He is still lying to his wife in counseling

[Done2016]

Thanks. I think maybe I need to wait until my next counseling session as I getting a mix of do it or do not do it. I want to make sure I have thought this all through to make the best decision I can.

 

And Yes-I have stopped all communication with him.

[aileD]

She wants to contact his wife because she has been lied to and is angry. I have the same situation. I was also lied to about the state of the marriage. He admitted he was in counseling to give his wife false security. I also want to contact her. Why not. These guys destroy our lives. Why not destroy theirs? Why not burn it all down?

 

Then do something to destroy HIS life. Pop his tires, key his car, embarrass him at work.

 

 

It's not your place to ruin the lives of his wife and children too. They did nothing to you.

[aileD]

OP I've read your posts. Talk in therapy about how somewhere subconsciously You might secretly like the drama. I'm not accusing you of being s drama queen, but sometimes there's a cycle or a pattern ingrained in us from stuff that happened when we were younger that causes us to take on certain roles ....you seem to have a few that I've talked about in therapy about as well. And that's the need to control the situation, the outcome ..,to be a "manager" is what my therapist calls it. Also, there is a victim role that comes in too. If you out him, then you are the victim and it serves to manage how people view the situation.

 

The affair is already over. There's no need to bring it back up with anyone. Just let it go.

 

If you are asked about it, certainly don't lie, but you don't need to create a situation where it causes a huge drama fest for everyone.

[jenkins95]

Since he's having problems with staying no contact, why don't you help him stay no contact? I wouldnt worry about contacting his wife, worry about you. Cut all communications with him. He's a cake eater.

 

^^^^

 

This right here - built a massive stone wall between you and him.

 

Complete, total and permanent NC. If, by any chance he gets round the stone wall, ignore him completely, and make the wall even stronger.

 

Good luck Done2016!

[stillafool]

She wants to contact his wife because she has been lied to and is angry. I have the same situation. I was also lied to about the state of the marriage. He admitted he was in counseling to give his wife false security. I also want to contact her. Why not. These guys destroy our lives. Why not destroy theirs? Why not burn it all down?

 

Unless the guy was married and you didn't know then you are at fault. Unless he is divorced and you can verify this you are at fault. If you knowingly get involved with a man who is still married you have no one to blame but yourself. So stop blaming the MM and look in the mirror.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Then do something to destroy HIS life. Pop his tires, key his car, embarrass him at work.

 

 

It's not your place to ruin the lives of his wife and children too. They did nothing to you.

 

I wrote that in a place of great anger. No, you are right, it is not my place to ruin their lives. The only thing I can do to him is be fabulous and ignore him, forcing him to keep the NC in our meetings, which I know ruins his good time there as he enjoys talking to me. Other than that, I would never do anything to his personal property. There is really nothing else I can do to him.

[jenkins95]

These guys destroy our lives.

 

Yes, and you allowed them to, were aware that your actions were hurting other people who you didn't even know and entered into a relationship that you 100% knew would lead to pain to someone - very likely you. Own your part.

 

Why not destroy theirs? Why not burn it all down?

 

Why cause even more pain than has already been caused? I guarantee you that the MM has not got off scot-free and will be hurting in one way or another - perhaps in ways you don't expect. Unless he is a certified psychopath, he'll be suffering in some way, and even if he is a psychopath, he will still be paranoid and anxious about his whole world potentially being blown apart. I am not defending them at all (I was one too). We are (or were) complete POS - he deserves no sympathy, but don't think he has walked away, forgotten it and is living happily ever after.

 

You have already meddled in his marriage once. My advice is to step back, go 100% strict NC and never give the POS the time of day again. Whether he has told his wife or not should not be your concern and it feels a bit rich suddenly taking a moral stance when this was not in evidence during the A.

 

Another reason not to take revenge is that revenge tends to lead to more revenge, and at each stage the stakes get higher. Right now the ball is in your court - he knows that you could blow up his world any time you want, and this I am certain will cause him stress and will keep him looking over his shoulder.

 

But say you do blow his (and his family's) world to pieces. What then? You may feel some satisfaction for a while, but that will wear off eventually. And now the ball will be in his court. He may have lost his family, his home, his job, his friends - everything. He will have nothing to lose and he will be majorly p*ssed. He can plan whatever counter revenge on you that he wants in the knowledge that he no longer has anything you can hurt. Now it will be you looking over your shoulder.

 

Have you ever seen the Welsh film 'Twin Town'? Excellent and highly recommended. It is not about infidelity, but it's central theme is about revenge and counter revenge and how things very quickly amplify and get out of control. Please give it a watch if you ever get the chance.

 

Sorry to be harsh guys. I genuinely care about you and don't want to see yet more hurt and destruction.

