Anyone ever got MM/MW To fess up to why they didn't ever leave the M?

[whathappened610]

Just out of curiousity has any of the OW/OM ever got to have a platonic chat with your AP after the A where they told you the honest truth about what happened and why they choose to stay despite everything they said and done?

 

I'm not asking what are the reasons they stay.. I'm asking if the AP was ever honest enough to say "hey, the feelings were real but I just can't leave my wife, kids, house, etc..."

 

I have debated contacting exAP in the future bc I'd like him to say those words to me and stop being a coward about it. I just want him to own up to it all. I gave him several chances in our 9month A to tell me, I asked him if he'd like to work things out with his BS and everytime he'd say no and that he doesn't have feelings for her and he's not in love with her.

 

I'm leaning toward not reaching out to him but I just wonder how many of you have either been the MM and fessed up the reason to your AP or been the OW who got her answers?

[angel.eyes]

Why are you expecting honesty from a proven liar. Someone who has backstabbed their own spouse repeatedly.

 

The why they won't leave their marriage is beyond irrelevant! They've chosen not to. Accept that and stop wasting your life on a total loser.

 

As for having a "platonic" chat with your AP? Isn't that how the whole mess started in the first place? Why go back there unless you're looking for more of the same?

[imperfectangel]

When my mm and I talked about it - he has said he isn't happy but that he can't leave his children. We are currently long distance and our a is ending so I can't hold that against him.

[Rikki67]

My MM has told me he has to at least make an effort to reconcile. He is now on effort #2. She is the one who wants this marriage, but expects him to do all the work. We`ll see how it holds up this time around.

[immokk]

It's almost inevitably because they are cowards.

 

They're clearly unhappy (who, when they are happy, goes looking for affection elsewhere) but they don't have the guts to risk the comfort.

 

I'm sure there is an element of guilt but don't let them tell you that they love the person they're cheating on. I know you don't do this to people you love.

 

Don't reach out.

 

Good luck, though.

[whathappened610]

Why are you expecting honesty from a proven liar. Someone who has backstabbed their own spouse repeatedly.

 

The why they won't leave their marriage is beyond irrelevant! They've chosen not to. Accept that and stop wasting your life on a total loser.

 

As for having a "platonic" chat with your AP? Isn't that how the whole mess started in the first place? Why go back there unless you're looking for more of the same?

 

 

I completely get what you mean about why would I expect honesty from a proven liar, but I guess I'm guilty of that quote that says "the problem with people who mean what they say is that they think everyone else does to"

In other words.. I'm guilty as far as the A goes to but over all I'd say I am still an honest person. I would give him any honest answer he ever wanted and I'd hope he's respect me the same.

 

Our A started with him contacting me and I think he had planned for it to be an A the whole time. I said platonic talk bc I am all the wiser now 9 months later. I'm not interested in starting this back up, not with him or any other unavailable guy. I don't deserve second best!

 

All I'm interested in is him fessing up. I just want him to admit that he lied about leaving or maybe even the part about wanting to be with me. I think that's huge for me bc I know I would fess up if he has asked that from me.

[whathappened610]

To all of you who have gotten answers or had the talk... What was your response? Did they say what that meant about you and did you ask? Did you ask if you were just an ego stroker, or if it was just for the physical aspect, or just to help them thru a rough marriage patch?

[immokk]

I discovered that you will never get the answer you want because the answer you want is the truth and they are cowards.

 

Largely, they are incapable of whole truth in the way that you or I might be.

 

I absolutely understand what you say. I always mean what I say, I am always sincere and so it has often been hard for me to see when other people aren't, because it does not make sense to me.

 

But believe me, any answer he gives to you will only bother you more... I suspect, even if he gives you the one you want.

 

Right up to the end my xMM said:

 

"I don't know what I will do now. The future I had in my mind was with you, and now that's gone and I don't know what I will do..."

 

Or something along those lines.

 

The fact is, as complicated as his home life was (and it was/is, I know this from other sources, this isn't what he says to me), there was always something more important than me... and I deserve better.

 

Things have become complicated for me again, a few months out, and I'm hurting but I am determined... he lied. All the time.

 

I love him. And this bothers me. But he lied. To everyone.

 

And himself.

[Rikki67]

I told my xMM, that if nothing else, I can keep my head high, because I know, I have never lied to you! And, I expected him to do the same. Well, that we all know wasn`t happening. I believe tho, that at the time they tell us they love us, and so on, they might actually believe it themselves. At least, that`s how I feel about the things my xMM said to me.

You will never get an answer that is completley satifactory.

