Who cares if it's Love....

[Got it]

I get it yes and thank you...The point is I didn't post does he love me or not...That wasn't my post that is what everyone else wants to discuss..

 

What I stated was if love is not reason enough to leave (him) why is love reason enough to stay (me)? That was my question, and that is what I am trying to figure out.

 

So its circular because I constantly feel I have to defend things that aren't relevant. Things that I know that I live everyday. Ultimately like I said who really knows what goes on in someone else's head... we don't. If he loves me or not is not relevant to this conversation. Am I willing to put up with crumbs as you state...that is relevant.

 

Sunshine, and I say this gently, but this is why I did not post on LS while I was in my affair. What you are trying to get to the bottom of is not the focus others want you to have. Whether or not there is any validity to what they are saying, whether or not they are things you should question, we all must walk our own paths and not everyone is at the same spot.

 

In regards to what your original question was, how can love motivate one and not another? Because we all value love differently and it's priority in our life as well as other priorities. In my affair I was very clear what my emotions meant, the logic behind them and what I expected of him when he said certain things. While it has been discussed in this thread that saying "I love you" means different things to different people, I made sure that we understood what it actually meant to utter that to the other.

 

I could not live with grey or unspoken thoughts, feelings, etc. in my affair and I refused to do so. So I asked the hard questions, had the hard conversations, and we were transparent with each other.

 

So all I can advise, is your original question is a good question to ask your MM. Ask him why love should keep you there when love doesn't push him to leave. And what is he bringing to the table to overcome the massive handicaps of him being married, and having married, while you two were together. That is his baby to rock and where he needs to overcompensate.

 

For myself, love was what kept me in the affair for an agreed upon time, but love for myself limited how long I would be in it.

[Chica80]

Sunshine, and I say this gently, but this is why I did not post on LS while I was in my affair. What you are trying to get to the bottom of is not the focus others want you to have. Whether or not there is any validity to what they are saying, whether or not they are things you should question, we all must walk our own paths and not everyone is at the same spot.

 

In regards to what your original question was, how can love motivate one and not another? Because we all value love differently and it's priority in our life as well as other priorities. In my affair I was very clear what my emotions meant, the logic behind them and what I expected of him when he said certain things. While it has been discussed in this thread that saying "I love you" means different things to different people, I made sure that we understood what it actually meant to utter that to the other.

 

I could not live with grey or unspoken thoughts, feelings, etc. in my affair and I refused to do so. So I asked the hard questions, had the hard conversations, and we were transparent with each other.

 

So all I can advise, is your original question is a good question to ask your MM. Ask him why love should keep you there when love doesn't push him to leave. And what is he bringing to the table to overcome the massive handicaps of him being married, and having married, while you two were together. That is his baby to rock and where he needs to overcompensate.

 

For myself, love was what kept me in the affair for an agreed upon time, but love for myself limited how long I would be in it.

 

 

Thank you for this....I'm conflicted....obviously as you can see in my post. The pain of it all the deception the lies. The crumbs. Because we are always the rule not the exception.

 

I know him why he makes the choices and decisions he makes...but to a forum of strangers its only one way. There's no grey.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Sunshinechica

[DKT3]

Sunshine, and I say this gently, but this is why I did not post on LS while I was in my affair. What you are trying to get to the bottom of is not the focus others want you to have. Whether or not there is any validity to what they are saying, whether or not they are things you should question, we all must walk our own paths and not everyone is at the same spot.

 

In regards to what your original question was, how can love motivate one and not another? Because we all value love differently and it's priority in our life as well as other priorities. In my affair I was very clear what my emotions meant, the logic behind them and what I expected of him when he said certain things. While it has been discussed in this thread that saying "I love you" means different things to different people, I made sure that we understood what it actually meant to utter that to the other.

 

I could not live with grey or unspoken thoughts, feelings, etc. in my affair and I refused to do so. So I asked the hard questions, had the hard conversations, and we were transparent with each other.

 

So all I can advise, is your original question is a good question to ask your MM. Ask him why love should keep you there when love doesn't push him to leave. And what is he bringing to the table to overcome the massive handicaps of him being married, and having married, while you two were together. That is his baby to rock and where he needs to overcompensate.

 

For myself, love was what kept me in the affair for an agreed upon time, but love for myself limited how long I would be in it.

