Online dating is so depressing

[Els]

So you think women with a lot of options would be willing to date an inexperienced guy in his 30s?

 

I'd point out the hypocrisy of needing a woman 'with a lot of options' when you're a guy with very few options, but whatever. The answer is still yes, or at any rate they are much likely to prefer him to a guy who has had sex but still is dependant on his parents in his 30s.

 

Relationships are supposed to be a natural & big part of life, not something that's supposed to bring out negative feelings.

 

You know what else is supposed to be a natural and big part of life, especially for men? Being self-sufficient and able to support yourself without relying on your parents once you reach adulthood. That used to be when you were 16 in the older days, then it was raised to 18 and now might be 21-24 depending on level of education. But no one anywhere can stretch the definition reasonably to the 30s.

 

You can't really have one without the other.

[ZA Dater]

Have you noticed that no matter what anyone says, you return to your set of stock answers and reasons why you're in the situation that you're in?

 

Focus on getting a decent job and getting your own place. THAT will be more appealing to a woman than a guy who maybe got laid once or had a relationship but lives with his parents and works a crappy job.

 

edit: Elswyth beat me to it.

 

 

Once again I don't disagree with the message but I do disagree with this piece of content. Tell me, why is these thing are vital for a guy but less so for a lady to have? In a world of gender equality I find remarks like this mystifying.

 

 

Furthermore, I thought attraction was about the person not what they had, oh silly me for being so silly!

[BaileyB]

Agreed. Women want to date men that have a positive outlook on life and men who are enjoyable to spend time with. Your attitude is incredibly negative and you seem to create conflict with other posters. Women will not want to date you, regardless of physical appearance or attraction, if you have a negative attitude.

[GemmaUK]

Once again I don't disagree with the message but I do disagree with this piece of content. Tell me, why is these thing are vital for a guy but less so for a lady to have? In a world of gender equality I find remarks like this mystifying.

 

 

Furthermore, I thought attraction was about the person not what they had, oh silly me for being so silly!

 

For me it always displayed that the guy could look after himself.

I know many men (a good few have been lodgers of mine) who didn't know how to toast a piece of bread, didn't know how to use an iron, didn't know how to put a frozen pizza in the oven and time it to cook and not burn, didn't know how to use a washing machine. These men were all aged over 38 BTW.

 

 

OP, question for you. Why is it that you haven't yet finished your studies, got a job you like or moved out from your parents place?

[Gr8fuln2020]

It seems people here think since the women I find attractive don't want anything to do with me, I need to lower my standards to the point of where there's little/no attraction to them. How am I supposed to force myself to do that?

 

CERTAIN roadmap to disaster, misery.

[Kamille]

Once again I don't disagree with the message but I do disagree with this piece of content. Tell me, why is these thing are vital for a guy but less so for a lady to have? In a world of gender equality I find remarks like this mystifying.

 

 

Furthermore, I thought attraction was about the person not what they had, oh silly me for being so silly!

 

You're making assumptions. Most men I have met consider it important that their eventual partner has transitioned successfully into adulthood, usually by getting an education and showing that she can take care of herself and stand on her own two feet. Both partners are expected to provide for the economic and emotional wellbeing of the family.

 

Men who don't make this a priority tend to be more traditional in their approach to marriage and specifically desire a family where the man is the provider and the woman is the homemaker. Stats show these marriages are in the minority nowadays, which would suggest most men value a woman who has a job.

 

So are you saying that you want to be part of a third, less common model of the family, where the wife is the provider and the husband is the homemaker? Such couples exist and are on the rise, but they can be challenging for men as it puts into question dominant understandings of masculinity.

 

But the thing is: no matter what model you chose, make sure you don't undervalue the resourcefulness and capacities needed to be a homemaker.

[clia]

There are generally other characteristics that are pertinent to making a lot of money that also attract women -- ambition, good personality, intelligence, etc. Most men who make good money have one of more of those qualities; they aren't just being handed big jobs for no reason. There are reasons for their success. So, in my opinion, it often isn't solely the money that attracts the women. It's the other qualities that lead to the money. Most women are going to look at you and where you are and not see those qualities that they desire. So, moving out of your parents' home and getting employed should really be your top priority.

