Should he have paid the 2nd date? Why isnt he asking me out for 3rd yet? [updated]

[joseb]

No, that's not what I'm saying, you're missing my point! When a man asks a woman out, yes, he may be interested in her, but he's also interested in having sex with her. Unless he's impotent, he's wanting to also have sex. That's common knowledge my friend!

 

So are you saying that a straight woman who goes out with a guy is not interested in having sex with him??????

 

I'm pretty sure she is. So not sure what your point here is/was...

[Els]

Suggesting an expensive restaurant (and $70 per person is REALLY expensive, it's the kind of place my guy and I go to only a few times a year, even though we make decent money) on the 2nd date is a really, really bad idea. I do enjoy being taken out on a date and treated, but I would never suggest something that expensive with the expectation that he'd pay, and especially not with someone I'd only had one date with. It doesn't matter that you said 'maybe it's too expensive', that's just waffling - if it's too expensive, don't even suggest it.

[mortensorchid]

He's a few things in this situation:

 

1) He's cheap - A man who does not pay for a meal or a drink is cheap.

2) He doesn't care for you that way - He is treating you as a friend rather than a lover or potential lover. A man who likes a woman treats her better than the story you shared.

3) He's a player - You said you felt teased. That's what he's doing. He lead you on, got you interested, and now he's cutting you loose and thriving on the fact that he's hurt you.

 

Move on.

[Els]

OP, why on earth do you care so much??? Again, why are you so anxious to continue?

 

The guy asked you to let him know you're safe, then couldn't be bothered to acknowledge the text until mid-morning the next day. He suggested you watch football together, then never followed through.

 

Words are cheap. It's actions that speak volumes about the person's true nature and character. Absolutely nothing that you're describing about this guy would make me want to continue!

 

Yet here you are contemplating whether to chase after him and ask for a date since he's not asking for another--a man who left you so "embarrassed" and "humiliated" that you wanted to "sink into the floor" (your words verbatim) during your second date. This is him putting his best foot forward??? Imagine how he'll treat you once he's complacent and no longer feels the need to put in an effort to make a good impression. Please take a very long, hard look at why you have zippo standards. I cringe with each new piece of information you provide.

 

I agree with this, but the OP also needs to rethink her own behaviour IMO. Suggesting a very expensive place on the 2nd date and then playing the whole bathroom stunt hoping that he would pay is just crass. Even if he had been a genuinely good guy who was interested in her, he could legitimately have just been put off by her behaviour.

[GemmaUK]

I think actions speak louder than words on this one.

 

He paid for all of the activities on date #1 which I think is generous and I think Op should have chipped in for something within the 7 hours.

 

On the second date again 7 hours to me is enough time to actively chip in or pay for something outright - instead she went to the toilet for 10 minutes and said she hoped he would have paid the $140 bill for the meal in the more expensive restaurant she wanted to go to.

He probably had plenty of thinking time to twig she was hoping the bill would be paid in her absence - and then her card fails..

Legit I guess if she had lost the card - except it sounds odd that the card was lost but was the one she was attempting to pay with?? That I'm really confused about.

I don't blame him at that stage for letting her deal with her bank to sort out payment for her share.

 

I've never been on a first date (or had a relationship) where I've let the man pay - it's always 50/50 even though I have only ever dated one man who earned less than myself. The rest all earned more but it was still always 50/50 or take turns - with no strict whose turn it is thing.

 

If I am in a situation where I can't afford my share of dating I don't date.

 

Sorry OP and I don't mean to offend you here at all but in two dates over 14 hours there would have been plenty of opportunity to even just make token payments for joint things - he may well have covered the $140 if your actions had shown willing and generous.

[insert_name]

Suggesting an expensive restaurant (and $70 per person is REALLY expensive, it's the kind of place my guy and I go to only a few times a year, even though we make decent money) on the 2nd date is a really, really bad idea. I do enjoy being taken out on a date and treated, but I would never suggest something that expensive with the expectation that he'd pay, and especially not with someone I'd only had one date with. It doesn't matter that you said 'maybe it's too expensive', that's just waffling - if it's too expensive, don't even suggest it.

