Who cares if it's Love....

[Chica80]

I don't want to speak for her, but she has mentioned that a man and relationship isn't so important for her now with all the other things.This is why, I believe she is OK with the current situation. I say she is naive and a tad delusional because it's really a her way of buffering from the possible rejection, and MM actually not picking her, which we all know is most likely. Let's nit forget, he got married after the affair started.

 

 

Yes I answered this above already. A man relationship are not my priority now....been there......

 

No not delusional though....

 

We had this conversation once in beginning of A. He said if you leave and we are together you will just transfer all of your issues (past) onto me....

Whether manipulation or not who knows....it's true then and true now. I would have just gone from one man to another not truly working on anything or dealing with the reasons or things that lead me to where I am..I would just

Continue to look to someone else to save me.

[Chica80]

Delusional would be to think that he could leave his wife, leave behind a wreckage not just his marraige but family etc and we could ride off into the sunset happily ever after.

That would be delusional.

[Chica80]

That's a novel way of looking at it. How sustainable would that lifestyle be though?

 

Its not...it wasn't meant to be though...

[Chica80]

No it isn't Sunshine- fight back on that!

 

Are you truly happy being this man's OW? I cannot believe anyone posting on LS has their sh** together and is happy. We are all working hard to get there but we are currently a group of lost souls.

 

It is okay to admit you are not happy. You know what- it is okay to tell MM you are not happy. I would just recommend doing it as you slam the door in his face.

 

No I'm not happy I cant always see him. Or that I am a secret in his life. That I am part of his lies and deceiving his wife. I'm not happy about that. I hate that part.

 

I've learned that most people don't have their **** together actually. We all have our things...some more than others.

Some more broken than others. We learn and we grow though hopefully....

[imperfectangel]

Sunshine, do you actually want this affair to be over?

[Chica80]

Sunshine, do you actually want this affair to be over?

 

I'm torn....

 

Yes: I hate the lies, I hate knowing I'm contributing to someone else's pain, I'm not a on the side kind of girl, he doesn't want the double life it stresses him out. ThIs isn't sustainable it can't continue this,way.

 

No: for all reasons already stated.

[Cyra]

I'm torn....

 

Yes: I hate the lies, I hate knowing I'm contributing to someone else's pain, I'm not a on the side kind of girl, he doesn't want the double life it stresses him out. ThIs isn't sustainable it can't continue this,way.

 

No: for all reasons already stated.

 

So sorry you're going through this. I relate to above, for months before the end I felt like that. I hated the negatives and the effect it had on me, and I knew it would be better if it was over, yet i did not have the strength to end it, because of all the other reasons.

 

He told me he loved me all the time. It mattered to me that i thought it was 'love', because I am like you in the sense that I used to think that if we love each other, that should be enough to overcome anything. And yet for him it wasnt, he seemed to care about other things like material possession and 'image' more and I could not understand it. I would have done anything to be with him. A lot of people made very good points about it here though. Men just dont see love as the omnipotent force and life's ultimate goal.

 

You said that you dont need to ask him to leave because you already know the answer. Does that not bother you? Part of me thinks that you perhaps dont want to ask because you dont want to actually hear the answer you already know he would give, because that would make it real and you know that you would have to walk away then. So you sort of carry on in pretend ignorance, even try to convince yourself it is 'not so bad' to be the OW, so that you can continue enjoying him partially which at the moment seems better than nothing at all.

 

It is not a way to live, I lived like it for months after he told me he would leave and me waiting to see it happen, and I lost so much self-respect and any self-love that I had up till then, which wasnt much to begin with.

 

And when it ended it was horrible. Logically I knew I was free and better off, but the pain, the despair, the longing the powerlessness were so consuming and a month later I still feel it and it affects me daily. So I understand that you feel reluctant to end it, knowing the doom and gloom that awaits afterwards.

 

But I believe that eventually we get through it and come out stronger on the other side. I am still yet to see the light, but with every day I realize more and more how destructive the relationship was and how much I lost of myself by giving to him. I hope you can get out, I think it would be the best thing for you. He does not seem like a constructive part of your life, tbh if you were happy with the situation, you would not have written this post

Edited October 29, 2016 by Cyra

[sandylee1]

There are no children, on his end.

