A vast sea of men not looking for work

[MidwestUSA]

Should that guy or even if it's a woman, get married, they'll take their spouses down with them if their spouses aren't aware that their future partner has some skeletons of serious debt going on.

 

Note to self: Find out your future partner's credit standing.

 

 

My husband is broke, and has no credit rating (well, he'd have one if they went into the negatives!)

 

I'm not responsible for debt he incurred prior to our marriage. This is the word from a bankruptcy lawyer, FYI.

[xxoo]

I have an interesting story, though it involved a man in his early 20's attempting to date. He didn't have a car, he was working part time, but was trying to find better work as he was a Masters degree graduate.

 

Dating was hard for him, because he wasn't one of "those" kids where the parent bought him his gar as a HS graduation present. So dating was tough, and the women of course, got their cars from their parents on their sweet 16 or HS graduation.

 

Those women wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole once they found out he didn't have a car. He eventually got a better job and earned enough for a car and got a car.

 

But he was saying, he found it funny how it's not HOW you got to be in that situation (without a car), as the only thing that mattered...to the women...is that you HAD a car.

 

Not HOW you had or why you didn't have a car. It was irrelevant, you were considered a looser regardless if your parents bought you one or not.

 

I mean, you can't say to the woman, "Well, your parents BOUGHT you YOUR car, so just because my parents didn't buy mine...it's a deal breaker for anyway?"

 

Does that make those women shallow or superficial because if they heard him out, they would think, "Oh, okay your parents didn't buy you a car...I'll drive!"?

 

Likely not to happen.

 

Maybe the women are thinking, "You're broke, AND your parents are broke."

 

That being said, my parents didn't buy me a car, and we won't be buying our daughter a car. So maybe he should focus on women who share his life experience.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Maybe the women are thinking, "You're broke, AND your parents are broke."

 

That being said, my parents didn't buy me a car, and we won't be buying our daughter a car. So maybe he should focus on women who share his life experience.

 

Yeah, good point. It starts in your teens.

 

The Defining Moment when you discover 3/4 ths of the kids in high school had parents that bought them cars and they get to park in the coveted "Senior Parking Lot".

[carhill]

Heh, great memory being the antithesis of my male role model, the guy with the good paying government job who always had the government car and bought a new one every couple years for the family and sent me to private school *but* made me buy my own car and insurance and, yup, I was driving the old car when classmates had the new car du jur; we had a lot of Italian Catholic families so I saw a lot of Fiats and Alfa Romeos, though no Ferrari's and the like, along with the usual and sundry BMW's and Mercedes. I think we picked up one guy's Fiat and put it in the school cafeteria

 

Anti-establishment behavior was already strong, along with a strong work ethic, though not job ethic, even at a young age, much to the chagrin of the family patriarch. Heh. In his strata his son the engineer flowed right off the lips; his son the grease monkey not so much Fun times. It was a choice and I don't blame anyone for any social shunning that occurred. They were always welcome in my car.

[Philosopher]

Sadly I keep running into more and more men who like to mooch off others, like to be underemployed, or are always moving from crazy idea to crazy idea.

 

If they are able to support themselves, say they inherited quite a bit of money or won the lottery jackpot I do not see much of a problem with people whom decide not to work. People should be free to do as they choose. However if they are mooching off someone else then I think it is a problem.

 

However personally I doubt I would be able to date a women long term whom was wealthy enough that they had decided they did need to work at all. To me it would just be too much a sign of laziness and apathy.

[xxoo]

Yeah, good point. It starts in your teens.

 

The Defining Moment when you discover 3/4 ths of the kids in high school had parents that bought them cars and they get to park in the coveted "Senior Parking Lot".

 

Lots of us who never were given cars married others who were never given cars, and now have children who will never be given cars.

 

Millennials are owning fewer cars, and teens are caring less about even getting drivers licenses! Maybe uber will be the great equalizer.

[spiderowl]

Wasn't quite sure where put this, figured the "In Search of.." would be appropriate considering how women are coming across men who are unemployed or unemployed.

 

But 7 million men between the age of "25 and 54 are neither working nor looking for work."?!

 

Not even looking? Why so many?

 

 

Laura Perrins: Working class men turn their backs on work  - The Conservative Woman

 

Basically, there are fewer and fewer jobs that pay people enough to live off. They might as well try to find other ways of getting money. Why don't people realise that new technology is putting people out of work? At a time when populations are increasing globally and resources are diminishing generally, why do people expect things like jobs, housing, food, to remain plentiful?

[anduina]

The U.S. labor force is 156.4 million. Seven million is 4.476% of the labor force.

