Daughter with ODD

[jnel921]

My daughter will turn 19 next week. At a young age she was diagnosed as having oppositional defiance disorder. We thought over the years with careful handling and strict rules that she would overcome this and her behavior.

 

But it seems that each and every year it gets worse and we have a new set of problems to deal with. Because she is not happy with our rules she was told that she could move out at any time since she was 18. But because she didn't have anywhere to go this was never the case until this week.

 

We were having issues with her telling us she was in one place and doing something else, also lying about her work hours so that she could disappear and hang out with people I don't know.

 

Over the years since HS I have dealt with her almost being kicked out of school for marijuana use on the school grounds. She was on probation the rest of the year and went to a rehab program for 6 months until she tested negative. Once she did two months later she was using again and this limited my plans for her.

 

We wanted to get her a car, but could not deem it possible since she was smoking and possibly drinking with her friends on a regular basis. We enrolled her in a nearby community college where she didn't need a car. While in CC she met even more losers who she followed around.

 

She decided she wanted to go to an esthetic in school. However I told her to do this she would need to stop smoking and would need a car. Since the summer we have been testing her and she finally had a clean test 2 weeks ago.

 

I thought maybe with this change she was turning a corner but she only showed me that she wasn't. Last week she asked me to drop her off at a friends house for a bbq and it turned out that was not her final destination. When I called her and asked her why she had not called me and asked me if it was ok to go out with her friends she said they had made the decision. Which didn't make sense to me. She was supposed to have been home at 10pm since it was a work night but came home at 1:30am. I told her that she was not going to be going anywhere any time soon. However 3 days later she announced she had plans and said I made a big deal out of nothing. She still left the house against my wishes.

 

Honestly I felt worn down by her attitude and mouth and just wanted her to leave. I know this did not teach her anything. So on Monday she said she had work until 11 pm. When I checked in on her at 9:00pm I found out she had already left work and never told me where she was or with whom.

 

I called and called but she wouldn't pick up. I sent her a text threatening to shut her phone and it was only then that she picked up. She said she was at her managers house who was having issues with her BF who happens to be their boss. I was upset and reminded her once again about the importance of calling me. She once again acted like it wasn't a big deal. My husband got on the phone and told her to bring her butt home and hand over her phone.

 

At that post she decided that she wasn't going to come back and she didn't. The next day I found out that she spent the night with her HS friend that she got in trouble with over the pot at school. I had no idea they were hanging out again. She stopped by my house threw most of her stuff in garbage bags and took a cab to her friends house. My husband followed her and saw the mother of her friend there who claimed she didn't know what was going on. That she only knew my daughter was in her house that morning. My H asked our daughter for the phone back.

 

At first she said she didn't have it. My H told her it was a lease and that if she was not going to be living with us he was returning it. So she went inside and got it. She threw it in his direction and when he saw it was apparent that she had banged it against a wall, cracked the glass and bent it. He left and called me and was so upset at her behavior and actions.

 

I went over there later that night and she was not there. but I did speak to the friends mother who after talking to me let me know that my daughter made me out to be a monster. Saying she could not talk to me. I let her know she doesn't talk to me, doesn't tell me where she is or what she is doing nor does she want me to know anything. If anything I have been deeply hurt by her.

 

The mother said she would talk to her. That is was obvious that my daughter was lying to her about me as well. The way she portrayed me she expected me to go over fighting, screaming or maybe calling the cops and this was not the case. The agreement the mother said she had with my daughter was that she'd save some money to move on her own, however that night she took a shower called out of work and had a friend pick her up. So I told her that that did not sound like a plan for someone who wants to build a savings to leave.

 

She assured me that she was not going to be a hotel. She told me her daughter turned around from the pot smoking and works 2 jobs and barely goes out. She has a son who is a senior in Hs and works a job too and a young daughter who she says does not need to be around negative influences. She is also concerned because she has a husband at home.

 

My daughter is famous for walking around with her boobs or butt cheeks hanging out so not sure how that is going to fly over there.

 

I handed her the letter I wrote to my daughter and left my number just in case. My letter only stated my dissapointement in her behavior and how I had enough of her disrespect , behavior and lies. How she never cared about how her actions affect anyone and that I was done.i wished her luck if she ever had a daughter of her own, perhaps she will giver her the love,honor and respect that she never knew to give me.