 

Own you part in it, walk away, leave him to his mess and get on with your life. Never spare the POS a minute of your time, thought or energy again. Learn from this and move on.

 

I wish you all the best! Keep posting. J

Edited September 14, 2016 by jenkins95

[MidnightBlue1980]

Yes, and you allowed them to, were aware that your actions were hurting other people who you didn't even know and entered into a relationship that you 100% knew would lead to pain to someone - very likely you. Own your part.

 

 

 

Why cause even more pain than has already been caused? I guarantee you that the MM has not got off scot-free and will be hurting in one way or another - perhaps in ways you don't expect. Unless he is a certified psychopath, he'll be suffering in some way, and even if he is a psychopath, he will still be paranoid and anxious about his whole world potentially being blown apart. I am not defending them at all (I was one too). We are (or were) complete POS - he deserves no sympathy, but don't think he has walked away, forgotten it and is living happily ever after.

 

You have already meddled in his marriage once. My advice is to step back, go 100% strict NC and never give the POS the time of day again. Whether he has told his wife or not should not be your concern and it feels a bit rich suddenly taking a moral stance when this was not in evidence during the A.

 

Another reason not to take revenge is that revenge tends to lead to more revenge, and at each stage the stakes get higher. Right now the ball is in your court - he knows that you could blow up his world any time you want, and this I am certain will cause him stress and will keep him looking over his shoulder.

 

But say you do blow his (and his family's) world to pieces. What then? You may feel some satisfaction for a while, but that will wear off eventually. And now the ball will be in his court. He may have lost his family, his home, his job, his friends - everything. He will have nothing to lose and he will be majorly p*ssed. He can plan whatever counter revenge on you that he wants in the knowledge that he no longer has anything you can hurt. Now it will be you looking over your shoulder.

 

Have you ever seen the Welsh film 'Twin Town'? Excellent and highly recommended. It is not about infidelity, but it's central theme is about revenge and counter revenge and how things very quickly amplify and get out of control. Please give it a watch if you ever get the chance.

 

Sorry to be harsh guys. It genuinely care about you and don't want to see yet more hurt and destruction.

 

Own you part in it, walk away, leave him to his mess and get on with your life. Never spare the POS a minute of your time, thought or energy again. Learn from this and move on.

 

I wish you all the best! Keep posting. J

 

I actually do not think he is hurting at all but you and Allie are correct that his wife and children do not deserve to have their world's blown apart by me. And actually he is a master manipulator so that probably would not even happen, I'd just end up looking crazy and yes, he is unpredictable in what he would do next. He definitely has a vengeful streak and would try to make me pay. He could do a lot of damage.

 

I do own my part in the A. I was just so upset yesterday because he was following me around, trying to talk to me, when he has told me he lies to his W about not speaking to me. I have expressed to him that the communication is bad for me and I thought a reasonable person would know not to keep on twisting the knife. I did feel better, sending the NC text and he did then back way off.

 

But I just saw the pictures and became unraveled. It's like he has no conscience, he can do whatever he wants to anyone he wants and he gets away with it, gets everything he wants. I went crazy on LS and sent a few crazy emails to my guy friend (who is used to my 2am rants) but I was good and no one else is the wiser.

 

I did not contact him or anyone IRL, other than my one friend.

[jenkins95]

I actually do not think he is hurting at all but you and Allie are correct that his wife and children do not deserve to have their world's blown apart by me. And actually he is a master manipulator so that probably would not even happen, I'd just end up looking crazy and yes, he is unpredictable in what he would do next. He definitely has a vengeful streak and would try to make me pay. He could do a lot of damage.

 

I do own my part in the A. I was just so upset yesterday because he was following me around, trying to talk to me, when he has told me he lies to his W about not speaking to me. I have expressed to him that the communication is bad for me and I thought a reasonable person would know not to keep on twisting the knife. I did feel better, sending the NC text and he did then back way off.

 

But I just saw the pictures and became unraveled. It's like he has no conscience, he can do whatever he wants to anyone he wants and he gets away with it, gets everything he wants. I went crazy on LS and sent a few crazy emails to my guy friend (who is used to my 2am rants) but I was good and no one else is the wiser.

 

I did not contact him or anyone IRL, other than my one friend.

 

Midnight....

 

Come here ((((big hug))))

 

I feel you could really use one now. I could too to be honest - lot of 1 year anniversary triggers flying around at the moment!

 

I won't labour the point any more, but even if he is not hurting, he is surely very anxious and paranoid and cr**ing himself that you may still blow his world to bits?

