Merin Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Hmm.. Well here a different take.. I divorced my Husband and it wasn't to "find myself" nor was it because I was having an affair, it was because my now EXH thought it would be a great idea to have an open marriage and wanted me to screw his friends. We have 2 Wee Peeps together and guess what.. they live with me full time not because I insisted nor because the courts decided but because my EXH wasn't and isn't all about being a full time parent.. he doesn't have our Kiddo's over nights EVER in his home, not because he can't or I won't let him but because he doesn't want too. My Little People now refer to thier Dad's weekends (which is suppose to be every other) as "Gma's weekends" thats my EXH's Mom because that is who they see and spend most of thier "Dad time" with when it's his weekend. Financially... He pays child support, not because he wants to but because the State I live in insist he does so.. trust me when I say while the support helps it doesn't cover all the expenses of 2 Little Kids.. I don't get alimony nor did I ask for it, I got half the debt from the marriage, all the assets were split equally. Am I all about getting married again.. hell no! Nobody "Wins" in a divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Because they're not cynical. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Because they're not cynical. A little cynicism is not a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Because they're not cynical. And because Romeos need Juliets. It's the way we're made Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo And because Romeos need Juliets. It's the way we're made I am fine without a woman in my life. In fact nothing but good things have happened for me since my divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
scratch Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Merin Am I all about getting married again.. hell no! Nobody "Wins" in a divorce. Do you feel that neither men nor women benefit from getting married? Originally posted by moimeme Because they're not cynical. This thread has been devoid of reasons that a man stands to benefit from a marriage that aren't glib. Can nobody take a stab at setting forth an actual reason? Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Merin We have 2 Wee Peeps together and guess what.. they live with me full time not because I insisted nor because the courts decided but because my EXH wasn't and isn't all about being a full time parent.. Many men are not interested in raising kids... Financially... He pays child support, not because he wants to but because the State I live in insist he does so.. Some men don't even do that...consider yourself lucky I don't get alimony nor did I ask for it, Some states have a minimum marriage length before alimony can kick in. In Michigan it is seven yrs. So if you've been married less than 7 yrs then alimony is not even an option. Am I all about getting married again.. Why? Whatever man you marry will have to raise some other dude's kids...not a fun task Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 The only reason for men to get married is kids because it is harder for men to have kids and raise them out of wedlock. That can be fixed if a man is willing to adopt. Besides kids there is nothing else a man gains from marriage. Everything else can be found outside of wedlock. I encourage single men to adopt. Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by scratch This thread has been devoid of reasons that a man stands to benefit from a marriage that aren't glib. Can nobody take a stab at setting forth an actual reason? I guess I'm just in a glib mood today... but just to please you: *I* need commitment too. I want one woman, for the rest of my life Link to post Share on other sites
Merin Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by scratch Do you feel that neither men nor women benefit from getting married? I'm not saying that people do not benefit from marriage, I'm saying I personally wouldn't want to get married again. I'm saying that nobody "Wins" in a divorce, especially when there are children involved. I'm saying divorce isn't better for one sex or the other, it's hard and it's painful for EVERYONE involved. Nobody goes into marriage with the idea that they will get divorced. My Parents have been married forever and I have nothing but respect for them and thier marriage.. I'm happy that the 2 of them have one another to lean on and keep company.. but IMO values have changed dramatically from back in the day to present time. I have nothing against folks who wish to get married, more power to them and hopefully life goes as planned... I'm saying for myself I don't want to go through another divorce nor put my Little People through something like that again. Link to post Share on other sites
scratch Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo I guess I'm just in a glib mood today... but just to please you: *I* need commitment too. I want one woman, for the rest of my life See my post #7 - I think most men marry for three reasons: 1. They want to "lock up" the woman for life. This is a dumb reason, because you're no more likely to be able to hang on to a wife than a girlfriend. She has to love you, and keep on loving you. Why do you disagree with this? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 This thread has been devoid of reasons that a man stands to benefit from a marriage that aren't glib. Can nobody take a stab at setting forth an actual reason? Why? Your mind is already made up so no amount of reasons will suffice for you, I imagine. You have made your choice in life. Others make others. I put it to you that your current perspective on marriage is subjective and coloured by bitterness and anger because of your own divorce and the circumstances that led up to it. Generalizations are bogus because humans are not identical in philosophy or emotional makeup or anything else. So you will get a stack of fellows flocking onto your post to join your chorus of 'women = bad, marriage = bad' and there will be some souls who do not share your viewpoint who will try to interject their opposing ideas and in the end nobody's mind will have changed. Put simply, it's futile. What annoys me a great deal is that cynics always insist their opinion of life is 'right', 'real' and 'true' rather than acknowledging that it is a subjective opinion which may not be shared by others. But that would require logic. Link to post Share on other sites
