Question for OWs re: BS contact

[imperfectangel]

I can honestly say up until January when I saw a picture of mm with his w I did not think about her. I had dehumanised her for so long I almost forgot she existed.

 

I don't understand why you are focusing so much time and energy into your wh's ow.

 

It isn't healthy. You need to focus on your future and your marriage.

 

The bs being hurt by the affair IS a side effect. Unless you've been involved in a affair you will never understand the affair fog. It is all consuming. All areas of your life are affected.

 

You will never get a answer to this as with affairs there are just too many variables

[Wade Lamare]

I think that I sort of "get", though I am not condoning, the "all's fair in love and war" concept and that "stealing" away a woman's husband, especially if that marriage was not very long, is perhaps just sticking to that concept.

I also kind of "get" that we only get one life and we need to seek happiness where we can too.

 

BUT I just do not "get" why any woman with a heart, would want to disrupt a family, by getting involved with a man who is the father of kids.

I do not accept the ducking of any responsibility displayed sometimes by some who place any "blame" solely on the shoulders of the MM.

Yes, they are his kids, but the OW IS being complicit in hurting them, so that does not get a pass in my book.

Breaking up marriages hurts and damages kids, I am not sure how some can just ignore that fact.

 

Don't want to sound as though I'm supporting OW but in many instances, not all obviously, they are fed an absolute bunch of bull by a MM who really just wants to get in their knickers.

Sometimes these women are so desperate for love, attention and touch they will swallow any crappy story they are fed.

 

"My wife and I are only together for convenience, we are separated but living in the same house."

"My wife is abusive, we never have sex, she is insane"

"We're all but divorced, once we get divorced we'll be together now where's the bed?" etc. etc.

You see it all the time, once the fecal matter makes contact with the rotary air moving object the OW is shocked to find that this 'witch' of a woman is just someone like her who has had her heart ripped out by a selfish tosser.

 

Of course there are also the OW who really couldn't give a crap about the BW and it's just about fun with a MM. No strings attached fun sex without the humdrum normalities of daily life.

 

I don't know what the percentage of one to the other is?

[imperfectangel]

It isn't a ow disrupting your family it's your husband.

 

If your husband knew how to keep it in his pants you wouldn't have this issue

[aileD]

It isn't a ow disrupting your family it's your husband.

 

If your husband knew how to keep it in his pants you wouldn't have this issue

 

I completely agree there, but that's not what this thread was about.

 

But on the contrary, men wouldn't be able to have affairs if there weren't women who were willing to open their legs for married men

[Timshel]

I completely agree there, but that's not what this thread was about.

 

But on the contrary, men wouldn't be able to have affairs if there weren't women who were willing to open their legs for married men

 

AileD, sadly, this has always been true and will remain true despite your husband's latest transgression.

 

Whether or not an OW should feel a moral obligation to walk away from a married man is subjective. What is not subjective is a betrayed spouse's marriage/relationship and commitment to a reconciliation.

 

You have committed to reconciliation. Your husband must be equal or more so....the OW is a mute point if he is NC, except for your husband's motivation for having an affair and whether or not he is able to abstain from doing so in the future.

 

Your husband's OW was a young woman, 20? One could argue that he was the manipulator....she a victim out of sheer naivete'.

 

I hope that you and your husband are working together to amend and strengthen your marriage and parenting. You are very brave to take him back, or rather have humored him through the affair and are now willing to work through it.

 

I sincerely wish you and your children well.

[imperfectangel]

I completely agree there, but that's not what this thread was about.

 

But on the contrary, men wouldn't be able to have affairs if there weren't women who were willing to open their legs for married men

 

Agreed but I'd rather be wit a man that doesn't cheat because he prefers to be faithful than one that doesn't cheat because he can't find a ow

[heartwhole]

I do understand why this question bothers you, but knowing more of your backstory (the young age of your OW, how much you interacted with her, how all three of you were trading information back and forth) paints a clearer picture of why she didn't pull back out of respect or compassion for you.

 

I came to LS because I had the same gnawing questions about the OW. In my case, she lives halfway around the world, and other than some odd oversharing she does on Twitter and other social media, I will never know her or really much about her. And I found it very hard to understand why she would do the things she did.

