Should he have paid the 2nd date? Why isnt he asking me out for 3rd yet? [updated]

[No_Go]

I'd personally freak out and leave a partner spending 13% (12000/90000) of his gross income on dates. For me this will mean in a marriage (i.e. the time that his money and my money become one entity) he will be burning my hard-earned cash for entertainment - no thanks.

 

Dates/entertainment should come only after the necessities - usually 25% on taxes, 30% on rent/mortgage+utilities, 10% on food and consumables, at least 10% on retirement, and preferably also 10% on other investments and/or liquid savings - so 75% of anyone's salary is unavailable.

- Note here I haven't accounted transport and medical expenses+ various emergencies, nor holidays

- Also note this will be the split pretty much for any 'standard' salary - I'm not inputting anywhere the absolute numbers

 

So yeah >10% on dating is just ... irresponsible IMO.

 

 

 

I understand overseas trips being split - but taking equal turns for dinner dates? My friends fiance is on 90k and he spends about 12k a year on daily breakfasts and weeknd dinner dates.

 

Why? Because he just cannot help but want to spoil her

[No_Go]

If a date asked me to go Dutch i'd be completely turned off on principle not because I can't afford or won't pay. I'd rather just pay for the entire bill.

^ That's what I think works best. Paying for entire bill on some dates, letting the dude to do the same on others.

 

I can't fanthom going on 3 activities with a stranger (date 1) and not offering to pick one of these for BOTH.

 

Btw I personally hate splitting with friends /coworkers / relatives as well - I think it works much better if I pick the entire bill one time, and they pick it another time. I'll split only with strangers that I'd never see again.

 

 

Oh it's SO NOT about being egalitarian, it's about taking a page out of the "common courtesy" guide book to social relations and returning the gesture to a man because I like him and enjoy his company and wish to show I am there for the company not a meal ticket. Make no mistake about it I like to be romanced and men like to romance, it works just fine.

 

If a date asked me to go Dutch i'd be completely turned off on principle not because I can't afford or won't pay. I'd rather just pay for the entire bill.

 

If a man insists on paying a few times first then I'll let it happen if I like him and want to see him again.

 

If I wanted to go Dutch I'd be out with the handful of cheap-ass girlfriends who pull out the calculator when the bill comes because they had one less slice of bread from the app plate.

Edited August 29, 2016 by No_Go

[Sunkissedpatio]

I'd personally freak out and leave a partner spending 13% (12000/90000) of his gross income on dates. For me this will mean in a marriage (i.e. the time that his money and my money become one entity) he will be burning my hard-earned cash for entertainment - no thanks.

 

 

In the history of all the men I've ended in relationships with long-term, who were very generous in the early stages of dating, I have never encountered one man who had a tendency to blow his money frivolously on entertainment and was incapable of saving for meaningful things.

 

In every case it just equated and spoke to their courteous and generous nature, which suited my personality very well because I'm the exact same way.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I can't fanthom going on 3 activities with a stranger (date 1) and not offering to pick one of these for BOTH.

 

.

 

Im the same way

[No_Go]

I think in the post that I cited Leigh was referring to her friend's fiancee, so it is far from early courtship.

 

Otherwise I agree with you that frivolous and generous are different things.

 

In the history of all the men I've ended in relationships with long-term, who were very generous in the early stages of dating, I have never encountered one man who had a tendency to blow his money frivolously on entertainment and was incapable of saving for meaningful things.

 

In every case it just equated and spoke to their courteous and generous nature, which suited my personality very well because I'm the exact same way.

[Robert]

Folks,

 

We have a consolidated discussion about paying for dates here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/525895-new-consolidated-paying-dates-thread

 

From this moment on, any general posts about paying for dates that don't apply to the threadstarter's specific situation will be deleted and that member will be put on moderation for a minimum of 3 days.

 

Thank you for your cooperation,

~6

[smackie9]

OP time to step up and ask him out, and make sure you tell him it's your treat. Go do something that he would enjoy and what you can afford. Report back here. Let us know his reaction and how it went. One thing I know about men, they really appreciate reciprocation. Don't sit on your tuffet, waiting for him to text you. If the guys are on here saying it's not the 1920's that it's the 21st century, dating has changed, then it shouldn't look bad for you to ask him out.

