Question for OWs re: BS contact

[elaine567]

Maybe, that does make sense. I never backed off though. I wouldn't have done the same thing though, maybe that's where I have a hard time. I get not everyone thinks like me and I'm not tooting my own horn but I don't think my views on decency and respect for someone else's marriage are to "out there"

 

But you adopted the moral high ground and that is great if the OW had bee a person who shared your views and bowed down to your superiority as the spouse.

Unfortunately those who decide to have affairs with MM do not accept the sanctity of marriage else they would not be having an affair in the first place. They either have a big ego and feel entitled to steal the husband, being so much of an improvement on the dowdy/boring/old/abusive wife, or they are persuaded by the husband that they are what he wants and the marriage is dead. Either way they feel their relationship trumps the marriage and so do not respect or care anything for the marriage.

[Got it]

Maybe, that does make sense. I never backed off though. I wouldn't have done the same thing though, maybe that's where I have a hard time. I get not everyone thinks like me and I'm not tooting my own horn but I don't think my views on decency and respect for someone else's marriage are to "out there"

 

Thanks for everyone's replies

 

In my eyes he didn't have a choice to make, you did. Allowing it to be his choice meant he had the decision making power. Why? That opened the door to get into a tug of war between the you and the OW with your husband as the prize. Is he really the prize here?

 

No. It is your decision to try and reconcile and your gift to him to try and live up to. If he waffles at all is that who you want to be married to? If he is not moving heaven and earth to beg your forgiveness and repair the marriage than he doesn't appreciate what he has and isn't worthy of it.

 

I know that taking the hard stand is hard but, and not sure if you have visited surviving infidelity but that may help, niceing your way through it isn't going to work. Her morality doesn't matter. She doesn't matter. She could have been one of a thousand. What matters is what is owed you. What your husband should be doing and what you may have to do. Drawing a line and walking out the door doesn't mean you have to divorce but it also means you are going to do right by you and aren't going to beg your way into keeping the marriage. He wants to fence sit. Knock his butt off of it. He doesn't get the luxury of being conflicted, confused, etc. He has been knowingly doing this for x amount of time. He isn't in a fog, unaware, or hypnotized. He had plenty of time to figure out his desires, direction and game plan. Just because he wasn't isn't now your baby to rock. He should be doing the heavy lifting and proactive relationship mending. Not you.

 

Just my two cents and I am sorry for your pain and suffering.

[ladydesigner]

Yes I did. I read texts and listened to VAR that were both incriminating.

 

It was awful and traumatic. Words you can never erase from your brain. It helped me tremendously because my WH lied until the proof was staring him in the face and then came the blameshifting.

 

Here are a few of the outrageous things said that I cannot erase:

 

"I want to f*ck you 2 times tonight and again in the morning" (my WH)

 

"I am going to ride you like a stallion" (MOW)

 

 

This from the VAR:

 

"Remember when we even f*cked in (my son's name) bed." He was 6 at the time btw so they f*cked on Cars themed blankets too. I hope it was a turn on for the both of them sick f*cks

[anika99]

I knew it was wrong of course, but I was working hard at compartmentalizing and trying not to think about her. Most of the guild I *did* feel was reserved towards my own husband Knowing that she was emotionally abusive to him (my own conclusion from his various respectful and offhand comments about her behavior that horrified me), and that she had had her own prolonged affair and hadn't done the work to restore their relationship afterward, certainly reduced my empathy somewhat.

I know nothing justifies it. But some marriages are more broken than others, and knowing that their marriage was already dead in the water certainly eased my guilt.

 

I'd like to think that if they had kids, I wouldn't have gotten involved. That seems like a line in the sand. But, two years ago I would have emphatically said the same thing about having a physical and emotional affair. So who really knows :/

 

I think the bolded is really the core of the matter. The MM will often spin stories of the BS to make her sound like a truly awful person who is the cause of all the marital woes and who drove her husband to cheat. Even if the MM doesn't engage in a lot of badmouthing the wife, the OW will take what little he does say and then fill in the blanks with her own assumptions. I think a lot of OW have no guilt or empathy for the BW because they have dehumanized her. I see a lot of describe the BW in very one dimensional terms where the BW's flaws are the focus and ridiculously exaggerated, like drawing a caricature, they will sum up the BW and the marriage in one or two simple sentences. They paint her as if she is incapable of honest emotion and pain and as if she is completely void of any admirable qualities at all. Once the BW is reduced to this lower form of life in the OW's mind then it is easy to continue in the affair without any empathy or guilt.