 

Exactly. It absolutely boggles my mind that there is so much support for OP here and the guy is being called cheap(!) as well as other insinuations about his character like this is entirely on him, especially after the tacky way OP manoeuvred him into taking her to this restaurant and then ran off when the bill came.

 

I missed that when reading through this first time and the more detail I read now the more I think this guy needs to run and never look back. That OP is getting so much support just depresses me and makes me wonder about the entitled mindset of women on the dating scene these days.

 

OP I would gently suggest that if you are a student and struggle to make ends meet that you adjust your tastes accordingly- if a guy you go on a date with actually offers to take you to an expensive restaurant then make sure he knows that you can'tell afford it unless he is willing to pay and then there can be none of the nonsense that sparked off this thread. I rather suspect that you knew what you were doing looking at the menu for that restaurant and as another poster pointed out you put him in an awful no win situation as if he agreed to go somewhere cheaper there is then the distinct possibility that you would still be on here calling him cheap because you didn't get the meal you really wanted to have.

 

Honestly, this thread gives me the impression that women actually expect to have their company paid for simply because vagina and what is worse any man who doesn't comply is shamed (with a great sense of entitlement and no little irony) as being cheap.

[SwordofFlame]

At a dating app.. why you ask?

 

A man's biggest fear when dating someone he met online is if she is using him just for his money. Just as danger or fear of being just used for sex is a woman's.

 

You suggested an expensive restaurant with the full expectation that he pay for it on a second date. That combined with the fact that you're a student with little income would have had me concluding that there's a strong likelihood that you could be a golddigger.

 

Even if you're not a golddigger you're basically setting an expectation of I like to be treated to expensive things early and often. This might not be a problem for a guy with lots of money or really desperate guys that want sex.

 

It's easy for so many women to say men should pay for first few dates, because they've never felt used just for their money.

[Leigh 87]

Yep, Freud famously declared that he doesn't know what women want. After lurking here for 2 years I have finally figured it out: they want to find a way to marry two incompatible Ideals- they want a traditional man but don't want to live a traditional lifestyle.

 

And then on their way home after having their meal paid for they can sing all that Beyonce crap about being an independent woman....with no sense of irony

 

 

 

I actually want a traditional man AND I want to do most of the cleaning and house work. This is just what I Prefer, based on my upbringing and.. well, it is just what makes me happy?

 

Not all of us girls who prefer to be treated, are selfish wankers who ALSO want all the benefits without giving anything back:sick:

 

My problem in relationships is that I spoil men TOO much; I walk past stores, see their favourite sweet or favourite meal, and cannot help but treat them to small things every week. Among the huge overseas trips I have shouted men to for their birthdays in my past.

 

So please on behalf of all women who prefer to be treated and spoilt to the DATING related stuff - aka, dates and small weekends away - not ALL OF US have an ulterior motive. SOME of us are simply VERY generous souls ourselves and simply feel UNBALANCED when we date men who are happy to split the bills despite making decent money.

 

Thing is, when I was working full time and on a decent income, I COULD NOT fathom earning an average to decent wage - and NOT treating and spoiling the guy I was with at the time. I cannot have close and intimate relationships with men who have it in their nature to NOT want to really spoil and treat their girls to dates - I mean, splitting down the middle? Sorry but it is stingy, tight and if you CAN afford to treat a girl - I just cannot get close to men who possess the mentality to NOT pay.

 

The OP did nothing wrong by preferring a guy to pay. For all WE know, she could be like me and simply prefer a man who meets HER level of generosity in the long run - maybe the OP dotes on her men and enjoys treating THEM to lavish birthday gifts, massages, foot rubs, the works.... and little treats regularly?