I said exactly the same thing pages back. He doesn't value her and this relationship as she does, she is more vested. Her feelings for him are more unconditional then his for her. He cares for her in the role she is in. Several others have also said it. Sometimes we ask but only want what we want to come back.

 

SC can beat this to death in her head or on this site, but the situation remains the same no matter what anyone here writes to her.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I by no means think he is perfect or flawless.

 

No I'm not totally ok with it why else would I be on LS.

 

I come on here to post my thoughts to work things out in my head because they don't match to what I feel. I'm not here to defend myself or him.

 

These post are getting circular though....

 

They are circular because you are looking to make sense of something which does not make sense.

 

What is it that you are looking to understand?

 

Are you ready for the truth?

[BaileyB]

 

For myself, love was what kept me in the affair for an agreed upon time, but love for myself limited how long I would be in it.

 

Very well said.

 

SC, our feelings are not always rational, situations are complicated, and as such there is always a lot of grey. But, in this "grey" for you, is pain and hurt. Which is why, ultimately, you have to make the black and white decision to love yourself enough to make the best decisions for your own health and wellbeing.

 

And if I may, a man marrying another woman while in a relationship with you... It's pretty black and white for most people. You may have conflicting feelings about your relationship, but marrying another woman - that's about as black and white as it gets... I'm sorry to say.

Edited October 30, 2016 by BaileyB

[Chica80]

I said exactly the same thing pages back. He doesn't value her and this relationship as she does, she is more vested. Her feelings for him are more unconditional then his for her. He cares for her in the role she is in. Several others have also said it. Sometimes we ask but only want what we want to come back.

 

SC can beat this to death in her head or on this site, but the situation remains the same no matter what anyone here writes to her.

 

No the thing is you are not saying the same thing....at all....

 

You all are not discussing the same thing I am discussing it's not the same question.

 

I get that all of you are trying to help I really do, you want to spare someone else the pain that you feel or felt and the hurt and damage that has happened in your life. I totally get that. And I am not ignoring your concerns your insights your comments...I read them I take them into consideration. I really do.

 

But the truth is that your life is your experience your understanding of truth. My experience is my life and my understanding of truth. It seems to upset everyone else that I am not accepting of your truth because it is not mine.

Are there commonalities. YES are there common truths YES but not every single thing that is true for someone else is true for me.

 

And with that I'm done. Thank you

[MidnightBlue1980]

No the thing is you are not saying the same thing....at all....

 

You all are not discussing the same thing I am discussing it's not the same question.

 

I get that all of you are trying to help I really do, you want to spare someone else the pain that you feel or felt and the hurt and damage that has happened in your life. I totally get that. And I am not ignoring your concerns your insights your comments...I read them I take them into consideration. I really do.

 

But the truth is that your life is your experience your understanding of truth. My experience is my life and my understanding of truth. It seems to upset everyone else that I am not accepting of your truth because it is not mine.

Are there commonalities. YES are there common truths YES but not every single thing that is true for someone else is true for me.

 

And with that I'm done. Thank you

 

We are not sure what you are discussing or what you are asking.

 

But you know, you bring up a good point. I have no idea what on earth I am doing posting endlessly here. It's a waste of my time. Half the people never come back (hopefully they are doing fine) and the other half don't want to be helped. I know you Sunshine from our Destabilization thread. You are happy as the other woman. I'm trying to forget I ever was the other woman as its a black mark on my soul. It's bad enough I have to see him, but what am I am doing here?

 

I'm not sure this site is good for me. My H said tonight, why do you keep yourself stuck in the past with all this, don't you want to just move on with me?

 

Maybe I do.

[BaileyB]

No the thing is you are not saying the same thing....at all....

 

You all are not discussing the same thing I am discussing it's not the same question.

 

I get that all of you are trying to help I really do, you want to spare someone else the pain that you feel or felt and the hurt and damage that has happened in your life. I totally get that. And I am not ignoring your concerns your insights your comments...I read them I take them into consideration. I really do.

 

But the truth is that your life is your experience your understanding of truth. My experience is my life and my understanding of truth. It seems to upset everyone else that I am not accepting of your truth because it is not mine.

Are there commonalities. YES are there common truths YES but not every single thing that is true for someone else is true for me.

 

And with that I'm done. Thank you

 

SC, I wish you well in your journey. You seem like a very kind person. It's clear that you are not really ready to end your affair, but I hope you find the love you deserve someday. It is out there for you. Believe it.