[wmacbride]

OP,

 

Knowing wat I know now, I would never recommend a bs contact the ow or om.

 

In all honesty, they likely won't care. while some may feel a tug at their consistence, it probably won't be enough to make them stop, unless they had no idea their ap was married.

 

In some cases, the ow or om actually gets off on contact with the bs. It makes them feel important and powerful, and trust me, you don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

 

I did read the emails between them, and while some fo it was very hurtful, there was nothing off the wall on his side. Hers? yes. There was plenty of cra@p. The whole A lasted only a few weeks, but the unwanted contact from her ( mostly to me and our children, not to him) lasted for years, the most recent being a few months ago.

[wmacbride]

Yes I did. I read texts and listened to VAR that were both incriminating.

 

It was awful and traumatic. Words you can never erase from your brain. It helped me tremendously because my WH lied until the proof was staring him in the face and then came the blameshifting.

 

Here are a few of the outrageous things said that I cannot erase:

 

"I want to f*ck you 2 times tonight and again in the morning" (my WH)

 

"I am going to ride you like a stallion" (MOW)

 

 

This from the VAR:

 

"Remember when we even f*cked in (my son's name) bed." He was 6 at the time btw so they f*cked on Cars themed blankets too. I hope it was a turn on for the both of them sick f*cks

 

that was extremely disgusting. what sort of people do that? frig around in a child's bed? excuse me while I go take a gravol, as i feel nauseated.

[wmacbride]

I suppose I can sort of understand how the dehumanizing of the bs can make it easier for an ow or om to rationalize the A, or some can justify it by saying that the M is not their responsibility, one thing I will never understand s how they can be in an A if there are children involved.

 

They are taking part in something that can be devastating to the children. How can that be rationalized?

[Birdies]

I think the bolded is really the core of the matter. The MM will often spin stories of the BS to make her sound like a truly awful person who is the cause of all the marital woes and who drove her husband to cheat. Even if the MM doesn't engage in a lot of badmouthing the wife, the OW will take what little he does say and then fill in the blanks with her own assumptions. I think a lot of OW have no guilt or empathy for the BW because they have dehumanized her. I see a lot of describe the BW in very one dimensional terms where the BW's flaws are the focus and ridiculously exaggerated, like drawing a caricature, they will sum up the BW and the marriage in one or two simple sentences. They paint her as if she is incapable of honest emotion and pain and as if she is completely void of any admirable qualities at all. Once the BW is reduced to this lower form of life in the OW's mind then it is easy to continue in the affair without any empathy or guilt.

 

I both completely agree with what you're saying, and respectfully maintain that this situation was different. I certainly never dehumanized her and I'm very aware of her pain and suffering through this process. In fact, I know that her sense of her marriage falling apart (well before I entered the picture) and the hurt resulting from that, was what ramped up some of the emotionally abusive behavior.

 

The only way that my guilt / empathy was eased was knowing that I wasn't breaking up a good, healthy marriage. I did feel tremendous guilt and empathy for her as a person. But mainly, I just had enough on my plate that I tried, and mainly succeeded, in not thinking about her.

 

I know that sounds callous, and it was, and I'm not trying to justify it. Just trying to honestly answer the question for the sake of the OP.

[heartwhole]

I didn't contact the OW. I think if I had wanted to give her the feedback that her actions caused a lot of damage and weren't OK, that would have been an OK thing for me to do. But even more than I wanted to stick up for myself and mark my turf, I wanted to make sure I wasn't manipulating an unwilling man into being with me. If I had to scare off the mistress to keep my marriage, then I didn't want my marriage anyway. I wasn't willing to stay married unless I knew that the OW's actions and existence didn't matter going forward -- she could show up naked on our front door, or pen a thousand love letters, or vow never to give up on social media (she did do that one), but none of that should change my husband's course of action.

