Anyone ever got MM/MW To fess up to why they didn't ever leave the M?

[Rockflower]

Norudder - I get you. Been there with abusive ex getting married too and friends going along / staying friends despite it.

 

"Wake Up!" I've wanted to scream that so, so often.

 

... then I realised, with help from my IC, that I AM awake and so many others are NOT. It also known as being authentic. The Matrix moment only really happens through major traumas / when really pushed to it, so most people plod through life taking the easiest route (even despite difficult situations / when there are hard choices). Hence, they stay in marriages due to fear.

 

Me, I somehow always take the hardest route. Not as self-flagellation, but because I see it as 'dealing' with the stuff that everyone else seems to sweep under the mountain of a carpet.

I'm likely to get some responses for having written that.

 

But I do know that I am awake - and as lonely as it seemed at the beginning and painful as it sometimes feels, you'll find that you gradually meet more and more that are.

[Rockflower]

I also believe that people will put themselves first and fear is the biggest factor in deciding that...that was one of my biggest life lessons (because I was conditioned not to):

 

Fear is a bigger motivator than pleasure and will always win.

When someone understands that fear is nearly always exaggerated / far from reality, they may be able to push through it.

 

Men usually want the easy route in relationships - throw in a bit of fear and Bob's your cheating uncle.

[Hummingbird29]

My MM and I had a huge DDday. She found letters, mix CD's, gifts. She showed up where we work (we work together - ugh - that's a whole other level of awful) and he told me he had told her that morning that he loved me and was leaving her. He let me comfort him while I thanked him for finally telling her how he feels and Leaving what he described to me a very unhappy, loveless, miserable marriage. Well - she called me at work that same day. I did not answer. From her voicemail I knew he had not told her any of that. She was fussing at me for 'trying' to have a relationship with her husband. I told him either you call and tell her the truth; or I will. I forced his hand and made him call her while I listened. He told her everything. That he loved me, we had been physical, the works. She said to get out, they were over...etc. he said to me 'we can finally be together!'

 

Fast forward less than 24 hours and he never got kicked out, and they are staying together 'for the kids' which has always been his excuse. He wants me to feel sorry for him for sacrificing me for his children. She isn't making him quit his job. We work twenty feet from one another. And guess what? He still calls and comes over and begs me to stay with him STILL and professes his undying love to me all day long. But then at 5pm POOF he is loving, apologetic, reconciling husband. He will never leave her and she will never kick him out. So I spend every day telling him to leave me alone.

 

Bottom line: they rarely leave. And they ALWAYS lie. We've been doing this close to two years. It always ends the same. With lies on top of lies.

[Hummingbird29]

To all of you who have gotten answers or had the talk... What was your response? Did they say what that meant about you and did you ask? Did you ask if you were just an ego stroker, or if it was just for the physical aspect, or just to help them thru a rough marriage patch?

 

Mine said I filled a void in his life. That his BS doesn't show physical affection and the way she likes to be loved is through material things and him doing chores around the house. I'm the polar opposite of that. He said he spoiled her and she doesn't appreciate him. With me on the side he can go home smiling and loving so I actually helped his marriage. I was making it possible for him not to be grumpy at home. Great feeling for me as you can imagine. I hope you catch that sarcasm...

 

I don't think his marriage is that bad. I think he is just selfish. A true narcissist. He needed me stroking his ego and her keeping his house. They are very into image and status. She's busted us several times. But she never kicks him out and he never leaves. Endless cycle. I wouldn't believe him if he said the earth was round. He cannot tell the truth.

[Midwestmissy]

Hummingbird, it seems that the most honest thing about him is his selfishness. He's spinning both you and bw incredible tales. Bottom line, he's a chicken. I'm not sure if you're still with him, but please know that often the things they complain about their wives are what's lacking in them. It's very possible she's not withholding and materialistic - my wh told his mow that about me because he wanted her to believe he was much more successful than he was. It also made her tell him that she in fact appreciated him for everything, not just his money. And it made her super enthusiastic, if you know what I mean. Then he came home and tried to act like all he did was work, he was exhausted, blah blah family man, husband of the year. He read off 2 different scripts.