 

Through LS I've connected with a few OW who have helped me gain insight in what might be her mindset, and that has been helpful. I remember discussing with one of them about how I always think 15 steps ahead for every decision I make, so why couldn't the OW see what was coming down the road? (Of course, same goes for my WH.) And she said, well, she's more of a "take a leap and figure out how you're going to land mid-air" kind of person. And someone else helped me figure out how the OW lives in a place where she's really aged out of the dating pool and every settles down 10 years younger than she is, so she probably does feel desperate and unsure about the future. This helped me humanize her and stop painting in generalizations.

 

I see it both ways too. I see a lot of OW write things like, "But how could a BW stay with a man after a betrayal like that when she knows he loves someone else? I would never do that. I'd let him go." But both that mindset and the question you posed place the OW and BW in competition over the doofus cheater, as though the cheater is just some helpless man who will live happily ever after with whichever woman outlasts the other. I object to this contrived scenario. I think the only way to win that game is not to play. I made a conscious choice not to give the OW any power over my relationship by shaming her or appealing to her sense of goodness or whatnot. Of course, I am angered and perplexed by her actions, but the world is full of people who make choices I wouldn't make, and I can only worry about those I choose to let into my life.

[UpwardForward]

One can attempt to secure all the openings of their home. (Is this even possible?).

 

But the thief (or invader) who may enter - is still accountable.

[grassisorisntgreener]

I was a MW, involved with a MM (he wasn't technically married but they were together for 20+ years so I'm using that term). His BS found out about me. She contacted me via Facebook for 3.5 years. Usually once a month, once every couple of months, to see if I had been in contact with her husband. I'd always say no, and she'd call me a liar, and then she'd threaten to tell my husband what I had done. This went on for over 3 and a half years.

 

I left my husband last year, so for the last year she had really ramped up her messages, worried that I was going to reach out to her husband.

 

I'm not sure what ended up happening with them, if they are together or not, but in July, she did tell my husband. Even though we weren't together, it exploded. He wrote the more horrible things about me all over Facebook. On his page, on my page, on my families pages. He texted all of our mutual friends. It was a nightmare.

 

BUT..now I don't have to worry about her anymore. She doesn't reach out. I think she lived all that time thinking I got off scott free, and now she feels that I "got mine"...

 

Now, I don't have to lie anymore. I don't have to be a stupid scared coward anymore.

 

Not having an affair could have gotten me out of SO MUCH PAIN. Never again.

[imperfectangel]

One can attempt to secure all the openings of their home. (Is this even possible?).

 

But the thief (or invader) who may enter - is still accountable.

 

You cannot compare a WS to a tv or iPad that gets stolen.

 

No one is made to have an affair. Particularly an older man with a 20 year old. He probably thoigh all his bdays and Christmases had come at once

[Got it]

So let's put it a different way. You're driving in a car with MM and your both run down the WS. Do you get out and help? Or do you say "it's his wife it's not really my responsibility to make sure she's ok"

 

Because that's what an affair feels like to the WS who is most times unsuspecting. Like being hit by a truck

 

The thing that's hard for me is that OW know their involvement are hurting the BS. Once they know that, it's then INTENTIONAL.

 

You might not be driving the car, but you're helping to steer it as it obliterates the life of the WS. You feel NO responsibility?

 

(You meaning OW no one in Particular here)

 

You are right and that was the struggle for me as on a human level I don't seek out or desire to hurt someone. That is something that I continue to struggle with, we both do, as that is not our nature.

 

Now, I know on my husband's side, his "justification" for lessening the expected impact of the affair had been his ex wife's previous affair and general emotional connection with him. He truly did not think that she would care though I warned him her not leaving during her affair (which included what he suspected to have also been an abortion) does not mean that she will be unresponsive on his. And that wasn't the case. She was less caring about him having the affair on an emotional level, i.e. expressions of love for him, but more so about divorcing, him owing her, etc.

 

I have not made it a practice to be in affair, and he was truly the exception as I did love him and do love him. But having your love hurting someone else is very hard. And there has been no mental resolution to it so true apologies are hard. Ultimately, very simplistically I did put myself/emotions over someone else. So how does one apologies, even when they are sorry for the pain they caused, when they also deeply loved the person?

 

I will say I have apologized to the kids, for the pain I caused them, and we have discussed the affair, etc.

 

I really don't think there is any way to ultimately see it then to know that the potential pain of the other person is collateral damage to the benefits that the affair is giving to the parties involved. Usually the idea of the other person not finding out and so not knowing/not caring, is what is gambled on. And affair is self-centric.

[Got it]

I completely agree there, but that's not what this thread was about.