[Midwestmissy]

so maybe some of these "couples" fall in love, but what about the ones that don't? My wh never loved the m/cow and I never saw evidence of her falling in love with him. Her texts were sexually desperate and reeked of fake self esteem. So did his. So they buoyed each other up by pretending to be super supportive and in touch with each other's feelings etc. A lot of noxious gas based on what they each thought they were supposed to say. she only contacted me once to tell me that there was nothing inappropriate about their relationship, which I guess was her way of telling him that she was the guarder of his secrets. I never responded to that or to offer to meet with her and her husband and talk it out. She wanted to go the extra mile for sure. wtf. I kicked him out and he sobbed like a baby - it was like you could see the bubble he was in pop and the mask slipped right off. It took a bit longer for the OW judging by the sexual propositioning that continued until she was fired. We are all around 50 for goodness sake. She was welcome to him. He wouldn't go. He became a company punch line when it all became public. Not sexy anymore when everyone knows.

 

I can't ever see a reason for me to have contacted her, there's no way I would have ever been told any truths from her. There were lies flying all over the place, I just wanted to be out the line of fire. He did extricate his head from his backside eventually and views what happened as the biggest mistake of his life. It was just a 5-6 month vending machine type of affair - he inserted something into a slot, and she spit out flattery - I wouldn't have been able to deal with a love affair.

[aileD]

Did you read their texts, emails, voicemails to the AP?

 

How did it make you feel? What were some outrageous things that were said?

 

This was a separate unrelated post, apparently the mods felt the need to merge it. It wasn't my intent to add it here.

[aileD]

Because I didn't see my marriage his responsibility just like I didn't see his marriage as my responsibility.

 

I have always looked at it as the two involved should be the protectors of the marriage and it is no one else's responsibility to manage or maintain. Just like in financial infidelity it isn't the credit card company's responsibility or fault for someone's debt that is involving their spouse and making sure all are notified and on the same page. It is their obligation to do right by their spouse because they are legally and financially tied to them. But no one holds the third party responsible.

 

Just like I don't think the BS is responsible for the WS' decision, the OP is not responsible either.

 

If my husband cheated. While the OW is not going to be my BFF they are not and would not be my focus. They are a non entity and are not worth my time. My focus and energy would be towards my husband who I am invested in.

 

So let's put it a different way. You're driving in a car with MM and your both run down the WS. Do you get out and help? Or do you say "it's his wife it's not really my responsibility to make sure she's ok"

 

Because that's what an affair feels like to the WS who is most times unsuspecting. Like being hit by a truck

 

The thing that's hard for me is that OW know their involvement are hurting the BS. Once they know that, it's then INTENTIONAL.

 

You might not be driving the car, but you're helping to steer it as it obliterates the life of the WS. You feel NO responsibility?

 

(You meaning OW no one in Particular here)

[jenkins95]

who's pain is more important?

 

I believe that the bs pain is "more important" and deserves far more sympathy than that of the ow or mm. Simply because the bs is a completely innocent party in it.

 

That said, I don't doubt that the person of the ow and (sometimes) mm can equal that of the bs. But they knew what they were getting into and what risk they were taking. The bs is usually oblivious until d-day

[aileD]

In my eyes he didn't have a choice to make, you did. Allowing it to be his choice meant he had the decision making power. Why? That opened the door to get into a tug of war between the you and the OW with your husband as the prize. Is he really the prize here?

 

No. It is your decision to try and reconcile and your gift to him to try and live up to. If he waffles at all is that who you want to be married to? If he is not moving heaven and earth to beg your forgiveness and repair the marriage than he doesn't appreciate what he has and isn't worthy of it.

 

I know that taking the hard stand is hard but, and not sure if you have visited surviving infidelity but that may help, niceing your way through it isn't going to work. Her morality doesn't matter. She doesn't matter. She could have been one of a thousand. What matters is what is owed you. What your husband should be doing and what you may have to do. Drawing a line and walking out the door doesn't mean you have to divorce but it also means you are going to do right by you and aren't going to beg your way into keeping the marriage. He wants to fence sit. Knock his butt off of it. He doesn't get the luxury of being conflicted, confused, etc. He has been knowingly doing this for x amount of time. He isn't in a fog, unaware, or hypnotized. He had plenty of time to figure out his desires, direction and game plan. Just because he wasn't isn't now your baby to rock. He should be doing the heavy lifting and proactive relationship mending. Not you.

 

Just my two cents and I am sorry for your pain and suffering.

 

Thanks and we are past this and he's doing the work now

[aileD]

Cocorico,

 

Agree to disagree, maybe we were misundersnsing each other, I'm letting it go

 

Good luck to you.

[cocorico]

 

You might not be driving the car, but you're helping to steer it as it obliterates the life of the WS.