 

Granted, he was only able to do it for a few months, they didn't love each other, it was a transactional relationship (attention for sex), and I was throwing up in the shower everyday because things didn't match up. Pretty sure he convinced her he was not appreciated at all and that he came home every night to me standing in the driveway with my hand out waiting for cash. I was actually trying to be mom & dad to very confused kids who wondered where dad was for 4 months and he missed their special events etc. I couldn't get him to a Christmas recital - I could never force him to stay in the marriage. Nor would I want a man who's staying because I told him to. I kicked him out, told him he was free to be with her and he burst into tears and threw her under the bus.

 

There was nothing original at all In his affair - I find similarities in all the stories, and the common thread is selfishness/entitlement.

[maryquitecontrary]

My AP years ago was always upfront about his feelings for the wife. He said she meant too much to him and that he didn't want to break up his home for his daughter's sake. He always told me he loved his wife and was sexually attracted to me and cared for me as a close friend.

 

Our affair was emotional in that we wanted to be desirable to someone again, but neither one of us fell in love. We looked at it as a relief for sexual tension because both of our spouses had not touched us in several years. I don't regret it one single bit. Our spouses never found out, however I am two years into a divorce in which my ex is asking for my medical records. Because my medical records disclose his abuse of me as well as the affair because I talked about it in therapy I decided to come clean in discoveries so I have nothing to hide anymore.

Edited September 3, 2016 by maryquitecontrary

[Hummingbird29]

Hummingbird, it seems that the most honest thing about him is his selfishness. He's spinning both you and bw incredible tales. Bottom line, he's a chicken. I'm not sure if you're still with him, but please know that often the things they complain about their wives are what's lacking in them. It's very possible she's not withholding and materialistic - my wh told his mow that about me because he wanted her to believe he was much more successful than he was. It also made her tell him that she in fact appreciated him for everything, not just his money. And it made her super enthusiastic, if you know what I mean. Then he came home and tried to act like all he did was work, he was exhausted, blah blah family man, husband of the year. He read off 2 different scripts.

 

Granted, he was only able to do it for a few months, they didn't love each other, it was a transactional relationship (attention for sex), and I was throwing up in the shower everyday because things didn't match up. Pretty sure he convinced her he was not appreciated at all and that he came home every night to me standing in the driveway with my hand out waiting for cash. I was actually trying to be mom & dad to very confused kids who wondered where dad was for 4 months and he missed their special events etc. I couldn't get him to a Christmas recital - I could never force him to stay in the marriage. Nor would I want a man who's staying because I told him to. I kicked him out, told him he was free to be with her and he burst into tears and threw her under the bus.

 

There was nothing original at all In his affair - I find similarities in all the stories, and the common thread is selfishness/entitlement.

 

I completely agree and I am so sorry you went through that. I admire your courage and insight. It all goes back to how I said they lie to both the ow and the bs. Neither will ever get the truth. He has always told me he doesn't love her and all they do is exist as roommates. He said she threatened to take the kids from him. His excuse has always been he can't lose his kids. I'm 100% positive he probably has said awful untruths about me and spun it to get her to let him stay. He makes a large salary and she doesn't and I'm sure that is somewhat of a factor. No matter what I assume I will never know the truth.

 

We are not together because I ended it when he did not leave her. But I'll be honest I have not blocked his number, and we work together so I still talk to and see him every day. And he still claims he loves me and asks me to wait for the dust to settle. He doesn't want me to date or move on. He's content with watching me and her suffer while two women wait for him. A narcissist dream. I am absolutely guilty of feeding it. I haven't slammed the door shut. Until I do, I deserve this pain. He's a classic cake eater. And I'm handing him a slice with all the icing.