 

At least you have seen his true colours. I am in no place to morally judge people after my own A, but he does seem like a particularly selfish, entitled, inconsiderate POS, with a catalogue of character flaws. You wouldn't really want to end up with him would you? Imagine how he may treat you in the future when the "honeymoon period" is over? Could you ever truly trust him after what you've seen?

 

You seem so nice, you post beautifully and you have helped me a lot. I soooo wish you happiness with your own H and lovely family - once you sort your head out. Even if your own M can't survive, you are lovely and you deserve so much better than him. Just wash that man right out of your hair Midnight (and others). Yes - if only it was that easy!

 

Keep posting. You are amongst friends here. Sorry if I came across as harsh in my previous post. I just don't want to see yet more pain and devastation - it's everywhere all over this forum.

[wmacbride]

If you are going to tell her, then do so in a way that she can verify.

 

If you do so anonymously, she might not believe it or may just think you're some kind of a crank trying to stir up trouble.

 

If you are going to spill the beans, I would suggest you send her a message that reads something like:

 

"Dear ( her name)

i am sorry to have to tell you this, but I have been involved in an emotional affair with your husband. I have ended it, and I am very sorry to have played a part in hurting you. I have cut off all methods of contact with him, and any further contact from him is not wanted.

 

Again, i do apologize for my role in all of this. .

( your name)"

 

The note is brief, informative accepts responsibility and also lets her know that you are no longer interested in hearing from her spouse. Further, it is accountable without placing the whole affair on your shoulders.

 

If you want to take it a step further, you can create a web based email account ( eg.-gmail) just for this purpose, and let her know that if she has any questions, she can send them there and you will do your best to answer them. That way, you can give her the information she wants, and if she starts getting too intense, you can easily scrap the account.

[jenkins95]

((((Hope)))), sorry if I appear to be directing my answers exclusively to Midnight. I am not, it is just that I know her from other threads. I am talking in general to heartbroken OWs, from my experience as an xMM.

 

I feel ashamed when I read these OW posts knowing that I likely caused another woman the pain that you are suffering. It helps me a little bit contributing to OW threads as I can't reach out to the one OW that I hurt myself.

 

In your case, it seems that you made every effort to block him but he still persists which must be very hurtful and unwelcome.

 

Block him fiercely, he must surely eventually get the message.

 

If you do expose, prepare yourself for possible comeback. She may want nothing to do do with you, she may want every last detail, she may even want a fight. Prepare yourself for any eventuality. I personally advise against it, but general opinion is pretty divided on this one.

 

I wish you all the best!

Edited September 14, 2016 by jenkins95

[eye of the storm]

I am not normally a tell the wife person. But in the case where you have told him to stop, you have blocked him and he is still attempting to contact you...Go for it. Contact the wife.

 

As far as telling the OP to just stop and the MM will stop, she has. He hasn't. If an MP wants to cheat, they are going to cheat. This will just encourage him to find a different AP.

 

Accosting him at work, slashing tires, keying cars are all things that can get you in trouble with the law. Don't do it.

 

You are not destroying the BS and any kids, the WS is doing that.

 

A simple email/text/phone call saying simply "please ask your H to stop contacting me. I have asked but he will not listen"

[MidnightBlue1980]

Midnight....

 

Come here ((((big hug))))

 

I feel you could really use one now. I could too to be honest - lot of 1 year anniversary triggers flying around at the moment!

 

I won't labour the point any more, but even if he is not hurting, he is surely very anxious and paranoid and cr**ing himself that you may still blow his world to bits?

 

At least you have seen his true colours. I am in no place to morally judge people after my own A, but he does seem like a particularly selfish, entitled, inconsiderate POS, with a catalogue of character flaws. You wouldn't really want to end up with him would you? Imagine how he may treat you in the future when the "honeymoon period" is over? Could you ever truly trust him after what you've seen?

 

You seem so nice, you post beautifully and you have helped me a lot. I soooo wish you happiness with your own H and lovely family - once you sort your head out. Even if your own M can't survive, you are lovely and you deserve so much better than him. Just wash that man right out of your hair Midnight (and others). Yes - if only it was that easy!

 

Keep posting. You are amongst friends here. Sorry if I came across as harsh in my previous post. I just don't want to see yet more pain and devastation - it's everywhere all over this forum.

 

It's okay Jenkins. Thank you for your post. I did want to be with him, I was deep in the fog, and okay yes, I still have residual feelings for him but I no longer sit around wishing he would be with me. I am aware I have a husband who really is better for me and would do anything for me, kids, a business, blah blah. All that does not work to make me feel better - I know it should and honestly, I really have tried. I have just been deep in the pain and anger of it all, even though I am no victim and take my share of the blame.

