Who cares if it's Love....

[Southwardbound]

So I've posted about this before....

 

I'm pretty certain he loves me (that is not the debate).

 

I love him.......BUT regardless. He won't leave I know this always have. So if love is not reason enough for him to leave, why should love be reason enough for me to stay?

 

 

- I know throughly understand those feelings... He most likely does love you. I think some men have the ability to compartmentalize their relationships. Not every relationship, even long term ones are the same, because no two people are the same, as everyone has different needs, desires, etc. . I don't think they wish to leave because they don't wish to give up the lifestyle they have made for themselves with the wife & family. Also, because they give too much of a F about what other people might think of them. It's risky giving up the 'known' for the unknown, most men are creatures of habit - so they are too fearful to make the jump.

 

-Only you can decide what is most important & works best for you. If having that one great love what's most important for you, then it's enough for you to stay. If you think that he is your one great love? - That is how it is for me.

[imsosad]

Maybe he does love you, but only to the extent that suits him. He doesnt love you enough to make profound changes in his life to be with you. He is ok with being with you part time and devoting the greater part to another woman.

Look at all that and ask.yourself, is it worth it? Is this love enough?

Love is no reason to accept less than your worth, it's no reason to settle for part time relationships, it's not worth your dignity. Often I hear women using 'I love him' as the ultimate bottom line, for me it really isnt. Feeling in love with someone is not a reason to accept anything from them.

[Chica80]

Because your role is side chick and her role is wife. He may love you in that role but wife? Not so much.

 

Men tend to be more logical in these situations, so the idea that he would give up a faithful wife and mother for one who is unfaithful is hard to grasp, even if your cheating with him.

 

I don't think you understand what I was trying to say...I stay or come back or whatever because I love him.

 

I've been married...and not really sure if that's for me....a subject for a different day.

 

But if love is not a reason to leave why should I use that as my reason to stay?

 

Yes the logic applies as far as other things.. but not because "I'm the side chick" not with him. Your entitled to your opinion but not all things apply.

[DKT3]

I don't think you understand what I was trying to say...I stay or come back or whatever because I love him.

 

I've been married...and not really sure if that's for me....a subject for a different day.

 

But if love is not a reason to leave why should I use that as my reason to stay?

 

Yes the logic applies as far as other things.. but not because "I'm the side chick" not with him. Your entitled to your opinion but not all things apply.

 

Ha-ha, I totally get what your saying. My point is men view love differently. You see most women see it as all encompassing, they give up careers hopes and dreams to chase love. Men qualify love, it's enough to do this but not that. You are willing to risk more to be with him then he is to be with you. It's that simple. It's enough to keep you going back, but not for him to leave.

 

You've risked more, it means more to you. In. Sense your 3/4 the way down a path on broken glass. It's easier to finish then go back.

Edited October 28, 2016 by DKT3

[wmacbride]

From what I can tell, you aren't satisfied in your A, as if you were, you wouldn't be asking questions about it.

 

You may love him and he may love you. I don't know. The reality of the situation is that it doesn't really matter.

 

 

Unless this is your first relationship, I expect your felt love before in situations where it wasn't enough glue to keep you with that person.

[HeCantBreakMe]

No, love isn't enough. Not in the case of affairs because love shouldn't have been given in the first place.

[Quiet Storm]

I think its about what you value most, as an individual.

 

If a person values love above everything else, then it makes sense why they are willing to tolerate being in a relationship with a married person.

 

Each person is doing a cost/ benefit analysis, even if subconsciously.

 

Your MM has decided that the benefit of your love, is not worth the cost of leaving his marriage.

 

If he is confident in your love for him, then he likely believes he can have both simultaneously. So from his perspective, it would make no sense to leave his marriage if he can stay married and still enjoy the benefits of loving you.

 

What is your cost/ benefit analysis? How much do you value love? Is having his love and experiencing the love you share worth the downsides?

 

Reading this board, we see the negative sides of affairs. Besides the fact that he's married to someone else, OW often pay the price. The push-pull dynamic, the secretive nature of affairs, the time limits, the lack of progression...can take a toll on OWs emotional well being.

 

Yet if it ends, OW will often decide that missing him and being without him takes an even bigger toll on her. The cost/ benefit analysis is different than MMs because she places a higher value on love. Many OW decide that having him in an affair is better than not having him at all.

[MidnightBlue1980]

No, love isn't enough. Not in the case of affairs because love shouldn't have been given in the first place.

