Online dating is so depressing

[Blanco]

Why are you wasting time with people who aren't even in the same state as you? Didn't you have something with a girl flame out because you didn't want to drive to her area, which was only something like an hour away?

[NJ123]

Why are you wasting time with people who aren't even in the same state as you? Didn't you have something with a girl flame out because you didn't want to drive to her area, which was only something like an hour away?

 

I matched with this woman on Bumble so we chatted for a bit. But she unmatched me after I told her what I do for work after she asked. But you're right I shouldn't even respond to the ones that live too far anymore since it's a waste of time since the odds of us ever meeting up are slim to none.

[Philosopher]

I have to actually admit, I'm seeing women with dating profiles with headlines stating, "This site should be called Plenty of Losers!" or "This site is a joke!"

 

Saw this too, "If you keep looking at my profile but can't be bothered to mail me, it's really creepy and no one wants that. So have some balls or stop stalking me, thank you."

 

A lot of them sound like they are just lecturing their audience with vile bitterness than actually talking about themselves. They share this long list of demands, told in the tone of a terrorist organization.

 

Starting to see profiles sounding bitter and angry from these women. Makes me think they should take a break, but still keep coming back.

 

Some of them sound seriously more **sed off at the world than the men on there. lol

 

Example:

 

If you are unable to take more then 30 minutes out of your day to even talk to me, this won't work. A woman wants to feel important gentlemen.

 

Don't ignore a message for half a day while you go out with your friends all night. We live in a world where you can step away to get back to her and no one's cares. He** your friends should be telling you to, as they want you happy.

 

Then there's the, "I don't NEED a man to make me happy" conversation uttered so many times in profiles as if it were necessary.

 

I just ignore profiles like these and message women whom do not sound bitter or demanding instead.

 

However on two occasions this year after a couple of messages they started to criticise me, based on something I wrote in my profile. On both occasions I thought why did they bother responding to my initial message in the first place if it bothered that much. When I read their profiles again one of the women did sound like she was rather bitter, however with the other women there was nothing on her profile at all which with indicate she would reply to my messages like that.

 

With both women I stopped replying.

[ZA Dater]

I'm not a woman, I couldn't tell you. Even so, I read a study recently saying that only 40% of women could agree on what men were attractive, whereas 90% of men could agree on what women were attractive. Womens' taste is much more variable. There are plenty of women out there who like a guy, or would, somewhere.

 

 

 

Yeah, it's probably all just pictures me leaning on my Ferrari, right?

 

I can assure you I don't. Just normal pictures, some interesting, all with funny captions. You will only find a faint hint of success mentioned, and even then it comes at the expense of a lot of honesty and self-deprecation. I've also found no real difference between listing my income and not listing it.

 

Even if that was the case, if you thought that's what you needed to do, why not do it? OLD is not subject to "fairness." If you've made a ton of money, women might take note, right? That's a huge reason why men make money to begin with. Use every advantage you've got. The whole concept of dating and mating is to attract the most desirable, compatible partner you can. If you were a doctor, would you say you swept floors? If you were 6'2" would you write that you were 5"6" just to be fair to everyone else? It isn't fair. Peoples' skills, accomplishments, and attributes are the currency by which they present themselves desirably. That's the point. That's why I keep saying it's a death sentence to be "average" in this arena. It's Darwinism. If you're not having luck, do something about it until you do.

 

 

 

My profile is funny and written in such a way that stands out from the pack -- by design -- because I'm not a complete idiot and I'm well aware that it's necessary to stand out in an arena where people are sifting through hundreds of similar profiles.

 

 

 

Nice try, but no. If I wasn't as picky as they come I wouldn't have an inbox teeming with messages and be unmarried at 30. I don't settle for anyone. I used to give a lot of people the benefit of the doubt and go out with them, but it wasn't as fruitful as hoped so I've stopped. These days I only go out with someone if she 1). Demonstrates a sense of humor and intelligence, 2). has a decent career and doesn't need my money, 3). is really cute, 4). is 5'7" or under, and 5). lives somewhere that's accessible by subway relatively easily.

 

I'd estimate that eliminates 90% of messages/links/winks from contention. So no, I don't date down.