He has never said he loves me those are words...

 

I know all about that, stbxh was all about the ily and your the love of my life.....but actions actions did not show that...I was there for him to give him what he needed to make his life better. He loved me as long as I behaved and was the person he wanted me to be....

 

MM has not said he loves me, his actions his actions are different. He does not take or demean. He encourages and supports what I want. It would be very easy for him to keep me on the side and get whatever he wants when he wanted but he doesn't.

 

So why do you assume and asert that he loves you if he can't even say it to you?

 

 

 

Just because someone is supportive, helpful, kind and fancies the pants of you doesn't mean they love you. A MM who wants the ego stroking and admiration to keep coming from his OW would be foolish not to show an interest in other areas of her life. Otherwise she's going to loose interest and that means he's not got another woman to have sex with and say nice things to him.

[Cyra]

He has never said he loves me those are words....

 

Have you told him you loved him?

[Lion Heart]

No that's not the reason. Not for me...

I love him. Not what he gives me not what he does for me. Him I love him.

Pretty certain he loves me. But that's the point it's not enough.

 

Please do yourself THE BIGGEST FAVOUR and buy a copy of "The Road Less Travelled" by M.Scott Peck. It's not love. Sorry. You'll need your own copy lol. I referred to it more after D Day than even LS....lol...maybe!

 

Paired with any and all Stephen Covey clips on infidelity and personality disorders. Oh the list goes on.

 

Read read READ until you SEE WHO THIS total creep you "fell" for really is.

 

Cake-eaters DON'T LOVE EITHER their wife nor any OW.

Heavens they LOOK LIKE they love themselves but they're merely deficient PERSONALITIES with huge disorders in that.

 

No CHARACTER.

 

Huge blueprint there for you to seek your next partner.

 

And HEY THIS EXWH HAD A FLEET of Karma buses mow him down BIG TIME rofl.

 

I thank the OW who burst his "secret life" open a bit, forced him to tell me lol.

Sure she wanted him because SHE THOUGHT it was lerve too! Omg I told her to expect him that night. On my D Day.

I kicked his filthy a out. He hitchhiked WAY past her home to his mummy's lol. WH HATED the OW whilst she STILL thought that I WAS manipulating the situation.

 

Heck! I threw his stuff in the garage. Made him sleep there and locked him out. He had legal standing for access to the house. I didn't care.

Sleep with the cockroaches and rats and mice. Omg the things I did. You'd be SO proud!

 

Took ALL but $1 from his account.

Closed his access to mine.

Moved my WHOLE inheritance to my accounts.

NO ACCESS to the gravy train!

Forced a full screen STD check. The wimp hates needles.

I asked our female GP of there were any STD tests that required needles up short protruding male members.

Yes we laughed.

 

Sunshinechica, NOW? Nearly 2Y after D Day? THIS is WH life (lol):

* living in a cabin in someone else's back yard lol. His parents couldn't stand him in their retirement village any more.

* sleeping on a bed I got off a throw out pile (as is ALL his share of the contents)

* WORKING omg for the first time full-time since I met him. THIS is nearly killing him lol.

* I'll expand WAY more re: settlement AFTER that's complete. Suffice to say he couldn't hack his lawyers advice and sacked them after creating a huge debt ALL ON HIM.

* so I may settle AFTER he pays around $30k of debts he accrued.

* he faces criminal charges of fraud and I'll have him charged if he continues to try to screw me over.

* he can't keep.a gf because a) he's broke & homeless and or b) the new gf reads my texts about him being a serial cheat with REALLY old women.

* he CAN'T CONTROL me anymore

* he can't control my finances

* the kids have ZERO respect for him

* the kids have started to give him merry hell!

* the kids WANT WANT WANT the minute he sees them lol

* his facade of the "good guy" M to a b**** has COMPLETELY fallen apart

* he's "SO FKG LONELY" his words lol

* he's kept hitting on me so I'm NC only texts

 

I on the other hand: happy days!

* Have the kids

* have their love, respect and FULL cooperation.

* have an incredible career

* get the house lol

* get the cat rofl

* got the best car

* HAVE AN awesome boyfriend yay. We've travel overseas ALOT. We're planning our future together. Sighhhh. That's the funniest most Karmic part! WH hates Americans. Well there ya go.

