Emotional affair???

[ladydesigner]

I still have to figure out a way to read the texts.

 

You can request all records including text from the phone company.

 

Dr. Fone will recover deleted messages.

 

I looked at my WH's iphone while he was asleep.

 

No passcodes allowed!

[Chica80]

I hope this turns out to be nothing.

 

He may be a good man a good guy but he is not perfect.

 

My AP, was the last person I or anyone would have suspected. He is good and kind. When he first came on to me I was sure that I was imagining things, and it was just me because surely this loving good man would never do this......

 

Hopefully you are wrong. Hopefully it's not what you're thinking and have just read too many LS stories.

[Try]

The bottom line, I feel his contact with this woman has been excessive, secretive, and inappropriate. The thing I'm after now is finding out how bad the contact is. chatty friends, EA, or PA. It will determine how big the dent in his head and wallet will be.

With her not being in his department and them having no business reason to be texting each other so much, with you knowing that there have been hundreds of text messages in only 2 months of billing records, and with him texting her more than you, he is in at least an emotional affair (EA) with this other woman. The only two main questions that remain are does he recognize that he is in an EA with her, and has it gone physical in any way. Many people in EA have rationalized things such that they do not acknowledge to themselves that they are cheating, and do not consider physical intimacy (such as hand holding, hugging each other, arms around each other, etc.) short of sex as cheating. Of course if it is a full blown physical affair (PA), then all bets are off.

[Mr. Lucky]

Hopefully it's not what you're thinking and have just read too many LS stories.

 

Probably true, BS's tend to see the world a certain way. We're the Joe McCarthy's of the relationship world...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Dancewithme]

Well, I got the VAR, and actually had a fit of conscience and didn't use it when I first got it. Then, I went back and looked at the phone/text records, and decided to reverse look up a few other numbers I found with frequency. Guess what I found? He's been chatting up a high school girlfriend who now lives in another state. The calls only happen when I'm not around.not a lot, just maybe one or Two a day. That's too much, because he hasn't mentioned this woman to me in years. We ran into her briefly in passing, several months back. Now I'm seeing her number every day!!!

 

I think my husband has lost his damned mind!!!

 

Mad Dancewithme is back, screw conscience!!!!! I cannot exist another day without some answers, I have lost 6 pounds already!!!!

 

Went to get my VAR and install it. Even though it was highly rated, apparently I got one that was defective. So, I sent off for another. It should be here by tomorrow, and Im putting it in the car ASAP. I've been on line to learn tricks on how to get into an iPhone without a password. I've found some promising ideas that actually work, now I have to bide my time to get a hold of his phone.

 

I'm disgusted at my self for my lapse, but I'm back on track.

 

Hopefully now I'll get the answers I need to have an effective confrontation.

[aileD]

If you ever get s hold of his phone, don't take the time to look through stuff. Take the time to enter your thumbprint into his phone, even if you only have the time to do that. It will help you in the future

 

Twice a day is too Much to talk to someone he never mentions to you.

 

I'm scared for you. I hope you are catching this early and he's just being stupid and nothing has happened.

[Mr. Lucky]

Hopefully now I'll get the answers I need to have an effective confrontation.

 

I'd guess you already have the answers in outline form, now just a question of filling in the blanks.

 

Your H is one of those men that needs validation from more than one woman and has successfully compartmentalized relationships into "you" and "them". Many guys have someone like this in their circle of friends.

 

Most likely some crazy-making days ahead. Stay strong and keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Dancewithme]

If you ever get s hold of his phone, don't take the time to look through stuff. Take the time to enter your thumbprint into his phone, even if you only have the time to do that. It will help you in the future

 

Twice a day is too Much to talk to someone he never mentions to you.

 

I'm scared for you. I hope you are catching this early and he's just being stupid and nothing has happened.

 

Would this still work if he has already saved his thumbprint in his phone already?

If the phone hack doesn't work, I will use the VAR recordings of the phone calls as reason for him to unlock his phone and hand it to me on the spot. If the VAR recordings reveal "smoking guns". I very seriously doubt if he will refuse to hand over the phone. How I proceed at that point will be determined by what I find on the VAR and cell phone.