 

 

 

Or, instead of "approaching" people, making your intention known immediately, and letting them assume the power over you, you could get someone in a circumstantial setting, not show your cards immediately, not care so obviously if you have their time and attention, and work things so that they want yours.

 

 

 

~1/3 of US marriages now start online. It's the norm.

 

 

 

I won't pretend like those things aren't important, but even if you don't have those, at some level you need to have some "bait." Your profile can't just be information, you might as well be an emotionless robot. Women need to get a sense of who you are as an individual. Not the trivial things, but personal things that characterize you. The easiest way is to be funny. You can also be interesting, mysterious, confident, or anything in that realm that engages a women's emotions and/or curiosity. That's what gets her to go from being ambivalent about you to "liking" you.

 

Writing that you like hiking is not going to do it. You need to get her to feel something about you as opposed to just learn facts. Writing that you like hiking because you feel at one with nature, have become exhausted with modern life, and prefer the threat of bears to the tedium of OLD would be a better sentence. It's expository, it shows your inner thought processes, and it's funny (not the best joke in the world, but you get the idea). You can argue with me about the supposed effectiveness, but my profile is laden with things like that. I edited it down to the word and cut all the fat from it.

 

At the end of the day, if you fail to realize that someone needs a reason to like you, or you can't give them one by making them feel something, you'll probably have an uphill battle. If I had to bet money, I'd wager this is one of the largest differences between people who are successful with it and people who aren't.

 

The reason people should like others should be personality followed by physical attraction, however both of those are intangible and the logic is the world is superficial.

 

 

Alright that's my blatant "the world is a bad place" statement done.

 

 

Agreed, people need to feel something but I really don't feel anything when I read a profile written so poorly it may have been written by a child. You project that people offer up information to make you feel, I really wish I could post some of the profile I see, none offer much of note, few are even interesting at all. Perhaps the US is a different kettle of fish in this regard, in fact I know it is because I had a look on OK cupid.

 

 

Sure people need bait but what is bait? It doesn't seem to make a huge difference what one trots out on OLD or Tinder the results are intrinsically the same, assuming one can find someone who one actually likes.

 

 

Unfortunately not all people can be funny so if you aren't then I guess its back to square one.

 

 

At least you acknowledge the fact dating is highly superficial and superficial things count a heck of a lot more.

[NJ123]

Well, I finally deleted OKCupid. Felt like it was pointless being on there since all I do is see the same people over & over on there. I guess I'll just stick with Tinder & Bumble from now on. I just wish Match.com was free since I don't want to pay money for a dating site.

[Imajerk17]

Well, I finally deleted OKCupid. Felt like it was pointless being on there since all I do is see the same people over & over on there. I guess I'll just stick with Tinder & Bumble from now on. I just wish Match.com was free since I don't want to pay money for a dating site.

 

You can't spend $30/month to find the love of your life??

 

This whole thread just reads to me like a lazy male whining and moaning about how he actually has to do work to get somewhere in life.

[NJ123]

You can't spend $30/month to find the love of your life??

 

This whole thread just reads to me like a lazy male whining and moaning about how he actually has to do work to get somewhere in life.

 

I don't know, something about having to pay for an online dating site just doesn't sit well with me. I have other monthly payments such as phone/car insurance etc. & don't want to add to it with something that likely won't work out. The odds are that the same thing will happen on there as it does on OKCupid/POF. I already went over the whole women's preferences that I saw on there that I'd rather not talk about again since I don't want there to be a full blown argument in here with others again.

[SwordofFlame]

I don't know, something about having to pay for an online dating site just doesn't sit well with me. The odds are that the same thing will happen on there as it does on OKCupid/POF. I already went over the whole women's preferences that I saw on there that I'd rather not talk about again since I don't want there to be a full blown argument in here with others again.

 

Match tends to skew older. So if you're looking for an older woman...you may want to pay.

[NJ123]

Match tends to skew older. So if you're looking for an older woman...you may want to pay.

 

How old are you talking? I would have no problem dating a woman that's as old as her early 40s. 23-42 is my preferred age range. I guess ideally I'd want someone around my own age, but I'd have no problem at all dating someone that's in an older age range than me. I find a lot of older women attractive, the only problem is most of them have kids already & I have no interest in being with someone that has kids.