 

I heard "I love you" about 500 times from xmm before, during and after the affair. And I see it all over this board and getting sucked in by those 3 words (myself included). He does not love me and men that are hiding a relationship with a woman, do not love that woman. If they really did love her, they could never exist in this arrangement, he would have to be with her. It is not love - it is sex, fantasy, escape, limerance.

 

If you don't believe me, let the wife know. You will get dropped so fast you will have bruises from the fall as we all have experienced.

 

Love is not words, it is actions. It is not a feeling, it is a decision.

 

Love doesn't hurt others.

[Chica80]

Ha-ha, I totally get what your saying. My point is men view love differently. You see most women see it as all encompassing, they give up careers hopes and dreams to chase love. Men qualify love, it's enough to do this but not that. You are willing to risk more to be with him then he is to be with you. It's that simple. It's enough to keep you going back, but not for him to leave.

 

You've risked more, it means more to you. In. Sense your 3/4 the way down a path on broken glass. It's easier to finish then go back.

 

 

Yes! I'm passionate a romantic at heart and love is MY ultimate goal....

 

I did this, wold do this give up my dreams what I want for the one I love. Before I got married my ex and I we had these plans things I wanted things he wanted, but in the end I gave up everything I wanted to give him what he wanted...

 

He would then later throw it in my face look at everything I give you why are you so ungrateful...and I would just think but this is your life your dreams what you wanted from life. ..and mine are just that dreams because if they don't fit your plan than they don't happen.

 

south and quiet

 

Yes I've come to understand this....for MM his career his legacy or reputation that is his ultimate goal....love is nice it's an extra like icing on the cake but not the substance....this is just my interpretation of knowing him what's important to him.

 

There are times we've had discussions where I said I want to be with him I don't need or want him to leave wife. He says NO because he knows love is my end goal. He hates to see my cry and be hurt "how can I justify being so selfish, how can I do that to you"

He wants me to be happy without him to be able to have an open relationship to have love.

I want him to be happy to have me, whatever I bring to his life. And we are always at this point......

[sandylee1]

Love means different things to different people. Love for some means I want you in my life as my partner. It means I want to have you by my side as I get older.

 

Maybe your love is stronger than his. Maybe you love too hard.

 

Maybe. .. just maybe this thing we call love is a mystery.

[Jersey born raised]

Perhaps the loss of sense was so great for you, you cannot trust enough to commit to marriage again or allow the idea to enter into your thoughts. So, you settle half in and half in content that he is anchored to you since he is married.

 

Understand mutual growth - mutual - growth is the foundation of a loving marriage. A marriage where both partner seek to enable growth of their partner. A marriage both partners do sacrifice for and channel their growth to grow both individually and together. At bedrock a marriage must between equals with all but a few "gender" rolls determined only by the partners themselves.

 

Decades ago my brother using flex time was home when the kids got home from school. He discovered a passion for preparing food. He spent several years attending one or two week schools at chief schools such as CIA in New York. He prepares most meals and does a lot of the food shopping. As his wife hates to cook (but loves to clean) a blessing all around.

 

Your MOM is incapable of a health marriage, are you?

[Daisy2013]

Some do love us but as someone said, the MM's legacy is more important. Mine had nothing good to say about his wife, she was selfish, bitter and petty. I knew her, so knew this to be true. But, he needed his kids to see committment. Love did not win in our case. To this day, he says it is his dream we be together one day, but I know it won't happen. So, I guess love doesn't really matter.

[ladydesigner]

Love means different things to different people. Love for some means I want you in my life as my partner. It means I want to have you by my side as I get older.

 

Maybe your love is stronger than his. Maybe you love too hard.

 

Maybe. .. just maybe this thing we call love is a mystery.

 

I think it's a mystery and it can be fleeting too!

[Chica80]

Perhaps the loss of sense was so great for you, you cannot trust enough to commit to marriage again or allow the idea to enter into your thoughts. So, you settle half in and half in content that he is anchored to you since he is married.

 

Understand mutual growth - mutual - growth is the foundation of a loving marriage. A marriage where both partner seek to enable growth of their partner. A marriage both partners do sacrifice for and channel their growth to grow both individually and together. At bedrock a marriage must between equals with all but a few "gender" rolls determined only by the partners themselves.

 

Decades ago my brother using flex time was home when the kids got home from school. He discovered a passion for preparing food. He spent several years attending one or two week schools at chief schools such as CIA in New York. He prepares most meals and does a lot of the food shopping. As his wife hates to cook (but loves to clean) a blessing all around.

 

Your MOM is incapable of a health marriage, are you?

 

 

Thank you i lIke your pov.

....I'm not sure about being in a healthy marraige? I don't know, I went from being a wife to now OW..