* SO we have Halloween decorations up everywhere THIS year rofl

* get to keep MY 401k which is rather healthy:-)

(WH had his eyes on that for YEARS. Silly ignorant p**).

 

And the OWs have been advised by me to get full screen STD checks. That's all they got and they had to pay for these themselves.

 

At best the OWs were gonna cop living with a serial cheating, lazy, greedy, alcoholic and gambling addict.

With no money to woo them anymore.

Nor grand home promised to them.

He can't afford petrol for his bomb car.

Has 3 teenagers to financially support through high school and universities. Another 12-15 years yet. :-))

 

And he's AGED 20 years and wants plastic surgery lol.

Oh and he wants braces too. Diddums.

 

There is ONE very WH that's living his unconceived nightmares. Perfect.

 

Bestest wishes for your SPEEDY recovery Sunshinechica.

You'll soar.

 

Lion Heart

[Chica80]

To answer many questions at a time: Yes I have told him I love him.

Do I wish he would tell me he loved me, yes but they are words. Maybe his "love" is he sees me as this girl I really care about. A really good friend. Who knows....

 

Why do I assume he loves me:

 

I am not a secret in his life, I am a secret in the sense of our relationship.

It's not about sex as that hardly ever happens, and not because there isn't opportunity.

He is accessible when I need him.

We take care of each other.

 

I'm leaving out the details and examples because those are mine.

 

I'm not the sweet here to please you OW

 

One of my best friends who I always talk to because she speaks truth and doesn't just tell me what I want to hear...Knows the details. She thinks he does love me, we are only hurting eachother because it wont work.

[sandylee1]

To answer many questions at a time: Yes I have told him I love him.

Do I wish he would tell me he loved me, yes but they are words. Maybe his "love" is he sees me as this girl I really care about. A really good friend. Who knows....

 

Why do I assume he loves me:

 

I am not a secret in his life, I am a secret in the sense of our relationship.

 

.

 

So people know of you, but not that you are in a romantic relationship/extra marital affair with him?

 

How is that any better than being a full scale secret?. If anything it's worse.

 

Telling yourself he loves you is a coping mechanism. Maybe he does love you, but not enough to want to be with you full time. He may love you in your role as his mistress and nothing more.

 

He doesn't even have kids to use as an excuse.

[Chica80]

People suspect. I think sometimes she suspects.

 

Yes it is worse!

 

Contrary to popular belief, I am not delusional, naive or using it as a coping mechanism.

 

Everyone can tell you what to do whats true what's not true. But it is all based on personal experiences. Its true for me so must be true for everyone else. I can tell you that I think marraige is all about control and power that's my experience. Healthy marraiges truly happy are few and far between. That's my experience my examples in life. There are MM on here who did love their AP and chose not to leave not because they didn't love OW, but because they knew it was not the right or better choice. There are MM who it was only about sex. There are AP who left to be together and it worked because they make it work and others who did and it didn't.

 

Who knows what he really thinks or feels, he is not here. He is not the one posting on this forum. So I don't need nor want to discuss what's true or not because who truly knows. I stated that already, lots of times.

 

Ultimately like someone else put it I'm doing my cost/analysis of the situation.

[sandylee1]

So going with the belief that he loves you. .....does it help or make it any better that you aren't his right choice or the better choice for him.

[BaileyB]

I'm sorry that you have not experienced a healthy relationship, because these marriages really do exist. But, if you don't believe they exist or you don't think you are worthy of finding a healthy relationship, it seems obvious that you will settle for less.

 

A healthy relationship brings good things to your life. A healthy relationship don't leave you feeling confused, lonely, depressed, and worthless.

 

You seem so conflicted and confused. I would really encourage you to find some help to challenge your thinking and work toward believing and finding a healthy relationship. It may not mean marriage for you, and there is nothing wrong with that. But, despite how you may feel now, I can tell you for sure that you will not find it if you continue to be involved with this married man.

[imperfectangel]

If he truly loved you he wouldn't of married someone else. It's not like he's been married for years and years then met you. No one forced him to marry.