 

This is all very upsetting as I have dealt with her and this behavior for 8 years already. She was seeing a therapist but I think she was lying to him as well. I hate to say it, but if I never spoke to my daughter again I may be ok. This is how deep this pain is. The worst part is that she lacks insight and not remorseful. So I cannot ever see her being genuinely sorry about anything.

 

This has been tough and I wanted to know if there are any other parents who have dealt with this and how they are coping or handling this situation. Lord knows I am at the end of my rope.?

Edited September 14, 2016 by jnel921

[MissG]

I'm very sorry you're going through this and have been for years. Why do you think she's acting that way? Is ODD actually a diagnosed condition? I've heard about it before, from my teacher friends, but never knew what to make of it. Is it learned behavior? Or based on genetics?

 

I know of one family in my hometown where the parents literally had to give up on their son, because he just wouldn't follow any rules, got in trouble in HS, did a lot of drugs. He had a child with some girl right out of high school, and that child is now being raised by the grandparents. This is a great, tight-knit family, the grandchild is doing really well, they are a loving, religious family. The "defiant" son now lives in the streets, not sure if he sees his kid much, and how often he shows up at home. Maybe they don't even know where he lives now. Not sure.

 

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes you really can't DO anything. You've given it your all, and they just don't understand and/or evolve. Sometimes it's addiction, sometimes it's hatred towards the FOO for whatever reason - sometimes justified, sometimes not. But after spending so much time and energy to make it right as a parent, I absolutely don't blame you when you say you're done and you just don't care anymore. I'm sure you'll be there if she decides to come around. Until then, you have the right to protect yourself, heal and decompress.

[maryjanekelly]

My daughter is ODD/ADHD as well. I can sympathize with your weight and stress load. Is she taking medication for it?

[jnel921]

Thanks MissG.

 

ODD is an actual diagnosis. I took her to a therapist when she was 11. She was displaying a lot of defiant and unremorseful behavior back then and I wanted to know what was going on.

 

It started with a state quarters coin collection I had. I had been putting it together over the course of the many years they were issuing the coins. I had about 5 of each state coin. I had gotten a wall frame and hung up the 50 coins. The remaining coins were in a box in my closet in a box. I was going to place those coins in cases and perhaps give them as gifts.

 

I was transferring some winter clothing when I noticed the box on the other side of my closet. When I opened it they were all gone. She denied it at first and then eventually confessed. I was really upset. But she didn't feel bad at all. It was about $50 in coins and she spent it on candy and junk food. she didn't care.

 

She then stole a pair of UGGS from the girls locker room. She was caught and couldn't return them because she had written her name on them. We went to a juvenile court where I was ordered to pay for the boots. She also had to go to a youth court which sentenced her to 50 hours of community service.

 

Over the years she has gotten in lots of trouble and I have paid the price along with her.

 

Once she got to HS she would get into trouble and lie often. All of the teachers knew me, the AP, the social worker and the school psychologist. All this did was upset, frustrate and embarrass me.

 

She was always combatative at home. There were a few times when she'd run away. She has left our home in the middle of the night. Has had people in our house with alcohol when I was away.

 

I had to report her missing in January when she told me she would be with her cousin and a friend in the city but it turned out no one went except her. I could not find her on GPS, she had turned off her phone and came home the next day claiming she was with a friend whose father tried to kiss her while she was there and all the while she is telling this story she is crying in front of the police who were at my home, but never bothered picked up her phone to call us?

 

Over the summer I called the police because she was threatening me and for the first time I was afraid. How the hell does that happen?

 

I have a son who is 18 months older and he is a dream. I am not sure why she is my nightmare. But this has taken its toll on my health which is not good.

[jnel921]

My daughter is ODD/ADHD as well. I can sympathize with your weight and stress load. Is she taking medication for it?

 

No, the psychiatrist she has been seeing has not prescribed anything. He says that she is immature. That maybe she can grow out of this but I cant see how since the decisions she is making is based on lies to manipulate other people.

 

She had to tell her friend's mom that she is staying with right now that I am a horrible person. I spoke with her last night and she was surprised that my daughter has said all of things she did about me.

 

Her drug of choice was Pot. But she would become extra disrespectful when she was high. She claimed this would take away her stress, but I believe it killed the most important brain cells which lack insight.

[SGTMom0508]

Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles. I actually have a nephew who was diagnosed with ODD. It's incredibly difficult. My sister just had to admit him into a residential therapy center, where he is getting near constant therapies to try to help with the ODD. He is 13 though, so still a minor. Do you think that is something you would want to look into? Is your daughter receiving any therapies currently?