 

It's not surprising since construction and the real estate market took a serious hit during the recession. Before the recession, it's likely a goodly portion of these men were employed building homes for people who couldn't afford their mortgages and now that there's insufficient demand for laborers, they can't find unskilled employment.

 

This is what happens in a developed economy that's service oriented where most of the assets, money and power are hoarded by the 1%. That and baby boomers who are living much longer lives and remaining in the workforce for a much longer period of time. This translates to no jobs, no future and no money for student loan mired or unskilled millennials.

[basil67]

I wonder if the stats on those not looking for work would change if your minimum wage was increased to be a living wage.

[GemmaUK]

They've actually said this to you? Sounds like they say it...and without shame either. It's baffling.

 

I mean, I have been down that road of long term unemployment myself after a lay off from a company...it happens, but at least i was applying and interviewing...though, I wasn't getting hired, a friend eventually hooked me up with a job...didn't really even interviewed...just filled out the tax paperwork and was hired.

 

I mean, times are hard, but at least make an effort? lol.

 

But I was wondering if there was some kind of connection between THAT and dating. Of course, with articles like that, is there more to the story?

 

Believe it or not, I have a female friend that is over 50 and had to move back in with 80-something mother...she just couldn't afford living on her own anymore with the part-time work she was doing.

 

When she was living on her own, all she was during the school year was a teaching asst. and during the summer, cleaned houses...and it wasn't with a cleaning service either.

 

I think she fell into all that because she was a housewife all her life, nothing more...and she divorced...and started doing those jobs I just spoke of.

 

But, men however, don't have a problem with this...*shrug* go figure...double standards because she's a pretty face? lol

 

Now, she is rather modest and not flashy....and she won't just date anyone. She's rather humble, but she tells me she gets asked out a lot...and even if they know of her living situation, to a man it doesn't matter.

 

She even had a male dentist offer to help her get back on her feet. He offered to let him borrow his car. Although, I think he had an ulterior motive to get her to be his g/f though. But she wasn't that desperate. lol

 

Yes, these guys do say it and it's baffling to me too!

 

The difference with your friend is she is sustaining herself.

Many of these guys don't even look after their own responsibilities - eg mum still does the washing, cooking and cleaning for them.

 

If, like your friend a guy was home taking care of his parent whilst doing what he could to sustain himself then I'd date him. It's a totally different dynamic when a parent needs care.

The guys I'm talking of are those whose parents still look after them.

[LookAtThisPOst]

The U.S. labor force is 156.4 million. Seven million is 4.476% of the labor force.

 

It's not surprising since construction and the real estate market took a serious hit during the recession. Before the recession, it's likely a goodly portion of these men were employed building homes for people who couldn't afford their mortgages and now that there's insufficient demand for laborers, they can't find unskilled employment.

 

This is what happens in a developed economy that's service oriented where most of the assets, money and power are hoarded by the 1%. That and baby boomers who are living much longer lives and remaining in the workforce for a much longer period of time. This translates to no jobs, no future and no money for student loan mired or unskilled millennials.

 

The whole reality of the situation, I read another article similar to this is that these men are simply sick of looking for work, applying, interviewing, but that one catch of not getting hired...even though they fully qualify, but someone's that's a buddy or someone related (who you know) they hired.

 

I know tons of people that got hired only because they were high school buds from 20 years ago. Pretty sad. He was a manager of a chain fast food join, but they hired him for a parts department...whom he has no experience as a mechanic or parts...they demoted the manager with 20 years experience to asst. manager....I guess he was nearing retirement age...so they were trying to "squeeze" him.

 

Also, a lot of these 40 or 50-somethings, DID (past tense DID) have flourishing careers at a major company, but got downsized, laid off, etc.

 

Sure...they pounded the pavement looking for work, didn't get jack...so they did what any normal person trying to keep the lights on would.

 

Work at a local big box retailer like a Home Depot or Lowes....and they usually wind up staying there for who knows how long *shrug*

 

Great...at least their employed right? But if a 40/50-something woman finds out he's gone from manager to home depot stock boy...well, let's just say that's not going to work in his favor...usually.

 

Unless he finds a woman that will hear his story of "riches to rags" and listens...then he might have a shot.

 

I'm not sure if she asks, "So haven't you been applying/interviewing?" He would go, "Sure...lots, but no one has hired me....so I'm stuck at the Lowes...for now."

 

But THEN...you have age-ism. You become less marketable the older you get....so the aforementioned previous professional turned Home Depot worker...will more than likely be stuck at the Home Depot or some other job like it.

 

If it's a 50-something he usually tries to live off his savings, working at this store until he starts collecting Social Security.

 

KNow a guy like this he's just shy of 60, so he's just holding out for the SSN.

Edited September 11, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[elaine567]

Unfortunately it is the reality for many people, men and women who find that at 40+ they are essentially on the scrap heap.