 

I am sorry you're going through this SC but it seems more like you're trying to justify your affair, maybe to yourself.

 

To end it successfully you have to want it to end. I don't believe you do, and that's OK if that's how you want to live your only life. It's yours to live after all.

 

But you do deserve better and I hope one day you realise this because when they start having kids it will literally kill you inside. BTDT. My heart literally hurt and I would not wish that feeling on anyone else

[DKT3]

People suspect. I think sometimes she suspects.

 

Yes it is worse!

 

Contrary to popular belief, I am not delusional, naive or using it as a coping mechanism.

 

Everyone can tell you what to do whats true what's not true. But it is all based on personal experiences. Its true for me so must be true for everyone else. I can tell you that I think marraige is all about control and power that's my experience. Healthy marraiges truly happy are few and far between. That's my experience my examples in life. There are MM on here who did love their AP and chose not to leave not because they didn't love OW, but because they knew it was not the right or better choice. There are MM who it was only about sex. There are AP who left to be together and it worked because they make it work and others who did and it didn't.

 

Who knows what he really thinks or feels, he is not here. He is not the one posting on this forum. So I don't need nor want to discuss what's true or not because who truly knows. I stated that already, lots of times.

 

Ultimately like someone else put it I'm doing my cost/analysis of the situation.

 

Your perception of delusion has been limited to if you believe he will or will not leave his wife. But the delusion and naivety I'm talking about is you successfully convincing yourself that you are ok with the situation. In one post you say he is a great guy and you love him because he is caring attentive and also available for you. Then you say your unhappy because he isn't with you as you would like. It's polar opposite, and impossible to meet in the middle. A caring supportive guy doesn't marry while neck deep with another. A caring supportive guy would have said hey, I'm stepping back so you can deal with your situation. Instead he is pressing you for sex, sex that you say you reject.

 

As the saying goes, you can't see the horns if your head is shoved up the bulls azz. You are too involved to see the situation as we do. It would be interesting what you would advise this exact situation were you not involved. If we were grading your married man, you would have a page full of √ while the rest of us would have a page full of X. Not seeing the totality of the situation for what it is, while convincing yourself it's different is delusional, believing a man in love with you would marry another woman while in a relationship with you is naive.

[BaileyB]

A caring supportive guy doesn't marry while neck deep with another.

 

If we were grading your married man, you would have a page full of √ while the rest of us would have a page full of X.

 

Believing a man in love with you would marry another woman while in a relationship with you is naive.

 

Quoted for truth. It's not only naive, it's stupid (I'm so sorry to say). He has mislead you terribly, and you have believed him.

 

A man who really loves you, would never do this. His behavior, the way that he treats both you and his wife, is shameful. This is not a good guy.

 

I strongly encourage you to take a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself the hard questions - you need to find out why you have been so vulnerable to him and why you don't have the self esteem/self worth to believe that you deserve more. Because what he has offered to you, would never be acceptable to most women.

 

You have one life, do you really want to spend it pining for a man who cared so little about you that he married another woman while continuing to come to your bed, expecting and wanting nothing more from you?

Edited October 29, 2016 by BaileyB

[Chica80]

Your perception of delusion has been limited to if you believe he will or will not leave his wife. But the delusion and naivety I'm talking about is you successfully convincing yourself that you are ok with the situation. In one post you say he is a great guy and you love him because he is caring attentive and also available for you. Then you say your unhappy because he isn't with you as you would like. It's polar opposite, and impossible to meet in the middle. A caring supportive guy doesn't marry while neck deep with another. A caring supportive guy would have said hey, I'm stepping back so you can deal with your situation. Instead he is pressing you for sex, sex that you say you reject.

 

As the saying goes, you can't see the horns if your head is shoved up the bulls azz. You are too involved to see the situation as we do. It would be interesting what you would advise this exact situation were you not involved. If we were grading your married man, you would have a page full of √ while the rest of us would have a page full of X. Not seeing the totality of the situation for what it is, while convincing yourself it's different is delusional, believing a man in love with you would marry another woman while in a relationship with you is naive.

 

You make alot of good points. I will clarify this though he never pushes me for sex. No I would never reject, I'm not getting enough as it is. The last time we had sex before a couple months ago was a year ago.