[Ahurtgirl]

Mine didn't leave because I wasn't the right one for him even though we did love each other very much. A man will leave his wife to be with another woman if he finds higher value in her than staying in his marriage. He is very much unhappy with his wife but she holds the key to access to his kids and the comforts of home so until he meets someone who fits all the aspects of what he finds he needs in a mate, he will stay with her. Mine will cheat again with another woman and I think he may have recently started another affair as he was treating me exceptionally well again which usually showed me he was feeling guilty about something.

[whathappened610]

I discovered that you will never get the answer you want because the answer you want is the truth and they are cowards.

 

Largely, they are incapable of whole truth in the way that you or I might be.

 

I absolutely understand what you say. I always mean what I say, I am always sincere and so it has often been hard for me to see when other people aren't, because it does not make sense to me.

 

But believe me, any answer he gives to you will only bother you more... I suspect, even if he gives you the one you want.

 

Right up to the end my xMM said:

 

"I don't know what I will do now. The future I had in my mind was with you, and now that's gone and I don't know what I will do..."

 

Or something along those lines.

 

The fact is, as complicated as his home life was (and it was/is, I know this from other sources, this isn't what he says to me), there was always something more important than me... and I deserve better.

 

Things have become complicated for me again, a few months out, and I'm hurting but I am determined... he lied. All the time.

 

I love him. And this bothers me. But he lied. To everyone.

 

And himself.

 

 

IMMOKK ,

 

Thanks again for your reply! You don't know how much it means to me! I have read a few of your threads and feel like I can relate to u in some ways. Right down to the anxiety! And with all this being pretty new for me (been NC for 11 days) my anxiety is sky high!

 

Also those lines about your MM lying and all the time and to you and himself and his family... Yep spot on! But I still feel like I have love for him and I do feel like he probably loves me in some really messed up way. Just as I am sure your MM does you. Truth is they love their comfort more. The comfort of their marriage and everything it entails as far as society goes. And the comfort of not paying spousal support or child support.

 

We do deserve better.

 

Can I ask you a question IMMOKK, Do you find it hard to believe it got to this point in your situation?

As for me we had such a good connection and only had an EA (with kissing) but it just always felt so right and magical if you will. That it's hard to believe sometimes that this is how it ends..

[Chica80]

Don't ask. He will not tell you what you want to hear whether its the truth or more lies. All it will do is re open wounds for you.

 

I say this from experience. The whys plagued me for so long. Eventually you have to find your own answers. That's how you will heal.

[overseas2004]

I am in NC for 14 days right now and it feels awful but I am determined.

 

I think that most of the men really do mean that they want to be with you. But when reality hits and they have to leave the house that they own half of and the children that they love ... that its too much for love.

 

My MM is clearly unhappy (even though he didn't tell me one thing about his marriage) I could tell. But he really loves his kid. I love my kid too. Because truth be told --- I would never leave my kid for him.

 

I know some of the people on here may poo poo me, especially the judgmental shrews but monogamy is cool but humans aren't really built for 50 years of it.

[cozycottagelg]

Cheaters are cowards.

 

When you end a marriage, for whatever reason, you aren't just leaving a spouse. You are often leaving your home, your children, your comfort zone. Friends, inlaws, possessions...etc. You have a new identity. So a cheater has to do all of these very hard things, knowing that if they want to have a good honest clean relationship with their AP in the future, they have to introduce their world to a new person. That is frightening.

 

I left my husband recently, not for infidelity reasons, but because I was unhappy, and it was the scariest time of my life. I still can't believe I actually did it. And the idea of having my ex and my family and my KIDS meet a new person isn't even something I can picture or imagine...

 

So, I'd say, it's all those reasons.

[Midwestmissy]

If he can't tell his wife he's unhappy, he's not going to tell you why he's staying. The common denominator is him - he's a conflict avoidant liar. The problem is his character and the biggest lies he tells are the ones he tells himself. The bs (me) and the ow were just characters in the script he kept changing. He was a hot mess.

 

Fwiw, wh did admit that the whole issue he had was refusing to look at his FOO issues and inner turmoil. I was not the problem at all, just his doormat during the affair. The ow was a distraction from dealing with reality and made herself available. But it made his reality a lot worse when it came time to face facts. I'm sure if the ow reached out to him now, he would not be interested at all in explaining himself to her - she's a reminder of how close he came to losing a lot. He never wants to hear from her again and would be furious.

 

The mm will either lie to you (which will make you even crazier confused) since he's still in denial, or hang up/ignore since he's maybe dealt with his demons and piles you in with those - which will also be painful.

 

You're worth more than this crap. Don't walk into a situation you know will hurt and set you back.

[Forever broken]

From my experience and much reading from others, they never plan to leave. If someone wants to leave the spouse because they are unhappy, they will no matter the situation. In my case, I was 18 years younger than him so I guess he used me to boost his ego and for sex. Ouch?