 

Over 25 years ago when I was single, I had np asking men out on dates. I was never turned down, not even once. I was no desperate uggo either. Guys thought I was too "expensive" looking to date.

 

So what do you really have to lose? If the guy is only out for sex, I'm sure you can figure that out pretty quickly.

[aSadGirl]

I think actions speak louder than words on this one.

 

He paid for all of the activities on date #1 which I think is generous and I think Op should have chipped in for something within the 7 hours.

 

On the second date again 7 hours to me is enough time to actively chip in or pay for something outright - instead she went to the toilet for 10 minutes and said she hoped he would have paid the $140 bill for the meal in the more expensive restaurant she wanted to go to.

He probably had plenty of thinking time to twig she was hoping the bill would be paid in her absence - and then her card fails..

Legit I guess if she had lost the card - except it sounds odd that the card was lost but was the one she was attempting to pay with?? That I'm really confused about.

I don't blame him at that stage for letting her deal with her bank to sort out payment for her share.

 

I've never been on a first date (or had a relationship) where I've let the man pay - it's always 50/50 even though I have only ever dated one man who earned less than myself. The rest all earned more but it was still always 50/50 or take turns - with no strict whose turn it is thing.

 

If I am in a situation where I can't afford my share of dating I don't date.

 

Sorry OP and I don't mean to offend you here at all but in two dates over 14 hours there would have been plenty of opportunity to even just make token payments for joint things - he may well have covered the $140 if your actions had shown willing and generous.

Exactly. It absolutely boggles my mind that there is so much support for OP here and the guy is being called cheap(!) as well as other insinuations about his character like this is entirely on him, especially after the tacky way OP manoeuvred him into taking her to this restaurant and then ran off when the bill came.

 

I missed that when reading through this first time and the more detail I read now the more I think this guy needs to run and never look back. That OP is getting so much support just depresses me and makes me wonder about the entitled mindset of women on the dating scene these days.

 

OP I would gently suggest that if you are a student and struggle to make ends meet that you adjust your tastes accordingly- if a guy you go on a date with actually offers to take you to an expensive restaurant then make sure he knows that you can'tell afford it unless he is willing to pay and then there can be none of the nonsense that sparked off this thread. I rather suspect that you knew what you were doing looking at the menu for that restaurant and as another poster pointed out you put him in an awful no win situation as if he agreed to go somewhere cheaper there is then the distinct possibility that you would still be on here calling him cheap because you didn't get the meal you really wanted to have.

 

Honestly, this thread gives me the impression that women actually expect to have their company paid for simply because vagina and what is worse any man who doesn't comply is shamed (with a great sense of entitlement and no little irony) as being cheap.

 

 

Im sorry you are offended. I dont think he is that cheap, i agree he actually was treating me a lot the first date, i offered to pay entrance to a casino which he was suprisingly thankful for but we ended up not going cause his ID card was broken so we werent allowerd to go in..

 

And you missed another detail again as many others: I didnt ran away when the bill came! We had just finnished the food and wine.. held hands and looked deeply into each other´s eyes.. he was on the toiled just a while before this then i said i have to go for it.. I came back and he said "should we call in the bill?" and i said with a smile "yes sure :)" when the bill came i want hezitant to put my card on it, i just put it there and smiled. I had forgot my card in a shop before we met which he knew cause i already said it back there and then.. so i dont think he thought i was trying to get a free meal without money on the card.. I happily transfered money from an account to another and smiled the whole way.. i think he was understanding and then when we went to a bar he was super-eager to pay the wine, he even asked me "what do you want to drink?" I still played a bit stupid and went to the cashier to pay my wine but he said "its done" so i said thank you.. then we sat down, talked, flirted laughed and kissed passionately.. it was so lovely and intimate and felt right <3

 

 

 

Text+

For me personally, I prefer to do the cleaning and give more back rubs, massages, scratches, foot massages and the like - I ACTIVELY try and do MORE in other areas - since my bf foots the bill for restaurants and hotels and dates...... and enjoys treating me to nice bday and xmas gifts, as well as spoiling me with the occasional dress.