[Chica80]

I by no means think he is perfect or flawless.

 

No I'm not totally ok with it why else would I be on LS.

 

I come on here to post my thoughts to work things out in my head because they don't match to what I feel. I'm not here to defend myself or him.

 

These post are getting circular though....

[imperfectangel]

They're circular because there's only so many times you can ask the same questions. The answers are the same because the situation is still the same

[BaileyB]

 

I come on here to post my thoughts to work things out in my head because they don't match to what I feel.

 

That's good, we all need to talk things out to process difficult situations.

 

If I may, this is a case where the head has to overrule the heart. If he was available, you could follow your heart and see where it leads you... But, because he is married and unavailable to be in a healthy relationship with you, you have to get your head on straight and make some smart decisions - for your own mental and emotional health.

[Grey Cloud]

I hardly had sex with my my xMM either. I never took that as a sign of love. I took it for the truth - that he was having sex with his wife and in his mind that was a boundary too great to cross (even though it was crossed a few times). A lot of guys can justify oral over full blown sex. If anything it showed that his (misguided) loyalties were with his wife as he was choosing to have sex with her and not me - as he should!

 

I think your xMM loves the idea of you - knowing there is another woman that adores him and he can be the knight in shining armour helping you out and being there when you need. It's also easier for him to do that because your friendship is not a secret.

 

I fear that if his wife ever found out that would be the true test - and whether you would be quickly thrown the bus as he scrambles to save and protect his marriage like the rest!

 

Are you happy being in a situation where if you didn't text him you won't hear from him? That you initiate the contact? Wouldn't love mean he would take more risks and want to be with you all the time and not just when you see each other at work?

 

If he didn't love his wife and loved you he wouldn't have married her. He is not like other MM who is years and kids into marriage. He had his whole life ahead of him and the path he has chosen is the one with his wife.

 

The conversation is turning circular because we all care and don't want to see you being in a situation where you have told yourself it's ok to accept the crumbs

[Chica80]

I hardly had sex with my my xMM either. I never took that as a sign of love. I took it for the truth - that he was having sex with his wife and in his mind that was a boundary too great to cross (even though it was crossed a few times). A lot of guys can justify oral over full blown sex. If anything it showed that his (misguided) loyalties were with his wife as he was choosing to have sex with her and not me - as he should!

 

I think your xMM loves the idea of you - knowing there is another woman that adores him and he can be the knight in shining armour helping you out and being there when you need. It's also easier for him to do that because your friendship is not a secret.

 

I fear that if his wife ever found out that would be the true test - and whether you would be quickly thrown the bus as he scrambles to save and protect his marriage like the rest!

 

Are you happy being in a situation where if you didn't text him you won't hear from him? That you initiate the contact? Wouldn't love mean he would take more risks and want to be with you all the time and not just when you see each other at work?

 

If he didn't love his wife and loved you he wouldn't have married her. He is not like other MM who is years and kids into marriage. He had his whole life ahead of him and the path he has chosen is the one with his wife.

 

The conversation is turning circular because we all care and don't want to see you being in a situation where you have told yourself it's ok to accept the crumbs

 

 

I get it yes and thank you...The point is I didn't post does he love me or not...That wasn't my post that is what everyone else wants to discuss..

 

What I stated was if love is not reason enough to leave (him) why is love reason enough to stay (me)? That was my question, and that is what I am trying to figure out.

 

So its circular because I constantly feel I have to defend things that aren't relevant. Things that I know that I live everyday. Ultimately like I said who really knows what goes on in someone else's head... we don't. If he loves me or not is not relevant to this conversation. Am I willing to put up with crumbs as you state...that is relevant.

[BaileyB]

With all due respect, people are not really discussing whether he loves you or not. If we are, it's in the context of trying to help you to understand that his decisions/behavior is not loving and the crumbs he is offering you shouldn't be enough for you to stay. You deserve more. But, you will get that only when you decide that you deserve more.

 

It breaks my heart to see a young woman foolishly give her trust and her love to man who does not deserve it. I hope someday, you will understand this and you will not waste too much of your life on a relationship that will not bring you the love you deserve.

Edited October 30, 2016 by BaileyB