Sins of the Flesh

[Nowty V]

Various passages in the Bible are down on sins of the flesh, debauchery etc.

 

It is said one cannot move with the spirit if one indulges.

 

Is it interpreted as being not at all, period.

 

Does it refer to willy nilly fornication with diverse partners.

 

What is one's position with the spirit if one indulges solely with ones Wife?

 

To remain in a good light with the spirit does a married couple abstain?

[basil67]

There will be many varying answers depending on whether the church you follow is conservative or liberal in attitude.

 

From which church to you get your teachings?

[angel.eyes]

The Bible is the ultimate source for Christianity!

 

Nowty V, while Christianity denounces sexual immorality, including premarital sex, it celebrates sexuality within the boundaries of marriage. As an example, see the book of Song of Solomon (starts here: Song of Solomon 1 (ESV))

 

To be clear, a married couple is not expected to abstain. In fact, even if they mutually agree to abstain, they are discouraged from doing so for anything more than a short period of time. For example:

1 Corinthians 7:3-9 (RSV):

3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control. 6 I say this by way of concession, not of command. 7 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.

Edited September 4, 2016 by angel.eyes

[Nowty V]

From which church to you get your teachings?

 

I was raised Anglican High Church.

 

I've wandered since with some unhappiness, my pursuit

of knowledge has found me returning to the fold.

 

I'm not engaged with a congregation at present.

[angel.eyes]

Welcome back! Even if you aren't attending church, you can start re-reading the Bible on your own. I'm sure it will speak to you.

 

BTW, how were the beans today? Did they measure up or was it yet another disappointment?

[Nowty V]

you can start re-reading the Bible on your own. I'm sure it will speak to you.

 

Thank You

 

I have and it has

 

No time for Beans this morn, it's 04.50 UK and I'm on early shift

[angel.eyes]

Keep reading.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

Unpopular opinion in the Christian faith and what it is today, but I'll give it.

 

The Bible was written in a time when life expectancy was in the 30s. Children were married and having kids right when they got their period. The "virgin" marry for example had Jesus at 14. What would you think of your daughter in this day and age having a kid at 14? Well that was the norm back then.

 

So it's easy to say "virgin until marriage" and things like that when you are marrying off your daughters at 11? 12? 14? Years old. As for multiple partners and casual sex and things of that nature again we are talking archaic ideals that are difficult to apply in this day and age.

 

But I will question you on this thought.. sins of the flesh to me can be interpreted in different ways. For example if I want to get drunk every night of the week, that is a sin of the flesh. It's about the physical feelings in life. You can live your whole life for the physical feelings you get. Doing drugs, eating too much junk food, having too many sexual partners. It's more about not letting the physical aspects in life rule you, your life, your choices. There has to be a balance in life to achieve happiness. If you are only focused on the physical highs in life, you will always feel unfulfilled.

[planning4later]

Sounds like you are caught in legalism by the fact that you desire to "remain in good standing" with the Spirit. Firstly, nobody is in good standing. All are wicked in God's eyes. Secondly, by the term "Spirit", are you referring to the Living God or some kind of new age nonsense?

 

You cannot please God in the flesh. You must live by the Spirit and for the Spirit. This is the only way to escape condemnation. One must pray for wisdom to know what this exactly means. My best explanation is that you should ask yourself, honestly, what your heart is set on. Is it set on the things of this world--such as wealth, status, indulgence, and self promotion? Or is it set on the things of the Kingdom of God--such as righteousness, purity, truth, and the pursuit of what pleases God more than yourself? The former results in death; the latter results in life. Again, you must pray for wisdom on this issue and ask God how it will be shown in YOUR life.

[Nowty V]

If you are only focused on the physical highs in life, you will always feel unfulfilled.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Nowty V]

some kind of new age nonsense?

 

Certainly not.

 

I feel not the need to ask of God for answers, nor require any signs.

 

I'm sure what needs revealing will be revealed whether I ask or no.

 

The joy of being part of creation suits me fine.

 

I merely wish to live right to prevent further hurt by my errant ways and be able to treat others accordingly.

 

The enquiry was purely Carnal in nature.

 

Thank you for showing me how broad the question could be interpreted.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Nowty V
omission

[planning4later]

Nowty, living right does not guarantee your life will be free of suffering and evil. People throw rocks in the air and they fall on good people all the time. Look at Job in the bible. We should live rightly for its OWN sake and for NO other reason than because God commands it and it's right. This is hard for many to understand, especially in a world full of prosperity gospel Christians. Remember what satan asked God before all the misfortune fell upon Job? He asked, "Would Job worship God for nothing?" Satans question was actually true. Would YOU worship God for nothing? For no reward? Just because it's right? I think, perhaps, this is why God allows evil. Maybe.