 

I am sure the OP does her share, she just prefers men to take care of the dating side of the mix! Nothing wrong with that! Please don't insult her or undermine her world views, wants and desires just because YOU all prefer to go halvsies.

Thank you for your consideration and that is correct! I also am VERY generous with other things in a relationship and can easily "give other sevices" but paying out at a restaurant is a man´s job i feel.. i rather fix stuff at home, cook nice dinners and clean, massage him etc som extra than feeling almost embarassed that the man im with on a date isnt paying for me

because that makes me feel as though he doesnt like me so much and doesnt care others (waitress or people around) know that too.. hope you people understand and stop judging. In retospect I can understand why he didnt pay the bill and im FINE with it, really.. because i had super-good chemistry in all other ways these 2 dates so im happy anyway!!! I mean it. So dont point fingers or feel sorry for me or him.

 

Today he texted me "have a fine day :-*" (with a kiss smiley). And i replied "Thanks, you too :-* "

I wished he would ask me out after that but he didnt.. so im not sure if i have to ask him later today "Would be fun to see each other as last week tomorrow after my course again " or what do you guys think about that.. does it sound legit?

Edited August 29, 2016 by aSadGirl

[TXGuy]

I'm glad to see things are still going well. Other have suggested that you ask him out, which would be perfectly fine and appropriate. If you are looking to entice him into asking you out again, Another option is to raise up your text game. Instead of giving dead end replies to his texts (e.g. 'Thanks, you too.') give him something to work with. Throw in some flirty banter. That might get him engaged.

[aSadGirl]

I'm glad to see things are still going well. Other have suggested that you ask him out, which would be perfectly fine and appropriate. If you are looking to entice him into asking you out again, Another option is to raise up your text game. Instead of giving dead end replies to his texts (e.g. 'Thanks, you too.') give him something to work with. Throw in some flirty banter. That might get him engaged.

 

 

Thank you for your reply TXGuy!

 

Hmm i thoiught about saying "hope you didnt have to work out in the rain. Im having a great day, will soon go to workout with a friend im inviting over to my home. Would be fun to meet at wednesday evening again? I have some ideas this time but im glad just to see you wether we do some activity or not ;)"

 

hmm?

[TXGuy]

Thank you for your reply TXGuy!

 

Hmm i thoiught about saying "hope you didnt have to work out in the rain. Im having a great day, will soon go to workout with a friend im inviting over to my home. Would be fun to meet at wednesday evening again? I have some ideas this time but im glad just to see you wether we do some activity or not ;)"

 

hmm?

 

That's good, but I would strike out 'workout with a friend I'm inviting over to my home' unless you want him to wonder if it is a girl or a guy.

 

The ask out is perfectly fine.

 

An example of adding flirty banter would be to say that you are 'heading to the gym wearing your new pink spandex top'. It doesn't really matter if you have a new top, but that will get him thinking about you in a skin tight shirt and will likely result in a playful reply.

 

Another suggestion. Don't put too many thoughts in a single text. That will make a coherent reply awkward or impossible.

[aSadGirl]

That's good, but I would strike out 'workout with a friend I'm inviting over to my home' unless you want him to wonder if it is a girl or a guy.

 

The ask out is perfectly fine.

 

An example of adding flirty banter would be to say that you are 'heading to the gym wearing your new pink spandex top'. It doesn't really matter if you have a new top, but that will get him thinking about you in a skin tight shirt and will likely result in a playful reply.

 

Another suggestion. Don't put too many thoughts in a single text. That will make a coherent reply awkward or impossible.

 

Thank you, how about this message:

 

"Hope you didnt have to work in the rain!

