!)

 

Oh, geez... of course! lol. I hope your hobby is something really physical. Like rock climbing. I love taking out all my pent up aggression in the gym - it keeps me sane... which says a lot

[Rockflower]

Yes, it's one of the fastest growing sports (but I got there first ;-) ... and did quite well) x Thank you again

[BuddyX]

Why are you hanging out with you're brother, who's most likely going to promote the lifestyle. You don't need this right now. If you have to, Meet with your Brother but without the OW.

 

And seriously, The whole affair cycle, does it run in the family?

 

Surround yourself with positive people.

[veryhappy]

BW are human as well, and some of them are indeed unpalatable. The problem is not the truth of his situation. The problem is that you need to accept that he is in that relationship because he can't fight with controlling people. And if you are not able to heal your childhood trauma actively working on it, what exactly do you expect from him if he's not even aware, wanting to work, or working on his childhood trauma?

 

It is hard exactly because is brings out your abandonment issues. What can be harder than being abandoned? Life will continue without him, and it will get easier.

[elaine567]

The reality of the situation is that he is making you ill, his wife ill and his kids ill here.

Do you really want to be part of all this?

[Rockflower]

Thank you for your responses.

My brother was in a similar, but different relationship (I lived through some of it, so have further insight) - my brother is the only relation who is kind to me, as is his OW (he is divorced now) ... she's been through it too. I cope as well as I am able to.

 

Yes, being in love shouldn't mean being ill!

 

You never get over very traumatic things - you learn to live with them. Which is why, after the years and huge amount of money I have spent, that I can change to a certain degree, but I cannot change being a kind, caring person. Although the oxygen mask thing comes first now.

 

I so appreciate your responses.

[Rockflower]

No - it doesn't run in the family ... what does is (multiple family / extended family / others) staying together through hugely dysfunctionally relationships. IMO - that is FAR, FAR worse than dealing with your issues and separating / divorcing and finding someone to be happy with.

[NTV]

 

You never get over very traumatic things - you learn to live with them. Which is why, after the years and huge amount of money I have spent, that I can change to a certain degree, but I cannot change being a kind, caring person. Although the oxygen mask thing comes

 

At some point baggage becomes trials you have passed through. Trials teach you things.

 

What has this trial taught you?