 

I don't know what country you're in, but here it's illegal to interfere when someone else is driving (unless you're a driving instructor averting an accident, or the driver becomes incapacitated due to a heart attack, or such).

 

You feel NO responsibility?

 

 

Nope. Passengers in moving vehicles are not responsible for the actions of drivers - unless they interfered with the driving and caused an accident.

[OneLov]

It comes down to accountability vs. responsibility. The other woman is responsible for 50% of the affair; however, she is not accountable to the marriage.

 

I am not justifying affairs-- But why would you expect that someone would care more about someone else's marriage than the person who is actually in the marriage? We are not talking about morality or ideals; we're talking about human nature, including the ugly truth of all its hypocrisy.

 

What's that saying? "If you do not respect yourself, no one will." Now that's not right. Just because you do not respect yourself does not mean other people should not respect you. But it's a reality of life.

 

So could we expand that to say, "If you do not respect your marriage, no one will?" Again, it's not right. But it's life. That is just the way our animal brains work.

[eye of the storm]

So let's put it a different way. You're driving in a car with MM and your both run down the WS. Do you get out and help? Or do you say "it's his wife it's not really my responsibility to make sure she's ok"

 

Because that's what an affair feels like to the WS who is most times unsuspecting. Like being hit by a truck

 

The thing that's hard for me is that OW know their involvement are hurting the BS. Once they know that, it's then INTENTIONAL.

 

You might not be driving the car, but you're helping to steer it as it obliterates the life of the WS. You feel NO responsibility?

 

(You meaning OW no one in Particular here)

 

You seem to be laboring under the impression that an A is an intentional way to hurt the BS. It isn't. It is a side effect. And just because it feels like you have been hit by a truck, and I agree that it truly does, it is not the same as intentionally hitting a person with your vehicle.

 

The OW/OM is focused on the AP, not the BS. The A occurs in a bubble and the BS is outside that tiny world that they have created inside it.

 

And yes, some OW/OM do feel guilty and responsible but usually by then the A has taken on a life of its own.

 

It is normal and natural to be angry at the OW your WS brought into your M. But I get the impression you want OWs to admit we are horrible people and we aren't. Most of us just made mistakes. Some didn't know. Some were leaving their marriage and just started new relationships a bit faster than others. And yes, there is a group of people that actively hunt for MM/MW, why I don't know. maybe a fetish. But even those people would not be successful in their hunt if a MM/MW wasn't willing to step outside of their M.

 

I hope things work out for you.

[elaine567]

And yes, there is a group of people that actively hunt for MM/MW, why I don't know. maybe a fetish. But even those people would not be successful in their hunt if a MM/MW wasn't willing to step outside of their M.

 

 

I think some that actively hunt for MM/MW do so because they don't actually want to get involved in a relationship, they just want NSA sex, and what is safer or more cast-iron than a married person who has no intention of leaving their spouse. Probably safer from an STD POV too.

It is never going to go anywhere and that is what they want.

[aileD]

I don't know what country you're in, but here it's illegal to interfere when someone else is driving (unless you're a driving instructor averting an accident, or the driver becomes incapacitated due to a heart attack, or such).

 

 

 

Nope. Passengers in moving vehicles are not responsible for the actions of drivers - unless they interfered with the driving and caused an accident.

 

You totally didn't understand my analogy, but that's ok. The fully the laws of the country I love in don't apply to analogies

[wmacbride]

 

Passengers in moving vehicles are not responsible for the actions of drivers - unless they interfered with the driving and caused an accident.

 

 

You are aware you just supported the view you say you don;t agree with.

 

.

[aileD]

 

Passengers in moving vehicles are not responsible for the actions of drivers - unless they interfered with the driving and caused an accident.

 

You are aware you just supported the view you say you don;t agree with.

 

.

 

Touché! You're right. I call interference! Lol!

 

 

You seem to be laboring under the impression that an A is an intentional way to hurt the BS. It isn't. It is a side effect. And just because it feels like you have been hit by a truck, and I agree that it truly does, it is not the same as intentionally hitting a person with your vehicle.

 

Yes it is intentional. OW knows MM is married, therefore they have the CHOICE to say no. It's not a side effect. It's an intentional decision to interfere with someone else's marriage vows. (Free pass to the OW that had no idea MM was M).

 

Ow can choose not to get "caught up" in the MM. You can fall in love but NOT act on it.