[Nowty V]

planning4later, it's all conceptual and down to ones perspective.

 

There are no guarantees in this life apart from death.

 

My initial query and thread topic was in relation to intimacies with one's spouse.

[planning4later]

planning4later, it's all conceptual and down to ones perspective.

 

There are no guarantees in this life apart from death.

 

My initial query and thread topic was in relation to intimacies with one's spouse.

 

I think you can indulge with your spouse alone. With that being said, the bible does say that sometimes it's wise to refrain even from indulging with spouse so that we can recharge our hearts and refocus on the things of God--as long as both spouses agree on this and it's not used as revenge or manipulation.

[BC1980]

If you are talking about sex, I think you must take into account the time period in which the Bible was written. People were married very young, so it was easy to stay a virgin until married. These days, people get married in their late 20s or early 30s, so it's unreasonable to expect a person to stay a virgin until then. Sex is a natural and healthy part of life. We naturally want to have sex.

 

Also, a big reason for women to stay virgins was to protect them from pregnancy outside of marriage. Also, to protect the child from being illegitimate. The consequence were steep for an unwed mother even 50 years ago. In Biblical times (and centuries after), you would be forever tainted and unable to marry again, which posed a great financial problem for a woman. Marriage was advantageous to a woman because a woman was virtually unable to earn a living, so she had to rely on an advantageous marriage for financial reasons. If you could not find a man to support you, you basically became a burden to your parents or a brother to support you.

 

I think you also need to take into account that life expectancy is much longer today. People usually fall in love multiple times in a life span, and I do think it's somewhat unrealistic to expect a couple to remain married for many decades. People change in that time span and fall out of love. They may want to remarry another person after 30 years, and I think that's just natural. Today, we marry for love, which is a very new concept. Marrying for financial security and legitimacy of children has historically been the point of marriage. Emotions change quite often, and people fall out of love over time. So staking a marriage on an emotion (love) is a risky proposition.

 

All that being said, I think each person needs to decided for themselves how to proceed when it comes to sex. Sex has different consequences for men and women, and it always has. I've never seen anything in the Bible that points to premarital sex being specifically wrong.

[BC1980]

planning4later, it's all conceptual and down to ones perspective.

 

There are no guarantees in this life apart from death.

 

My initial query and thread topic was in relation to intimacies with one's spouse.

 

Are you asking what kind of sex is okay in a marriage?

[Nowty V]

Hey BC1980

 

I was more concerned with Fornication during marriage.

 

I am not married, not even close, I'm single.

 

I was raised a Christian but for whatever reason it didn't sit well with me.

 

In fact round about age four when I discovered Pontius Pirate was actually Pontius Pilate I felt most disillusioned .

 

As soon as I could avoid church, from age 13 onwards, I did.

 

I did not lose my faith but was rather a Laodicean for many years.

 

I had difficulty with the concepts I had drawn and the image of an old guy with a long beard sat on a cloud attending to his creation seamed highly improbable to me.

 

I have recently read Awareness by Anthony De Mello, it has been of great benefit, I would say it has turned up the heat on my faith.

 

In another thread BetheButterfly introduced me to Galatians 5 22:23 and I became stimulated by the vibe of the Spirit.

 

I had began to see myself as more of a Unitarian, the Church that gave me the horrors in childhood was called Holy Trinity Church.

 

It is all conceptual and thanks to the teaching of De Mello I feel inspired to open up a bit and be more receptive to the word.

[planning4later]

If you are talking about sex, I think you must take into account the time period in which the Bible was written. People were married very young, so it was easy to stay a virgin until married. These days, people get married in their late 20s or early 30s, so it's unreasonable to expect a person to stay a virgin until then. Sex is a natural and healthy part of life. We naturally want to have sex.

 

Also, a big reason for women to stay virgins was to protect them from pregnancy outside of marriage. Also, to protect the child from being illegitimate. The consequence were steep for an unwed mother even 50 years ago. In Biblical times (and centuries after), you would be forever tainted and unable to marry again, which posed a great financial problem for a woman. Marriage was advantageous to a woman because a woman was virtually unable to earn a living, so she had to rely on an advantageous marriage for financial reasons. If you could not find a man to support you, you basically became a burden to your parents or a brother to support you.

