Question for OWs re: BS contact

[wmacbride]

Sorry but I find this ludicrous.

 

Of course the OW is "inserted" in the marriage. Do you seriously see the OW as completely disconnected with the marriage? This guy is married. He's MARRIED! There is no "other relationship at the same time" when you take vows of marriage. Should the BS just say "oh he's in a separate relationship, has nothing to do with me"?

 

Honestly would you say that if your husband (or hypothetical husband if you don't have one) had an affair? That it was completely separate from you?

 

This is especially true with the ow who requires the narrative of the bs being some sort of shrewish, wicked with of the west in order to rationalize why the mm ( the ws) is cheating.

 

In this type of situation, the story goes is that the ws is monogamous by nature, and he is only cheating because the evil shrew of a wife forced him into it. But for her, he'd never, ever consider cheating. Therefore, his behavior is his wife's fault.

 

You can spot this happening when the ow claims the marriage and his wife is irrelevant, yet the same ow knows everything there is to know about the bs and will continually, even years later, be able to list flaw the bs had.

 

This is ample evidence the bs os anything but irrelevant.

[Arieswoman]

In this type of situation, the story goes is that the ws is monogamous by nature, and he is only cheating because the evil shrew of a wife forced him into it. But for her, he'd never, ever consider cheating. Therefore, his behavior is his wife's fault.

 

You can spot this happening when the ow claims the marriage and his wife is irrelevant, yet the same ow knows everything there is to know about the bs and will continually, even years later, be able to list flaw the bs had.

 

^^^ this can backfire on the OW in spectacular form.

 

If the OW buys the narrative that the WS is cheating because of the BS's flaws then she'd better make d@mn sure that she doesn't have those flaws

 

My exH told OW that, I'd got fat, refused sex, refused to clean the house, was a nag and a bad-tempered shrew.

 

(I was 5'3" tall and 126lbs at the time. I stopped having such frequent sex because I was sick of him not dealing with his premature ejeculation and his aversion to foreplay, etc etc)

 

He married the OW who now spends all the time cleaning, starving herself, picking up after him and 2 ungrateful kids and posts whiney crap on FB about how "no-one appreciated her".

[Got it]

Yes his ex wife contacted me, no she never asked me to stop. But he had left at the point that she contacted me and it was, oddly, more a message about her attributes and herself. There was actually little about him in it. There were no questions, nothing for me to respond to.

 

At the point of his wife knowing I would not have continued in the affair. That was the rubber meeting the road if/when it were to happen and a decision needed to be made. (We started on the premise we were an exit affair for each of us so divorcing was always on the table).

[wmacbride]

Yes his ex wife contacted me, no she never asked me to stop. But he had left at the point that she contacted me and it was, oddly, more a message about her attributes and herself. There was actually little about him in it. There were no questions, nothing for me to respond to.

 

At the point of his wife knowing I would not have continued in the affair. That was the rubber meeting the road if/when it were to happen and a decision needed to be made. (We started on the premise we were an exit affair for each of us so divorcing was always on the table).

 

If you don't mind me saying so, in your situation, neither of you needed the marriage or bs to justify your actions. You were both unhappy, but didn't blame that on your spouse. It was more the situation of being married to someone wo wasn't right for you.( from that i can tell). Neither of you felt a need to cast your bs as some sort of horrible person. At least, i;ve never seen you do so here.

 

 

It wasn't " my bh is a horrible rotten person and he forced me to cheat", you have always presented it more as "I was unhappy in my marriage, and I made the decision to divorce". You also don't need your husband's bw to constantly blame for his actions or behavior, and it doesn't sound as if either one of you continually brings up the actions of your first spouses.

 

 

I hope that made sense.

[Got it]

If you don't mind me saying so, in your situation, neither of you needed the marriage or bs to justify your actions. You were both unhappy, but didn't blame that on your spouse. It was more the situation of being married to someone wo wasn't right for you.( from that i can tell). Neither of you felt a need to cast your bs as some sort of horrible person. At least, i;ve never seen you do so here.