 

I do think he is being stupid. He makes friends so easily, everyone he meets is a friend. Since I've been on LS, and have heard the horror stories of misplaced boundaries, I have talked to him about how easily boundaries can slip. I have had to point out to him some of the women that he considers friends or acquaintances were actually trying to woo him. He is almost naive in that regard. I think he knows I will disapprove of his frequent conversations, and hides them. I'm hoping that's all is going on.

 

If it's worse than I can handle, and I have to get out, I will be fine. We are both very highly educated, have savings , investments, and properties that have both ofour names on them. Even though he makes a lot more than Me, I do quite well. I will be more than OK financially. That is the least of my worries. My biggest concern is getting over the hurt of being dissappointed and deceived by my best friend

 

He travels a bit for business, but has not traveled to where the high school girl friend lives. I have access to all accounts, and statements, he never deals with that kind of stuff. It's just me and the accountant. So, it's easy for me to see where he goes, what he spends, etc. Thats why it was so easy for me to see his phone records, all of that stuff is in my name.

 

Of course, there is always the possibility of hidden transactions. This has shown me that you never really know people like you think you do.

[turnera]

Do you have some velcro so you can install the VAR under the driver's seat?

[BetrayedH]

Do you have some velcro so you can install the VAR under the driver's seat?

 

I've heard many times that placing the VAR under the driver's seat creates terrible recordings. Best recommendation I've heard is to velcro is under the steering column. No one looks under there. If it happens to have any lights on it (to show it is recording or whatever), cover them with tape so they don't illuminate at night.

 

More importantly, I urge the OP to STOP thinking about the confrontation. Do NOT demand to see his phone. He could have easily deleted his conversations and then you'll have done nothing but tip your hand. Leave him out of your investigations entirely. Investigate fully on your own until you feel that you have enough information to make an informed decision about staying or not. That is not an easy decision, even when you have all of the information.

 

He may very well decline to let you see his phone. Commonly, you'd be accused of being an insecure, paranoid, and crazy beoch with trust issues that is ruining the relationship. Then he will stomp out of the house, delete anything and everything he can find, and make a call to his OW about how cautious they need to be.

 

You know when you confront him? You don't. The best confrontation is done via divorce papers served by the court.

 

Use your head instead of your emotions. My $.02

[ladydesigner]

(((Dancewithme))) I'm sorry, I hate welcoming anyone to this club. The evidence does not sound very good

 

Keep posting if you need help, it is by far one of the worst things I have EVER gone through in my life. I won't ever forget it.

 

I placed my var in the seat pocket behind the seat! Could hear everything perfectly!

[Dancewithme]

I've heard many times that placing the VAR under the driver's seat creates terrible recordings. Best recommendation I've heard is to velcro is under the steering column. No one looks under there. If it happens to have any lights on it (to show it is recording or whatever), cover them with tape so they don't illuminate at night.

 

More importantly, I urge the OP to STOP thinking about the confrontation. Do NOT demand to see his phone. He could have easily deleted his conversations and then you'll have done nothing but tip your hand. Leave him out of your investigations entirely. Investigate fully on your own until you feel that you have enough information to make an informed decision about staying or not. That is not an easy decision, even when you have all of the information.

 

He may very well decline to let you see his phone. Commonly, you'd be accused of being an insecure, paranoid, and crazy beoch with trust issues that is ruining the relationship. Then he will stomp out of the house, delete anything and everything he can find, and make a call to his OW about how cautious they need to be.

 

You know when you confront him? You don't. The best confrontation is done via divorce papers served by the court.

 

Use your head instead of your emotions. My $.02

 

Don't worry, I should gave had a career on the stage. I've been acting my a$$ off, and will not confront until I have incriminating phone recordings and text messages in my hot little hands.

 

The VAR has not come yet. Hubby ( I can't call him WH yet) doesn't get the mail and packages, I always do that. Im not worried he may have found it.

 

I am being observant and fake. What a fun combination! Wish me luck!

[BetrayedH]

Don't worry, I should gave had a career on the stage. I've been acting my a$$ off, and will not confront until I have incriminating phone recordings and text messages in my hot little hands.

 

The VAR has not come yet. Hubby ( I can't call him WH yet) doesn't get the mail and packages, I always do that. Im not worried he may have found it.