I had fun yesterday with a friend, we excersised at the gym then drank tea at my place, so cozy! But what are you up to? Would be fun to see each other tomorrow "

 

Maybe that´s too forward? I feel im almost sounding like a man asking him out like that.. hmm? Thing is i tagged myself and my friend on facebook so if he looks he can know its a girl not a male

Edited August 30, 2016 by aSadGirl

[Dis]

Thank you, how about this message:

 

"Hope you didnt have to work in the rain!

I had fun yesterday with a friend, we excersised at the gym then drank tea at my place, so cozy! But what are you up to? Would be fun to see each other tomorrow "

 

Maybe that´s too forward? I feel im almost sounding like a man asking him out like that.. hmm? Thing is i tagged myself and my friend on facebook so if he looks he can know its a girl not a male

 

I think TXguy was spot on about the reply

 

Take out the meeting up with a friend part and keep is short, sweet and flirty

 

Say, "Hope you didnt have to work in the rain yesterday, I was thinking about you while I was working out in my tiny shorts Want to meet up on Wednesday?"

[Dis]

Also want to add...

 

Are you sure you want to move forward with this guy???

 

After finding out the dinner was $70 per person (ridiculous for a second date) I can understand him not wanting to pay for the whole dinner.....

 

However....I still think its unacceptable that he watched you fumble around trying to pay for the whole dinner....he at least couldve paid for his meal and drinks considering you were having problems with your card

 

I wouldnt go out on another date with a guy that couldnt step up to the plate when I needed him to

 

Next time let him pick the place and dont go to the bathroom when the check comes....and do make sure he picks up the check this time around....if he's still interested

[aSadGirl]

I think TXguy was spot on about the reply

 

Take out the meeting up with a friend part and keep is short, sweet and flirty

 

Say, "Hope you didnt have to work in the rain yesterday, I was thinking about you while I was working out in my tiny shorts Want to meet up on Wednesday?"

 

Also want to add...

 

Are you sure you want to move forward with this guy???

 

After finding out the dinner was $70 per person (ridiculous for a second date) I can understand him not wanting to pay for the whole dinner.....

 

However....I still think its unacceptable that he watched you fumble around trying to pay for the whole dinner....he at least couldve paid for his meal and drinks considering you were having problems with your card

 

I wouldnt go out on another date with a guy that couldnt step up to the plate when I needed him to

 

Next time let him pick the place and dont go to the bathroom when the check comes....and do make sure he picks up the check this time around....if he's still interested

 

Thanks for you reply!

 

First point:

Why should i put in sexual innuendos with the "working out in my tiny shorts ;)" it sounds too sexist to me...

 

Second point:

I didnt funble to pay the whole dinner, only my own part!

 

Third point:

I didnt go to the bathroom when the check came - i went there after we finnished up our food/wine and i felt i had to pee... when i came back he said "shall we take the check?" And i said "yeah sure :)"

[Els]

Well, I head to the restroom when the wait staff start clearing our dessert plates. I need to brush my teeth. It's not game playing. What's crass is torturing my date with onion breath for the rest of the date!

 

The OP explicitly stated that she went to the restroom hoping he would pay while she was there, and that she was disappointed when he waited for her. It wasn't about needing to brush her teeth.

 

For reference:

 

I even was to toilet for maybe 5-10 minutes before the check.. sort of hoping he would take and pay it while i was away, but when i was back he still hadn´t asked for the check!

 

 

Thanks you. It depends on the two people involved and the location. You would be hard-pressed to spend less than $70 per person at a halfway passable restaurant in many places.

 

I've lived in a city that ranks in the top 15 most expensive (in terms of cost of living) in the world, and visited two cities that rank in the top 10. In NONE of these places did you have to spend $70 per person if you wanted anything nicer than McDonalds. There are alwaysmid-range options IMO.

 

I met my current boyfriend via OLD. He spent close to $500 on our first date. I thought nothing of it because it was a restaurant I frequent with my friends for dinner anyway.

That's fine, but clearly doesn't apply to the OP. She's a student. Students really have no business suggesting $70 p/p restaurants on a 2nd date.

 

If the guy felt the restaurant was too expensive, he could have easily said something. The OP gave him an out by saying, oh it's too expensive. He could easily have said, "You're right," and they would have gone elsewhere. No harm, no foul.