 

But on the contrary, men wouldn't be able to have affairs if there weren't women who were willing to open their legs for married men

 

So we control women's sexuality to keep men in line? Shoot, he can still choose another man, an animal (a little outrageous I know), etc.

 

If someone wants to cheat they will find a way. Full stop. There is no way you can control all the outside variables to keep them on the straight and narrow.

 

And why is it women's responsibility to control men's actions? I am sorry but are you responsible at all for his affair? Take your argument and flip it. Like some will say, well if you did x, y, and z he wouldn't have strayed? Or whatever. And it is all a bunch of bull. You couldn't control his actions and neither can/could all of woman kind. Just because there is temptation does not mean there is an action. He is in control of his own faculties and he, and only he, is responsible for cheating.

 

Would you blame the stripper that performed on the night he arrived? Should they screen at the door for marital status? Of course not, if there is a demand there is a supply. The responsibility lies with the demanders.

[aileD]

One can attempt to secure all the openings of their home. (Is this even possible?).

 

But the thief (or invader) who may enter - is still accountable.

 

I love analogies! Haha. So even if H opens the door, if the invader comes in and steals something, they're still a thief lol

 

 

Not looking to start trouble I just like analogies and had to keep it going

[aileD]

So we control women's sexuality to keep men in line? Shoot, he can still choose another man, an animal (a little outrageous I know), etc.

 

If someone wants to cheat they will find a way. Full stop. There is no way you can control all the outside variables to keep them on the straight and narrow.

 

And why is it women's responsibility to control men's actions? I am sorry but are you responsible at all for his affair? Take your argument and flip it. Like some will say, well if you did x, y, and z he wouldn't have strayed? Or whatever. And it is all a bunch of bull. You couldn't control his actions and neither can/could all of woman kind. Just because there is temptation does not mean there is an action. He is in control of his own faculties and he, and only he, is responsible for cheating.

 

Would you blame the stripper that performed on the night he arrived? Should they screen at the door for marital status? Of course not, if there is a demand there is a supply. The responsibility lies with the demanders.

 

I actually agree with you, my comment was just in contrary to the original post, it goes both ways. There wouldn't be mistresses if married men weren't willing to cheat and married men wouldn't cheat if there weren't women willing to be mistresses.

Edited September 14, 2016 by aileD

[Whoknew30]

I contacted the OW, purely by accident (curious to see who he passed out talking to at 4am)I called the last number & she answered.

 

First I would NEVER say back off bc you've now handed power over to her...she now knows you can't keep you H away from her & that screams bigger chance. It also is telling her, the kids are the only real thin keeping you married...none of this is anything you want the OW to know.

 

All I did was ask OW questions & she answered them honestly. I never thought of her as some heartless, home wrecker...I figured she fell in love with him no differently than I did. He choose to cut contact with her, he got no pressure from me. I'm not my H babysitter nor his mother...if I have to go running around telling women to stay away, why would I want to stay in a marriage like that, how is that healthy in a marriage or for kids to see. I grew up watching that & I HATED 10 times more than knowing what my dad was doing. I understand more but many times I lost respect for my mom, I loved/love her with all my heart but it's hard to watch the woman that raised you not have respect for herself & continue to stay...though it worked out bc I'd never be that way & have taught my daughter differently.

 

If the kids know, they may be hurt but I think for them to see fighting & desperation coming from both parents is way worse than them seeing their patents spilt up a bad marriage & if one is calling the OW saying stay away bc their H can't...that's an extremely unhealthy bad marriage. Spouses can screw up & make mistakes & marriages can get past it but there's a difference between your spouse really wanting to "fix it" & feeling "made" to. Behavior changes when someone changes it on their own...never when made to.

[cocorico]

I completely agree there, but that's not what this thread was about.

 

But on the contrary, men wouldn't be able to have affairs if there weren't women who were willing to open their legs for married men

 

OTC, they'd find some other outlet - strippers, sex workers, porn, maybe even a bit of man-on-man action, who knows. Instead of banning every possible outlet for a man (or woman) who wants to stray, why not address the problem at source?

[cocorico]

One can attempt to secure all the openings of their home. (Is this even possible?).

 

But the thief (or invader) who may enter - is still accountable.

 

So we're back to the "spouse-as-property"

 

What if they didn't invade, but were invited? What if hey didn't steal, but were given?

[imperfectangel]

I really really hate it when people say someone "stole" the WS.