 

As I've said a bunch of times, I know MM responsibility should be to the M first, so yes I'm not discounting that . Just trying to see OW view of why they CHOOSE to contribute to the pain of another woman and her children --especially if some day she desires to be a step parent to those children.

 

From the answers here it seems like they just choose to tuck the OP and kids off outside the bubble. Thanks everyone for replying

Edited September 13, 2016 by aileD

[MJJean]

Yes it is intentional. OW knows MM is married, therefore they have the CHOICE to say no. It's not a side effect. It's an intentional decision to interfere with someone else's marriage vows.

 

Choosing to have an affair with a MM is intentional. Causing the BS emotional pain really is more of a side effect. Generally, the BS isn't much of a factor in OW thinking. OW is too focused on MM and too jacked up on happy hormones to think about the BW, especially at the beginning.

 

Besides, think about what MM typically say to OW. Things designed to make her think she won't be hurting anyone. Things like how horrible and neglectful their wives are, how they don't have sex or any intimacy anymore, how there is no laughter or affection, how she's always ignoring him for kids and/or career, and on and on. By the time MM is done, OW thinks that BW couldn't be hurt by the affair because clearly BW doesn't love MM, anyway.

[cocorico]

You are aware you just supported the view you say you don;t agree with.

 

.

 

Not even remotely.

 

The MM's journey with the OW as passenger is a separate journey from any the MM happens to undertake with BS as passenger (or, any MM takes as passenger with BS driving). Mostly, they're not even n the same vehicle. (Stereotypically it's a station wagon with the BS, and a sports car with the OW. Or sometimes a 60s "passion wagon" parked next to the beach...)

 

But either way, if the BS is crossing the road, so as to get run ver, she's clearly *not in the car* and not part of the journey. She is, per that analogy, a passing feature along the roadside at best, or an obstacle (stepping out in front of the moving car) to try to derail that journey at worst. She's simply not material, any more than a pot hole in the road.

[elaine567]

Choosing to have an affair with a MM is intentional. Causing the BS emotional pain really is more of a side effect. Generally, the BS isn't much of a factor in OW thinking. OW is too focused on MM and too jacked up on happy hormones to think about the BW, especially at the beginning.

 

Besides, think about what MM typically say to OW. Things designed to make her think she won't be hurting anyone. Things like how horrible and neglectful their wives are, how they don't have sex or any intimacy anymore, how there is no laughter or affection, how she's always ignoring him for kids and/or career, and on and on. By the time MM is done, OW thinks that BW couldn't be hurt by the affair because clearly BW doesn't love MM, anyway.

 

Ok but a lot of these OW are intelligent, successful and competitive type women, I refuse to believe that they are all in the "affair fog" and that the BS does not enter their thoughts at all. Of course she does.

 

At the start when he is lovebombing, maybe there is little thought of the wife as he is so obviously "besotted" and will obviously choose her (the OW) and leave, but as time passes and the wife is still there, ever present, like the spectre at the feast, then of course the OW wants her gone.

The OW is in a competition and the more the BS hurts the better the OW likes it, as it means she is winning. She may deny that, even to herself, but it is often the truth.

 

The more he chooses the OW over his wife, even if he is cruel and unfair to his wife, the more chance the OW has of winning him over, so she eggs him on or is silently complicit.

Not all OW want the MM as in "want him to leave his wife and be with me" but all want his attention and if it means he misses his wife's birthday, or he is out late every night "working" and never seeing his kids, because he is really seeing her, then so much the better.

So I don't really buy this "Oh I never even considered the BS" of course they do and they often revel in any distress caused too if they were to be completely honest. Yes, there is a degree of compartmentalisation, but there is also a competition going on here, the ego needs to be satisfied and you do not tend to win by going lalalala with your fingers in your ears or by feeling sorry for your opponent. Dehumanisation as previously mentioned by others is the name of the game.

 

The "affair fog" not only gives an excuse for cheating but it also gives them an excuse to behave badly, and take no responsibility for their actions concerning hurting the BS and the kids.

"It is not my fault, I was in a fog."

Truth is, both the BS and the OW are fighting for the attention of the same man, the BS often does not even know she is in a fight, but the OW is always very aware of that fight, to suggest otherwise makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

(As an addendum - the BS once aware of the OWs existence, is also capable of dehumanising the OW and playing dirty and revelling in the OW's distress, so it is not just a OW thing, more a woman/human thing when placed in the unnatural position of fighting over the same man.)