[imperfectangel]

All respect, you can't say he wouldn't respond. He might well do and continue to lie to his bs

[privategal]

I'd think he would want to avoid that line of questioning like the plague as mm are usually conflict avoidant and would provide the type of answer that will cause the least harm, ie they couldn't bear to hurt their family etc etc

I just think it's a relief to be out of the affair for many of them as the guilt is heavy and the stakes are high they will lose tons of money too and their nest egg, home, respect of the community, church....

[immokk]

IMMOKK ,

 

Thanks again for your reply! You don't know how much it means to me! I have read a few of your threads and feel like I can relate to u in some ways. Right down to the anxiety! And with all this being pretty new for me (been NC for 11 days) my anxiety is sky high!

 

Also those lines about your MM lying and all the time and to you and himself and his family... Yep spot on! But I still feel like I have love for him and I do feel like he probably loves me in some really messed up way. Just as I am sure your MM does you. Truth is they love their comfort more. The comfort of their marriage and everything it entails as far as society goes. And the comfort of not paying spousal support or child support.

 

We do deserve better.

 

Can I ask you a question IMMOKK, Do you find it hard to believe it got to this point in your situation?

As for me we had such a good connection and only had an EA (with kissing) but it just always felt so right and magical if you will. That it's hard to believe sometimes that this is how it ends..

 

 

I find it hard to believe I got into the situation to begin with but I. Recognising how vulnerable I was after my dad's death. I don't think he deliberately manipulated that. He isn't like many of the narcissistic men seen in evidence here but I don't think he had the awareness to realise that he was essentially drawing me in at my lowest.

 

When I look at it now my heart ache. I love him. I won't say loved because I think it takes far longer than a few months to banish feelings so intense. In my situation it keeps rearing it's head and I desperately want it to now go away.

 

Am I surprised it got this far? I'm surprised at the depth I got in and the depth of my feelings. I'm surprised that someone as bright as me could be so badly deceived.

 

I'm genuinely sorry for the OW (and OM too, but I see far more WW leave their BS than WH) and for the B'S.

 

You'll see many a BS claim to be the only innocent and the true victim. I agree that they are BY FAR the most of both of these things but rarely is anyone innocent in its entirety and almost everyone is the victim of it.

 

The pain is often still excruciating because of everything he had been the person I spoke to first and last each day, he had been my friend. But I feel a lot of anger these days.

 

My issue right now is Damocles Sword.

[immokk]

All respect, you can't say he wouldn't respond. He might well do and continue to lie to his bs

 

This is actually more common than the alternative.

 

I'm. Constantly amazed by people's confidence in the words of these men after DDay.

 

I don't mean to be rude but he says he'd be furious, and maybe he would, or maybe it would just fluff his ego.

 

I don't know and understand you can only speak from what you see but I could never trust again.

 

I've seen what the OW side looks like. I've seen and felt what the MM says. The betrayal of the B'S is often far deeper than anything he'll admit

[elaine567]

I just think it's a relief to be out of the affair for many of them as the guilt is heavy and the stakes are high they will lose tons of money too and their nest egg, home, respect of the community, church....

 

I guess that is why many OWs after dday or the break up, bemoan the fact he is getting on with his life as if nothing had happened and she is in bits.

 

Great at the start, exciting NSA sex and a new person to explore and find out about, but once feelings get involved and the chances of being found out increases, and there is an expectation of it "going somewhere". It all becomes not so much fun and more of a burden and a source of stress for him.

[angel.eyes]

I completely get what you mean about why would I expect honesty from a proven liar, but I guess I'm guilty of that quote that says "the problem with people who mean what they say is that they think everyone else does to"

And by choosing to cheat with you, lie repeatedly to his wife, mislead you, etc., it should be crystal clear that he is not one of these people. He very clearly does not mean what he says. His word is most definitely not his bond. Hence your situation, right?

 

In other words.. I'm guilty as far as the A goes to but over all I'd say I am still an honest person. I would give him any honest answer he ever wanted and I'd hope he's respect me the same.

That's you! He, on the other hand, has misled you to forward his own selfish agenda this whole time. How was that being honest and respecting you during the affair? Why when things fall apart do you suddenly expect him to be honest and respectful when he was neither before?

 

Our A started with him contacting me and I think he had planned for it to be an A the whole time. I said platonic talk bc I am all the wiser now 9 months later. I'm not interested in starting this back up, not with him or any other unavailable guy.

I believe you aren't interested in an affair. But wasn't that true the first go-around too? You weren't looking for an affair at the start, were you? Yet here you are dealing with the consequences of your affair.

 

All I'm interested in is him fessing up. I just want him to admit that he lied about leaving or maybe even the part about wanting to be with me.