[stillafool]

 

 

"If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with".

 

Or, one can chose to be alone. Why do you even have to have a man?

[Newstart7]

It all comes down to trust. A MM who cheats does not trust his AP because he knows she is capable of cheating on him. If his wife has cheated also, he still wants to trust her because it makes the playing field level in his mind and he trusts his wife in other ways especially if there are children that he relies on her to help care for.

[gettingstronger]

I am a BS, so take it for what its worth- in therapy it seems that:

 

 

he really doesn't know why he did it- when dday hit, the fog lifted and he could barely recognize the person that we was- I think "some" get in a mindset that they are different, that its harmless, that the spouse won't be too upset, everyone does it, etc and then- reality hits and they are faced with themselves and they have little idea how or why- they never meant to hurt the OW or the BS- their selfishness took hold and they let it-

 

None of the above is an excuse, but may explain why some MM may never be able to give you a straight answer- its not that they are lying to you, its they are lying to themselves because they can not face the why-

[Arieswoman]

Rockflower #52,

 

Men usually want the easy route in relationships

 

I was say that cheating men want the easy route. There are lots of guys out there who work hard at their relationships and can step up to the plate when necessary.

 

When I asked my cheating exH what he didn't fight for his marriage after DD he said " It's easier to start afresh with x than try and fix things with you."

 

Talk about lazy. I wonder if she knows she the easier option?

 

Not, "I love x so much I realised I wanted to be with her"

[eye of the storm]

I think I'm a little different than everyone here... I've been with my MM over 3 years now, and not once has he ever spoken to me of his wife and family. When our affair initially started, we laid out the rules (very business like...) the main rule being: He will never, ever leave his family. He didn't give me reasons, but really... I don't need any. His family means more to him than anything. Deep down I know he is terrified of losing his children, because it's the first time he ever truly felt unconditional love for another. I'm realistic enough to know that I could never compete with that. I literally know nothing about his relationship with his wife, but I can only expect they have a normal sex life and get along just fine.

 

The only time I've ever asked why he is doing this with me was in the beginning.. We just have some things we enjoy doing physically that most people don't, and so it started out as, "this is purely sex, we have to live out these thoughts/fantasies we never thought we could have" etc etc.. and I thought I was fine with that. And initially, I was. But as it went on and on... I grew more and more attached to him and before I knew it.. I was head over heels for this man. I've never asked for more from him because I know it's something that will absolutely never happen. I'm struggling with it now, intensely. I know I should stop but I can't.

 

Sadly you are not as unique as you think. My A took about 3 years for us both to get emotionally involved. But even though he loves me, he doesn't love me enough to choose me. And after 5+ years, I finally put my foot down. My exMM has never once told me his BS was a bad wife, never lied about them having sex. Like you, I was told he was into things his wife wasn't and in the beginning I was ok with that. I was working out my own issues after my divorce.

 

But I hate the "I know I should stop but I can't" bulls**t. Yes you can. You choose to play the victim. Take back your power and stop wasting it on someone who chose someone else over you.

 

I stayed as long as I did because for awhile the relationship gave me more joy than pain. When that changed I told him honestly that he either had to choose me or accept that I was leaving the relationship. He tried to get me to wait, I told him no. I had that ability. And so does everyone else. But we all hate losing the beautiful fantasy we built in our minds. I still miss it sometimes. But then I refocus and carry on with my day.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Who is the one you love though? Because from memory, this is your second marriage that you've been unfaithful in. The first ended because you cheated (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Are you yourself capable of monogamy, because from here it looks like you're a serial cheater. I know your current husband cheated too, but you've done it twice now

 

And you're right that men in their 40s can easily get a younger woman. So knowing that why risk your marriage by cheating?

 

You sound like you have an ax to grind with me but luckily I am in a good mood so I will answer your questions as perhaps you are trying to understand the mind of someone who strays.