[Blanco]

I don't know, something about having to pay for an online dating site just doesn't sit well with me. I have other monthly payments such as phone/car insurance etc. & don't want to add to it with something that likely won't work out. The odds are that the same thing will happen on there as it does on OKCupid/POF. I already went over the whole women's preferences that I saw on there that I'd rather not talk about again since I don't want there to be a full blown argument in here with others again.

 

If 30 bucks is that big of a deal at your age while you're living at home (I assume) rent-free, then you probably should not be looking to date right now.

 

I've not tried OLD ever, but from what I've heard, you kinda get what you pay for. It makes sense, since a paywall/site should, in theory, filter out the people who use the "throw sh*t against the wall and see what sticks" approach in online dating.

[NJ123]

If 30 bucks is that big of a deal at your age while you're living at home (I assume) rent-free, then you probably should not be looking to date right now.

 

I've not tried OLD ever, but from what I've heard, you kinda get what you pay for. It makes sense, since a paywall/site should, in theory, filter out the people who use the "throw sh*t against the wall and see what sticks" approach in online dating.

 

I just feel there's not enough options to choose from on there that are looking for guys like me in their preferences that I'd be willing to go on a date with myself. There's others that have me in their preference it's just they either have kids or some other dealbreaker for me. As I said, the odds of me messaging someone that has a preference for a guy to be making 75gs a year minimum or has a preference for guys that are 5'10"+ is definitely not going to reply back to me or it won't get past the texting stage.

[Weezy1973]

I'm a very average guy and have enjoyed success with online dating. And by success I mean I've had many dates with many women and have had some of those turn into relationships including my previous relationship and my current relationship.

 

I think if you have success in real life with dating, you should have similar success online. And you shouldn't do either exclusively. From what I can tell, the guys who are struggling with OLD in this thread also struggle with dating and relationships in real life. In other words, it has nothing to do with the online aspect of it...

[AceCutty]

She doesn't want to date you. Clearly these women would rather be single than hazard a date with you. Such is life. Move on! You do yourself no favors when you bash them repeatedly for not being interested in you.

 

 

Of course the organizer would say something like that! She's a businesswoman trying to get new subscribers to bite. (I assume joining her group is not free, right?) Her biggest competitor is going to be OLD since that's where most people meet. So, of course she bashes it. Does she have pictures of the happy couple? Testimonials? Her success rate is one couple out of how many people over what time period?

 

It reminds me of one woman who runs a very successful speed-dating service in my area. One of her lines in trying to convince me to try it, was she met her husband that way. So, I asked her when she met him. It was twelve years into running the service. (She had been single the whole time, which is how she first became interested in speed dating.) She puts on 15+ events each month, each with 100+ attendees. So, conservatively speaking that was 108,000 encounters with men over a twelve-year period to get to someone she was compatible with. For her, it was free. For the average customer, it's $40 to attend just one of her events (and that includes a discount).

 

I highly doubt this group you speak of will be the paradise of dating that you anticipate.

 

 

 

You generally have more information online. It's easier to tell basic incompatibility upfront. If you meet the person via cold approach or live event, it takes a date or two to discover the same information. The outcome is the same. You aren't getting beyond a date or two. It just takes slightly longer to get the info needed to make that same decision.

 

Since when do most people meet online? Most people that I know met in person.

 

I think that OLD is great for women, but terrible for men. As a general rule, women are able to date out of their league and men have to settle.

[AceCutty]

I'm a very average guy and have enjoyed success with online dating. And by success I mean I've had many dates with many women and have had some of those turn into relationships including my previous relationship and my current relationship.

 

I think if you have success in real life with dating, you should have similar success online. And you shouldn't do either exclusively. From what I can tell, the guys who are struggling with OLD in this thread also struggle with dating and relationships in real life. In other words, it has nothing to do with the online aspect of it...

 

You're missing some glaring things here: most women online will simply not date short men, whereas I've found that many women IRL will at least give me a chance.

 

I've tried OLD on and off for years and it's always been pretty desolate.

[AceCutty]

My success with OLD despite never sending messages first.

 

Kind of odd how I'm amongst the only people here who's successful with OLD and you scoff at my replies like I'm the one who doesn't what he's doing.