 

 

It wasn't " my bh is a horrible rotten person and he forced me to cheat", you have always presented it more as "I was unhappy in my marriage, and I made the decision to divorce". You also don't need your husband's bw to constantly blame for his actions or behavior, and it doesn't sound as if either one of you continually brings up the actions of your first spouses.

 

 

I hope that made sense.

 

I agree, and hope to express the ownership of my/his decisions/actions of our own and not because of someone else. But I was answering more from the OP's questions, etc. and since I actually got a communication wanted to speak from that.

 

We are all cordial now and actually hang out with my ex husband and his wife/kids.

[cocorico]

 

Honestly would you say that if your husband (or hypothetical husband if you don't have one) had an affair? That it was completely separate from you?

 

Of course I would! Unless it was someone with whom I had a pre-existing R, or with whom I later developed an R, fictional-OW's R with my H would be entirely separate from his M with me.

 

I really don't understand how anyone could see it otherwise.

[cocorico]

This is especially true with the ow who requires the narrative of the bs being some sort of shrewish, wicked with of the west in order to rationalize why the mm ( the ws) is cheating.

 

In this type of situation, the story goes is that the ws is monogamous by nature, and he is only cheating because the evil shrew of a wife forced him into it. But for her, he'd never, ever consider cheating. Therefore, his behavior is his wife's fault.

 

You can spot this happening when the ow claims the marriage and his wife is irrelevant, yet the same ow knows everything there is to know about the bs and will continually, even years later, be able to list flaw the bs had.

 

This is ample evidence the bs os anything but irrelevant.

 

I can't comment on situations I know nothing about, but I do find the narrative of "blame" interesting. Why does anything have to be anyone's "fault", and why does anyone have to be "to blame"? Sometimes, as in my H's case, it was a "perfect storm" of factors, without any of which I'm pretty certain no infidelity would have happened. Ascribing "blame" gives far too much power to any individual component and far too little agency to the actors.

 

But, to each their own. I don't see infidelity as being something that warrants "fault" or "blame", anyway. I see it as a situation in which people - constrained and/or enabled by their circumstances, make choices. "Fault" and "blame" imply judgment and I'm not in that game.

[aileD]

I can't comment on situations I know nothing about, but I do find the narrative of "blame" interesting. Why does anything have to be anyone's "fault", and why does anyone have to be "to blame"? Sometimes, as in my H's case, it was a "perfect storm" of factors, without any of which I'm pretty certain no infidelity would have happened. Ascribing "blame" gives far too much power to any individual component and far too little agency to the actors.

 

But, to each their own. I don't see infidelity as being something that warrants "fault" or "blame", anyway. I see it as a situation in which people - constrained and/or enabled by their circumstances, make choices. "Fault" and "blame" imply judgment and I'm not in that game.

 

Has it happened to you?

 

See,I always thought I infidelity was a dealbreaker for me. I always felt strongly if you can cheat on me it means you don't love me so what's the use in staying together? That I wouldn't be hurt, I would just be like "well...he didn't love me so good riddance"

 

Till it happened to me 23 years, two kids and a life into my relationship.

 

It wasn't so black and white then.

 

Patrick Henry once said "I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided and that is the lamp of experience"

 

Me and H have been talking about that a lot while trying to find a therapist. We don't want someone guiding us who hasn't been through the messiness because they don't have real honest clear understanding of the struggles.

 

So I have trouble with your idealistic and strange view of affairs and find it unlikely you would feel the same way if your husband of 23 years cheated on you. I'm more likely to listen to those who have been though this hell.

[cocorico]

 

So I have trouble with your idealistic and strange view of affairs and find it unlikely you would feel the same way if your husband of 23 years cheated on you. I'm more likely to listen to those who have been though this hell.

 

I don't recall asking you to "listen to me". I was replying to a thread about the OW's "relationship" or otherwise to the BS.

 

I haven't ever been M for 23 years, though my H had (closer to 30). So I've no idea why you addressed your rather odd response to me.

[aileD]

well since I'm the OP I felt it was relevant to respond.