 

My first marriage ended because my exH was very cruel and verbally abusive. He had lost his big chance to move to London - 9/11 happened, the investment firm not only retracted the offer but he lost his job as well. His father owned a company and we moved out of state. I knew no one, he was suicidal and became off his rocker, he blamed me for his job loss, which made no sense. At the same time my parent was killed in 9/11, so yes, I made the bad decision to have an A. It was short lived and H never knew. One day he put me in a choke hold and tried to kill me. I moved out and filed a police report, in case I needed a restraining order. The MM moved out as well but it did not work out. My H spent 8 years under the care of a psychiatrist. So you see, things are not always what they seem.

 

I am not sure twice makes me a serial cheater. I am glad I am not on trial with you as a jury but okay yes, I have a pattern. My xH and my current H also had affairs with married women when they were single too. Many people get sucked into these things. Most just don't talk about it.

 

Who do I love? My husband of course. At the time I thought I loved xMM but it was not love. It was a chemical addiction and I got sucked into all this crap about his poor health. Getting overly involved with problem people and trying to help them is a weakness of mine that people exploit at times. Could it have turned into love? I don't know. xMM is really not a great person, and I don't mean because of the cheating. He wants a woman to be his maid and cook and he was always yelling at him wife and making her cry. I do not think it would have lasted.

 

Why did I do it and risk my marriage? If you have never done it, it is hard to explain but when you do not have set boundaries and you are very lonely for years, you attract people who are like wolves. It is very flattering to hear someone say they are in love with you and need your help for things when your spouse directly tells you nothing will change. You take that first step, then another and then boom, its like cocaine and you will bring your whole world down to be with that person. I've read about it a lot. It truly is like an addiction.

 

I do believe I can be faithful yes. People can change. People give up alcohol, gambling, drugs. I am aware of my tendencies, my boundaries are strong and I am hyper aware of any male attention and unless there is a legitimate reason, I flat out ignore it.

[BuddyX]

Sadly you are not as unique as you think. My A took about 3 years for us both to get emotionally involved. But even though he loves me, he doesn't love me enough to choose me. And after 5+ years, I finally put my foot down. My exMM has never once told me his BS was a bad wife, never lied about them having sex. Like you, I was told he was into things his wife wasn't and in the beginning I was ok with that. I was working out my own issues after my divorce.

 

But I hate the "I know I should stop but I can't" bulls**t. Yes you can. You choose to play the victim. Take back your power and stop wasting it on someone who chose someone else over you.

 

I stayed as long as I did because for awhile the relationship gave me more joy than pain. When that changed I told him honestly that he either had to choose me or accept that I was leaving the relationship. He tried to get me to wait, I told him no. I had that ability. And so does everyone else. But we all hate losing the beautiful fantasy we built in our minds. I still miss it sometimes. But then I refocus and carry on with my day.

 

I'll like to add the following.

"Bail, when the crazy outweighs the hot"

[MidnightBlue1980]

It creates an imbalance and allows one to accept mistreatment, as it appears your husband is doing...The thing is everyone has a breaking point. Right now your husband is accepting, right now he is patient. However, I'm guessing it would not take much to pull or push him out if the marriage.

 

Which bring me to a question, do you believe you are abusing your husband?

 

How would I be abusing him? I don't see an imbalance.

[MidnightBlue1980]

You believe that? What I get from that is, you don't offer what my wife does, but you're cool enough to sleep with. The rest of it is BS to make it easier on him towards you, placating you if you will.

 

You seem like you have a great deal of anger.

[DKT3]

How would I be abusing him? I don't see an imbalance.

 

Affairs are abusive by nature, but basically grieving another man while he helps you is abusive to him mentally and emotionally.. it's taking advantage this weakness which is you at this point. As I said several times, I believe the clock is ticking and your time is Short.

[DKT3]

You seem like you have a great deal of anger.