[sooshi]

I wasn't going to write in this thread again, but NJ, I don't like the way to you spoke to ChickiePops.

 

We're free to express ourselves on this public forum, provided that we don't violate community guidelines. Many of us are going to hear what they don't want to hear.

Often, it's what we need to hear.

 

You know what any quality woman will find attractive? A positive attitude.

You know what else any other quality woman will find attractive? Someone who is respectful towards women.

 

If you'd spend even a quarter of the time you do complaining about dating, analyzing hypotheticals, making excuses about not putting yourself out there, etc., into actually developing a better attitude, and taking the steps you CAN take--you'd make for a much better dating candidate.

[PrettyEmily77]

Who know OP, there may be attractive women attracted to you as you are - my guess is that they aren't online.

 

They may themselves have little ambition, no real drive to better themselves for any number of reasons (medical, political, passive attitude to life in general) and would have no issue with someone who isn't living independently. For the latter though, normally, past a certain age, you'd have to have a good reason (medical, caring for an ailing parent, saving up to afford your own house, had to move back for logistical reasons after a breakup) to not at least be in a house-share; point is, this can't be a permanent situation unless you are planning on moving her with you to your parents', with their agreement.

 

The main idea, really, is that you can't be expecting stuff off someone that you can't offer yourself in return - that's not only common sense, it's also common decency.

 

Being in a relationship will not be the answer to all your problems - likely, it'll create some more instead.

[elaine567]

Agreed. Women want to date men that have a positive outlook on life and men who are enjoyable to spend time with. Your attitude is incredibly negative and you seem to create conflict with other posters. Women will not want to date you, regardless of physical appearance or attraction, if you have a negative attitude.

 

Agreed.

My first thought in dating was not

"OMG he looks nothing like [insert hot celebrity crush ]" -> REJECT

but more

"He is interesting, he is funny, he makes me laugh, he is good company, he is easy to talk to, yes we could go out and have a good time."

 

No-one wants to go out with people who are prickly, angry, negative or bitter and it is hard work to keep the conversation flowing.

 

We all like to pre-empt the date so as not to waste time; so if there is no

hint of a connection better to pass, then awkwardly sit in Starbucks with nothing to say or worse still get into a huge fight.

Small talk is essential if you want to engage with most women/people in general.

[Els]

Once again I don't disagree with the message but I do disagree with this piece of content. Tell me, why is these thing are vital for a guy but less so for a lady to have? In a world of gender equality I find remarks like this mystifying.

 

In egalitarian relationships, it is equally important for both. The further along the spectrum you go towards traditional Rs, the more important it is for the man to be a provider-type, and for a woman to be a nurturing-type. Takes all sorts of people to make a world, which is why the percentages are skewed. But even if the OP wants an egalitarian R, he still needs to be able to at least support himself.

 

Furthermore, I thought attraction was about the person not what they had, oh silly me for being so silly!

 

It isn't even really about 'what you have'. It's about the kind of mindset involved. You are acting like we're telling the OP he needs to make 300k/year in order to have a shot at landing a girl, which really isn't what we're saying. You just need to have a decent job and live independently, because it's what the kind of man who is responsible, mature, independent, determined, and proactive DOES. Passivity, dependence, immaturity and lack of personal responsibility/ambition are turn-offs.

[elaine567]

Women in general are not seeking a man to look after ad finitum, so they need to see something in a man that shows he is his own man, he is capable of looking after himself, he is mature and responsible.

 

He doesn't need to be mega rich or to be a huge go getter or have big ambitious plans for his future life.

He just needs to be seen as someone who she respects and others respect too, someone who is a good guy.

Someone she can take care of if he needs it and someone who can take care of her if she needs it too.

A life partner.

