Who cares if it's Love....

[Chica80]

So many times we come on here so many questions. The whys? What does it all mean? Was it ever love? Does he love me does he think about me?

 

In the end who cares! Who cares if he does love me, because you didn't choose me. You didn't choose us. But you're not exactly choosing wife either. When there is lies and feeding a different relationship that is not you're marriage.

 

Because in the end we BW/OW only get parts. She gets a part and I get a part. I'm not looking for sympathy. Or being a victim. I know what I got into. Doesn't make it less painful or any easier to understand....

 

Mostly just venting..

[MidnightBlue1980]

So many times we come on here so many questions. The whys? What does it all mean? Was it ever love? Does he love me does he think about me?

 

In the end who cares! Who cares if he does love me, because you didn't choose me. You didn't choose us. But you're not exactly choosing wife either. When there is lies and feeding a different relationship that is not you're marriage.

 

Because in the end we BW/OW only get parts. She gets a part and I get a part. I'm not looking for sympathy. Or being a victim. I know what I got into. Doesn't make it less painful or any easier to understand....

 

Mostly just venting..

 

I understand. Only the MM wins as he is lying to both women. He gets it all. It is what makes me so mad. He got it all. And you're right, I was an idiot, got played. Where is the karma? Where is the big truck mowing him down?

[Chica80]

Even now... I am sitting here on LS. The last two hrs I could have done good studying. Got some wrk done.....No here I am thinking about him. Sad about him. What is he doing? I'm sure not the same.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Even now... I am sitting here on LS. The last two hrs I could have done good studying. Got some wrk done.....No here I am thinking about him. Sad about him. What is he doing? I'm sure not the same.

 

I hear you. Look at me. Its 2am. My kids will be up in 5 hours. And I have clients tomorrow. I'm insane.

[Chica80]

HAHAHA thanks I don't know why but this made me laugh!

[NTV]

Did you want it to be love? I thought that the lack of all that kinda complexity was one of the reasons to get involved in that kind of relationship?

[Chica80]

Did you want it to be love? I thought that the lack of all that kinda complexity was one of the reasons to get involved in that kind of relationship?

 

No that's not the reason. Not for me...

I love him. Not what he gives me not what he does for me. Him I love him.

Pretty certain he loves me. But that's the point it's not enough.

[ladydesigner]

(((sunshinechica))) you are right it doesn't matter if we get chosen whether that is an OW or a BS. What matters is that we choose ourselves.

 

Take your time to walk through the pain and processing, but most importantly love yourself!

[Quiet Storm]

I think one point that is often missed is that many men do not value love nearly as much as women do.

 

Women often see finding "the one" as a top goal in life. When they find someone they connect with on that level, they want it to be constant and everlasting. They treasure love, viewing it as unique and very personal

 

Men are often fine with love being fleeting or short-lived, not feeling that desire to make it permanent. They genuinely want love and enjoy experiencing it, but they often aren't prompted to change their life for it. It's just not as important to them in the grand scheme of things.

 

So when MM tell OW, "I love you", they aren't lying. But it translates to "I love cheeseburgers, motorcycles or action movies", and doesn't mean what many OW hope it means- "I love you and will change my life to be with you forever".

 

MM often value their legacy and reputation much more than love. In MMs mind, he may genuinely love OW, but that love is usually not nearly as essential or important to him as his legacy.

 

So I agree with you- love doesn't mean much without the actions to back it up.

 

One comparison that can illustrate how meaningless the words are is when a child is abandoned by a parent, such as due to an addiction. Later, after getting sober, the parent will often say "I loved you all that time" and genuinely mean it. They did feel love in their hearts, but it was just not important enough. Loving their child with actions wasn't a priority. Those feelings of love that the parent felt were pretty useless. They did not benefit the child or the relationship bond, because the child was still alone, confused, afraid and neglected.

 

Love with no action to back it up can feel very much like neglect.

[Chica80]

I think one point that is often missed is that many men do not value love nearly as much as women do.

 

Women often see finding "the one" as a top goal in life. When they find someone they connect with on that level, they want it to be constant and everlasting. They treasure love, viewing it as unique and very personal

 

Men are often fine with love being fleeting or short-lived, not feeling that desire to make it permanent. They genuinely want love and enjoy experiencing it, but they often aren't prompted to change their life for it. It's just not as important to them in the grand scheme of things.

 

So when MM tell OW, "I love you", they aren't lying. But it translates to "I love cheeseburgers, motorcycles or action movies", and doesn't mean what many OW hope it means- "I love you and will change my life to be with you forever".

 

MM often value their legacy and reputation much more than love. In MMs mind, he may genuinely love OW, but that love is usually not nearly as essential or important to him as his legacy.

 

So I agree with you- love doesn't mean much without the actions to back it up.