 

My friend and I for instance prefer men to treat US to the dating component - yet we are both SUPER super generous and loving towards our men.

 

It is sad that people make such bad assumptions about women who hold more traditional values in relation to men, gender roles and dating! I know plenty of women who are pretty darn nice - altruistic, lovely women, who simply prefer the gentleman pays. Yet they are not princesses with no morals any myriad of the negative connotations associated with us women who prefer men to pay....

 

 

 

 

I will say - I once went to the toilet, and the man, now on the second date, thought I was trying to get out of paying; I actually wasn't! See, I was not that into him although I thought he was a good catch - I just didn't feel the fireworks I need and I HAD felt them for another man I just met a day or 2 prior to him and was thinking about incessantly.

 

I INTENDED to foot the bill - for the two of us - because I felt IMMORAL letting a guy pay when I had NO interest in him and HE paid for our first date!

 

So I took him by surprise when I told him that I had intended to pay, I felt no real chemistry and that he treated me to the first date and it was simply the right thing to do to at least treat him this time considering I did not wish to pursue things further.

 

He thanked me for my honesty. He explained that many women do the " I just need to go to the toilet" routine in order to avert the check...... I apologised again for causing him to think I could have done just as many women obviously do.

 

Honestly, if you have no interest in a guy then it is sorta.... rotten to get them to foot an EXPENSIVE bill. Come on.. that is a little:o:sick:

 

However, if you need a traditional man who prefers to treat his woman as opposed to splitting bills or taking turns - you are well within your rights to find a more generous man who has the nature to want to spoil - just ensure you treat them in others ways just as much and to please give as much as you get in other areas of the relationship.

 

For me personally, I prefer to do the cleaning and give more back rubs, massages, scratches, foot massages and the like - I ACTIVELY try and do MORE in other areas - since my bf foots the bill for restaurants and hotels and dates...... and enjoys treating me to nice bday and xmas gifts, as well as spoiling me with the occasional dress.

 

I am sure the OP does her share, she just prefers men to take care of the dating side of the mix! Nothing wrong with that! Please don't insult her or undermine her world views, wants and desires just because YOU all prefer to go halvsies.

[BikerAccnt]

I'm probably old fashioned, because I'm old and all, but, I think the first few dates the man should pay, even if it's an expensive restaurant, and even if he accepted his dates choice of restaurants.

 

That said, it's then in the man's ballpark to decide if he wan't to see you again based upon how he felt for such an expensive second date. The fact that he isn't exactly reaching out to you, may be his way of saying, thanks but no thanks.

 

I've been going out with the woman I'm seeing for almost 2 mos. now. I finally let her pay for a meal this past weekend, and I still feel odd about it. I insisted on leaving the tip.

 

I sometimes think something has been lost in the whole push for total equality..treating men and women the same as if there are no differences (as far as dating is concerned I mean.)

[No_Go]

I don't know if she's a gold digger but she's clearly not accustomed to live within her means.

 

I make 6 figures, my BF as well, and we have yet to visit such an expensive restaurant... I'm absolutely NOT comfortable spending what would account for weekly groceries for 2 in one night! If it was our 50 years anniversary or a big job promotion - I may have given it a though.

 

Btw since he paid for all activities on date 1 - OP should have paid the WHOLE bill, not her part. That's taking turns. If she can't afford it because she's a student- she could have suggested a pizza or tacos for lunch and still enjoy the date without spending more than what she has.

 

A man's biggest fear when dating someone he met online is if she is using him just for his money. Just as danger or fear of being just used for sex is a woman's.

 

You suggested an expensive restaurant with the full expectation that he pay for it on a second date. That combined with the fact that you're a student with little income would have had me concluding that there's a strong likelihood that you could be a golddigger.

 

Even if you're not a golddigger you're basically setting an expectation of I like to be treated to expensive things early and often. This might not be a problem for a guy with lots of money or really desperate guys that want sex.

 

It's easy for so many women to say men should pay for first few dates, because they've never felt used just for their money.