 

Since doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity, I am trying to change my perspective of the situation. I have been thinking a lot and it's not so much that I was so in love with him in a traditional way, but it was that he played on my sympathies that he was unloved, uncared for and not important to his wife.

 

Before we even got involved, he set the stage by telling me about his health and how he was having heart issues and he asked his wife for help (diet/exercise) and she said to just take the pills. He reached out to me for my assistance and it is my nature to care too much and get over involved.

 

Slowly he told me things about his wife to basically get me to the emotional point where I now wanted to take care of him. They had a roommate marriage and he told me that this was her doing, she did not love him, she would not work, he was so alone and so on, countless slanted half truths and distorted information. He played the victim role to a T, going so far as to continually text me this past summer that he was "sorry he couldn't leave her". Never once did he say, I love my wife and want to be in my marriage, but acted like his wife was the one standing in between us being together.

 

So yesterday when I saw her cozy picture, I was just so mad (obviously) but today I tried to see it differently. MM has told me she has very low self-esteem, is not educated, over 50 and is very self conscious of her body. She took all the blame for his affair on herself (the rest was on me as mm blamed both his wife and myself for it).

 

I saw on FB she dropped a little weight and I know she blamed the lack of sex on her body, that he found her unattractive, so I imagine she is trying hard. The truth is mm has a problem but blames everyone but himself for everything in his life. She is trying to make the marriage work, she told my H how grateful she was that mm was giving their marriage another chance. Obviously if he got me to love him, he got her to think he is her whole world.

 

I should not interfere with that at all. That is her marriage. I have my own and my own husband to take care of. MM's health, happiness, etc. is not my problem or concern at all. It is hers. Her husband, her marriage. mm is a POS yes but even that is irrelevant to me. The whole ball of crap belongs to her, good, bad and indifferent.

 

So I am trying to shift my thinking from him to her, if that makes sense. When I think of him, I get really angry. So I am trying to change my perception of it all.

[ladydesigner]

The truth is mm has a problem but blames everyone but himself for everything in his life.

 

I think this is every MM's problem! You described my WH to a 'T' and those stripes do not change.

[ladydesigner]

OP my WH lied to me when we were in counseling too, I won't ever go to counseling with him again.

 

I was very thankful when MOW told me the truth of their A. I was blind for so many years.

 

I would tell MM that if he contacts you again you are going to forward to the wife. That should stop it!

[pteromom]

I know I am just as guilty and working through my own emotions to get through it.

 

I have blocked him on FB and email. I have not figured out how to block Google voice yet so he cannot text me there as well.

 

You don't have to respond. Just DELETE. He will eventually give up.

[jenkins95]

(((midnight)))

 

You've been through a lot haven't you? He's played you both. It's likely that not everything that he told you was a lie, but it gets to the stage when it's impossible to pick the lies from the truth and vice versa.

 

I can't help thinking that you would recover much quicker if you didn't have to see him in work every week. I know it would seriously play with my head. But you've explained that that is impossible for now. It's awful if he doesn't respect your request for NC in the office - again he's showing his flaws.

 

I know it's difficult to reconnect to your h when your head is still so occupied with him, it was the same for me too. But it can get better. A year after my a ended, we are getting so much closer again, but it's been a brutal year - I don't think I'd survive another year like that, or my wife. You can get there midnight, you really can. A year ago, I wouldn't have thought it possible to make this much progress. But even now, we have only just begun the reconciliation journey. There's so much further to go get to regain trust, fully reconnect, etc. But at least I've been able to have full NC this year.....I think it would have delayed recovery if I had to see her in work every week. You have to work with what you've got I guess.

 

As for the fb photos, well you've said it yourself, they rarely reflect the true picture. Just a week after d day, my wife's fb was full of photos of us laughing and joking in a restaurant with family in law. You'd never believe from those photos that we spent the rest of that day shouting and screaming each other and breaking down.....a pattern that continued for months.

 

Stay strong midnight. There's a lot of people who care about you here. J x

 

It's okay Jenkins. Thank you for your post. I did want to be with him, I was deep in the fog, and okay yes, I still have residual feelings for him but I no longer sit around wishing he would be with me. I am aware I have a husband who really is better for me and would do anything for me, kids, a business, blah blah. All that does not work to make me feel better - I know it should and honestly, I really have tried. I have just been deep in the pain and anger of it all, even though I am no victim and take my share of the blame.

 

Since doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity, I am trying to change my perspective of the situation. I have been thinking a lot and it's not so much that I was so in love with him in a traditional way, but it was that he played on my sympathies that he was unloved, uncared for and not important to his wife.

 

Before we even got involved, he set the stage by telling me about his health and how he was having heart issues and he asked his wife for help (diet/exercise) and she said to just take the pills. He reached out to me for my assistance and it is my nature to care too much and get over involved.