 

I think you also need to take into account that life expectancy is much longer today. People usually fall in love multiple times in a life span, and I do think it's somewhat unrealistic to expect a couple to remain married for many decades. People change in that time span and fall out of love. They may want to remarry another person after 30 years, and I think that's just natural. Today, we marry for love, which is a very new concept. Marrying for financial security and legitimacy of children has historically been the point of marriage. Emotions change quite often, and people fall out of love over time. So staking a marriage on an emotion (love) is a risky proposition.

 

All that being said, I think each person needs to decided for themselves how to proceed when it comes to sex. Sex has different consequences for men and women, and it always has. I've never seen anything in the Bible that points to premarital sex being specifically wrong.

 

Ah, the moral relativist.

 

Are you aware of the breaking research which shows that DNA from women's sexual partners shows up in their offspring even if not impregnated by that particular mans semen? Also, the DNA of a woman's child shows up in her brain tissue?

 

Please stop talking about the bible as being outdated. Your views are outdated and not backed up by the most cutting edge science.

[BC1980]

Hey BC1980

 

I was more concerned with Fornication during marriage.

 

So you mean adultery?

[basil67]

Ah, the moral relativist.

 

Are you aware of the breaking research which shows that DNA from women's sexual partners shows up in their offspring even if not impregnated by that particular mans semen? Also, the DNA of a woman's child shows up in her brain tissue?

 

Please stop talking about the bible as being outdated. Your views are outdated and not backed up by the most cutting edge science.

 

I've found a link to studies from Australia's UNSW on this. But it relates to flies. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141001090238.htm

 

At the time of writing, there was no evidence that this occurs in other species.

Edited September 6, 2016 by basil67

[planning4later]

At the time of writing, there was no evidence that this occurs in other species.

 

The word you're looking for is proof, not evidence. There's plenty of evidence.

 

As a third point, in continuation of my last post, do some investigating on the psychology of sex as it relates to satisfaction with spouse. After approximately 2-3 sexual partners, women's satisfaction with their current partner is inversely related to the amount of partners she has had. It also is inverse related to her marital success. In other words, the more partners a woman has had (in excess of 2-3), the more unstable and unhappy her subsequent relationships.

 

Interestingly...this is not true for men, according to research. Maybe there's a reason, albeit a sexist one, for why the bible stresses the importance of a woman's virginity.

 

 

Haters begin hating. The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

[BC1980]

As a third point, in continuation of my last post, do some investigating on the psychology of sex as it relates to satisfaction with spouse. After approximately 2-3 sexual partners, women's satisfaction with their current partner is inversely related to the amount of partners she has had. It also is inverse related to her marital success. In other words, the more partners a woman has had (in excess of 2-3), the more unstable and unhappy her subsequent relationships.

 

Interestingly...this is not true for men, according to research. Maybe there's a reason, albeit a sexist one, for why the bible stresses the importance of a woman's virginity.

 

Are you advocating that men should be allowed to sleep with many women, but women should remain virgins until marriage? I'm kind of confused about what you are advocating with relation to this research.

[Nowty V]

So you mean adultery?

 

No, not at all

 

Just Sexual relations between 1 woman and 1 man who are married to each other.

 

I should not have used that word.

 

I give up, maybe I should lose my faith after all, you guys just want to latch onto words and begin debating differences of opinion, basically have arguments.

 

No wonder the World is upside down, with religion at the heart of all the trouble.

 

"people who preach the Bible have less Bible in their hearts than those that don't"

 

And certainly NO spirit, where is forbearance, tolerance and love?

 

You people should find your own thread and be useless there.

 

IMO there are so many denominations of people worshipping the same 'God' because d*ckhead men seek power over others, they couldn't achieve power in what system existed so they went off and formed their own, just like David Koresh... too much dogma and discontent all with a power hungry man at the heart trying to prove he knows more than somebody else. And not for the others benefit, but to massage his own ego.

 

I was asking a simple question, and it had been answered adequately in the first place. I wished to know that if I was married, and it was what my wife required, could I on occasion restrain her lightly and rattle the living daylights out of her ... I believe I would cause no offence to the spirit or God if it was consensual, and had nothing to do with injuring her either physically or emotionally.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Nowty V
omission

[planning4later]

Are you advocating that men should be allowed to sleep with many women, but women should remain virgins until marriage? I'm kind of confused about what you are advocating with relation to this research.

 

I'm advocating nothing. Merely stating facts. Conclude what you will.