 

One comparison that can illustrate how meaningless the words are is when a child is abandoned by a parent, such as due to an addiction. Later, after getting sober, the parent will often say "I loved you all that time" and genuinely mean it. They did feel love in their hearts, but it was just not important enough. Loving their child with actions wasn't a priority. Those feelings of love that the parent felt were pretty useless. They did not benefit the child or the relationship bond, because the child was still alone, confused, afraid and neglected.

 

Love with no action to back it up can feel very much like neglect.

 

 

Yes exactly!!! This is exactly it!!!

 

He said those words to me once. I don't want this to be our legacy. He has never said he loves me. His actions are what I base his feelings on.

 

I personally and in generalization as a woman think. I love you you love me it should be everything! But its not

To him it's not, it's career legacy his commitments his family....

[NTV]

If he doesn't really love you.... then are you sure you can truly call it love?

[jenkins95]

I think one point that is often missed is that many men do not value love nearly as much as women do.

 

Women often see finding "the one" as a top goal in life. When they find someone they connect with on that level, they want it to be constant and everlasting. They treasure love, viewing it as unique and very personal

 

Men are often fine with love being fleeting or short-lived, not feeling that desire to make it permanent. They genuinely want love and enjoy experiencing it, but they often aren't prompted to change their life for it. It's just not as important to them in the grand scheme of things.

 

So when MM tell OW, "I love you", they aren't lying. But it translates to "I love cheeseburgers, motorcycles or action movies", and doesn't mean what many OW hope it means- "I love you and will change my life to be with you forever".

 

MM often value their legacy and reputation much more than love. In MMs mind, he may genuinely love OW, but that love is usually not nearly as essential or important to him as his legacy.

 

So I agree with you- love doesn't mean much without the actions to back it up.

 

One comparison that can illustrate how meaningless the words are is when a child is abandoned by a parent, such as due to an addiction. Later, after getting sober, the parent will often say "I loved you all that time" and genuinely mean it. They did feel love in their hearts, but it was just not important enough. Loving their child with actions wasn't a priority. Those feelings of love that the parent felt were pretty useless. They did not benefit the child or the relationship bond, because the child was still alone, confused, afraid and neglected.

 

Love with no action to back it up can feel very much like neglect.

 

Spot on! An excellent, insightful post.

 

As an MM, I told the OW that I loved her many times. And I really meant it - it wasn't a lie, but as quiet storm so rightly points out, it probably didn't have quite the same meaning to me as it did to her. When I said, "I love you", what I really meant was...."I am happy in this moment and you are the cause. Life is great. Let's enjoy it and bask in this wonderful feeling." What I didn't mean is that i loved her and therefore I didn't love my wife and that I would be leaving her. That never entered my head. I had no idea that my words would be interpreted so differently by her, because i didn't understand this key difference. When heartbroken exOW later call the MM a liar and a manipulator, again I think a lot of it boils down to this major difference in the interpretation of those three words. Often he's not trying to manipulate as much the OW feels - he simply didn't appreciate how dangerous it is to start declaring love, when he has no intention of committing to that woman. Dangerous ground indeed. But it is more ignorance rather than manipulation.... At least in my case.

 

For MM, expressions of love, although genuine, can often be a simple celebration of joy "in that moment" and don't necessarily carry any implications beyond that. Nothing necessarily "changes" for a MM after those three words have been spoken as it can for an OW. He often just sees it as a sweet thing to say, not realising the damage he could be doing to her head and the expectations that he could be setting in her mind.

 

This difference in interpretation became very clear post d day in my own particular case. The ow couldn't get it that I could stay in my marriage if I loved her, and said that I must have been lying all along. For me it was like, hey I do love you, but we've been caught. It's game over, we knew the risks, it was amazing while it lasted and I will miss you and never forget you (this is very genuinely the case - I still miss her), but this can't continue. I've been given a chance to save my marriage and I have to try to do it.... Sorry! Okay, I didn't put it that bluntly, but in a nutshell this was my attitude. We took several weeks to actually break up (it was very painful for me too and we broke nc several times)...and I painstakingly explained my thoughts many times. She eventually realised that my feelings for her were genuine but that we had understood the situation from very different angles.

 

To many of us MM, love is great, but it is not the be all and end all. I think in general it means more to women.

Edited September 14, 2016 by jenkins95

[oceansaway]

Bottom line he is a cheater and liar. Trust would be a forever issue even if he was yours. It has taken me a long time to end my jealousy of his wife...but I wouldn't want a man like him.

Get past the loneliness you feel. Once you meet a single good man...you look back and wonder why you gave a damn about him.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Spot on! An excellent, insightful post.