 

Slowly he told me things about his wife to basically get me to the emotional point where I now wanted to take care of him. They had a roommate marriage and he told me that this was her doing, she did not love him, she would not work, he was so alone and so on, countless slanted half truths and distorted information. He played the victim role to a T, going so far as to continually text me this past summer that he was "sorry he couldn't leave her". Never once did he say, I love my wife and want to be in my marriage, but acted like his wife was the one standing in between us being together.

 

So yesterday when I saw her cozy picture, I was just so mad (obviously) but today I tried to see it differently. MM has told me she has very low self-esteem, is not educated, over 50 and is very self conscious of her body. She took all the blame for his affair on herself (the rest was on me as mm blamed both his wife and myself for it).

 

I saw on FB she dropped a little weight and I know she blamed the lack of sex on her body, that he found her unattractive, so I imagine she is trying hard. The truth is mm has a problem but blames everyone but himself for everything in his life. She is trying to make the marriage work, she told my H how grateful she was that mm was giving their marriage another chance. Obviously if he got me to love him, he got her to think he is her whole world.

 

I should not interfere with that at all. That is her marriage. I have my own and my own husband to take care of. MM's health, happiness, etc. is not my problem or concern at all. It is hers. Her husband, her marriage. mm is a POS yes but even that is irrelevant to me. The whole ball of crap belongs to her, good, bad and indifferent.

 

So I am trying to shift my thinking from him to her, if that makes sense. When I think of him, I get really angry. So I am trying to change my perception of it all.

Edited September 14, 2016 by jenkins95

[Bufo]

This is not a 2x4. The prime directive governing MM conduct in any affair is that it's easier to keep the OW you have than it is to find, groom and seduce a replacement. That's why he won't disappear unless you stick to 100% NC. If he is a real pro at cheating, he'll be on the lookout for your replacement already, but I don't get that sense here.

 

Glad you blocked the Google conduit. Don't have those messages saved as I suspect you'll be tempted to read/hear them and even more tempted to reply.

[MidnightBlue1980]

(((midnight)))

 

You've been through a lot haven't you? He's played you both. It's likely that not everything that he told you was a lie, but it gets to the stage when it's impossible to pick the lies from the truth and vice versa.

 

I can't help thinking that you would recover much quicker if you didn't have to see him in work every week. I know it would seriously play with my head. But you've explained that that is impossible for now. It's awful if he doesn't respect your request for NC in the office - again he's showing his flaws.

 

I know it's difficult to reconnect to your h when your head is still so occupied with him, it was the same for me too. But it can get better. A year after my a ended, we are getting so much closer again, but it's been a brutal year - I don't think I'd survive another year like that, or my wife. You can get there midnight, you really can. A year ago, I wouldn't have thought it possible to make this much progress. But even now, we have only just begun the reconciliation journey. There's so much further to go get to regain trust, fully reconnect, etc. But at least I've been able to have full NC this year.....I think it would have delayed recovery if I had to see her in work every week. You have to work with what you've got I guess.

 

As for the fb photos, well you've said it yourself, they rarely reflect the true picture. Just a week after d day, my wife's fb was full of photos of us laughing and joking in a restaurant with family in law. You'd never believe from those photos that we spent the rest of that day shouting and screaming each other and breaking down.....a pattern that continued for months.

 

Stay strong midnight. There's a lot of people who care about you here. J x

 

Thank you Jenkins. I agree, it probably does make it harder having to see him each week at my business group. But the flip side is, does leaving really make it easier to not see him or am I just running away from my problems (again) - the problems I created from my own issues (again) and at the same time hurting myself professionally? And if I run without figuring this out and fixing the underlying source, am not I doomed to repeat the same scenario again the next time I have a bad time in my marriage or some guy shows me attention? These questions are somewhat rhetorical as I am stating my underlying internal conflicts.

 

I see some threads where two people meet, they feel they are soulmates, stars aligned and the sky is awash with hearts and rainbows. That was not this. This was someone I knew for years and had lunch and dinner with a few times. I have looked back in my email and saw how I wrote him - I was only contacting him to try and get business from him. I had zero interest. What happened in my mind to go from Point A of indifference to Point B - obsessive love. Yes, he told me how he had been in love with me for years, clearly he had his own issues as well as we were virtual strangers. But what happened to my mind?

 

I should add right before it happened I completely changed my hair color, my diet entirely and left my profession of 15 years to start my own business. Was mm the equivalent of the red convertible for the middle aged guy with the comb-over? Was it the perfect storm?