[JoeSmith357-1]

Equality is great, until it doesn't work in your favor... that's what I am seeing here. You can't have it both ways.

[angel.eyes]

Suggesting an expensive restaurant (and $70 per person is REALLY expensive, it's the kind of place my guy and I go to only a few times a year, even though we make decent money) on the 2nd date is a really, really bad idea. I do enjoy being taken out on a date and treated, but I would never suggest something that expensive with the expectation that he'd pay, and especially not with someone I'd only had one date with. It doesn't matter that you said 'maybe it's too expensive', that's just waffling - if it's too expensive, don't even suggest it.

 

Thanks you. It depends on the two people involved and the location. You would be hard-pressed to spend less than $70 per person at a halfway passable restaurant in many places.

 

I met my current boyfriend via OLD. He spent close to $500 on our first date. I thought nothing of it because it was a restaurant I frequent with my friends for dinner anyway.

 

If the guy felt the restaurant was too expensive, he could have easily said something. The OP gave him an out by saying, oh it's too expensive. He could easily have said, "You're right," and they would have gone elsewhere. No harm, no foul.

[BikerAccnt]

Thanks you. It depends on the two people involved and the location. You would be hard-pressed to spend less than $70 per person at a halfway passable restaurant in many places.

 

l.

 

This is kinda what I was thinking. 70 bucks would be on the high end here where I live but, in a larger city I would think that wouldn't be too bad. IF the 70 bucks included a full course meal and alcohol, it's really not bad at all.

[angel.eyes]

I agree with this, but the OP also needs to rethink her own behaviour IMO. Suggesting a very expensive place on the 2nd date and then playing the whole bathroom stunt hoping that he would pay is just crass. Even if he had been a genuinely good guy who was interested in her, he could legitimately have just been put off by her behaviour.

 

Well, I head to the restroom when the wait staff start clearing our dessert plates. I need to brush my teeth. It's not game playing. What's crass is torturing my date with onion breath for the rest of the date!

[No_Go]

I'm very curious at what income bracket are you and in which part of the world do you live to consider $500 dinner 'nothing to think about'?

It kind of makes me wonder because I have never spent that amount of money on a meal in my lifetime and I make a pretty decent salary, live in a very expensive city on the East coast and lived in other very expensive places around the globe.

 

Thanks you. It depends on the two people involved and the location. You would be hard-pressed to spend less than $70 per person at a halfway passable restaurant in many places.

 

I met my current boyfriend via OLD. He spent close to $500 on our first date. I thought nothing of it because it was a restaurant I frequent with my friends for dinner anyway.

 

If the guy felt the restaurant was too expensive, he could have easily said something. The OP gave him an out by saying, oh it's too expensive. He could easily have said, "You're right," and they would have gone elsewhere. No harm, no foul.

[Leigh 87]

Ah, quoted directly from the liberated woman rulebook––NOT! Numbering the items of female reasoning does not make it more weighty than one [female oriented] opinion.

 

I think the funny thing––odd in any scenario––is how you can rationalize that you're being egalitarian by picking up half of a check, or paying once, after a man has paid for several. You're just inching a teeny-tiny bit out of the nineteenth-century, then patting yourself on the back for being a modern woman.

 

With online dating, people go on a lot of first and second dates that don't go any further. Why should the entire burden of that fall on one gender? That's what you're doing by expecting that the guy always pays for the first few dates. First dates are more like interviews, a chance to figure out if there is a basis for a second date. Benefits both equally.

 

Do women actually have so little sense of self-efficacy (or such a sense of entitlement), as to expect the guy to pay your way, not knowing if you'll ever see him again? Doesn't it reek of... well, I guess not seeing as how many think it's an appropriate compromise.

 

If you want to actually be egalitarian rather than just pretending, be there when the check comes and genuinely expect to pay half. Put your card next to his and tell the waiter to put half on each. Then you can be warm and fuzzy if you're feeling it, or just shake hands and say goodbye if you're not.