[jnel921]

Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles. I actually have a nephew who was diagnosed with ODD. It's incredibly difficult. My sister just had to admit him into a residential therapy center, where he is getting near constant therapies to try to help with the ODD. He is 13 though, so still a minor. Do you think that is something you would want to look into? Is your daughter receiving any therapies currently?

 

Thanks SGTMom0508, my daughter saw a psychiatrist when she was in the first year of middle school.thats when she was diagnosed. The doctor however couldn't handle her behavior herself. She would get upset. One day after a joint session she patted me on the back and apologized. I never saw her again because it was clear she had no respect for her.

 

My husband and I tried our best disciplining her and letting her know why. But she always did something new and more extreme than the last and it was too much. This year she started seeing my marriage counselor who also does behavioral counseling. He worked with all of us and I thought the therapy was working. But I soon learned that my daughter only learned how to lie better.

 

It's a frustrating and hurtful situation. It's been a week since she is out of my house and she didn't want to speak with us although she did everything wrong. Today is her birthday and she finally called me. Told me if I was going to upset her that she would not come by. I told her I needed to speak to her about the future.

 

I think my daughter believes she can live the rest of her life out of her friends house. Right now I am letting go and letting God. It's difficult but I do t see what else I can do unless she is home and agrees.

 

My guess may be medication but the doctor we see now never mentioned she should take anything.

 

If I could turn back time I am not sure what I would do different. It's painful to have the love you give to your kids kicked back at you. We are about to travel on our family vacation in Wednesday and she won't be there. Part of me is glad and the other sad that she cannot realize how she hurts us.

[mrs rubble]

My youngest son was a very troubled youth, he was diagnosed initially with conduct disorder and then later PTSD. I'm not convinced either are accurate diagnoses.

His behaviour was appalling, fighting at school and around the neighbourhood. Violently lashing out at his brother and myself. He stole, ran away, smashed holes in walls. He dabbled in pot. Ran away from home and refused to do anything I asked.

I involved everyone I could in helping to turn this behaviour around, I sent him to counselling, community programs run by the police for troubled youth. I had truancy services and the community youth police check in on him regularly and I encouraged every little tiny thing he did RIGHT with ott praise of each thing.

I listened to his dreams and concerns and talked everything through with him.

I never ever ridiculed his ideas even if I thought they were nuts, I gently explained pitfalls and let him see how he could make his idea better.

 

Reading your posts, I noticed that you didn't have one positive point to mention about your daughter. It seems to me that you may be concentrating mostly on her diagnosis and bad behaviour. It's what you've expected from her for years now and she doesn't know how to behave any other way now.

I encourage you to find something wonderful about her and celebrate her for it.

If you start like I did to encourage and reward good traits, she'll start to value herself more and act in a way to be further valued by others.

 

Good luck! I know how heartbreaking challenging behaviour can be. Stay strong and stay positive.

[SammySammy]

At what point are you willing to let go and let her deal with the consequences of her behavior?

 

Despite her disorder and your desire to protect her certain facts remain:

 

 

1. She's legally an adult.
   
2. As an adult, she can choose when, where and who she hangs out with.
   
3. She can choose what she does. She's already doing that for the most part.
   
4. You won't be able to shield her from the consequences of her behavior. If she's going to make the decisions (and she is), you're not going to be able to stop the natural result of those decisions.
   

The very best that you can hope for is she starts making better decisions on her own - without your oversight - as quickly as possible.

 

The question is how to get her to that point. Independently productive and constructive. Sometimes, life experience can be the best teacher when mom and dad can't get through.

Edited September 20, 2016 by MidKnightDreams

[GunslingerRoland]

I'm pretty sure my 7 year old son has ODD, so it scares me reading a thread like this about what the future may hold.

 

I'm really really surprised that her doctors didn't recommend any medication though. I'm a firm believer that when it comes to conditions like this a combination of therapy and medication is the best approach. You need the medication to get the brain at a base level where you can at least start to get success with therapy. Sounds like a psych who had too much confidence in their own healing abilities.

 

I think you are doing all you can by being firm and not enabling... I'm not sure I'd have the strength to do what you are doing.

[jnel921]

My youngest son was a very troubled youth, he was diagnosed initially with conduct disorder and then later PTSD. I'm not convinced either are accurate diagnoses.