If she is going to have children she needs someone who is going to be a good father not someone who is going to be a man child who needs more attention from her than a 5 yo.

 

So living at home with parents at 30, unless for a very good reason (ie maybe ill parents), is a huge turn off.

How can she respect a man who doesn't even pay his own bills, who may not even know how to... A man who has never had to do all the stuff that people who live independently learn to do naturally.

How can she trust him with her life when he has always had his parents to pick up the pieces in his life?

 

It may be "unfair", but it is the reality.

[Els]

So living at home with parents at 30, unless for a very good reason (ie maybe ill parents), is a huge turn off.

 

Agreed. If the OP were living at home because he was taking care of his ill parents (instead of being taken care of), my response would be very different.

[BaileyB]

Really true.

 

Women these days are often more educated, working, financially secure, and most women will often have a number of very satisfying relationships (with family, close friendships). Women have more options than they ever had in the past. For me, a man came into my life because I wanted him there, not because I needed him.

 

As such, the man that was invited into my life needed to bring something of value to my life. On a very basic level, he needed to be employed and financially secure (because I am employed and financially secure). He needed to be independent in that he had a home and could take care of himself.

 

Further, the man who I invited into my life brought so much more more than a job, a home, and financial security. At that point, I was searching for someone who was kind, respectful, and caring. I looked for someone who was fun to talk with and made me laugh. I was looking for someone who made me smile everyday. I know that I have found him because suddenly, being with him is preferable to being on my own.

 

I hope you find what you are looking for OP. But, I think you have some work to do to make yourself more attractive as a potential partner. And, I think it has less to do with physical attraction than you may think.

[ZA Dater]

Really true.

 

Women these days are often more educated, working, financially secure, and most women will often have a number of very satisfying relationships (with family, close friendships). Women have more options than they ever had in the past. For me, a man came into my life because I wanted him there, not because I needed him.

 

As such, the man that was invited into my life needed to bring something of value to my life. On a very basic level, he needed to be employed and financially secure (because I am employed and financially secure). He needed to be independent in that he had a home and could take care of himself.

 

Further, the man who I invited into my life brought so much more more than a job, a home, and financial security. At that point, I was searching for someone who was kind, respectful, and caring. I looked for someone who was fun to talk with and made me laugh. I was looking for someone who made me smile everyday. I know that I have found him because suddenly, being with him is preferable to being on my own.

 

I hope you find what you are looking for OP. But, I think you have some work to do to make yourself more attractive as a potential partner. And, I think it has less to do with physical attraction than you may think.

 

I don't really agree with the bold, I used to think it didn't matter but for most its the thing which starts everything off to begin with. You aren't going to talk to someone you don't find attractive and that baseline of attraction is physical appearance.

 

 

I am a huge cynic I freely admit that but the fundamental problem here is the attitude of the OP yes but also the medium of dating OLD is BS in the extreme, it does not work because its based SOLEY on superficial qualities.

 

 

Opportunity is a two way street if men must gives ladies opportunities then in an ideal world the reverse should be true.

 

 

Take me, I am hopeless at dating but those who know me well think I am fantastic, they trust me implicitly, they ask my opinions on personal matters and they just value me as a friend, yes there are not many of them but they got to know me over years. I go on dates and get shoved on the rubbish bin because "oh there is someone better on Tinder", its the consumerism the OP is rebelling against in a way and I agree with him.

 

 

For that we can blame the multitude of women orientated magazines with the following type of articles

"what your man should do in bed"

" what the perfect man is"

" how your man should behave"

 

 

All is it is consumerism, most of it far from reality, I dump mens magazines into the same category. People need to see through fiction and truth.

 

 

Am I bitter, sure to an extent but it is what it is, if people cannot see the value I have then so be it, I'll do my own thing. Perhaps the OP needs to adopt the same attitude and save himself (some ) anxiety in the process.

[BaileyB]

Agreed, physical attractiveness is often the first thing you notice but a relationship is unlikely to grow if it is not then based on so much more.