 

No one can be stolen. These are grown men capable of making their own decisions and unfortunately for the BS he decided to have sex with another woman. No one made him. It was his decision

[UpwardForward]

So we're back to the "spouse-as-property"

 

What if they didn't invade, but were invited? What if hey didn't steal, but were given?

 

Obviously not invited or 'given' by the BS. It is their marriage, spouse, home, too.

[imperfectangel]

Obviously not invited or 'given' by the BS. It is their marriage, spouse, home, too.

 

The mm/WS owns his own body/decisions!

 

It is not for the bs/w to decide what the mm can do with his own body

[UpwardForward]

The mm/WS owns his own body/decisions!

 

It is not for the bs/w to decide what the mm can do with his own body

 

Then why be Married? The marital contract comes with expectations. If there are problems, they either work them out - or divorce. (not an outsider's business, either way).

[imperfectangel]

Then why be Married? The marital contract comes with expectations. If there are problems, they either work them out - or divorce. (not an outsider's business, either way).

 

I agree. But more than once in this thread mm/WS is almost referred to as property. He isn't. His actions and choices are his alone.

 

I agree why be married and have affairs? I don't understand it but many mm/WS seem entitled.

[MJJean]

Ok but a lot of these OW are intelligent, successful and competitive type women, I refuse to believe that they are all in the "affair fog" and that the BS does not enter their thoughts at all. Of course she does.

 

At the start when he is lovebombing, maybe there is little thought of the wife as he is so obviously "besotted" and will obviously choose her (the OW) and leave, but as time passes and the wife is still there, ever present, like the spectre at the feast, then of course the OW wants her gone.

The OW is in a competition and the more the BS hurts the better the OW likes it, as it means she is winning. She may deny that, even to herself, but it is often the truth.

 

The more he chooses the OW over his wife, even if he is cruel and unfair to his wife, the more chance the OW has of winning him over, so she eggs him on or is silently complicit.

Not all OW want the MM as in "want him to leave his wife and be with me" but all want his attention and if it means he misses his wife's birthday, or he is out late every night "working" and never seeing his kids, because he is really seeing her, then so much the better.

So I don't really buy this "Oh I never even considered the BS" of course they do and they often revel in any distress caused too if they were to be completely honest. Yes, there is a degree of compartmentalisation, but there is also a competition going on here, the ego needs to be satisfied and you do not tend to win by going lalalala with your fingers in your ears or by feeling sorry for your opponent. Dehumanisation as previously mentioned by others is the name of the game.

 

The "affair fog" not only gives an excuse for cheating but it also gives them an excuse to behave badly, and take no responsibility for their actions concerning hurting the BS and the kids.

"It is not my fault, I was in a fog."

Truth is, both the BS and the OW are fighting for the attention of the same man, the BS often does not even know she is in a fight, but the OW is always very aware of that fight, to suggest otherwise makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

(As an addendum - the BS once aware of the OWs existence, is also capable of dehumanising the OW and playing dirty and revelling in the OW's distress, so it is not just a OW thing, more a woman/human thing when placed in the unnatural position of fighting over the same man.)

 

I wasn't using the fog as an excuse. I was explaining where the OW focus may be. In new relationships, the participants usually get a bit of tunnel vision. They focus oneach other and everything else becomes ignorable background noise.

 

As for competition, that really depends. Not all OW want their MM to leave his wife and run off into the sunset with her. A decent percentage are simply enjoying a FWB arrangement and don't want the bother of having a man around more often or the restrictions of a relationship.

 

The basic idea being the BS won't be hurt because she will never know of the affair as the affair will eventually end and the marriage will continue on it's expected trajectory with no one the wiser.

[Red123]

I really really hate it when people say someone "stole" the WS.

 

No one can be stolen. These are grown men capable of making their own decisions and unfortunately for the BS he decided to have sex with another woman. No one made him. It was his decision

 

No one stole my H, he chose his actions. He chose the affair and he chose to leave it and asked to reconcile. She didn't make him do anything, yes she was manipulative but she couldn't have manipulated him if he didn't go in the first place. He also chose to come back. I left him, so he was open to have anything with her he wanted. All his choices.

[MJJean]

One can attempt to secure all the openings of their home. (Is this even possible?).

 

But the thief (or invader) who may enter - is still accountable.

 

A and B, a married couple, share a home. A invites C into the house, but B objects. A then gives C a gift from the home, which B also objects to. Legally, C did not tresspass as C was invited onto the property by a resident and did not steal anything as the gift was freely given by it's owner.