 

As an MM, I told the OW that I loved her many times. And I really meant it - it wasn't a lie, but as quiet storm so rightly points out, it probably didn't have quite the same meaning to me as it did to her. When I said, "I love you", what I really meant was...."I am happy in this moment and you are the cause. Life is great. Let's enjoy it and bask in this wonderful feeling." What I didn't mean is that i loved her and therefore I didn't love my wife and that I would be leaving her. That never entered my head. I had no idea that my words would be interpreted so differently by her, because i didn't understand this key difference. When heartbroken exOW later call the MM a liar and a manipulator, again I think a lot of it boils down to this major difference in the interpretation of those three words. Often he's not trying to manipulate as much the OW feels - he simply didn't appreciate how dangerous it is to start declaring love, when he has no intention of committing to that woman. Dangerous ground indeed. But it is more ignorance rather than manipulation.... At least in my case.

 

For MM, expressions of love, although genuine, can often be a simple celebration of joy "in that moment" and don't necessarily carry any implications beyond that. Nothing necessarily "changes" for a MM after those three words have been spoken as it can for an OW. He often just sees it as a sweet thing to say, not realising the damage he could be doing to her head and the expectations that he could be setting in her mind.

 

This difference in interpretation became very clear post d day in my own particular case. The ow couldn't get it that I could stay in my marriage if I loved her, and said that I must have been lying all along. For me it was like, hey I do love you, but we've been caught. It's game over, we knew the risks, it was amazing while it lasted and I will miss you and never forget you (this is very genuinely the case - I still miss her), but this can't continue. I've been given a chance to save my marriage and I have to try to do it.... Sorry! Okay, I didn't put it that bluntly, but in a nutshell this was my attitude. We took several weeks to actually break up (it was very painful for me too and we broke nc several times)...and I painstakingly explained my thoughts many times. She eventually realised that my feelings for her were genuine but that we had understood the situation from very different angles.

 

To many of us MM, love is great, but it is not the be all and end all. I think in general it means more to women.

 

Sadly, I have learned what you say is true. xMM has told me he will love me forever and he loves both his wife and me. He was not able to get what he really wanted, both, as my H went nuts and made him tell his wife, but he would be content with a friendship. He just wants anything with me. I asked him maybe a month ago what he wanted and he said he wanted to talk with me daily, see me in person once a week and be normal, that I could contact him anytime and he would respond when he could, he would never cut off again and he could not handle NC emotionally.

 

For me, that was not worth the risk to my marriage, my mind and my soul. So I instituted NC. To me, if he really loved me and his wife, he would have left the group - it is not a job per se, he could have transferred to a location near him. He had lied to me that he would leave but he did the opposite, committed to Dec 2018. He is aware I financially need the group, he does not. I live right near it, he does not.

 

So what is love then? It does mean more to women. I can't really love two men. Men and women truly are different creatures. And my own H said I love you to his OW but he also had zero intention of leaving me. As he put it, why would I, I love my wife. But do they really - is it the wife they love or the lifestyle? When a man says he loves his OW but also his W, his W is wrapped up with the home, kids, society, history, vows, future, etc. How can the OW ever compare?

[Chica80]

(((sunshinechica))) you are right it doesn't matter if we get chosen whether that is an OW or a BS. What matters is that we choose ourselves.

 

Take your time to walk through the pain and processing, but most importantly love yourself!

 

 

Thank you. I am getting there but its a new concept for me....

[Chica80]

Spot on! An excellent, insightful post.

 

As an MM, I told the OW that I loved her many times. And I really meant it - it wasn't a lie, but as quiet storm so rightly points out, it probably didn't have quite the same meaning to me as it did to her. When I said, "I love you", what I really meant was...."I am happy in this moment and you are the cause. Life is great. Let's enjoy it and bask in this wonderful feeling." What I didn't mean is that i loved her and therefore I didn't love my wife and that I would be leaving her. That never entered my head. I had no idea that my words would be interpreted so differently by her, because i didn't understand this key difference. When heartbroken exOW later call the MM a liar and a manipulator, again I think a lot of it boils down to this major difference in the interpretation of those three words. Often he's not trying to manipulate as much the OW feels - he simply didn't appreciate how dangerous it is to start declaring love, when he has no intention of committing to that woman. Dangerous ground indeed. But it is more ignorance rather than manipulation.... At least in my case.

 

For MM, expressions of love, although genuine, can often be a simple celebration of joy "in that moment" and don't necessarily carry any implications beyond that. Nothing necessarily "changes" for a MM after those three words have been spoken as it can for an OW. He often just sees it as a sweet thing to say, not realising the damage he could be doing to her head and the expectations that he could be setting in her mind.

 

This difference in interpretation became very clear post d day in my own particular case. The ow couldn't get it that I could stay in my marriage if I loved her, and said that I must have been lying all along. For me it was like, hey I do love you, but we've been caught. It's game over, we knew the risks, it was amazing while it lasted and I will miss you and never forget you (this is very genuinely the case - I still miss her), but this can't continue. I've been given a chance to save my marriage and I have to try to do it.... Sorry! Okay, I didn't put it that bluntly, but in a nutshell this was my attitude. We took several weeks to actually break up (it was very painful for me too and we broke nc several times)...and I painstakingly explained my thoughts many times. She eventually realised that my feelings for her were genuine but that we had understood the situation from very different angles.