 

 

 

Never read one, but thanks for the baseless assumption. There are shades of grey but the principle holds up. Think about this: when you ask for someone's time and attention, you're essentially saying that you want something they have; that you're not comfortable with whatever you're lacking. It's like going to your friend and asking them for money. You're bowing your head and acknowledging the disparity of leverage and power between you. They have something you want and you're not resourceful or secure enough to have it yourself or be content without it. You've empowered them. You're showing concern and worry, which is unattractive. Not having something you need is not really a good look.

 

Why do you dress up nicely when you go to the bank to ask for a loan? Because you want to look nice to appease them because when you ask for their money, they have power of over you. You're at their mercy. Being at someone's mercy is not appealing. It's the same principal when you ask for someone's time and affection, be it in a message or otherwise. However you slice it, it's better to be asked than to have to ask. Whoever is being asked wears the pants. And it's more attractive to wear the pants.

 

Consider this:

 

Scenario 1: A man sees a woman he finds attractive. He feels he has to ask her out, perhaps maybe he has no other options, so he does. He's essentially saying "I'm not comfortable or secure without your time and attention, and I'm not sure I can get anyone else, so I have to ask you for yours because you're not giving it to me yet." Doesn't sound so appealing when the subtext is spelled out like that, does it?

 

This is why people get uncomfortable or nervous asking people out -- because they concede agency of the situation and willfully put their fate at someone else's discretion to reject or accept. They're making themselves vulnerable. They're lying down and submitting; deferring the decision making process to someone else. Submission is less attractive than being submitted to. Having to do it is less attractive than not having to do it. Continuing off of that...

 

Scenario 2: A man sees a woman, but doesn't really care because he has other options and he knows he can do just fine without this one girl's time and attention, because other women will give it to him. The woman finds him appealing, but he doesn't say anything to her. She wonders why, maybe he's got a ton more options and doesn't need her. She realizes if she wants to talk to this guy, she's going to have to do something about it and basically put herself out there and give the subconscious admission that she's insecure and uncomfortable enough without his attention. So she has to submit to him and put her fate in his hands; she's insecure or uncomfortable without it.

 

That's the concept. People who message other people, or approach other people are often admitting that they have to, that the other person has power over them. People who don't have to maintain the cachet of not having to because they're fine without it and not worried, and therefore not insecure.

 

And if someone has the impression of you that you're confident and secure without them, that makes you all the more appealing.

 

It's funny, I talk about this concept a lot with a lot of women and they all understand it instantaneously and can talk about it with ease, and offer their own insights -- that a guy who they feel has to message them often isn't one they'd be attracted to -- and here you're deriding it like hogwash as if it's something I just made up for fun.

 

 

 

 

That's great. If I didn't get the indication I'd try a few subtle things until I did. But do you really think it happening a handful of times makes it the rule rather than the exception? If it is, why don't you just go and do that all the time?

 

This is awful advice.

 

Are you seriously encouraging struggling men to not approach women? Newsflash: they are already aren't. That's not getting them anyway.

 

Did you ever consider the possibility that you are simply very good looking so you don't need to approach?

 

I'm a bit down and out with women right now, but it wasn't always this why. I had, by far, the most success when I was approaching women. If I didn't approach, I didn't get the girl. Almost always.

 

Here's what typically happened to me in the past: I would know a girl who would demonstrate no interest in me. I would show interest in her. She would, presumably, see me in a new light and become interested.

 

Approaching is in a man's best interest because he gets to choose who he approaches. Approaching in and of itself is not needy or desperate (and it doesn't make sense that it would be). It shows interest, which is not a bad thing, and doesn't say anything more about a man beyond that.

[ZA Dater]

Since when do most people meet online? Most people that I know met in person.

 

I think that OLD is great for women, but terrible for men. As a general rule, women are able to date out of their league and men have to settle.

 

Agree entirely with this.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Since when do most people meet online? Most people that I know met in person.

 

I think that OLD is great for women, but terrible for men. As a general rule, women are able to date out of their league and men have to settle.

 

Just curious, why do you think this is? How is it that average looking women are able to not date their equals in looks but go after what's out of their leagues...while men will settle for that or below average?

 

Kind of reminds me why they have ladies night at bars/clubs...it's always the women that the bar owners try to coax out of hiding to keep the men of the establishment company....never a "Men's Night" really.

[bebe23]

Just curious, why do you think this is? How is it that average looking women are able to not date their equals in looks but go after what's out of their leagues...while men will settle for that or below average?