Merin Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale Many men are not interested in raising kids... Some men don't even do that...consider yourself lucky Some states have a minimum marriage length before alimony can kick in. In Michigan it is seven yrs. So if you've been married less than 7 yrs then alimony is not even an option. Why? Whatever man you marry will have to raise some other dude's kids...not a fun task 1) Then get a freakin vasectomy, keep it in your pants, or use birthcontrol 2) Consider myself "Lucky" what are you for real? These are HIS kids too, he was all about having them and just because he and I are no longer together doesn't mean his obligation to his offspring is void 3) I didn't ask for alimony nor did I want it.. think I already said that 4) Some other dudes kids uh? Sorry but NO those are MY Little People and I take care of them, I don't ask other people to raise my kids or support them.. not to mention the fact there are a lot of single Dads out there and whats up... you think it's any easier for a woman to help out with some other womans kids? Psshhhh... I help out with my BF's kiddo's not because I am raising them, or because they need another Mom but because they are amazing little kids who I like as PEOPLE and they didn't ask for the circumstances they found themselves in. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Merin I'm not saying that people do not benefit from marriage, I'm saying I personally wouldn't want to get married again. I'm saying that nobody "Wins" in a divorce, especially when there are children involved. I'm saying divorce isn't better for one sex or the other, it's hard and it's painful for EVERYONE involved. Nobody goes into marriage with the idea that they will get divorced. My Parents have been married forever and I have nothing but respect for them and thier marriage.. I'm happy that the 2 of them have one another to lean on and keep company.. but IMO values have changed dramatically from back in the day to present time. I have nothing against folks who wish to get married, more power to them and hopefully life goes as planned... I'm saying for myself I don't want to go through another divorce nor put my Little People through something like that again. but IMO values have changed dramatically from back in the day to present time. Values have changed for the worse. There are so many messd up kids today and I think it is in part because of the breakdown of the family. In theory I would love to have one of those happy long lasting marriage but I honestly don't think that is possible with most women. I feel like why even bother? Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Why? Your mind is already made up so no amount of reasons will suffice for you, I imagine. You have made your choice in life. This is a generalization I put it to you that your current perspective on marriage is subjective and coloured by bitterness and anger because of your own divorce and the circumstances that led up to it. This is a generalization Generalizations are bogus This is a generalization So you will get a stack of fellows flocking onto your post to join your chorus of 'women = bad, marriage = bad' and there will be some souls who do not share your viewpoint who will try to interject their opposing ideas and in the end nobody's mind will have changed. This is a generalization Put simply, it's futile. This is a generalization What annoys me a great deal is that cynics always insist their opinion of life is 'right', 'real' and 'true' rather than acknowledging that it is a subjective opinion which may not be shared by others. But that would require logic. This is a generalization Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by scratch They want to "lock up" the woman for life. It's not a lock up when she wants to make this commitment too. She has to love you, and keep on loving you. Of course. Commitment helps. Why do you disagree with this? Maybe I'm just less cynicised Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale This is a generalization This is a generalization This is a generalization This is a generalization This is a generalization This is a generalization You over-generalise. As a general rule Link to post Share on other sites
ReluctantRomeo Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by Woggle There are so many messd up kids today and I think it is in part because of the breakdown of the family. In theory I would love to have one of those happy long lasting marriage but I honestly don't think that is possible with most women. I feel like why even bother? Now on this point I understand you. I hope you do find a woman like this though. I haven't given up looking - I'm off to meet one right now Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo Now on this point I understand you. I hope you do find a woman like this though. I haven't given up looking - I'm off to meet one right now Women like that are a dying breed. They are so rare. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 This is a generalization x 6 No it's my opinion of this poster in particular. In theory I would love to have one of those happy long lasting marriage but I honestly don't think that is possible with most women. I feel like why even bother? You have chosen to believe, because of your unpleasant experience(s?), that all women are the same; i.e. untrustworthy, etc etc. This is faulty analysis and bad logic. Any basic course in stats will teach you that you need to gather evidence properly if you hope to support your case with any credibility. People who insist that only educated people post on their threads need to apply academic rigour to their own arguments. Were you to write a paper even for a first-year course in which you made the sort of unsupported statement that you have, you'd fail. Your 'evidence' is anecdotal only and therefore unacceptable in a discussion that purports to be logical. Now back to glibness Link to post Share on other sites