 

No anger at all, none of these women are my wife. My point is when in affairs people believe some pretty unrealistic stuff that just makes those on the outside looking in shake their head.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Affairs are abusive by nature, but basically grieving another man while he helps you is abusive to him mentally and emotionally.. it's taking advantage this weakness which is you at this point. As I said several times, I believe the clock is ticking and your time is Short.

 

Well, he chose to stay. I gave him every out. He wanted to stay while I worked through my emotions. He saw how you get attached in these things firsthand.

 

Don't mistake my posting here for my real life. This is a therapy of sorts. Yes, my H forces me to tell him my feelings. And I am getting better.

 

Tell me, DKT3 - would you rather your wife lie to you about her feelings or be honest? Because those are your two choices.

[DKT3]

Well, he chose to stay. I gave him every out. He wanted to stay while I worked through my emotions. He saw how you get attached in these things firsthand.

 

Don't mistake my posting here for my real life. This is a therapy of sorts. Yes, my H forces me to tell him my feelings. And I am getting better.

 

Tell me, DKT3 - would you rather your wife lie to you about her feelings or be honest? Because those are your two choices.

 

Honestly, I chose to leave fairly quick after I found out. We are in a great place now, but had i had to watch her grieve openly another man I'm pretty sure there would be no us today. That's honest.

 

BTW, I don't think those are the only two options. It's great that he is open to it, but that's not what im talking about, I'm talking about you. You've clearly made husband plan B (actions over words) and as long as you openly grieve you continue to do so. Staying married requires two people, getting out only requires one.

[whatever29]

1. I love you but XYZ is standing in our way. this keeps you hanging on and unable/unwilling to move on because you are waiting for XYZ to change.
    
   

IMHO, what does the reason matter. What does matter is that they do not want to be with you. If they did, they would be. Or it is like I really want cake but don't feel like making one. You are not worth the effort.

 

The only thing that matters is actions. Are they choosing you. If they are not, then your actions need to matter. You need to choose you. And by doing that you need to leave any relationship that doesn't enrich your life.

 

Conflict avoidant coward who was lying to everyone. Yet said he wanted to start a new life for himself, with me of course, so he was a future faker too. He didn't care about me. I think in some ways I was just his one up on his wife type of thing. Which makes him also a child, but wanted me to believe he was a victim. Poor him. He didn't know what to believe anymore at the end...no wonder all of the lies. It was an easy out for him to just say..."well you are going to believe what you want to and feel what you want to, doesn't matter what I say." Too many lies to know what to believe - are you lying to W, me, yourself or all of the above.

 

It doesn't matter why he wouldn't leave...he didn't. He's a sad little man who has to live with his choices. Happy or not happy, that is no longer my problem.

[norudder]

Honestly, I chose to leave fairly quick after I found out. We are in a great place now, but had i had to watch her grieve openly another man I'm pretty sure there would be no us today. That's honest.

 

BTW, I don't think those are the only two options. It's great that he is open to it, but that's not what im talking about, I'm talking about you. You've clearly made husband plan B (actions over words) and as long as you openly grieve you continue to do so. Staying married requires two people, getting out only requires one.

 

This is interesting. Everyone does what is right for them. Your path had some unconventional turns.

 

The grieving process of ending one or the other relationships while with the other person. ... You're right, would be extremely difficult to endure. Whether you're the BS riding it out toward reconciliation or the AP riding out the D for the start of a "real" relationship. Painful to watch someone you love mourn someone else. Is it ego?

 

What some see as compassion others call being a chump.

 

I think its about knowing what your heart can handle and protecting it. The premise behind the advice for ow to move on and maybe try again aftEr mm gets over marriage ending. Guess the same advice can work for BS to to move on and maybe try again after the wayward gets over their AP, as worked for you.

[DKT3]

This is interesting. Everyone does what is right for them. Your path had some unconventional turns.