 

And if I left, would I really feel better? This board is full of people who have NC - you yourself said it had been a year but you still think of her. What if to go NC you had to make a huge sacrifice in your life - put your wife's feelings aside for a moment (pretend she supported whatever you did as my H does) - looking back, are you really over her or have you merely created a space between you both which exists only in the physical world but not in your mind?

[jenkins95]

Thank you Jenkins. I agree, it probably does make it harder having to see him each week at my business group. But the flip side is, does leaving really make it easier to not see him or am I just running away from my problems (again)

 

...............

 

And if I left, would I really feel better? This board is full of people who have NC - you yourself said it had been a year but you still think of her. What if to go NC you had to make a huge sacrifice in your life - put your wife's feelings aside for a moment (pretend she supported whatever you did as my H does) - looking back, are you really over her or have you merely created a space between you both which exists only in the physical world but not in your mind?

 

(((midnight)))

 

Some great posts from you lately. I hope you are doing well and apologies for not getting back to this question earlier.

 

From my own point of view, I do still think of her, but it is getting much easier. I accept that I will always think of her and love her at some level and that she is a permanent part of me somewhere hopefully eventually at the back of my mind. I find that approach is much easier than trying (and of course failing) to push her away from my thoughts completely, and I am dealing OK with this way of looking at things. I also subscribe to the "no new hurts" approach. There have been no new OW related hurts in a year and that helps. I still struggle sometimes with the old hurts, guilt, etc but they are fading. I really hope they do for her too. I truly wish her a happy life. I get the impression that your recent down period and anger WAS due to new hurts - he attitude in the office, not respecting NC, the general stress of knowing you may bump into him, etc.

 

For me, it is much better taking that completely out of the equation and helps me concentrate on my marriage, which was the choice I made. Even if my wife gave me consent to still have contact with xOW, it would still delay my recovery - much better to draw a line under it.

 

Actually, in my case, a workplace relationship with my xOW would be unworkable and cause me ridiculous stress. For one thing she is a young (much younger than me!), attractive, single (or at least she was at the end of the A - maybe she met someone by now?) woman. This would make me jealous and paranoid around the office. If she was getting hit on, and flirting, it would drive me wild with jealousy. If, on the other hand, she was avoiding all other guys, and was still obviously holding a flame for me, this would wrack me with guilt at what i had done to her and everyone.

 

Similarly, if she just behaved with me in a business manner - formal greetings and just sticking purely to business, this would kill me knowing what we had before. Conversely, if we still flirted, despite the A being over, I would be wracked with guilt.

 

No, this would mess me up very badly and take my attention away from what i really should be working on - my marriage. Much better, at least in my case, to completely take it out of the equation altogether.

 

As for this......

 

looking back, are you really over her or have you merely created a space between you both which exists only in the physical world but not in your mind?

 

Well it did feel like that for a while, months in fact and I struggled with it, fearing it would never get better or that perhaps I had made the wrong choice in letting her go. But it is much better now. I do feel that I am genuinely moving on now and that my thoughts are less painful. For one thing, I sleep right through the night now. I didn't do this during my affair (when it all started going wrong), when ending the affair and in the first few months after the affair and into reconciliation. I got used to being alone at 3am with a coffee and a head full of cr*p listening to the happy chorus of various different bird species as they woke up - how I resented them their innocent happiness! But this is much better now, I normally sleep to my alarm clock now and am ready to face the world.

 

I think you just have to accept that you are going to miss them like a lost limb for a long time after it ends and pine like crazy as with any relationship where you are letting someone go that you have genuine love for - six months or more before it starts to get noticeably easier. But be strong, stick with it and have faith in the knowledge that that is a necessary step to go through to get to the other side. Think of your own health and that of your spouse and family (in my case and midnight's). Do it for them as well as you if that is the choice you have made. I think this is why breaking NC is so damaging. You have done so much hard work and endured so much pain, then the clock goes right back to zero again if you break NC.

 

Stick to it guys - it is worth it and the pain gets less.

 

Have a good day everyone. Monday morning - another week in the right direction!

Edited September 19, 2016 by jenkins95

[MidnightBlue1980]

(((midnight)))

 

I think you just have to accept that you are going to miss them like a lost limb for a long time after it ends and pine like crazy as with any relationship where you are letting someone go that you have genuine love for - six months or more before it starts to get noticeably easier. But be strong, stick with it and have faith in the knowledge that that is a necessary step to go through to get to the other side. Think of your own health and that of your spouse and family (in my case and midnight's). Do it for them as well as you if that is the choice you have made. I think this is why breaking NC is so damaging. You have done so much hard work and endured so much pain, then the clock goes right back to zero again if you break NC.

 

Stick to it guys - it is worth it and the pain gets less.

 

Have a good day everyone. Monday morning - another week in the right direction!