Edited October 30, 2016 by BaileyB

[cloche]

But you know, you bring up a good point. I have no idea what on earth I am doing posting endlessly here. It's a waste of my time.

 

I'm sorry to hear you say that, Midnight, because I, for one have found your posts here really rather helpful.

 

I have had no contact with her now for nearly 3 years, when I finally pulled myself together, manned up, and walked away from the woman that I loved completely, absolutely, and with all my heart; the woman I believed I was truly meant to be with. I ended my marriage of 20 years within a month of meeting her. We were together nearly 5 years.

 

I've since found myself asking all the very same questions raised here:

did she ever really love me? if so, why did she not choose me? how could she possibly remain in a marriage as loveless and miserable as she led me to believe hers was? - she's still there today, trapped in her guilded cage - just what was true and what was a lie?

 

I remember, while in the thick of it, lying awake at night, my head literally spinning, as I turned over and over in my mind what I knew, felt, feared, believed: should I wait for her? but how much longer? was I being strung along? but what if I were to walk away - cut my losses - abandon her and save myself - when she was just days away from finally leaving him? It was so exhausting, like a never ending and super complicated game of chess that was constantly playing out in my mind, there to greet me again first thing each morning...

 

Sunshine wrote of the dissonance between what her heart and mind are telling her: yes, exactly. It's exhausting. You have to work so very hard to consciously suppress what your subconscious already knows.

 

But time apart and reading here have helped my thinking to evolve. I've found my answers here.

 

And what a bloody fool I have been.

Edited October 30, 2016 by cloche

[whichwayisup]

Even now... I am sitting here on LS. The last two hrs I could have done good studying. Got some wrk done.....No here I am thinking about him. Sad about him. What is he doing? I'm sure not the same.

 

Then push yourself really hard to NOT THINK about him. Be proactive and piss yourself off by telling yourself he isn't thinking of you at all, he's not shedding tears over you, he's moved on and hasn't cared at all. He isn't wasting his energy on you, you're his past.

 

Now, apply the same logic in YOUR life. Yes easier said than done but there's no harm in adapting a new attitude and force to really push yourself to not waste your precious time, energy and thought into someone who couldn't give a crap about you.

 

Be kind and love yourself!

[aileD]

I think you have an unhealthy perception of what love is, so it's difficult to answer your original question.

[Got it]

I said exactly the same thing pages back. He doesn't value her and this relationship as she does, she is more vested. Her feelings for him are more unconditional then his for her. He cares for her in the role she is in. Several others have also said it. Sometimes we ask but only want what we want to come back.

 

SC can beat this to death in her head or on this site, but the situation remains the same no matter what anyone here writes to her.

 

I didn't say that though, I made no assumptions of who cares more and by how much. I wrote why I think someone may do something, but what I advise was her talking to him. To ask him the whys and see if they are acceptable to her.

 

Not everyone finds being in an affair as unfullfilling and some people are happy in them for a long time. We all grow and evolve and we can outgrow any relationship. SC and her MM may work now, they may not. It is up to SC on what she wants and what she gets from the relationship. It may work for SC today or tomorrow or next month or even next year. It will work until it doesn't work. All I ask is that SC keep checking in with herself and make sure that it does work for her and if it doesn't to have the wherewithal to do what is right for herself.

[Southwardbound]

Personally I think there is a lot of grey shades going on in affairs, especially long-term ones. I've come to believe that men can compartmentalize their love, as can women. I think it's possible to love more than one person at a time & to be in more than one loving relationship at a time. Relationships can have many different shades of grey, because each individual brings different things with them to the table, so to speak. How you are with one person in a relationship, does not mean you will act the same way in another. I know that my OM has a completely different relationship with his W than he does me. We all have our little idiosyncrasies. I know that he and I talk about & do many things differently as compared to the W. Do I feel like I'm getting leftover crumbs? No, I don't. Does he love me? Yes, I know he does. Does he love her? Yes I know he does. He tells us both. Does she know about me? No. Would their relationship be different if she did? Most likely.

[Daisy2013]

I'm sorry to hear you say that, Midnight, because I, for one have found your posts here really rather helpful.

 

I have had no contact with her now for nearly 3 years, when I finally pulled myself together, manned up, and walked away from the woman that I loved completely, absolutely, and with all my heart; the woman I believed I was truly meant to be with. I ended my marriage of 20 years within a month of meeting her. We were together nearly 5 years.