 

The grieving process of ending one or the other relationships while with the other person. ... You're right, would be extremely difficult to endure. Whether you're the BS riding it out toward reconciliation or the AP riding out the D for the start of a "real" relationship. Painful to watch someone you love mourn someone else. Is it ego?

 

What some see as compassion others call being a chump.

 

I think its about knowing what your heart can handle and protecting it. The premise behind the advice for ow to move on and maybe try again aftEr mm gets over marriage ending. Guess the same advice can work for BS to to move on and maybe try again after the wayward gets over their AP, as worked for you.

 

When I closed the door behind me as she stood holding the envelope the process server gave her in my mind that was it, there was no plan to reconnect once she was over that guy..

 

I have far too much respect for myself to have hung around while she cried for another man, for me that is making her choice.

 

Openly grieving an affair partner show a serious lack of empathy, respect and continues to display the selfishness that allowed the affair to happen in the first place, there is no R there, it can't be. It's simply twisting the knife. Using excuses like he doesn't want me to leave is weak, he didn't want the affair either, right?

 

 

I think it's beyond cruel to stay with a spouse simply because the AP wouldn't leave their marriage. If your willing to leave for an AP then it means your spouse doesn't measure up, so when it didn't work out with mm what changed in the marriage to make one want to stay?

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

Openly grieving an affair partner show a serious lack of empathy, respect and continues to display the selfishness that allowed the affair to happen in the first place, there is no R there, it can't be. It's simply twisting the knife. Using excuses like he doesn't want me to leave is weak, he didn't want the affair either, right?

 

 

I think it's beyond cruel to stay with a spouse simply because the AP wouldn't leave their marriage. If your willing to leave for an AP then it means your spouse doesn't measure up, so when it didn't work out with mm what changed in the marriage to make one want to stay?

 

Well, the alternative is hiding your feelings from your spouse. You can't just make your feelings go *poof*. At least I couldn't.

 

I'm not weak. Weak would have been running and ending my marriage. My husband wanted to work it out, that was his right. To take away his right, that would have cruel. He saw the part he played in my having an A - as I saw the part I played in his. It was not easy at all to work through everything. Running is easy. Staying, not easy.

 

When someone is willing to leave for an AP, it does not mean the spouse does not measure up, it often has nothing to do with the spouse at all. The WS is in the throes of an addiction. It is fantasy, obsession, a chemical high.

 

I know you don't understand as you have not been in the situation. It was no different from my getting addicted to cocaine and going through withdrawal. Do you stick by your spouse through hard times or do you kick them to the curb? My H chose to work it out. His choice. And he wanted me to talk about my feelings.

 

I don't know how to explain it any further.

[DKT3]

Well, the alternative is hiding your feelings from your spouse. You can't just make your feelings go *poof*. At least I couldn't.

 

I'm not weak. Weak would have been running and ending my marriage. My husband wanted to work it out, that was his right. To take away his right, that would have cruel. He saw the part he played in my having an A - as I saw the part I played in his. It was not easy at all to work through everything. Running is easy. Staying, not easy.

 

When someone is willing to leave for an AP, it does not mean the spouse does not measure up, it often has nothing to do with the spouse at all. The WS is in the throes of an addiction. It is fantasy, obsession, a chemical high.

 

I know you don't understand as you have not been in the situation. It was no different from my getting addicted to cocaine and going through withdrawal. Do you stick by your spouse through hard times or do you kick them to the curb? My H chose to work it out. His choice. And he wanted me to talk about my feelings.

 

I don't know how to explain it any further.

Not saying you are weak, but it was a weak excuse....you said something before that struck me, and honestly told me what you truly think of your husband and marriage. You said "oh well I should probably focus on my marriage before I have nothing" not your exact words but I'm too lazy to find it. That, right there makes it about the spouse, he is your runner-up. Have you told him that? Have you told him he is only there because the MM won't be? That is being honest with your feelings.