 

Once some sort of dating relationship develops and you know you'll be seeing each other, start taking turns or whatever is comfortable for you both.

 

Nothing is more transparent than the slow reach, where she pretends to be going for the wallet while waiting for a guy to say, no, put it away - I've got it.

 

I was so used to this that I had almost accepted it as standard protocol before I met my girlfriend. When I said, "that's ok I've got it," she softly but firmly said, "no, I prefer to pay half." My first thought was, uh, this means she doesn't want to see me again. I was wrong. She texted me the next day and let me know. Second date we went to a more expensive place, shared a dessert at her suggestion (indicating something), and we split again. After that we started taking turns. We've done a few trips and it always comes out about even––she never expects a free ride just because she's female. I respect that tremendously.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand- why don't you want to spoil her?

 

Assuming you work full time and are comfortable- why go halves on everything?

 

Have you ever had a girlfriend who you were so besotted with that you just felt the need to treat her and spoil her with small weekend trips away and the like?

 

I understand overseas trips being split - but taking equal turns for dinner dates? My friends fiance is on 90k and he spends about 12k a year on daily breakfasts and weeknd dinner dates.

 

Why? Because he just cannot help but want to spoil her

[Leigh 87]

I think actions speak louder than words on this one.

 

He paid for all of the activities on date #1 which I think is generous and I think Op should have chipped in for something within the 7 hours.

 

On the second date again 7 hours to me is enough time to actively chip in or pay for something outright - instead she went to the toilet for 10 minutes and said she hoped he would have paid the $140 bill for the meal in the more expensive restaurant she wanted to go to.

He probably had plenty of thinking time to twig she was hoping the bill would be paid in her absence - and then her card fails..

Legit I guess if she had lost the card - except it sounds odd that the card was lost but was the one she was attempting to pay with?? That I'm really confused about.

I don't blame him at that stage for letting her deal with her bank to sort out payment for her share.

 

I've never been on a first date (or had a relationship) where I've let the man pay - it's always 50/50 even though I have only ever dated one man who earned less than myself. The rest all earned more but it was still always 50/50 or take turns - with no strict whose turn it is thing.

 

If I am in a situation where I can't afford my share of dating I don't date.

 

Sorry OP and I don't mean to offend you here at all but in two dates over 14 hours there would have been plenty of opportunity to even just make token payments for joint things - he may well have covered the $140 if your actions had shown willing and generous.

 

 

 

Some men with money actually ENJOY treating a woman. They don't want to have to go dutch because if they are on good money- going dutch seems a tad petty......

 

I will never understand the mentality if a man who can well afford weekly meals out- yet chooses to split the bill ( when he has the money to treat his gf AND save AND spoil himself on top of it all!)

[ChickiePops]

I always offered to split the check when I was dating. Some guys would take me up on it and some wouldn't..I didn't view either differently because of that.

 

 

The thing that is odd to me is that the OP said the restaurant was out of her price range, the guy said they should go in anyway, and then he made her pay for herself. He should have just moved on to a different restaurant if he hadn't been planning to pay. Perhaps he wasn't expecting the bill to be as big as it was and maybe he panicked when he saw it.

 

 

Anyway to me, that was kind of a douche move..although I don't think women should expect to be paid for all the time.

 

 

My fiancé rarely lets me pay for anything, but I always offer anyway.

[angel.eyes]

I will never understand the mentality if a man who can well afford weekly meals out- yet chooses to split the bill ( when he has the money to treat his gf AND save AND spoil himself on top of it all!)

 

People have every right to spend their money or not however they please. That's their prerogative. They don't need your approval.

 

What matters in dating is whether their views and choices match what you expect, want, and value. If it doesn't match up, you're not compatible. On to the next.

[salparadise]

 

I don't understand- why don't you want to spoil her?

Assuming you work full time and are comfortable- why go halves on everything?