Great original job but get laid off and they find that another job on the same level or even a lot lower is out of their reach.

In the UK a lot of these older people do not claim benefit even if they are entitled. They live off savings, sell assets and start up small one man self employed "businesses". They often then do contract work for large companies. It is a way of giving themselves a job, but there are often no perks, no paid holidays or sick leave. Working all hours for little reward.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Unfortunately it is the reality for many people, men and women who find that at 40+ they are essentially on the scrap heap.

Great original job but get laid off and they find that another job on the same level or even a lot lower is out of their reach.

In the UK a lot of these older people do not claim benefit even if they are entitled. They live off savings, sell assets and start up small one man self employed "businesses". They often then do contract work for large companies. It is a way of giving themselves a job, but there are often no perks, no paid holidays or sick leave. Working all hours for little reward.

 

Very much spot on. There's those job agencies like Spherion that hire people to outsource to other companies to get temporary tasks job, they last several months too a couple of years, then it's back to searching again.

 

There's a lot of self-employed Work-At-Home (from online) opportunities out there. I'd say those are pretty nice, but it's mostly 1099 work, independent contractor.

 

So you have a bunch of 40-something people out there doing work as it comes through these venues. And yes no perks, or benefits, vacation/sick leave.

 

You call in sick, you don't get paid.

 

I know a guy that's a "handyman" but not through any company, he just helps neighbors out for odd jobs here and there.

 

But hey, at least he's workin' right? Just is the former boss of a company that no longer exists.

 

Sadly, even Disney is getting rid of their pensions. Pensions are becoming obsolete.

[Miss Peach]

If they are able to support themselves, say they inherited quite a bit of money or won the lottery jackpot I do not see much of a problem with people whom decide not to work. People should be free to do as they choose. However if they are mooching off someone else then I think it is a problem.

 

However personally I doubt I would be able to date a women long term whom was wealthy enough that they had decided they did need to work at all. To me it would just be too much a sign of laziness and apathy.

 

I don't have an issue with choosing or not choosing to work. Especially when done responsibly such as inheritance or by saving enough to retire. I actually want out of the rat race myself so I plan to work and save so I have the FU money to do things more meaningful to me. I would have no issues with men who choose to do the same.

 

The issue I have is when these people choose not to do anything and let the people around them save them. My XH did this. A year into our marriage he stopped working. He was always angry I became the breadwinner but he refused to do anything constructive about it. When we divorced (over something else) he did this to another woman. I have the bigger issues with men (or women) who sit on their butts and play poor me.

 

FWIW shortly before I met my current BF I dated a guy who was about to go through a layoff. But he planned ahead, save up some money, did volunteer work which helped him get another job eventually, etc. Even though when we dated this guy had no job, he had the drive to better himself so I didn't even think twice about dating him while he was unemployed.

[Els]

Who is supporting these men financially? I think it's laziness.

 

Probably taxpayers/parents.

[GemmaUK]

Probably taxpayers/parents.

 

One, the other or both in the situations of some men I have known.

Edited September 17, 2016 by GemmaUK

[bebe23]

Um...just how can a 30+ year old man go through years without employment?

 

A man's self worth and identity is usually determined by his work. Men are usually proud of how they contribute to society and support their families. We do too, but it usually isn't the No. 1 priority, as it is with men. No woman is going to want to adopt a grown up baby. It's a disturbing trend with young men nowadays, online I see so many men posting on this forum and others,wanting a girlfriend but also wanting to be basement dwellers and play video games, living at home!

 

Peter Pan syndrome is epidemic, and we are teaching our 9 year old son the value of good, physical hands-on work. Sure he loves video games and TV, but we tell him that schoolwork and obeying Dad when he asks him to help with tasks is more important.

[JuneJulySeptember]

No woman is going to want to adopt a grown up baby.

 

Why not?

 

I know women who don't work and don't have any kids. And they live a pretty damn good life too.

 

I'm going to visit one this weekend. I don't think she's worked really ever and she's in her 40s.

 

Why can't men enjoy those same spoils?

[LookAtThisPOst]

Why not?

 

I know women who don't work and don't have any kids. And they live a pretty damn good life too.

 

I'm going to visit one this weekend. I don't think she's worked really ever and she's in her 40s.

 

Why can't men enjoy those same spoils?

 

Funny you mention this, I know a woman over 50 that had to move back in with her 80-something year old mother simply because she couldn't afford to live in her apt. She worked at the most as a teaching asst. Which is a job that ONLY lasts during the school year. Paid like 9/hr. In the summer, she'd do odd cleaning/asst. living jobs....after so much of that, she moved in with her mother.