 

Kind of reminds me why they have ladies night at bars/clubs...it's always the women that the bar owners try to coax out of hiding to keep the men of the establishment company....never a "Men's Night" really.

 

LookAtThisPost, why don't you spend less time griping and complaining about the women who post on OLD (most of them you haven't even met!) and more time just meeting people in your daily life?

 

I've read through your threads and this one and you do this ALL THE TIME. Who cares about them? Women are usually very nice people, and the ones who hang out on OLD probably aren't as nice as women in general. If they did, they'd find their relationships offline.

 

So why don't you stop obsessing about this for once and be better than them?

 

And ZA Dater- same goes to you. The chip on your shoulder about women can practically be seen in South Africa from space. Geez.

Edited September 22, 2016 by bebe23

[LookAtThisPOst]

the ones who hang out on OLD probably aren't as nice as women in general.

 

I think I get what you mean, as I think these are the kind of women, or people rather...you'd probably not find at a Meetup or a live social function as their resolved themselves to not having to interact with men, in person, that they would likely not be attracted to. There's no delete button in real life, but online...they are in control and prefer it that way.

 

Reason you do make a good point with this quoted section is I would look at their profile and think to myself, "You know...this person wouldn't get along with my real life circle of friends much less a Meetup activity." You can tell they don't appreciate comraderie or fellowship. Nothing warm.

 

So yeah, I get what you mean, and sometimes easy to overlook.

[normal person]

This is awful advice.

 

Are you seriously encouraging struggling men to not approach women? Newsflash: they are already aren't. That's not getting them anyway.

 

C'mon, guys. If you read back I clearly said "I think it's a bad idea." It's an opinion -- as in, I don't do it -- not a law or instruction, and it was given as an example in reply to someone describing a situation where men send hundreds of emails (not one who's "already not"). And it wasn't even the point I was trying to make. It was just the launching pad for the point, which I might as well reiterate now:

 

If you're doing something hundreds of times with no positive results, and you can't come to the conclusion that it might be wise to change or adapt your methodology or something about yourself, maybe it's not the website's "fault," considering plenty of people do figure it out.

 

So, if we're going to have this red herring discussion, admittedly there are a lot of variables here, but the point is: you can gain an advantage by not approaching/messaging/whatever first, and you can really taint your own image and shoot yourself in the foot by approaching/messaging the wrong way, which includes "often," "cluelessly," and "without invitation." I'm not saying that's the case all the time, but let's not act like it isn't a big factor. I have demonstrably a good method/theory in contrast to the guy who sends hundreds of messages and yields zilch.

 

Did you ever consider the possibility that you are simply very good looking so you don't need to approach?

 

Did you ever consider the possibility that people can be multi-dimensional, not appreciated for one single thing about them, and that regardless of what they look like they might have other appealing qualities?

 

My profile is funny. I made sure I had one of the funniest, most interesting, different, profiles anyone has ever read. http://s13.postimg.org/itawsuspz/funnyprofile.jpg

 

Same with my photo captions: http://s10.postimg.org/kjimu17sp/captions.jpg

 

So maybe things aren't as you think. This is nuts. I post in here as one of a handful of people who has figured out the things so many of you are struggling with, share my insight and knowledge for free, and people still want to try and discredit me and write me off. Can we get past this now? I know what I'm talking about.

 

 

Here's what typically happened to me in the past: I would know a girl who would demonstrate no interest in me. I would show interest in her. She would, presumably, see me in a new light and become interested.

 

If that works for you, great. There's no reason not to do it. Personally I'm not too inclined towards the "he likes me, and even though I was previously ambivalent about him, I guess I'll see where this goes because having a relationship is better than not having one" line of thought, which is what that kind of seems like. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I think that's a shaky foundation. Being with someone who likes and appreciates you from the start is probably a much better footing, in my opinion.

 

Approaching is in a man's best interest because he gets to choose who he approaches. Approaching in and of itself is not needy or desperate (and it doesn't make sense that it would be). It shows interest, which is not a bad thing, and doesn't say anything more about a man beyond that.