 

And, you are so right. OLD is totally based on superficial qualitities and there is definitely an element for both men and women that they need not invest or accept less than they want because "there is always another opportunity."

 

As you date and get rejected, people generally become a little more realistic. They learn to realize that they need to be more flexible in some things and not so quick to discard someone who may not be "exactly" what the person are looking for in a date/partner.

 

That said, if men are tired of sending messages and not getting any replies... Women are tired of receiving tons of messages from men who are rude, disrespectful, and put no thought into what they send. It is a two way street of frustration, I would say...

 

But, we are slightly off topic. OP would do better to get out and meet some real women. Do something fun, meet people, make real connections... Easier said than done, I know. But, OLD will likely just continue to grow the bitterness and frustration with dating and women.

[NJ123]

So what it all comes down to is that basically people here think I shouldn't be dating in my position which I can understand. The only problem I have with it is that the downside to that is that I'm likely going to go a few more years without any or hardly any experience. I really don't want to wake up & be 35 years old without experience since I know for sure women will be weirded out completely by it & it will be held against me even way more than it is now.

[NJ123]

I wasn't going to write in this thread again, but NJ, I don't like the way to you spoke to ChickiePops.

 

We're free to express ourselves on this public forum, provided that we don't violate community guidelines. Many of us are going to hear what they don't want to hear.

Often, it's what we need to hear.

 

You know what any quality woman will find attractive? A positive attitude.

You know what else any other quality woman will find attractive? Someone who is respectful towards women.

 

If you'd spend even a quarter of the time you do complaining about dating, analyzing hypotheticals, making excuses about not putting yourself out there, etc., into actually developing a better attitude, and taking the steps you CAN take--you'd make for a much better dating candidate.

 

I just didn't appreciate her comment making fun of me. I just wanted serious replies instead of comments attacking me like a few people in here have done.

[BaileyB]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would it take years?

 

If you are really working on moving forward in life - going to school, working, saving money to move out... You can still be looking for someone to spend time with - in friendship or dating. Especially, if you can change your perspective/attitude about women and dating.

 

Women don't want to date men who have no ambition to grow/better their lives or men who are bitter/negative. You can make a decision today to change these things, and it may not take years for you to find someone to date...

[NJ123]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would it take years?

 

If you are really working on moving forward in life - going to school, working, saving money to move out... You can still be looking for someone to spend time with - in friendship or dating. Especially, if you can change your perspective/attitude about women and dating.

 

Women don't want to date men who have no ambition to grow/better their lives or men who are bitter/negative. You can make a decision today to change these things, and it may not take years for you to find someone to date...

 

Because it would take a few years to get my degree & I likely would still be living at home while I'm trying to obtain it unless I somehow find a great job without needing a degree which isn't likely. It'll likely take 2 or maybe 3 years to do.

[normal person]

Opportunity is a two way street if men must gives ladies opportunities then in an ideal world the reverse should be true.

 

In an ideal world, maybe. In the real world -- the only one that matters, and therefore the only one we should concern ourselves with -- no. If people could stop seeing the landscape through the lens of "fairness," and start to view things through the lens of biology in conjunction with other concepts like survival, supply and demand, etc, then the nuances of male/female attraction and dating really aren't that hard to understand, if not apply.

 

Take me, I am hopeless at dating but those who know me well think I am fantastic, they trust me implicitly, they ask my opinions on personal matters and they just value me as a friend, yes there are not many of them but they got to know me over years. I go on dates and get shoved on the rubbish bin because "oh there is someone better on Tinder", its the consumerism the OP is rebelling against in a way and I agree with him.

 

It's a nuanced issue, consumerism might be part of it but certainly not the whole story. The qualities that those who know you think are fantastic are not at all necessarily the same ones that get a woman's motor running. Hence the disparity between the success of your friendships and lack thereof romantically. It's great to have a certain set of qualities in a friend, like available, agreeable, kind, etc. However, oftentimes those qualities aren't what attracts women to men sexually and you're making a mistake in assuming they can be applied as such.