 

I would say no I'm not able, at this stage of my life no Im not. I'm healthier emotionally and mentally than I was a year ago when all this started. But not healthy enough to be in a marraige. No

 

I like where my life is right now. I like where it is going. He MM was not the reason I left my M (yes obv he played a part) but more a catalyst a push for something else. And now I feel like I'm having a hard time letting go. Because he was there in the beginning.

[DKT3]

Yes! I'm passionate a romantic at heart and love is MY ultimate goal....

 

I did this, wold do this give up my dreams what I want for the one I love. Before I got married my ex and I we had these plans things I wanted things he wanted, but in the end I gave up everything I wanted to give him what he wanted...

 

He would then later throw it in my face look at everything I give you why are you so ungrateful...and I would just think but this is your life your dreams what you wanted from life. ..and mine are just that dreams because if they don't fit your plan than they don't happen.

 

south and quiet

 

Yes I've come to understand this....for MM his career his legacy or reputation that is his ultimate goal....love is nice it's an extra like icing on the cake but not the substance....this is just my interpretation of knowing him what's important to him.

 

There are times we've had discussions where I said I want to be with him I don't need or want him to leave wife. He says NO because he knows love is my end goal. He hates to see my cry and be hurt "how can I justify being so selfish, how can I do that to you"

He wants me to be happy without him to be able to have an open relationship to have love.

I want him to be happy to have me, whatever I bring to his life. And we are always at this point......

 

Romantic leave a trail of broken relationships. So much is put on romance and luminance, those things can never be lineal or lasting. Once it fades those people jump ship, ultimately never getting what they desire. Love fast and hard then move on. This romantic ideology makes one believe that relationships should be easy and always burn red hot.

 

I fear you've tasted the bitter fruit affairs are all about luminance and romance never about trust commitment and a real deeper connection, only on the surface and between the legs. Love is holding your hair while your puking your guts out, love is looking at a woman at her worse and still finding beauty. That's love deep connection and the apex of romance. Affairs are easy, it's easy to put your best foot forward in a hotel room a couple hours a week.

[malvern99]

I don't buy the idea that a man can truly be in love with someone, yet just walk away from them for whatever reason. Love is just as important to men as it is to women, and men are perfectly capable of loving just as fiercely as women are. The only difference may be in how men and women generally express their love.

 

In my eyes, if a MM really loves his OW, he will leave his wife for her without blinking. It really isn't more complicated than that. They say they love their OW because it furthers their cause. Stop paying attention to their words, they're worthless. Pay attention to their actions. Actions don't lie. The next time a MM tells you he loves you, ask him why he is still with his wife. He'll likely say something about children, finances, appearances blah blah blah. That's all bull designed to buy time for the fun to continue, and some women fall for it. Trust me, if a MM loved his OW, he would move heaven and earth to be with her. He would not hide her in the shadows of his life like some dirty little secret. He would want to show her off to his people. That's my 2 cents anyway.

[Chica80]

There are no children, on his end.

He has never said he loves me those are words...

 

I know all about that, stbxh was all about the ily and your the love of my life.....but actions actions did not show that...I was there for him to give him what he needed to make his life better. He loved me as long as I behaved and was the person he wanted me to be....

 

MM has not said he loves me, his actions his actions are different. He does not take or demean. He encourages and supports what I want. It would be very easy for him to keep me on the side and get whatever he wants when he wanted but he doesn't.

[ladydesigner]

There are no children, on his end.

He has never said he loves me those are words...

 

I know all about that, stbxh was all about the ily and your the love of my life.....but actions actions did not show that...I was there for him to give him what he needed to make his life better. He loved me as long as I behaved and was the person he wanted me to be....

 

MM has not said he loves me, his actions his actions are different. He does not take or demean. He encourages and supports what I want. It would be very easy for him to keep me on the side and get whatever he wants when he wanted but he doesn't.

 

This is very interesting that your stbxh acted like most MM, so does mine!!!

[malvern99]

There are no children, on his end.

He has never said he loves me those are words...

 

I know all about that, stbxh was all about the ily and your the love of my life.....but actions actions did not show that...I was there for him to give him what he needed to make his life better. He loved me as long as I behaved and was the person he wanted me to be....

 

MM has not said he loves me, his actions his actions are different. He does not take or demean. He encourages and supports what I want. It would be very easy for him to keep me on the side and get whatever he wants when he wanted but he doesn't.

 

I'm sorry about your stbxh. Moving on from him seems like the right decision.

 

I'm not overly familiar with your story, but let me ask you this. Would you agree that a big part of love, romantic or otherwise, is expressed via a person's willingness to sacrifice? If you agree with that sentiment, then do you think a MM who has a wife at home and a secret girlfriend on the side is sacrificing anything at all?