 

I guess this is the crux of it for me. It is one thing if you are like Blues (sorry to use you as an example) and you are basically sleeping with different people and have no emotional attachment and you really just want to be with your wife, but that relationship is damaged (I know Blues story). That makes sense, I get why he is married. But I do not get why people like yourself and Out (sorry Out) when you are so clearly in love with another person - for you Jenkins, she is single and Out's woman is divorcing, why are you staying married? I can't help but feel that if not for your Dday Jenkins, you would still be in the A and for Out, I believe the same, his OW ended it without a D Day, so his wife has no idea. I just don't get it. Why do not go and be with these women you obviously love? Is it fair to your wives? Are they runner ups?

 

And this is not an attack. You could easily ask the same thing of me - and He Can't Break Me - why don't WE leave. And we could - except - there is no one waiting for us. Those guys don't want us outside of an A. But that is why I told her to give her husband the choice. It's the least you can do in these situations. These situations all are lousy. I saw that other thread about people congratulating the winner for getting her mm. Is anyone really the winner here? Not really.

[jenkins95]

Another good, thought provoking post midnight.

 

In the end, in my case, with my head all over the place, I had to rely on pure logic to decide where i wanted to be and not let my heart rule my head. These are some of the pieces of logic I used.....

 

1. My marriage before the A wasn't at breaking point. It just needed TLC, and I made the stupid decision to cheat instead. If given a chance, I knew the marriage had a good possibility of being successful again.

 

2. Leaving my wife for the OW would have absolutely and irreversibly devastated my family (including wider family - we are quite close)....... I've never seen such a broken human being as my wife on d-day, and one of the many things i learned in that moment is that she truly loves me. I am an emotionally weak person - even if I'd found everlasting happiness with the OW, the devastating bomb site that I would have left behind would have destroyed me slowly, and probably the OW with me. Seeing my kids only at the discretion of legal agreements and the very real possibility that they may be damaged and hate me - that would have killed me.

 

3. At one time I was just in love with my wife as I ever was with the OW. Love naturally fades and/or changes over time..... It would have with the OW too in all likelihood. My own grandfather left for an OW when my mother was 8. 15 years later.... He did it again. I also believed that love could be rekindled with my wife if i worked my balls off...... This is coming to fruition.

 

4. Cliché though it is, I do not believe that the grass is greener on the other side. Equally, my A was largely an escapist fantasy played out in a bubble. Often times, I found myself missing my wife and family when I was with the OW and actually looking forward for that particular visit to be over. This led me to imagine a horrifying possible future, with my family destroyed and all my bridges burnt, of waking up with my OW..... And missing my wife. Don't get me wrong, I genuinely loved the OW, but it's easy to fall in love when everything is new and exciting and forbidden and our meetings centred around sex and champagne. I think whichever one I ultimately left behind, I would have missed and pined for - that's the nature of the beast.

 

5. I was a cake eater, I never intended leaving my wife (and I didn't future fake either). And until she got caught, she never expressed any intention to leave her bf. This was all about fun and selfishness and having the best of both worlds. In the end I got so messed up in my head that I did consider ending it, but this was due largely to fog..... It was never my intention and I think it would have been a big mistake.

 

6. I don't believe in "the one". It felt like soul mates, but all that really is is a chemical reaction in the brain highly evolved to make us infatuated long enough to stay together to have kids. My wife certainly felt like my soul mate once, as did at least two girls previously. It would have warn off eventually, it always does....... Probably pretty soon actually. Any one of us could lower or boundaries, act selfishly put ourselves in certain situations....... And find our soul mate almost anywhere. We each have probably millions of potential soul mates..... It's not magic, it's statistics plus hormones plus badly observed boundaries.

 

7. It sounds patronising, but I don't think the OW realised quite how much her life would have changed and quite how much baggage I bring with me, had we been together. I have a special needs child, for example. Objectively is far far better for her to meet a single uncomplicated guy. Once the limerence wore off, this could have become a major issue. Cliché alert......I considered leaving her as an act of love, painful as it was at the time.

 

8. Red flags...... Both the OW and I were frighteningly good liars and cheats. We would often 'just make a little call' within earshot of each other. I could hardly believe how convincing she sounded telling him that she had had a quiet evening of study, when just five minutes before she'd been screaming out her fifth orgasm of the day. I was just as bad. She also admitted to getting bored of things very quickly (one of these things clearly being her boyfriend) and that she was afraid of anything lasting forever. Yes, red flags indeed. I would have eventually become quite paranoid, especially when her feelings for me 'normalised'. Would we ever really be able to trust each other in a normal relationship? I'm not sure. My wife on the other hand has never betrayed me or anyone in any way in over two decades.