His behaviour was appalling, fighting at school and around the neighbourhood. Violently lashing out at his brother and myself. He stole, ran away, smashed holes in walls. He dabbled in pot. Ran away from home and refused to do anything I asked.

I involved everyone I could in helping to turn this behaviour around, I sent him to counselling, community programs run by the police for troubled youth. I had truancy services and the community youth police check in on him regularly and I encouraged every little tiny thing he did RIGHT with ott praise of each thing.

I listened to his dreams and concerns and talked everything through with him.

I never ever ridiculed his ideas even if I thought they were nuts, I gently explained pitfalls and let him see how he could make his idea better.

 

Reading your posts, I noticed that you didn't have one positive point to mention about your daughter. It seems to me that you may be concentrating mostly on her diagnosis and bad behaviour. It's what you've expected from her for years now and she doesn't know how to behave any other way now.

I encourage you to find something wonderful about her and celebrate her for it.

If you start like I did to encourage and reward good traits, she'll start to value herself more and act in a way to be further valued by others.

 

Good luck! I know how heartbreaking challenging behaviour can be. Stay strong and stay positive.

Mrs. Rubble....

 

Its been a few weeks and there are some updates. first I want to say that I do praise my daughters better qualities. My husband and I plan for rewards and most of the time she messes that up by pulling some stunt, being disrespectful or crossing the boundaries we have set.

 

Its tough because she has the potential to be successful. She is a great make up artist and her passion is doing that and taking care of her skin.

 

When we got back from our trip that I excluded her from she immediately called me and wanted to talk to us. For the most part I think she was surprised that I would cut her out of our family vacation and lock her out of my home. This is the coldest she has ever seen me. Honestly, enough is enough.

 

Although she was diagnosed with ODD, no meds were prescribed. Perhaps she was calmer at that time because she has always smoked pot. This was her drug of choice.

I had no idea at the time.

 

When she did finally meet with us she did ask to come home. At first i was very hesitant because it seems like we go in circles and I cant do this anymore. I reminded her that being in MY home was a privilege and if she needed my help and support then she needs to meet my expectations and follow my house rules. No if ands or butts.

 

She wants to go to an Esthetics school. Which means I shell out $9K and more so that she can have a vehicle to get there. I made it clear that she didn't deserve anything. When I think she is turning a corner, she runs back.

 

She promised to change. She said she was not smoking. However she said she was talking to a kid who is 17 who is home schooled with ADHD and uses medical marijuana. I honestly was disappointed hearing this. But I agree with everyone here that she needs to learn from her mistakes.

 

I made it clear that I was not going to be taken advantage of again. If I help her and she screws me in any way she will be out of my house for good and she can figure our how to pay for her dreams.

 

I have more gray hair than I care for because of her. She has put me through a lot for no other reason than because she thinks she can dictate the rules and outcomes. I hate to say this but sometimes I wish I could fast forward my life to where she is out of my home.

 

We agreed to have her back. She turned on another cell phone so that I could not track her. Which is fine, she finally did something on her own. But I told her that when I call her I expect her to pick up. That was a condition.

 

We did register her in the school. However class begins Dec 5th. I told her she'd be drug tested 11/18. If its positive no school, no car. She insists she is not, but I really don't trust or believe her.

 

I will be putting together a contract that she will have to sign in regards to my home/vehicle rules. If she breaks it then out she will go.

 

Its sad that things have gotten this way, but my H and I work like dogs to provide for our kids. But I am not going to be disrespected and bullied into helping her.

 

ODD is hard to deal with. Each year the behavior and situations just got worse and worse. I was told that she'd grow out of it. But with a 17 year old BF she is taking 5 steps back. I am hoping that once she starts school, and is driving and feels like she is doing something with her life things will change.

 

Right now I am trying to maintain some kind of peace in my life and the minute she breaks that all bets are off.

Edited October 16, 2016 by jnel921

[jnel921]

Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry to hear of your struggles. I actually have a nephew who was diagnosed with ODD. It's incredibly difficult. My sister just had to admit him into a residential therapy center, where he is getting near constant therapies to try to help with the ODD. He is 13 though, so still a minor. Do you think that is something you would want to look into? Is your daughter receiving any therapies currently?