 

But she's a woman, aged 50, so I guess men don't care? lol

 

Thing is all she ever knew was being a mother, as she was only a stay at home wife/mother. That's all she ever knew. Would do part-time work while the husband worked full time. I guess after her kids went off to college, she was kind of at a standstill working that dead-end teaching assistant job.

[GemmaUK]

Funny you mention this, I know a woman over 50 that had to move back in with her 80-something year old mother simply because she couldn't afford to live in her apt. She worked at the most as a teaching asst. Which is a job that ONLY lasts during the school year. Paid like 9/hr. In the summer, she'd do odd cleaning/asst. living jobs....after so much of that, she moved in with her mother.

 

But she's a woman, aged 50, so I guess men don't care? lol

 

Thing is all she ever knew was being a mother, as she was only a stay at home wife/mother. That's all she ever knew. Would do part-time work while the husband worked full time. I guess after her kids went off to college, she was kind of at a standstill working that dead-end teaching assistant job.

 

This sounds quite drastically different.

At 80 years of age I suspect her mother needs some care if not more than just 'some'.

LATP, have you had to care for one or either of your parents yet?

[carhill]

I did do personal care for a parent and continued to work but it would have never worked if employed. No boss would have dealt with the crazy schedule caring for a crazy person necessitated. It was a marked advantage not having a job. Still, the mortgage got paid and exW, mostly, enjoyed the lifestyle she had agreed to when getting married. The parental care part wasn't included though, so that was a problem.

 

The general assertion though, caring for an elderly or infirm parent or family member, is something I'm seeing being increasingly common in my social circle. It hit me early because I was born late in parental life. Now my exW is dealing with it, friends are dealing with it, on and on.

 

Basically, people want what they want socially and, if they're sufficiently popular and attractive to get it, regardless of employment, they'll get it. That applies pretty equally.

[LookAtThisPOst]

This sounds quite drastically different.

At 80 years of age I suspect her mother needs some care if not more than just 'some'.

LATP, have you had to care for one or either of your parents yet?

 

Of course I had, twice. My grandfather while is was bedridden for 4 months when Hospice wasn't around, and then my own father.

 

But if you're willing to throw out a strawman argument because this 50-year old woman his piss poor out of funds and moved back in with a healthy parent. I would have to say this is the furthest you have EVER reached to make an argument.

 

Her mother is fine, she told me so. The reason she moved back in with her mother because she's out of funds....so stay on topic.

 

Me and my own mother know this neighbhor lady down the road, has a son that was lid off, in his 50s, moved back in with his mom and we think he's using his joblessness as an excuse to take care of his otherwise healthy mother.

 

Sure, she's older...and people have their issues when they get older, but not so bad that the adult kid needs to be around and using being unemployed as an excuse.

Edited September 17, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[GemmaUK]

I did do personal care for a parent and continued to work but it would have never worked if employed. No boss would have dealt with the crazy schedule caring for a crazy person necessitated. It was a marked advantage not having a job. Still, the mortgage got paid and exW, mostly, enjoyed the lifestyle she had agreed to when getting married. The parental care part wasn't included though, so that was a problem.

 

The general assertion though, caring for an elderly or infirm parent or family member, is something I'm seeing being increasingly common in my social circle. It hit me early because I was born late in parental life. Now my exW is dealing with it, friends are dealing with it, on and on.

 

Basically, people want what they want socially and, if they're sufficiently popular and attractive to get it, regardless of employment, they'll get it. That applies pretty equally.

 

Mu first stint at caring was during my school years but there were 3 of us so it was easier, plus mum wasn't in hospital at all so we cared for her at home.

That covered about 13 years.

 

Second stint with my dad over 9 years was a lot harder as he was in and out of hospital a lot. I was working full time and in a relationship so had to juggle the three. not easy!

[GemmaUK]

Of course I had, twice. My grandfather while is was bedridden for 4 months when Hospice wasn't around, and then my own father.

 

But if you're willing to throw out a strawman argument because this 50-year old woman his piss poor out of funds and moved back in with a healthy parent. I would have to say this is the furthest you have EVER reached to make an argument.

 

Her mother is fine, she told me so. The reason she moved back in with her mother because she's out of funds....so stay on topic.

 

Me and my own mother know this neighbhor lady down the road, has a son that was lid off, in his 50s, moved back in with his mom and we think he's using his joblessness as an excuse to take care of his otherwise healthy mother.

 

Sure, she's older...and people have their issues when they get older, but not so bad that the adult kid needs to be around and using being unemployed as an excuse.

 

Wow! Harsh man!

 

You seriously dislike her don't you!?

Fairplay if that is how you feel, but be open straight up about her situ if that is how you really feel. You have posted several comments about her and never once said any of this.

 

I hope you are honest with her.