 

9. At the end of the day, it's a case of the oldest, most clichéd story in the book! I was a stupid 40 year old guy, desperately trying to cling onto his youth and having his head turned by a beautiful 20 something girl, who in turn was selfish and wanted to try out something new. We were both selfish, stupid and ridiculous. It should never have happened and I will live with the shame and guilt for the rest of my days.

 

I could go on, but I've probably lost most readers by now. I am so lucky to have been given another chance in my marriage and I feel more love every day. It was definitely the right decision to stay. At the end of the day any decision of that enormity, you had better make sure it is the right decision whichever way you go, because indecision and mind-changing is one of the most damaging aspects of affairs. Make that decision and stick to it...... It IS the right decision!

 

I will never forget the OW and I want so much for her to be happy. The thought that I will never see her again still hurts occasionally...... But less with each passing day.

 

Good luck everyone.

Edited September 19, 2016 by jenkins95

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

I will never forget the OW and I want so much for her to be happy. The thought that I will never see her again still hurts occasionally...... But less with each passing day.

 

Good luck everyone.

 

I only quoted a small section for the internet's sake.

 

That was a very well written post. I'm sure most of the men who decided to stay - including my own H and xMM - felt the same way. xMM said similar things as you, well he talked about how he didn't want to give up his money. You did not say that, which is a positive thing.

 

It sucks and hurts that men feel this way but it's an important lesson to learn. Your OW probably went on to meet new guys, as did my H's OW, so they are okay but the MW who lost it all over a MM, that is just a shame.

 

You know, this whole experience has changed me. I used to be very vivacious, confident, funny - the kind of woman who would have a table of guys laughing at an business dinner, holding court. But now, I'm reserved. I say "my husband" a lot whereas I used to refer to him by his first name. I was never that women. Now I don't trust any men except one friend. I feel like everyone who shows interest just wants to use me.

[stilltrying16]

Great post, Jenkins. I wish it could be pinned.

 

I would think his marriage counselor would have told him to stop all contact with me to save his marriage, yet he still wants to be friends. Yet while he says he cannot act on anything right now his feelings are still as deep as they were for me. I do not want to participate in this however he will not shut it down. Since I did not out the affair, is it okay to anonymously contact the wife so she knows he never ended the affair?

OP, I really respect you for asking this very important question. Yes, I think you should contact her anonymously and send all the proof you can.

 

I'm really glad you asked this question. To get real perspective, I would suggest reading sites where more BS post, and getting their perspective. There's an especially illuminating current thread on the site Surviving Infidelity. I'm not sure we're allowed to post links to other sites- I'll check the rules and post it if I can. If you want to read the thread for yourself, it's titled "Would you want to know" and it's in the General forum.

 

A huge majority say they would prefer to be told. It's painful to lose a relationship, but it's even more painful to lose one's sense of self, confidence, self-esteem, and that is what happens to BS. Even without a DDay many can tell something is off in the relationship and bend over backwards to win back their cheating lying spouse. They begin to see themselves as unworthy and undeserving of love. It's so incredibly cruel.

 

Telling her (anonymously if you like and with proof) will be the decent thing to do.

 

I'm so sorry for everyone who is hurting- BS and OW especially. If more MM were like Jenkins, I would be sorry for their hurt too.

 

Good luck, and thanks for this thread.

Edited September 20, 2016 by stilltrying16

[stilltrying16]

There are some wonderful posts on this thread: Midnight, aileD, Jenkins, Bufo, eyeonthestorm, pretty much everyone who posted- thank you.

I wanted to quote wmacbride's wonderful post upthread, because it so perfectly states my own point of view far beter than I ever could.

 

If you are going to tell her, then do so in a way that she can verify.

 

If you do so anonymously, she might not believe it or may just think you're some kind of a crank trying to stir up trouble.

 

If you are going to spill the beans, I would suggest you send her a message that reads something like:

 

"Dear ( her name)

i am sorry to have to tell you this, but I have been involved in an emotional affair with your husband. I have ended it, and I am very sorry to have played a part in hurting you. I have cut off all methods of contact with him, and any further contact from him is not wanted.

 

Again, i do apologize for my role in all of this. .

( your name)"

 

The note is brief, informative accepts responsibility and also lets her know that you are no longer interested in hearing from her spouse. Further, it is accountable without placing the whole affair on your shoulders.

 

If you want to take it a step further, you can create a web based email account ( eg.-gmail) just for this purpose, and let her know that if she has any questions, she can send them there and you will do your best to answer them. That way, you can give her the information she wants, and if she starts getting too intense, you can easily scrap the account.

 

I think this is the best approach.

Edited September 20, 2016 by stilltrying16