I have never said that that was a smart move on the guy's part. Doesn't change the fact that it was a terrible move on the OP's.

 

It's fine that the OP wants to be treated, but expecting to be treated to a $140 date on her 2nd date with a new person when she's a student and would never be able to afford it herself, going to the bathroom 'hoping' it'd deter him from letting her pay her share... all of that is just plain crass.

Edited August 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Dis]

Thanks for you reply!

 

First point:

Why should i put in sexual innuendos with the "working out in my tiny shorts ;)" it sounds too sexist to me...

 

Second point:

I didnt funble to pay the whole dinner, only my own part!

 

Third point:

I didnt go to the bathroom when the check came - i went there after we finnished up our food/wine and i felt i had to pee... when i came back he said "shall we take the check?" And i said "yeah sure :)"

 

Its just flirting...the word 'sexist' implies some type of discrimination....which is much different than flirting. IMO, if you look good flaunt it...guys need something to visualize...there needs to be some sexual tension there...you dont need to go over the top...just be light and flirty

 

But if you're not comfortable with it dont do it...just know that unless you keep up some type of flirty banter....things could fizzle out....and considering the way you two left off...some flirting could go a long way

[Els]

I'm very curious at what income bracket are you and in which part of the world do you live to consider $500 dinner 'nothing to think about'?

It kind of makes me wonder because I have never spent that amount of money on a meal in my lifetime and I make a pretty decent salary, live in a very expensive city on the East coast and lived in other very expensive places around the globe.

 

Agreed. While it's certainly 'possible' to splash $140 or even $500 on a dinner for two, I think what a lot of people don't realize is that cost doesn't always correlate to quality or enjoyment. Sure, degustation menus and haute cuisine are great - on special occasions. (And if you still can't hit the $500 price point, you can always just 'cheat' and order the beluga caviar ).

 

But that really isn't the end-all-be-all of enjoyable dining, not even enjoyable romantic dining. Even if I earned $300k/year, I'd still want to go to that cute French bistro with gorgeous $20 mains, or that modern gastropub with a lovely garden atmosphere at a similar price, or that hole-in-the-wall place run by an Italian couple with an open kitchen. And don't even get me started on great Asian food (though the really good ones are probably not very suitable if you want a romantic atmosphere...).

 

There is so much that you can do on an affordable budget, it just strikes me as close-minded to say that you need to pay >$140 for a 'halfway passable restaurant'.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Elswyth

[Leigh 87]

I'd personally freak out and leave a partner spending 13% (12000/90000) of his gross income on dates. For me this will mean in a marriage (i.e. the time that his money and my money become one entity) he will be burning my hard-earned cash for entertainment - no thanks.

 

Dates/entertainment should come only after the necessities - usually 25% on taxes, 30% on rent/mortgage+utilities, 10% on food and consumables, at least 10% on retirement, and preferably also 10% on other investments and/or liquid savings - so 75% of anyone's salary is unavailable.

- Note here I haven't accounted transport and medical expenses+ various emergencies, nor holidays

- Also note this will be the split pretty much for any 'standard' salary - I'm not inputting anywhere the absolute numbers

 

So yeah >10% on dating is just ... irresponsible IMO.

 

 

Why is it irresponsible? They are both well off, childless and have a healthy deposite for a mid range mortgage.

[No_Go]

Why is it irresponsible? They are both well off, childless and have a healthy deposite for a mid range mortgage.

 

I did the detailed split in my previous post. 13% dating costs leave very little wiggle room for emergencies even in well off childless couples (I'm myself a part of one of these). That's just my personal opinion though.

[No_Go]

Totally agree that quality and price do not always correlate.

 

I'll still stand my ground that nowhere in the world (to my knowledge) $500 is a 'routine go-out with friends' price. I live in Boston, lived/worked in NY, SF, various places in Europe - and I have yet to see a place where that's considered 'normal go out price'. That's why I challenged OP to share her income bracket and/or location if what she cites is real.