 

While there is something to be said about the "agency" of it, reveling in the privilege of choosing who you approach is essentially meaningless because you don't get to choose who likes you back, and that's all that matters. And while it may not be "needy or desperate" per se, I still think it's safe to say that whoever messages/desires more/asks/approaches shown (an albeit small) vulnerability/weakness, and has empowered the other person to be able to make a decision about them. I prefer the dominant position so I'll stick to the high ground and not gamble by walking up to randoms and subconsciously broadcasting the fact that no other woman wants to talk to me. I consider the psychology of the situation. It's much easier to pick from the women who who you know do like you than to do some song and dance to try and win over the ones who probably don't.

 

If you just wait to get your signal (like your email, wink, like on OLD), you're home free. No woman is going to give you a signal and then not be happy you're talking to her. If you don't get a signal, the other method is to come into contact circumstantially, then work your magic. The OLD equivalent of this is use a top spot or something that puts you in everyone's search so they can't ignore you.

 

It's just something that works great for me. If you don't like it, that's fine. Stick to messaging people, if that's what works for you. But a little open-mindedness might do some good, too.

Edited September 22, 2016 by normal person

[Nightwriter]

I've seen those posts too by women, plus some profound gems like "work hard, play harder" or wearing some barely there bikini in a provocative pose and saying "I'm here to find a gentleman". As long as you are not dwelling on these and don't think all women are like that, I don't it's a bad thing to mention it on an thread about online dating. As with everything else, online dating brings out a cross section of people. Don't judge them all that way.

 

There's defintely some social behaviors that manifest themselves online such as people try to punch above their weight, but that would happen offline too if given the opportunity.

 

We sure do cringe-worthy things to find a relationship. I think I saw this posted somewhere on this forum but it still cracks me up.

[NJ123]

LookAtThisPost, why don't you spend less time griping and complaining about the women who post on OLD (most of them you haven't even met!) and more time just meeting people in your daily life?

 

I've read through your threads and this one and you do this ALL THE TIME. Who cares about them? Women are usually very nice people, and the ones who hang out on OLD probably aren't as nice as women in general. If they did, they'd find their relationships offline.

 

So why don't you stop obsessing about this for once and be better than them?

 

And ZA Dater- same goes to you. The chip on your shoulder about women can practically be seen in South Africa from space. Geez.

 

I can actually confirm this. 99% of women that I have to interact with at my job are always really nice. I think a lot of the ones on OLD are the ones that have personality issues for which they are still single. My friend even pointed out saying there's a reason these women are still single. They either have personalities that turn men off or they're extremely picky to the point where they're holding out for some almost perfect guy.

[normal person]

I can actually confirm this. 99% of women that I have to interact with at my job are always really nice. I think a lot of the ones on OLD are the ones that have personality issues for which they are still single. My friend even pointed out saying there's a reason these women are still single. They either have personalities that turn men off or they're extremely picky to the point where they're holding out for some almost perfect guy.

 

I'm not saying I agree with you, but if if anyone thinks that's true, why even bother with OLD and continue to complain about it? Why not just allocate your time and resources where you think you'll have a better reception?

 

It's like you're a musician and you book a gig in a city where you've never sold any records before, then complain that the city is awful because no one went to see you. Maybe the culture is different, maybe they like different music there, maybe you haven't done enough promotion and marketing of your material. Either way, if you're not interested in or incapable of doing all the legwork to figure out how to appeal to the people in that city, why not just stick to the cities and places where you do have a fanbase and you know people will be receptive to you? That seems a lot easier than just complaining about the one place you had a bad experience with.

[Imported]

I can actually confirm this. 99% of women that I have to interact with at my job are always really nice. I think a lot of the ones on OLD are the ones that have personality issues for which they are still single. My friend even pointed out saying there's a reason these women are still single. They either have personalities that turn men off or they're extremely picky to the point where they're holding out for some almost perfect guy.

 

Did your friend share his opinion with you on why you're still single?

[SwordofFlame]

I can actually confirm this. 99% of women that I have to interact with at my job are always really nice. I think a lot of the ones on OLD are the ones that have personality issues for which they are still single. My friend even pointed out saying there's a reason these women are still single. They either have personalities that turn men off or they're extremely picky to the point where they're holding out for some almost perfect guy.

 

Whereas the men on OLD are all quality? By your way of thinking, quality men and quality women shouldn't need OLD at all. Which should only leave the undesirables on OLD.