 

1. because this is the 21st century

2. she makes more than I do

3. she doesn't want to be spoiled that way, she'd rather be respected

4. she is a fully functional, competent professional... not a princess

 

 

Have you ever had a girlfriend who you were so besotted with that you just felt the need to treat her and spoil her with small weekend trips away and the like?

 

I've had girlfriends who felt entitled to that, and whose self-worth was associated with how much she could get a man to pay for access to vagina.

 

Never again.

[JDPT]

I believe in women's equal rights in which she can contribute some of her money as well for a good time.

[JDPT]

Where did this whole the "man should pay" for dates? I don't care to spoil anyone because maybe i work hard for my money and will like to allocate it wisely as opposed to splurging and trying to "impress" someone who most likely isn't worth spending a dime on.

 

And then men get called "cheap" how about cost effect, I like that better. And I've had women spend hundreds of dollars on dinners on me and i'll be quiet honest I didn't feel one bit bad about it because they make great money and so do I but if she's willing to pay for it hey why the hell not?

 

I've learned to go dutch on a lot of things and not feel weird, awkward or looked at as a chepo. We all earn a living and if women want to go out have a great time and do all these fun things well then they should be ready to pull out their purses like we pull out our wallets as well, done lol.

 

Fellas feel free to jump in because I know there is a significant amount of guys who feel the same way I do.

[JDPT]

I think actions speak louder than words on this one.

 

He paid for all of the activities on date #1 which I think is generous and I think Op should have chipped in for something within the 7 hours.

 

On the second date again 7 hours to me is enough time to actively chip in or pay for something outright - instead she went to the toilet for 10 minutes and said she hoped he would have paid the $140 bill for the meal in the more expensive restaurant she wanted to go to.

He probably had plenty of thinking time to twig she was hoping the bill would be paid in her absence - and then her card fails..

Legit I guess if she had lost the card - except it sounds odd that the card was lost but was the one she was attempting to pay with?? That I'm really confused about.

I don't blame him at that stage for letting her deal with her bank to sort out payment for her share.

 

I've never been on a first date (or had a relationship) where I've let the man pay - it's always 50/50 even though I have only ever dated one man who earned less than myself. The rest all earned more but it was still always 50/50 or take turns - with no strict whose turn it is thing.

 

If I am in a situation where I can't afford my share of dating I don't date.

 

Sorry OP and I don't mean to offend you here at all but in two dates over 14 hours there would have been plenty of opportunity to even just make token payments for joint things - he may well have covered the $140 if your actions had shown willing and generous.

 

amen to that!

[JDPT]

Do you really have to go out to the toilet to have him pay for the bill? Does it really matter who pays? I'm a woman and I really don't mind paying bills.

 

 

Just curious, when would you start paying for your dates normally? on the 3rd? 4th? or would you only start to pay for yourself?

 

 

As for the 3rd date, I think it's just a bit communication issue. He did ask you out for a football game. If you want to see him just ask. No big deal

 

We need more women like you in this world.

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

I think the funny thing––odd in any scenario––is how you can rationalize that you're being egalitarian by picking up half of a check, or paying once, after a man has paid for several. You're just inching a teeny-tiny bit out of the nineteenth-century, then patting yourself on the back for being a modern woman.

 

 

Oh it's SO NOT about being egalitarian, it's about taking a page out of the "common courtesy" guide book to social relations and returning the gesture to a man because I like him and enjoy his company and wish to show I am there for the company not a meal ticket. Make no mistake about it I like to be romanced and men like to romance, it works just fine.

 

If a date asked me to go Dutch i'd be completely turned off on principle not because I can't afford or won't pay. I'd rather just pay for the entire bill.

 

If a man insists on paying a few times first then I'll let it happen if I like him and want to see him again.

 

If I wanted to go Dutch I'd be out with the handful of cheap-ass girlfriends who pull out the calculator when the bill comes because they had one less slice of bread from the app plate.