 

I am being observant and fake. What a fun combination! Wish me luck!

 

I would just caution you that "incriminating" evidence is rarely the full picture. And you're going to want the full picture so you can make a truly informed decision. And waywards almost never provide you with the full picture. Much more commonly, they simply admit to what you already know (which will be what? A few inappropriate conversations?). He might even admit to one more thing that you don't know, just so you think, "Now I know everything."

 

I'm sorry that I sound like a lecture. You're doing better than many of us. Once I had incriminating evidence, I lasted a grand total of 3 days before I couldn't resist the temptation to confront. She cried, said how she was glad I finally knew, blah, blah, blah.

 

I wanted to believe her, of course. She spent 8 more months lying to do whatever damage control she could. Hell, who wouldn't? I tried to believe but really couldn't. And then months of hell went by where I tried to discern the truth.

 

You really need to think about what your REAL dealbreakers are. What if he just "tried" to make connections with other women (you know, because he felt neglected or whatever)? What if he made an emotional connection but never followed through physically (they just held hands, like 12 year olds)? What if he had sex but never really loved them?

 

I strongly encourage you to think of every possible scenario and what your FINAL response would be. I don't think you know. Hell, a lot of us here don't know and we've been thinking about it for years.

 

I just think you need to know the real and full truth before you can hope to make a decision. Right now you know he's hiding shady sh*t. So, will you trust ANYTHING that he says? Why would you? How would you verify it so you can trust him again.

 

Again, I'm sorry if I sound like I'm lecturing. These are just meant as legit questions. They're crazy hard to answer.

 

So, take your time. Get the facts. Be smart. Think ahead. Expect dishonesty. And look inward about what your boundaries are that are respectful to yourself.

 

Good luck.

[Mr. Lucky]

Expect dishonesty. And look inward about what your boundaries are that are respectful to yourself.

 

Good luck.

 

Also expect truth, but of the trickle variety. In the early stages, most WS will only confirm the things you already know.

 

It's like one of those painted Russian boxes - inside, another box. And another. And another...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Rubix Cubed]

I think you mentioned he had an Iphone, if so and he does back-ups you can get to it through his iTunes acct. if you have access.

[yepsurething]

Gather evidence but do not expose. You do not have a smoking gun. Agree with others, VAR under the car seat.

 

I found putting the recorder under the seat was way too loud and caused me huge frustration.

 

my best recording were when I put the recorder in the headrest of the drivers seat. there is a gap in the fabric and I slid it in there

 

I got my most important info by putting the recorder in my husbands computer bag. I cut a slit and hid it inside.

 

unfortunately he found it but I got a couple months of recording before he found out.

[ladydesigner]

I think you mentioned he had an Iphone, if so and he does back-ups you can get to it through his iTunes acct. if you have access.

 

^^ This is EXACTLY how I was able to break into and get most of my WH's deleted texts!

[deepinthewoods]

I'm really sorry you are going through this, it sounds really stressful. Another poster had posed the question of what will you do when you find out the truth, whether it is nothing at all (seems unlikely), an EA, or a PA.

 

I have to confess, I was involved in what could be called a EA, though I didn't realize it at the time. It started off as friendly chats about shared interests, and the occasional in person hangout at events. Nothing really went too much further, never physical, but my feelings developed for her more and more, and my relationship was really not very healthy, so I was more and more pushed to connect with someone who made me feel good. Anyways, I did eventually confess my feelings to the ow, as well as to my partner. I thought that because it had not progressed to the physical level, and had only touched on deeper levels of emotional connection, that it could be forgivable and that we could get through it as a couple. I never intended to leave my partner, but was so dissatisfied with the relationship (sexless and somewhat emotionally abusive), that this distraction was a welcome relief.

 

My question is, where do you draw the line between forgivable and not forgivable? My previous ex felt that even thinking about another person was cheating. I don't agree with that, and her jealousy and related issues drove us apart. My recent ex obviously felt I had gone too far, and though she was ok with thinking about others, she hasn't forgiven me for reaching out to this other person. I fully understand, and would be super pissed if it happened to me, though I had communicated my issues to her many times and asked her to work on our relationship.