scratch Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Why? Your mind is already made up so no amount of reasons will suffice for you, I imagine. This post about the futility of trying to convinvce a closed-minded person of other perspectives is insightful, and often the case. But, perhaps there are some men and women out here, like Romeo (in whose perspective I am interested), who have genuine reasons for wanting to get married that I haven't considered. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme No it's my opinion of this poster in particular. You have chosen to believe, because of your unpleasant experience(s?), that all women are the same; i.e. untrustworthy, etc etc. This is faulty analysis and bad logic. Any basic course in stats will teach you that you need to gather evidence properly if you hope to support your case with any credibility. People who insist that only educated people post on their threads need to apply academic rigour to their own arguments. Were you to write a paper even for a first-year course in which you made the sort of unsupported statement that you have, you'd fail. Your 'evidence' is anecdotal only and therefore unacceptable in a discussion that purports to be logical. Now back to glibness I also see what other men go through and I see the mentality of the women i go on dates with. It is a big turnoff to me. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 But, perhaps there are some men and women out here, like Romeo (in whose perspective I am interested), who have genuine reasons for wanting to get married that I haven't considered. Fair enough. I would have preferred that your thread start on that premise rather than as a rant against marriage. I doubt you'll change your mind until/unless you find a woman that you feel you can trust. And, really, that is the only sort of woman you should marry. That you may have trusted one or two who proved untrustworthy has nothing to do with women in general and everything to do with the particular women you encountered. Recognize that and next time take a long time to get to know a woman, don't ignore any instincts you may have that something is amiss with her, and don't allow yourself to be fooled by infatuation. The best marriages are built on great friendship, much respect, and enduring deep affection (which should be called 'love' except 'love' is now used for everything from infatuation to real love), not lust, conflict, and gamesmanship. And pay attention to RR. We have several other excellent fellows who have good, balanced views on life, love, and relationships. Maybe even Tony will weigh in if you're lucky. I also see what other men go through and I see the mentality of the women i go on dates with And so do I. All this means is that you have high standards and will likely take longer to find someone who suits you. It doesn't mean she doesn't exist but rather that it will take some effort to find her. I have encountered very few men in my time that I'd even consider as potential mates; it's not that all men are bad or wrong or awful, it's just that I need certain qualities that are rare in the population at large. I agree that there's more cheating, selfishness, etc. but that's because people have issues, not because they're bad or wrong. So you need to look long and hard to find someone who is free from the sorts of issues that would cause her to treat you badly and who is as willing as you are to make a relationship work. It could take you years to find one but it's not impossible. Link to post Share on other sites
scratch Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Originally posted by ReluctantRomeo It's not a lock up when she wants to make this commitment too. Of course. Commitment helps. Maybe I'm just less cynicised "Lock up" was probably an overly colorful term. But, why, exactly, does a legal, public commitment enhance your ability to make or ensure an actual substantive commitment? Let me turn the allegations of cynicism around - perhaps it's less cynical to think that two people can have a lasting committed relationship without needing outside legal intervention. Thoughts? ETA: Moi, note of clarification. I did not start this thread, as you've alluded to twice. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Sorry, Scratch. I'm mixing you and Woggle up. Same cynicism (see, that emoticon indicates a teasing remark which you'd know if you saw the twinkle in my eye as I make it but is far too cumbersome to convey in words) Wish people would stick to one avatar. But, why, exactly, does a legal, public commitment enhance your ability to make or ensure an actual substantive commitment? It doesn't necessarily. I don't think it can be nailed down perfectly in logical arguments. I've been married. It was not a bad thing. I don't want him back but he was and is a good guy and I'm not left with lingering anger or bitterness. I don't have to get married again, but if the fellow wanted it, I'd do it with no qualms. I'd do the prenup to assure him that I'm not after his goodies (and he mine LOL) and then go from there. BTW I didn't agree to alimony or any other form of support. I'm a woman who manages my own financial life - and I think this is one of the big issues with men and marriage - they're afraid they'll be financially ruined if the marriages don't work out. So take the fiscal precautions and then marry. Or not. In the end, I think, it's more an emotional decision than a logical one. To me, it's about declaring to the world that you two are a team. It's sort of the functional equivalent of shouting one's love from the rooftops Link to post Share on other sites
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