[eye of the storm]

If my exMM's BS were to call me, I would tell her to talk to him. I wasn't his first A, I probably won't be his last. They seem to have a pattern that they are content with. I am not the issue in their marriage.

 

For your own peace of mind, I would gently suggest you focus on you and him and put the OW out of your mind. She did not cause this and she cannot fix it. Even if you call her and she bows out, if your H wants to cheat he will find another.

 

He needs to decide if he can/will recommit to your marriage, and you need to decide if you can/are willing to move past this. I hope you find peace.

[aileD]

We are moving on, I just know that I could never get involved with someone who was married or in a relationship no matter what excuses they gave me and I just wonder what is wrong with people that they don't give s crap about the wife or kids they have a hand in hurting?

 

Where is the conscience? And yeah, I know.. It's HiS marriage, he has the ultimate responsibility. I get that, I am not fluffing that aside but this posit is about the OWs

 

Where is your morality? Where's your values?

[eye of the storm]

Why an OW/OM gets involved is not a question that can truly be answered. To many variables. But I would say very few if any start an A thinking "yea, I get to hurt a BS and some kids".

 

In my case, I knew he was a serial cheater, I was in a bad place, they had been geographically separated for years...so I never thought about her.

 

Some OWs believe the lies that the WS is on his way out of their marriage. Some don't know they are in an A until they have fallen in love. Some feel that if a WS wants to step out it has nothing to do with them. Some just get in over their heads. So many more reasons.

 

You are not going to find a reason that makes you feel better. You are hurt. I'm sorry.

[MuddyFootprints]

At some point in the moving on process you will have to accept that not everyone walks your moral ground or shares your values.

 

In my case, we connected as victims, both of us demonizing our spouses.

Edited September 13, 2016 by MuddyFootprints

[Quiet Storms]

I really don't understand how anyone could see it otherwise.

 

Most people don't until or unless they experience it themselves. I sure didn't and from reading on here most people don't. Hope you don't find yourself in that position someday but there are no guarantees in life for anyone.

 

I don't recall asking you to "listen to me". I was replying to a thread about the OW's "relationship" or otherwise to the BS.

 

I haven't ever been M for 23 years, though my H had (closer to 30). So I've no idea why you addressed your rather odd response to me.

 

You're kidding right? You wonder why she listened to your reply or addressed her response to your reply post? It's her thread!

[Giggle]

When I went through my husband cheating and leaving me, I was just able to see how broken our marriage had become and how he let it happen. I didn't confront her. But I didn't want someone who so clearly didn't want to be with me. I actually refused to reconcile because he wasn't really choosing me, he would have been pining for her and the intense passion they had. I was devastated that he was throwing away our life, but I couldn't fault him for following his heart. I had always wondered how I would react if I had met someone I felt such chemistry with. I loved him enough to want him to get to have that.

 

On the other side of the stick, the BS did contact me. But her words were along the lines of how she was going to make him lose everything and reveal to my family and friends. She was nasty. I didn't respond. I feel bad for the kids that have the awful tension in the house and have to hear their mom rant and rave. Things which have nothing to do with me.

 

I though am in no way taking him away from her. He's staying. However he and I had been going through the same thing when we met. My husband had to stay living with me for a year before we could financially untangle enough to separate. He told me they were getting divorced. That didn't happen. We're mostly just good friends. I wish she would be open to being poly.

[Ahurtgirl]

Because it's hard to walk away from someone you fell deeply in love with. Just like you fell in love with your husband, he pursued her the same way he pursued you in the beginning of your relationship. He told her he loved her and adored her too. He promised to find a way for both of them to be happy. She wasn't being heartless and not thinking of the wife or his kids. She more than likely felt compassion towards them and wanted to find a way for everyone involved to find some common ground because in all reality, they all loved that one same person.