 

There are lots of grey areas too, such as when does communication venture into inappropriate areas? In my situation, the vast majority of communications were fairly mundane or about interesting topics, not so much personal stuff. So I felt confident that I wasn't doing anything really wrong, as I keep in touch with lots of different people on the internet.

 

Anyways, I guess my advice to you is to really look at how much you value your partnership and what you would be willing to forgive, and how you would move forwards if you were to try to forgive. It does sound like there is some real secrecy happening, and I would say by the sound of it that it is much more involved that what I did. People overcome cheating and affairs, but it does suck all around. I know I hurt my ex and that it was emotional cheating, but I did believe in us and thought that we had something special enough to be able get through it. I am pretty disappointed that this was not the case for her.

 

I hope that you can find some answers soon, that it is not as bad as it could be, and that you find relief from all of this before too long. As a person who had been on the other side of the coin, it can be easy to justify our actions sometimes, and it doesn't mean that he wants to leave you or doesn't love you. He does need to come clean though, and you might be better off without him. Good luck.

[ladydesigner]

I'm really sorry you are going through this, it sounds really stressful. Another poster had posed the question of what will you do when you find out the truth, whether it is nothing at all (seems unlikely), an EA, or a PA.

 

I have to confess, I was involved in what could be called a EA, though I didn't realize it at the time. It started off as friendly chats about shared interests, and the occasional in person hangout at events. Nothing really went too much further, never physical, but my feelings developed for her more and more, and my relationship was really not very healthy, so I was more and more pushed to connect with someone who made me feel good. Anyways, I did eventually confess my feelings to the ow, as well as to my partner. I thought that because it had not progressed to the physical level, and had only touched on deeper levels of emotional connection, that it could be forgivable and that we could get through it as a couple. I never intended to leave my partner, but was so dissatisfied with the relationship (sexless and somewhat emotionally abusive), that this distraction was a welcome relief.

 

My question is, where do you draw the line between forgivable and not forgivable? My previous ex felt that even thinking about another person was cheating. I don't agree with that, and her jealousy and related issues drove us apart. My recent ex obviously felt I had gone too far, and though she was ok with thinking about others, she hasn't forgiven me for reaching out to this other person. I fully understand, and would be super pissed if it happened to me, though I had communicated my issues to her many times and asked her to work on our relationship.

 

There are lots of grey areas too, such as when does communication venture into inappropriate areas? In my situation, the vast majority of communications were fairly mundane or about interesting topics, not so much personal stuff. So I felt confident that I wasn't doing anything really wrong, as I keep in touch with lots of different people on the internet.

 

Anyways, I guess my advice to you is to really look at how much you value your partnership and what you would be willing to forgive, and how you would move forwards if you were to try to forgive. It does sound like there is some real secrecy happening, and I would say by the sound of it that it is much more involved that what I did. People overcome cheating and affairs, but it does suck all around. I know I hurt my ex and that it was emotional cheating, but I did believe in us and thought that we had something special enough to be able get through it. I am pretty disappointed that this was not the case for her.

 

I hope that you can find some answers soon, that it is not as bad as it could be, and that you find relief from all of this before too long. As a person who had been on the other side of the coin, it can be easy to justify our actions sometimes, and it doesn't mean that he wants to leave you or doesn't love you. He does need to come clean though, and you might be better off without him. Good luck.

 

 

t/j

For each person this 'forgiveness' varries. Also some believe in it and other's like myself don't really see a point in it. I actually chose to forgive myself for staying with my WH.

 

As far as relationship problems leading to an A... yep it happens all the time but doesn't make it the correct way to handle R issues. I would say having an EA or PA is a bad coping skill, like drinking or other escapes. The correct way of handling a R that is having issues is to directly address them with your partner and/or in counseling. There is always the choice to leave. Having an A is the easier way and a copout IMHO.

 

end t/j

[Dancewithme]

I'm really sorry you are going through this, it sounds really stressful. Another poster had posed the question of what will you do when you find out the truth, whether it is nothing at all (seems unlikely), an EA, or a PA.