 

To many of us MM, love is great, but it is not the be all and end all. I think in general it means more to women.

 

I don't know if this makes things better or worse...

 

I believe it is like you say. He never intended for anything more. Ever it was never an option. Does that mean his feelings were not genuine. No, does it mean he was just using me, no I don't think so.

 

Why though, why would you risk any of it, invest into it feed it. If you knew that it was never going to last? Just so you can look back fondly? Keep these memories?

 

I feel like in the end he gets it all right. The lovely wife. The happy marriage. Great happy moments he can tuck away. My heart and all of me....What do I get?

 

Now I am angry!! and crying!!

[BluesPower]

I guess I have not given you my speech yet, sorry if this hurts.

 

I am a POS BS/WH many times over. I am maybe older, point is, I have been around.

 

Your MM does not, never did, and will never love you. He likes to screw you, he likes the ego boost, but that is all.

 

The sooner you realize this the better off you will be. Now I never lied to my other women, not that I am any less a POS for cheating, but we must have some limits to our depravity.

 

I know that you feel like you love him. but hon it is a waste of your time and emotions. Sooner or later you will believe what I am saying even if you don't believe it now.

 

I don't think you are married if I am correct, if I am wrong let me know.

 

But there are a ton of single honest guys that can provide you with real love and great sex, it happens all the time.

 

Good luck...

[Chica80]

I guess I have not given you my speech yet, sorry if this hurts.

 

I am a POS BS/WH many times over. I am maybe older, point is, I have been around.

 

Your MM does not, never did, and will never love you. He likes to screw you, he likes the ego boost, but that is all.

 

The sooner you realize this the better off you will be. Now I never lied to my other women, not that I am any less a POS for cheating, but we must have some limits to our depravity.

 

I know that you feel like you love him. but hon it is a waste of your time and emotions. Sooner or later you will believe what I am saying even if you don't believe it now.

 

I don't think you are married if I am correct, if I am wrong let me know.

 

But there are a ton of single honest guys that can provide you with real love and great sex, it happens all the time.

 

Good luck...

 

Yes thank. You posted in a different thread of mine. The thing is I've been married. (Seperated and filed) I was married when it started he was engaged. Now he is married I am seperated.

 

I had good moments in my marriage some happy and some not good. But we didn't have this, this bond this openess acceptance.

That's not re writing history. That's the way it was.

 

So when people say oh there is more single guys out there.... I married "the good guy".

[BluesPower]

And you know that he is never going to leave his wife for you?

 

What are you going to do then?

[Chica80]

And you know that he is never going to leave his wife for you?

 

What are you going to do then?

 

Yes I know. I'm trying to move forward focus on myself getting better. But it's not easy. There's still pain still things I can't understand.

 

As painful as it is. I'm having trouble letting go.

[BluesPower]

I am just so sorry that you are going through this.

 

One of my OW went through this, and even though I was straight with her she fell in love and got really hurt.

 

I finally think that I learned that it is all just not worth it.

 

I believe that it will get better, and know this: There is more than one person in the world that you can have great chemistry with. I have had great, really great chemistry with a lot of women.

 

Just hang in there...

[Chica80]

So I've posted about this before....

 

I'm pretty certain he loves me (that is not the debate).

 

I love him.......BUT regardless. He won't leave I know this always have. So if love is not reason enough for him to leave, why should love be reason enough for me to stay?

[DKT3]

So I've posted about this before....

 

I'm pretty certain he loves me (that is not the debate).

 

I love him.......BUT regardless. He won't leave I know this always have. So if love is not reason enough for him to leave, why should love be reason enough for me to stay?

 

Because your role is side chick and her role is wife. He may love you in that role but wife? Not so much.

 

Men tend to be more logical in these situations, so the idea that he would give up a faithful wife and mother for one who is unfaithful is hard to grasp, even if your cheating with him.

[BaileyB]

It shouldn't. If he's told you that he will never leave, why would you be willing to settle when you could be dating a man who can offer you love and commitment - if that's what you want. You deserve nothing less.

 

It's delusional thinking to believe anything else.

Edited October 28, 2016 by BaileyB

[aileD]

It shouldn't

 

Love doesn't always conquer all.

 

Life is not a fairy tale, it's not a movie, it's not a romantic novel.

 

Love is one side of the scale and the other side is shared history, kids,dreams, plans, finances, and a deeper hidden love for their spouse that got squashed over the years due to circumstances but is still there for a lot of people.

 

Dump them all on the scale and love loses.