 

I don't think it is a matter of morals and values. Trust me, I am a strong Christian and knew it was wrong, but the amount of love my xAP and I shared was so intense (and not just the intimacy, but mind, body, soul connection) that even when I would think of his wife and kids, and I would say to him that this isn't right and we need to stop, he would assure me he loved me more and wanted me in his life. I tried many times to stop the relationship and so did he at times, but it was like something bigger than us kept bringing us back together until the final end came, which also ended so abruptly, that I feel it was again something bigger than all of us saying it was time to stop. I question it myself, how could he and I have done that and why... why did he come into my life, and why did it start and end when it did, etc.

 

I was never they type that would have thought about having an affair and when I would hear of stories about people having them, I would think they had some messed up ideas on life, until it happened to me. It was wrong and sinful but all things happen for a reason. Strange enough, in my case, his wife had been in an affair herself many years earlier, which I never knew about until the end of our affair, so maybe it was karma, but why I got tangled up in the mess is beyond me. I simply fell in love with someone who was telling me he was going to leave his marriage at some point to be with me and so on.

 

I am surprised you have to worry about his AP once you knew. Most men cut ties with their AP as soon as the wife gets involved. The wife usually demands he cut all contact or else she will walk out on the marriage.

[aileD]

Hurt girl, that's the most unbiased honest response in this thread, thank you.

 

Hubby is home now, but at the time he wasnt sure if he wanted to stay in the marriage so he was playing both sides trying to figure out where he wanted to land.

 

I was a little bit of a doormat, I admit. But I wanted my marriage and my husband and although I did "demand"he stop seeing her, I didn't have the strength to peace out when he didn't.

 

We (me and AP)both knew that he had a choice to make and we both knew that he didn't really know what he was going to do. That's why, when I confronted her with what I felt was a rational request "he doesn't know what he's going to do, can you back off for awhile and let us figure out our marriage alone and if we are going to end it , we can end it honestly with no outside influences"...I was disgusted that she didn't have the decency to back off. Yes, my husband could have...LikeI said I'm not discounting his responsibility. But I just wonder from an OW standpoint.

 

When my kids found out, I told her...l"this is hurting them, back off and let us figure our **** out, he's there he's here he's obviously cake eating, but now my kids know who you are and they're hurting, please just let us figure out what WE are going to do with OUR marriage."

 

He response was to go to him and tell him "what should I say to her, what do you want me to say?"

 

I don't know, maybe I have higher expectations for morality, values, respect than some people do. and she was only 20 so she's a dumb kid anyway, who already had other married men so what did I really expect anyway.

 

Just tying to understand if all

Edited September 13, 2016 by aileD

[aileD]

Did you read their texts, emails, voicemails to the AP?

 

How did it make you feel? What were some outrageous things that were said?

[elaine567]

I am surprised you have to worry about his AP once you knew. Most men cut ties with their AP as soon as the wife gets involved. The wife usually demands he cut all contact or else she will walk out on the marriage.

 

Its called a false or a fake reconciliation it is actually not uncommon.

 

There’s a devastating situation that we run into quite frequently when talking with other couples. In fact, some consider it even more devastating than the initial affair discovery. OK, here’s the scenario (based on a true case story, btw)…You’ve discovered the affair and your spouse almost immediately breaks down and begs for forgiveness and promises that he/she will never do it again. They’re remorseful, open, honest, transparent, doting and really working hard on the relationship. Their actions are really supporting their words and you’re really feeling positive about the future and you’ve certainly reattached emotionally and physically with your spouse.

Then, for some reason, there seems to be a little backsliding. Your spouse is starting to act similarly to the way they did while they were in the affair. Kind of short tempered. Doesn’t want to talk about stuff. Thinks that maybe you’d be better off without them.

Your gut is telling you that something is up. You approach your spouse about your fears and you are greeted with anger, gaslighting and the proverbial “You’re never going to get over this, are you?”

Then it hits. It can hit a couple of different ways – either by accident or by confession – but when it hits, the devastation is immeasurable. The affair has either restarted, never ended, or believe it or not…another affair started with someone totally different this time.

False Reconciliation ? Perhaps More Devastating than D-day

 

[BuddyX]

Yes.

I don't regret it. They were proof that my "sweet little wife" was capable of straying.