 

Let's view those same qualities in romantic context, where a girl's biological inclinations do the talking.

 

Available - "He's got nothing else of importance going on and no other women are after him. Something's off. What are they noticing that I'm not?"

Agreeable - "He agrees with everything I say, never challenges it, never takes a hard stance, and never stands up to me. Is he afraid of me, a woman? Is he spineless?"

Kind - "This guy may prioritize other people before himself. He'll never survive in this dog-eat-dog world. He'll be eaten alive. This isn't a guy I want protecting me and my kids, even if he has good intentions, he needs to survive first."

 

Tell me, why is these thing are vital for a guy but less so for a lady to have? In a world of gender equality I find remarks like this mystifying.

 

"Gender equality" is a social construct. Huffington Post and all those sites can write whatever they want, but at the end of the day, biology still trumps all. A man's sexual currency has always been in his ability to provide, and a woman's is still in how attractive she is. Notions of modern feminism in full force, and women still want men to have decent jobs and men still want women to be hot. It's unlikely to change anytime soon for the overwhelming majority of people, regardless of what gets said about it. As I said earlier, it's not fairness, it's just biology.

 

 

Am I bitter, sure to an extent but it is what it is, if people cannot see the value I have then so be it, I'll do my own thing. Perhaps the OP needs to adopt the same attitude and save himself (some ) anxiety in the process.

 

I think you both just need to open your eyes a bit and realize things might not be quite how they seem. There's a lot to be understood about things that are often oversimplified.

[ChickiePops]

I just didn't appreciate her comment making fun of me. I just wanted serious replies instead of comments attacking me like a few people in here have done.

 

I wasn't attacking you at all, I was pointing out your hypocrisy. You say that you should be given a chance even though women may not be attracted to you but you won't give women you're not initially attracted to a chance.

 

All I said was that just as you shouldn't date women you're not attracted to, you can't get all huffy when women who aren't attracted to you are not interested in dating you.

[BaileyB]

Because it would take a few years to get my degree & I likely would still be living at home while I'm trying to obtain it unless I somehow find a great job without needing a degree which isn't likely. It'll likely take 2 or maybe 3 years to do.

 

I'm just saying, if you are a kind, interesting, positive person who has some ambition (working hard in school, with a plan to get a job and move out), this will make you more attractive to women. At your age, I would have considered dating a really nice guy who was going to school/building something with his life.

 

If you sell yourself as a man who has nothing going in his life... Someone who is negative and discouraged... Someone who is frustrated that things aren't going the way you want them to go... You will not get what you want. Treat a woman with kindness and respect, show her that you are hard working and ambitious, tell her your plans for the future, and show her a good time (such that she has fun with you and enjoys spending time with you)... Anything is possible when you meet the right woman.

 

It is about attitude and confidence... Improve those two things and you look completely different to the women you meet.

[ChickiePops]

You still haven't answered anyone about why you think you're a good catch.

[elaine567]

Take me, I am hopeless at dating but those who know me well think I am fantastic, they trust me implicitly, they ask my opinions on personal matters and they just value me as a friend, yes there are not many of them but they got to know me over years.

 

I go on dates and get shoved on the rubbish bin because "oh there is someone better on Tinder", its the consumerism the OP is rebelling against in a way and I agree with him.

 

That is because the people that know you and like you are not 25 year old girls and on Tinder are they? They are 40+ and in relationships, I guess, as they are the crowd you usually hang about with.

 

Older men that appeal to 25yos are usually Peter Pan types, guys who have never let go of their 20-25 yo selves.

They appeal, because they talk the same language and act like people in their twenties.

That is NOT you, so you need to stop throwing yourself up against a brick wall.

 

You pitching at 25 yos on Tinder, is like a couch potato who hates water and getting wet, trying to fit into a White Water Rafting Club, it's just not going to happen.

 

Plenty 30+ women (without kids, in case you throw the unmarried mother excuse around again ) do look great and they would speak your language, if you went looking for them and gave them a chance.