[elaine567]

 

I know all about that, stbxh was all about the ily and your the love of my life.....but actions actions did not show that...I was there for him to give him what he needed to make his life better. He loved me as long as I behaved and was the person he wanted me to be....

 

MM has not said he loves me, his actions his actions are different. He does not take or demean. He encourages and supports what I want. It would be very easy for him to keep me on the side and get whatever he wants when he wanted but he doesn't.

 

STBXH is your point of reference, so you are favourably comparing your MM to him.

However just because your MM is isn't overtly telling you what to do, he is still, I guess, pulling your strings.

YOU are the besotted one here, he has said nothing whatsoever about loving you.

Unfortunately, you are basing his "love" and assuming he loves you, by comparing him to your husband.

 

He must love me as he doesn't try to control me, he doesn't yell and he doesn't use me and try to change me. BUT that is a false assumption.

Being a decent human being and treating people nicely, does not equate to "love".

Starved of love in your marriage, you went looking for it in a place that tends to not be about true love at all - an affair.

 

Yes, actions speak louder than words, but if what you say is true about your husband, then just about anything positive done by your MM, will be seen as "love" by you, but that is not real "love".

Your MM has you firmly "on the side", he is not leaving his wife, so he has to work doubly hard to keep you sweet.

He therefore may do nice things for you, not for "love", as you are/were assuming, but just to keep as his OW.

[Midlifecrisis1]

I don't buy the idea that a man can truly be in love with someone, yet just walk away from them for whatever reason. Love is just as important to men as it is to women, and men are perfectly capable of loving just as fiercely as women are. The only difference may be in how men and women generally express their love.

 

In my eyes, if a MM really loves his OW, he will leave his wife for her without blinking. It really isn't more complicated than that. They say they love their OW because it furthers their cause. Stop paying attention to their words, they're worthless. Pay attention to their actions. Actions don't lie. The next time a MM tells you he loves you, ask him why he is still with his wife. He'll likely say something about children, finances, appearances blah blah blah. That's all bull designed to buy time for the fun to continue, and some women fall for it. Trust me, if a MM loved his OW, he would move heaven and earth to be with her. He would not hide her in the shadows of his life like some dirty little secret. He would want to show her off to his people. That's my 2 cents anyway.

 

 

I really have to disagree. These are not teenagers...these are grown ups with families and responsibilities. The children come first always. Sometimes people sacrifice for the sake of others...they give up someone they love for other people that they love (their children).

[lovinDKT3]

I really have to disagree. These are not teenagers...these are grown ups with families and responsibilities. The children come first always. Sometimes people sacrifice for the sake of others...they give up someone they love for other people that they love (their children).

 

What role should those same children play in the affair never taking place? As a former WW I will admit my kids were not at the forefront in my decision making process. If they had then there would have been no affair. Nothing about that selfish choice benefited my kids.

[malvern99]

I really have to disagree. These are not teenagers...these are grown ups with families and responsibilities. The children come first always. Sometimes people sacrifice for the sake of others...they give up someone they love for other people that they love (their children).

 

If the children always come first, then why is the affair happening in the first place? Surely from the second a person enters an affair, there is always a possibility that it will blow up spectacularly at some point and forever alter the lives of the very same children that supposedly come first. Married people in affairs are not teenagers, but they often behave like they are.

[Midlifecrisis1]

If the children always come first, then why is the affair happening in the first place? Surely from the second a person enters an affair, there is always a possibility that it will blow up spectacularly at some point and forever alter the lives of the very same children that supposedly come first. Married people in affairs are not teenagers, but they often behave like they are.

 

You seem to think that people always follow the same thought patterns...that a person is either rational all the time or irrational all the time. Someone can love someone, but when all the factors are suddenly put in front of them and the reality of the situation and how it would affect others in the light of day, then your responsibilities as a parent come back into the forefront.

[malvern99]

You seem to think that people always follow the same thought patterns...that a person is either rational all the time or irrational all the time. Someone can love someone, but when all the factors are suddenly put in front of them and the reality of the situation and how it would affect others in the light of day, then your responsibilities as a parent come back into the forefront.

 

My contention was that in affairs, children never come first. That holds true whether the person in the A is thinking rationally or not. Your last sentence where you say "then your responsibilities as a parent come back into the forefront" indicates that for a period of time during an A, thoughts of those responsibilities were absent. If those thoughts were absent, then surely there can be no argument made that the "children always come first", because if they did, those thoughts of responsibilities would never have been absent in the first place.