Edited September 13, 2016 by BuddyX
Grammar

[elaine567]

We (me and AP)both knew that he had a choice to make and we both knew that he didn't really know what he was going to do. That's why, when I confronted her with what I felt was a rational request "he doesn't know what he's going to do, can you back off for awhile and let us figure out our marriage alone and if we are going to end it , we can end it honestly with no outside influences"...I was disgusted that she didn't have the decency to back off. Yes, my husband could have...Like I said I'm not discounting his responsibility. But I just wonder from an OW standpoint.

 

When my kids found out, I told her...l"this is hurting them, back off and let us figure our **** out, he's there he's here he's obviously cake eating, but now my kids know who you are and they're hurting, please just let us figure out what WE are going to do with OUR marriage."

 

He response was to go to him and tell him "what should I say to her, what do you want me to say?"

 

I don't know, maybe I have higher expectations for morality, values, respect than some people do. and she was only 20 so she's a dumb kid anyway, who already had other married men so what did I really expect anyway.

 

Just tying to understand if all

 

By telling her he was vacillating and he didn't know which way to turn and he didn't know what was doing, you gave her hope. Of course she wasn't going to back off, why would she?

You were like the enemy army general saying "My troops are a bit tired and we are running low in ammunition can you just back off and give us a break till we manage to regroup. "

The other side's general - "Er...no, why on earth would I do that? I feel a victory coming on."

 

She wanted him, you wanted him. You just showed your weakness there.

[Birdies]

I knew it was wrong of course, but I was working hard at compartmentalizing and trying not to think about her. Most of the guild I *did* feel was reserved towards my own husband Knowing that she was emotionally abusive to him (my own conclusion from his various respectful and offhand comments about her behavior that horrified me), and that she had had her own prolonged affair and hadn't done the work to restore their relationship afterward, certainly reduced my empathy somewhat.

 

I know nothing justifies it. But some marriages are more broken than others, and knowing that their marriage was already dead in the water certainly eased my guilt.

 

I'd like to think that if they had kids, I wouldn't have gotten involved. That seems like a line in the sand. But, two years ago I would have emphatically said the same thing about having a physical and emotional affair. So who really knows :/

[aileD]

By telling her he was vacillating and he didn't know which way to turn and he didn't know what was doing, you gave her hope. Of course she wasn't going to back off, why would she?

You were like the enemy army general saying "My troops are a bit tired and we are running low in ammunition can you just back off and give us a break till we manage to regroup. "

The other side's general - "Er...no, why on earth would I do that? I feel a victory coming on."

 

She wanted him, you wanted him. You just showed your weakness there.

 

 

Maybe, that does make sense. I never backed off though. I wouldn't have done the same thing though, maybe that's where I have a hard time. I get not everyone thinks like me and I'm not tooting my own horn but I don't think my views on decency and respect for someone else's marriage are to "out there"

 

Thanks for everyone's replies

[Got it]

We are moving on, I just know that I could never get involved with someone who was married or in a relationship no matter what excuses they gave me and I just wonder what is wrong with people that they don't give s crap about the wife or kids they have a hand in hurting?

 

Where is the conscience? And yeah, I know.. It's HiS marriage, he has the ultimate responsibility. I get that, I am not fluffing that aside but this posit is about the OWs

 

Where is your morality? Where's your values?

 

Because I didn't see my marriage his responsibility just like I didn't see his marriage as my responsibility.

 

I have always looked at it as the two involved should be the protectors of the marriage and it is no one else's responsibility to manage or maintain. Just like in financial infidelity it isn't the credit card company's responsibility or fault for someone's debt that is involving their spouse and making sure all are notified and on the same page. It is their obligation to do right by their spouse because they are legally and financially tied to them. But no one holds the third party responsible.

 

Just like I don't think the BS is responsible for the WS' decision, the OP is not responsible either.

 

If my husband cheated. While the OW is not going to be my BFF they are not and would not be my focus. They are a non entity and are not worth my time. My focus and energy would be towards my husband who I am invested in.