 

Agreed. While it's certainly 'possible' to splash $140 or even $500 on a dinner for two, I think what a lot of people don't realize is that cost doesn't always correlate to quality or enjoyment. Sure, degustation menus and haute cuisine are great - on special occasions. (And if you still can't hit the $500 price point, you can always just 'cheat' and order the beluga caviar ).

 

But that really isn't the end-all-be-all of enjoyable dining, not even enjoyable romantic dining. Even if I earned $300k/year, I'd still want to go to that cute French bistro with gorgeous $20 mains, or that modern gastropub with a lovely garden atmosphere at a similar price, or that hole-in-the-wall place run by an Italian couple with an open kitchen. And don't even get me started on great Asian food (though the really good ones are probably not very suitable if you want a romantic atmosphere...).

 

There is so much that you can do on an affordable budget, it just strikes me as close-minded to say that you need to pay >$140 for a 'halfway passable restaurant'.

[PogoStick]

Re: the working out in tiny shorts comment. The OP sounds like she wants to go slow and mentioned something about 10 dates before sex. I think she just misused the word "sexist". She's concerned about sending the wrong message, and I agree!

 

She can be flirty without being sexually suggestive. Talk about tiny shorts will have the man thinking about sex, and might make him feel disappointed when she's not ready to go there.

 

Instead she can mentioning thinking about his lovely face, warm hug, etc. It's important that she conveys the appropriate expectations, especially since she isn't too good about communicating her feelings directly.

 

Personally, I think she should more directly express her sexual expectations. Do not say "10 dates" because a guy will be counting Say things like "I want to go slow" or "I don't have sex until I'm in a committed relationship" etc. I would like her to go so far as to say "I'll tell you directly when I'm ready, until then don't push the boundaries". If she can handle that responsibility and communicate openly then everyone can relax about the sex issue and focus on building the relationship.

 

Note, that might scare off the man if he doesn't want to wait, but figuring that out now is best for everybody.

[Els]

I'll still stand my ground that nowhere in the world (to my knowledge) $500 is a 'routine go-out with friends' price. I live in Boston, lived/worked in NY, SF, various places in Europe - and I have yet to see a place where that's considered 'normal go out price'. That's why I challenged OP to share her income bracket and/or location if what she cites is real.

 

I agree with you, but the $500 thing was mentioned by angel.eyes I think, not the OP.

[Miss Peach]

I might be a bit old fashioned but I have always let the guy set the pace in the beginning and ask me out. It's pretty rare guys don't ask me out for third dates so I'm not convinced asking him out is going to change anything since you are still responding to his texts. Every man I've dated felt that as long as I was clear about going out with them they were happy to keep asking.

 

I work in a male dominated industry and know most of my (male) coworkers will be chatty to keep the woman teed up but he has other things going on (sometimes other women). They deliberately text updates like that without requesting a date. I don't think it's accidental he hasn't asked you out yet. He's either waiting for some reason or he's fishing for attention.

[Dis]

Re: the working out in tiny shorts comment. The OP sounds like she wants to go slow and mentioned something about 10 dates before sex. I think she just misused the word "sexist". She's concerned about sending the wrong message, and I agree!

 

She can be flirty without being sexually suggestive. Talk about tiny shorts will have the man thinking about sex, and might make him feel disappointed when she's not ready to go there.

 

Instead she can mentioning thinking about his lovely face, warm hug, etc. It's important that she conveys the appropriate expectations, especially since she isn't too good about communicating her feelings directly.

 

Personally, I think she should more directly express her sexual expectations. Do not say "10 dates" because a guy will be counting Say things like "I want to go slow" or "I don't have sex until I'm in a committed relationship" etc. I would like her to go so far as to say "I'll tell you directly when I'm ready, until then don't push the boundaries". If she can handle that responsibility and communicate openly then everyone can relax about the sex issue and focus on building the relationship.

 

Note, that might scare off the man if he doesn't want to wait, but figuring that out now is best for everybody.

 

I typically wait about a month into an exclusive relationship until I'll have sex with a guy....but I'm a huge flirt/tease...which I'm aware isnt always fair to the guy