 

When my daughter was younger therapy was the only suggestion and that didn't work. The social workers and guidance counselors at school were always helping me. Middle School and HS were difficult as her grades were always up and down and I never knew until the final days if she was being promoted to the next grad or graduating.

 

Its like she loved living on the edge and didn't care how it affected me. She did get suspended from school for smoking pot on the school property and even got in trouble for verbally fighting with a teacher.

 

ODD means they don't want to follow rule and its tough. I have always tried to keep healthy boundaries and rules at home but she would always test my limit.

 

Right now at 19 she doesn't have to live with me. But as long as she is I have made her understand that if she has issues with my rules she will have to fend for herself.

 

I wish it was different. I feel she still lacks insight and remorse. If she doesn't grow up soon. No matter what I do to help push her out the door ultimately she will lose me because I feel so hurt that I just wouldn't want to deal with her.

 

She was seeing a therapist until recently but that therapist like the other got frustrated and has not returned my calls to schedule any appointments. That is very disappointing when therapists don't want to work with you.

[Miss Clavel]

what about the legal issues? in my state they have to be 21 before you are no longer financially responsible.

 

if they live at home and you make a single car insurance payment, here, you are responsible for any accident claims they have. some insurance will not pay a claim if the driver was under the influence at the time of the accident.

 

the car must be put in their name and they must purchase a money order with their own money to pay their own car insurance. anyone she hurts with her car is not going to go after her, she's broke, they are going to go after you, "deeper pockets".

 

if your daughter can get it together long enough to find a way to earn a living then i think you're done. she can get out and earn her own way.

 

i had the same problem with one of mine not answering the cell phone i paid for and i explained how much i loved her. how much i trusted her. and how i was NEVER not going to know where she was. ever. i told her that if she thought that i was ever going to have to call police, thinking she was missing, abducted of lying in a ditch and not be able to tell them where to look for her and how to contact her friends, she had another thing coming.

 

maybe you will have to, if you have any energy left, explain the facts of life to her. if you are going to smoke pot, roll a joint, don't use a pipe. if you are going to have sex, always use a condom. i took mine to the store in HS and showed them where the condoms are, which ones have spermicide. where they keep the morning after pills. while we were there i showed them how to purchase a MO and how to fill it out, where to buy the envelopes and stamps and where to mail the letter.

 

it might just be time for the practical side of life with someone you know for a fact is going to keep on "self-medicating.

 

poasters in this thread have said that she might need medication and it seems like she's found the medicine she wants. have you asked her what it does for her? why she chose marijuana? maybe explain the long term effects, esp in the ramifications of employment that requires drug testing.

 

i tell mine, you're acting dumb, try not to be stupid. if the goal is to get her out on her own, and not have her back, she's got get it together, find a job, stick to it, pay her rent and not get busted or go broke buying pot.

 

after all, every mother just wants to know, when her head hits the pillow that her child is safe. and we deserve that. whether she is happy and a functioning member of a civilized society is up to her.

 

however, the more you bring up the pot, the more fights you will have. try to ignore her drug use. as drugs go, it ain't major. except for the driving. do not buy her a car, do not put it in your name, do not pay for the insurance.

 

remind her, she has to get her own health insurance. if she moves out and you pay her rent she might be able to make a go of it, it might be cheaper then buying her a car and paying for her car and health insurance, besides, once she has only her own income to go on she should qualify for a student loan, food stamps and medicade.

[eightytwenty]

You sounds like an awesome Father. You try and try but yet get no where with her.

 

 

My mom is ODD. My grandparents have been fighting this all their life, and they still enable her, she's almost 50, she didn't even want me. Drugged up enough that she didn't know she was pregnant till she was 6 months along. Drives me up the wall and down it. My grandparents are great people but they enable. They take her bs, stay mad at her for a few days, then they help out. rinse, wash, and repeat.

 

 

My mother is a druggie, alcoholic, can't budget her money, hangs out with kids, and just a waste of lift. She just got out of jail again, and now needs a car. She was letting people borrow it for money so she in turn could buy more drugs.

 

 

Seeing all this, Living it, and having to hear about it. I would say sometimes you have to let them dig their own graves. She needs to hit rock bottom. She might have problems, but everyone nowadays use it as a excuse for their behavior, not how the world works. Make her own up to what she does, don't help out, don't lend the father support until she fixes herself. She's an adult, not a child you have to lead through life. If you continue this cycle then you'll be doing exactly what my grandparents are doing.

 

 

Just my 2 cents.