 

I have to confess, I was involved in what could be called a EA, though I didn't realize it at the time. It started off as friendly chats about shared interests, and the occasional in person hangout at events. Nothing really went too much further, never physical, but my feelings developed for her more and more, and my relationship was really not very healthy, so I was more and more pushed to connect with someone who made me feel good. Anyways, I did eventually confess my feelings to the ow, as well as to my partner. I thought that because it had not progressed to the physical level, and had only touched on deeper levels of emotional connection, that it could be forgivable and that we could get through it as a couple. I never intended to leave my partner, but was so dissatisfied with the relationship (sexless and somewhat emotionally abusive), that this distraction was a welcome relief.

 

My question is, where do you draw the line between forgivable and not forgivable? My previous ex felt that even thinking about another person was cheating. I don't agree with that, and her jealousy and related issues drove us apart. My recent ex obviously felt I had gone too far, and though she was ok with thinking about others, she hasn't forgiven me for reaching out to this other person. I fully understand, and would be super pissed if it happened to me, though I had communicated my issues to her many times and asked her to work on our relationship.

 

There are lots of grey areas too, such as when does communication venture into inappropriate areas? In my situation, the vast majority of communications were fairly mundane or about interesting topics, not so much personal stuff. So I felt confident that I wasn't doing anything really wrong, as I keep in touch with lots of different people on the internet.

 

Anyways, I guess my advice to you is to really look at how much you value your partnership and what you would be willing to forgive, and how you would move forwards if you were to try to forgive. It does sound like there is some real secrecy happening, and I would say by the sound of it that it is much more involved that what I did. People overcome cheating and affairs, but it does suck all around. I know I hurt my ex and that it was emotional cheating, but I did believe in us and thought that we had something special enough to be able get through it. I am pretty disappointed that this was not the case for her.

 

I hope that you can find some answers soon, that it is not as bad as it could be, and that you find relief from all of this before too long. As a person who had been on the other side of the coin, it can be easy to justify our actions sometimes, and it doesn't mean that he wants to leave you or doesn't love you. He does need to come clean though, and you might be better off without him. Good luck.

 

What's been so difficult to me is hubby and I seem to be as affectionate and in love as always. Sure, there are rough moments, nothing unusual for a couple who have been married as long as we have. He seems quite content to hang out with me and do things together. We are always traveling, visiting friends, attending shows and sporting events together, and he always seems to have a good time. Everyone would always use us as the standard of how they want their marriage to be.

 

Which is why I never put the hammer down hard on him about his many friends and acquaintances. No interactions seemed inappropriate, but a couple of the female friends seemed like they would "go there" with him, if he just said the word. I would caution him about the vibe I would get from these women, warn him about boundaries, and how some could confuse friendliness with romantic interest, and encourage him to "drop" the friendship. Hubby would claim naïveté to the games of women, and drop the friends, no big deal. From what I have been able to determine, none of these offenders have resurfaced.

 

I would tell him of the stories I read here on LS, talk about the situations with my sister and other friends. I would talk of how people who spend a lot of time together through work, hobbies, etc, can develop attraction to each other. How one should be on the watch for questionable feelings, and work to prevent them, or nip them. I've even told him throughout our marriage that I will not tolerate infidelity.

 

The fact that we are pretty close, know most of what's going on in each others' lives, and still have "that spark" is what's making all of these calls and texts so confusing. The quantity of them, the fact that he does them when he is alone in his car, alone at home, or in his office, so confusing. I have gone back through records, and I can see increased frequency when I'm out of town, out late in the evening, occupied in another part of the house. I found one call when he was out of town that lasted over 3 hours, until 1am! From a man who usually turns in early!

 

So, that's why I'm hoping its a bad case of lack of boundaries, but all of the secrecy tells me something else. Their topics of conversation may be mundane. The secrecy, and volume is what makes it all inappropriate to me so far. It doesn't jive with how good our relationship feels otherwise.

 

As far as what I want, I don't know right now. I just want the truth, after I kill him and resurrect him;) then I'll see where things go. I want to stay married, but I will not tolerate cheating. Infatuation with no deep feelings I can work with. I'm realistic enough to know that infatuations are human.