 

I've since found myself asking all the very same questions raised here:

did she ever really love me? if so, why did she not choose me? how could she possibly remain in a marriage as loveless and miserable as she led me to believe hers was? - she's still there today, trapped in her guilded cage - just what was true and what was a lie?

 

I remember, while in the thick of it, lying awake at night, my head literally spinning, as I turned over and over in my mind what I knew, felt, feared, believed: should I wait for her? but how much longer? was I being strung along? but what if I were to walk away - cut my losses - abandon her and save myself - when she was just days away from finally leaving him? It was so exhausting, like a never ending and super complicated game of chess that was constantly playing out in my mind, there to greet me again first thing each morning...

 

Sunshine wrote of the dissonance between what her heart and mind are telling her: yes, exactly. It's exhausting. You have to work so very hard to consciously suppress what your subconscious already knows.

 

But time apart and reading here have helped my thinking to evolve. I've found my answers here.

 

And what a bloody fool I have been.

 

How did you get the strength to walk away from someone you loved so completely? I think many of us are afraid to feel the pain, I know I am. But, it can't be worse than what we are experiencing now. I hope you see this and will answer. You may be of some help.

[cloche]

How did you get the strength to walk away from someone you loved so completely? I think many of us are afraid to feel the pain, I know I am. But, it can't be worse than what we are experiencing now. I hope you see this and will answer. You may be of some help.

 

For me, it was less a matter of strength than of self preservation.

 

It took me a very long time, but from observing her (in)actions I was steadily piecing together a more complete picture of who she actually is, as opposed to who I wished her to be. And as one deadline after another sailed by, I was also reaching the inescapable conclusion that - and despite all that she was telling me: "meant to be together", "moving steadily towards me", "retaining a lawyer", "mediation with her husband", "discussing parenting schedules" and so on - in the years we had been together she had not, in fact, taken one single concrete step toward actually making herself available, let alone building any real kind of future together. It was all just words - a beautiful seductive fantasy we had constructed together.

 

I eventually had this epiphany: if she truly wanted to be with me, well, then,... she would be.

 

While I loved her absolutely, I concluded that we were never actually going to be able to meet one another's needs, and that moreover, our respective needs were in fact fundamentally incompatible: mine, to marry, blend our two families, and live happily ever after (what can I say? fog logic); hers, to retain full custody of her children without sacrificing her home, friends, marriage, or wealth, and all the while having her emotional needs met outside the marriage.

 

Walking away was incredibly painful - like a part of me was dying inside - but it helped to know that it was the only reasonable choice available to me - and that the pain would be bounded. It would, and with absolute certainty, diminish over time. By contrast, staying within the relationship meant submitting my power to another - one who had proven beyond all doubt that they were categorically unfit to wield it - while committing myself ever deeper to indefinite and unbounded pain.

 

For me, the relationship was all about hope, and a deep, deep sense of longing that I had carried with me all my life. And yet the relationship was proving to be no less of a trap than the marriage I had left for it; hopeless, in other words. Walking away, on the hand, at least opened up the possibility of happiness at some distant point in the future and so created hope.

 

I know our situations are rather different, daisy, but nevertheless, this might be something you can make use of?

 

My unsolicited advice? Separate your marriage from your affair. Tackle them one at a time. Your affair is making you miserable, and is, if I have understood correctly, utterly hopeless. End it definitively, thus creating the possibility of positive change. Much is written here about how to do so decisively - on your terms, not his. Read posts by Owl, Poppy, MidnightBlue, DKT, and others because, in my opinion, they know what they are talking about. Doing so will hurt, but the pain will end, whilst it is guaranteed to continue as long as you attempt to remain even just friends with your pastor.

 

Only then can you tackle your marriage. Is it hopeless too? Maybe, maybe not. If so, end it. If not, work on it. One thing seems certain, however: as long you continue your friendship with the pastor you are in no position to evaluate its prospects.

 

*Create hope* for yourself, in other words.

 

Very best wishes

Edited November 3, 2016 by cloche

[Daisy2013]

For me, it was less a matter of strength than of self preservation.