Obviously he lied. What purpose does a confession, assuming you're ever able to get one, actually serve? What would it change exactly? He still lied. He still wasted your time. You're still hurt from the affair. He would still do it all over again in a millisecond if he could get away with it. At best, all speaking with him will do is raise more questions and issues in your mind and leave you more confused and unsure. Add to that, generally all these "closure" talks do, is result in you returning for more of the same old affair and lies.

 

I think that's huge for me bc I know I would fess up if he has asked that from me.

You keep repeating this assertion as if it will magically yield a different result if you just say it enough times. Again, as stated earlier, that's you! He's a different type of animal with a different set of values. Stop expecting him to behave the way you would. That's in part how you landed in your predicament. You assumed he was like you, that he shared your dreams and wanted the same things you did. Unfortunately, that was not the case!

 

Let it go. The sooner you're able to stop perseverating on the whys of what he did or didn't do, the sooner you'll be able to focus on dropping him and moving on in your life. You aren't going to heal and get back to living your life, until you let go of getting him to do whatever it is you insist he should do...confess, apologize, or whatever.

 

Let it go!

[Midwestmissy]

I think his ego was fluffed for a bit, while they were no longer together, but he was still her boss. But it's been 2 years and he views her and what he did very differently now.

 

I do find it interesting that the op says she was at a low point when the affair began. That was the case for my wh too. He said finding someone similarly messed up/confused/down just seemed easier than dealing. It's total avoidance, but the consequences are impossible to avoid, and worse than whatever had him down in the first place. He projected his crap on me then wiped his hands and walked away. I think it may be one of the reasons the bs is always demonized - he's complaining about her, but it's really him. I'm not claiming to be perfect, but it's hard to behave well when you watch your life crumbling around you and you have no idea why. I also agree that there's no way on earth to force a man to stay in a marriage he wants out of. People leave every day, with kids, money etc. they stay because they are exactly where they want to be. The ow in his case was a married serial cheater who knew what she was doing. I'm sure she wasn't broken up about all this, she's moved onto the next mm.

[eye of the storm]

I still talk to my exMM. (I don't recommend that BTW. It made moving on much harder. In fact, I am still not 100% recovered.)

 

But to the topic. We have talked about why he won't leave. Inertia, finances, and dealing with both his and her families. He actually believes their adult kids would understand. Him staying is the path of least resistance. He isn't happy with her, he isn't miserable with her. They live almost separate lives. He tried to leave (obviously not terribly hard) and she demanded a year to compete. I asked him what changes she and he made, because if you are taking a year to work on your marriage you should be making changes. And he admitted that neither of them were doing anything different. So, they are both going back to pretending their marriage is fine. And if that is what he wants, then it is on him.

 

But honestly, I am not sure any response from an AP would make you feel better. Think of the options.

1. I love you but XYZ is standing in our way. this keeps you hanging on and unable/unwilling to move on because you are waiting for XYZ to change.
   
2. I can't leave till the kids are older. again, you keep hanging on hoping time will allow you to be together.
   
3. I just love my spouse more. This is a fun one, it means you really didn't matter to them. Insert knife and twist.
   
4. This is causing problems in my life. Another one that is lovely to hear, it means you were fun but now you are just another issue he doesn't want to deal with.
   

IMHO, what does the reason matter. What does matter is that they do not want to be with you. If they did, they would be. Or it is like I really want cake but don't feel like making one. You are not worth the effort.

 

The only thing that matters is actions. Are they choosing you. If they are not, then your actions need to matter. You need to choose you. And by doing that you need to leave any relationship that doesn't enrich your life.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Just out of curiousity has any of the OW/OM ever got to have a platonic chat with your AP after the A where they told you the honest truth about what happened and why they choose to stay despite everything they said and done?

 

I'm not asking what are the reasons they stay.. I'm asking if the AP was ever honest enough to say "hey, the feelings were real but I just can't leave my wife, kids, house, etc..."

 

I have debated contacting exAP in the future bc I'd like him to say those words to me and stop being a coward about it. I just want him to own up to it all. I gave him several chances in our 9month A to tell me, I asked him if he'd like to work things out with his BS and everytime he'd say no and that he doesn't have feelings for her and he's not in love with her.

 

I'm leaning toward not reaching out to him but I just wonder how many of you have either been the MM and fessed up the reason to your AP or been the OW who got her answers?

 

He said a few things which did contradict each other but if I summed them up, he would not walk away from his family, his vows, his money, his daughter and he would not - refused to - break up my family. He was very clear he wanted a LTA to see if it would work between us. Only if he was 100% certain would he have felt secure enough to "make the leap" and he was not at that point where he felt positive it would work.

 

So you see the contradiction. The only real truth is he wanted a LTA to complement his marriage. He was honest that he was not unhappy, they were just roommates but he was content, he had been looking for something on the side for years. I would bet it would have been a LTA forever. He never would have left. Why would he have? He would have had it all.