 

I've already found a counselor, and ready to do the work, and intend for him to work, also. If he finds nothing wrong with the secret massive communications, and feels no need to fix anything, he's got to go. However, if he has disrespected my health with a PA, he's got to go. If there is an EA that he wants "more" with, he's got to go. On the other hand, we have so much history, and have built so much together, I think it is worth fighting for.

 

Of course, no one really knows what they want until the truth is staring you in the face. Hope my truth doesn't trickle. Anxiously awaiting my VAR, and a chance to hack his phone.

 

Thank you LSers for indulging my rants, there is really no one I feel I can talk to about this yet. I haven't told him about LS, so I doubt he would find my posts.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Dancewithme

[Just a Guy]

Hi Dance, I wish you all the very best going forward and truly hope nothing damning in your husband's posts and phone calls turn up. It would be tragic beyond all measure. Warm wishes.

[Dancewithme]

Well, it's time for an update, and some advice is needed.

 

My second VAR came, and I hid it in the car. Recordings were poor quality, and basically useless. Because of the type of car that he drives, and the fact that he has it professionally cleaned frequently, I was very limited in where I could hide it. I tried his brief bag, once again, poor quality, because of limitations in how to hide it. So I have no smoking gun.

 

I considered a PI, but since his job requires him to have private security in certain situations ( don't ask), I thought the PI could be exposed.

 

What I do have are phone records that go back a year. The number and duration of calls to high school girl friend are mind-boggling. ( why does my husband need to have secret 70- minute phone conversations? Why does he have to call high school girl friend or frat brother's baby sister up to 10 times a day? ) I can pin-point the day he started to call the ex on a regular basis. He apparently started communicating with baby sister longer than my phone records go.

 

The number, duration, and secretive nature of these calls tell of 2 emotional affairs at least, could be PAs, hard to tell.i can think of no other reason for this.

 

So, here's, where I need advice. I am ready to set up a lie detector test. I want to confront him with what I've found, and demand the unlocked phone on the spot, and explanation. At that point I will tell him that a lie detector test is scheduled, and that he will take it. A refusal will be an admission of guilt. I will tell him that I have scheduled marriage counseling, and see where things go.

 

Any other ideas, let me hear 'em.

 

This whole thing baffles me, because for the most part, things have been good between us. I'm completely blind-sided. Well, at least I can get back into my favorite dress again because of the weight I've lost.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Dancewithme

[BluesPower]

The question is, are you prepared to divorce?

 

If he refuses or fails, what will you do?

 

If he does not confess, then he will know you are on to him and go underground.

 

If you do not get to go through his phone when you lay the LD test on him he will delete everything.

 

Think it through.

 

Oh, and yes he is sleeping with one or both of them, don't doubt that for a second.

[Mr. Lucky]

Any other ideas, let me hear 'em.

 

Let's say you've caught him, whatever that means.

 

Once the dust settles, if he's willing to do the work, are you interested in recovering your marriage? In other words, would his infidelit(ies)y be a deal-breaker for you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[BetrayedH]

Skip the lie detector. The more you read and study, the more you'll discover how unreliable they are. Even if he fails the test, you'll be left wondering if the test was valid. He'll certainly say it wasn't.

 

Some people do manage to get a "parking lot confession" when they arrive at the testing place. It's frequently just a sample of the truth.

 

If I haven't mentioned it already, what worked for me was a GPS in her car. On the first download of the data, I found she'd been at a hotel from 10pm to midnight when she was supposed to be working. I then visited the hotel and requested a duplicate receipt, which they provided. I saw she earned points for her stay. I went to the hotel website and took a guess at her password. It worked. I discovered a dozen hotel stays going back six months. She later admitted to it being "about 30." I ultimately discovered 60-70 via a variety of hotels. Her affair was with her boss and they left work mid-day for "meetings."

 

I'm not saying that a GPS is a miracle solution. But if he's meeting up with women, you'll likely figure it out.

 

A PI is very hit or miss. You'll pay a few hundred on the off chance that he's doing something during those few hours.

 

If a VAR isn't going to work, I'd try the GPS next. Just my $.02

 

In the meantime, keep looking at what you can via the computer: phone/text records, financials, emails (inbox, sent, deleted, drafts, etc), internet history and search history. Hell, I found a bunch of stuff in my wife's contacts (mostly passwords for hotel websites).