 

It took me a very long time, but from observing her (in)actions I was steadily piecing together a more complete picture of who she actually is, as opposed to who I wished her to be. And as one deadline after another sailed by, I was also reaching the inescapable conclusion that - and despite all that she was telling me: "meant to be together", "moving steadily towards me", "retaining a lawyer", "mediation with her husband", "discussing parenting schedules" and so on - in the years we had been together she had not, in fact, taken one single concrete step toward actually making herself available, let alone building any real kind of future together. It was all just words - a beautiful seductive fantasy we had constructed together.

 

I eventually had this epiphany: if she truly wanted to be with me, well, then,... she would be.

 

While I loved her absolutely, I concluded that we were never actually going to be able to meet one another's needs, and that moreover, our respective needs were in fact fundamentally incompatible: mine, to marry, blend our two families, and live happily ever after (what can I say? fog logic); hers, to retain full custody of her children without sacrificing her home, friends, marriage, or wealth, and all the while having her emotional needs met outside the marriage.

 

Walking away was incredibly painful - like a part of me was dying inside - but it helped to know that it was the only reasonable choice available to me - and that the pain would be bounded. It would, and with absolute certainty, diminish over time. By contrast, staying within the relationship meant submitting my power to another - one who had proven beyond all doubt that they were categorically unfit to wield it - while committing myself ever deeper to indefinite and unbounded pain.

 

For me, the relationship was all about hope, and a deep, deep sense of longing that I had carried with me all my life. And yet the relationship was proving to be no less of a trap than the marriage I had left for it; hopeless, in other words. Walking away, on the hand, at least opened up the possibility of happiness at some distant point in the future and so created hope.

 

Yes, this! I can identify with this 100%.

 

I know our situations are rather different, daisy, but nevertheless, this might be something you can make use of?

 

Most certainly!

 

Thank you for your story!!

 

My unsolicited advice? Separate your marriage from your affair. Tackle them one at a time. Your affair is making you miserable, and is, if I have understood correctly, utterly hopeless. End it definitively, thus creating the possibility of positive change. Much is written here about how to do so decisively - on your terms, not his. Read posts by Owl, Poppy, MidnightBlue, DKT, and others because, in my opinion, they know what they are talking about. Doing so will hurt, but the pain will end, whilst it is guaranteed to continue as long as you attempt to remain even just friends with your pastor.

 

Only then can you tackle your marriage. Is it hopeless too? Maybe, maybe not. If so, end it. If not, work on it. One thing seems certain, however: as long you continue your friendship with the pastor you are in no position to evaluate its prospects.

 

Yes, it seems so. It was long before the A, which is why when he professed his feelings for me, it was "game over" and I fell in love quickly. I had for years just been told to do my own thing and I was afraid to leave and be alone. I stayed to raise my children and because divorce is not good, and God frowns upon divorce. The irony ... divorce vs affair.

 

*Create hope* for yourself, in other words.

 

Very best wishes

 

Cloche, this is indeed a valuable and insightful reply, thank you. Please stick around, you have much to offer. As well, you provide us a man's point of view; I do not believe all MM are evil or cake-eaters. Some do love. I do read what is posted by those you named, they write words of wisdom. But "doing" is so difficult. To admit, and let go of that hope you wrote of. To let go of hope, means all, I have waited and longed for for is lost. And the los of my friend, someone who tells me he loves me more than anyone, but God...and vows. So, he has to stay.

 

This is not meant to hijack another's thread and I apologize. I just needed to hear what you did to move on, and thought it could help others as well. Again, thank you, and please stick around.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Read posts by Owl, Poppy, MidnightBlue, DKT, and others because, in my opinion, they know what they are talking about. Doing so will hurt, but the pain will end, whilst it is guaranteed to continue as long as you attempt to remain even just friends with your pastor.

 

 

I'm deeply flattered. I'm also don't want to hijack the thread, truthfully I am not sure what the actual question was anymore. I also loved xmm very much and would have lived in a cardboard box to be with him. But he wanted what your xow wanted - the stability of a marriage with the love and sex of an A on the side. So I ended it long ago now, almost a year.

 

I've been in pain for so long now, I don't remember what it is like to not be in pain. It's my bag of rocks I carry with me. I still love him and he loves me but we are strangers now. It's horrible. Neither of us would leave but finally he caved and is leaving end of this month. I'm devastated. He won't talk to me.

 

Affairs suck. They ruin your life, destroy your mind and rob your soul. Everyone loses.

[aileD]

Affairs suck. They ruin your life, destroy your mind and rob your soul. Everyone loses.

 

Quoted for truth