I am the OP's BS.

[BluesPower]

Lion makes some good points, but I think it is kind of harsh in some ways.

 

People have affairs, they just do. It's not right in any way but it does happen.

 

You wife was scared to tell the whole truth, for what ever reason, and she was stupid for doing that, but it is what it is.

 

Now, remember, I have been on both sides of this issue. But from what I have been reading from her posts is that she really is remorseful for what she has done. And, she also realizes what she has really done and how bad it is. But, Believe me, she does love you. Whether that is enough for stay is for you to decide, but if you don't trust anything else that she says, trust that she loves you.

 

For a while you will be in shock and that is normal for this situation. Just hang tough until your mind clears and you can start to think straight.

 

You can both over come this if you want to, the choice is yours. You don't have to decide in two days or two months or any particular time. Just take it one day at time.

[turnera]

Have you done any reading on affairs? The more you educate yourself, the more in control you will feel.

 

Have you been to your doctor about your inability to concentrate on work?

 

Have you told anyone? Right now, you need some strength and support from someone, family or best friend. I also suggested to her that she should offer to tell your parents/family what she did, so you can get some support that way, and also to help her REALLY get the humility she needs to make this work.

[LostinScience]

First, I hate what this has done to me.

 

Before the affair I was depressive yes. This comes from my genetics and from a severe event in my childhood that has left me with PTSD. But my wife was wonderful to me; always attentive, caring and compassionate, and she put up with my depressive episodes and tried to help me through them. As old friends drifted away, she was my constant companion and partner. She was a safe place, warm and comforting, and exactly what we both wanted in a partner.

 

Most of all, for all my depression and anxiety I was content with that life. I wan to go back in time and take myself by the collar and tell myself to enjoy that life while I still can.

 

Now, after all of this. After the affair. after discovering it myself and being continuously gaslit about the details, after she witnessed my pain and misery but went back underground with the affair. She told me it was emotional only, but it wasn't. She told me I was never her second choice, but in the heat of the affair she told the other man that I was. In the heat of the affair she would have done anything for him. She sexted him in our bed, while I slept, she did it in the car while I drove, she did it on Christmas day when we were at my grandparents' house (a family tradition I've maintained as long as I've been alive). When I originally found out, I asked about sex, and she lied to me.

 

The gaslighting is bad. the sexts in our house is horrible, the lies, and the false healing was awful. The very worst though is the hate. I can say that before this, I never carried true and unrelenting hate for a person. I goddamned do now. I hate him with as much passion as I can muster. If he was not married to someone innocent, if he did not have children, I would already have poisoned his life and burned his world around him. I would have called human resources and told them he'd been having an affair on company time using company resources. I would have threatened lawsuits unless they fired him. I would have called the pastor of every church in his area (he is very religious) and told them of the monster they had in their fold. I would have made sure his family knew every sick awful detail. I would have made his life a living hell.

 

I never wanted to be that^ person. This has made me that person. This is the worst of it.

 

Two days ago was essentially D-Day #3 for me. When I started to read infidelity forums I would see people post about D-Day 2 or 3 or 7, and think damn, why stay when it's obvious nothing is going to change?

 

Now I'm here, and I understand better. I am staying. I told her yesterday that I was considering leaving and the result in her was indescribable. God help me but I'm giving her another chance.

 

I have access to all devices and accounts, and in fact that's how I uncovered the real details of the affair.

 

I'm probably a fool for going on, but the chance that we could be as good or better than we were before is too valuable to me to not go for it.

 

My requirements for reconciliation are simple:

1.) Come to me with her problems, no matter how depressed or anxious I might seem. Something so few people seem to understand is that helping someone else with depression or anxiety *always* helps with your own.

2.) Obviously, never again with the cheating.

3.) Don't give up, even in the worst time.

4.) She needs to get help and work on herself.

 

And that's it. All I require.

[BluesPower]

I am really glad to hear it, I think you are just starting to think clearly.

 

And, you are not the only one that feels this way about a woman. When I found out about my wife's 20 addiction that was the primary cause of all of the hell that I had been through all those years, I was done. But once she got sober, and asked for another chance, for some reason I could not say no.

 

I felt the way you do, and sometimes worry I am still a fool for saying yes. So far though, so good.

 

Also, I understand D&A, I deal with it a lot and so does my wife. You have to make sure that you are on the right meds for all of that. Sometimes it takes some trial and error to find the one that works for you. But, it is worth the trouble, believe me. Also, it pays to try and exercise regularly because that always helps with depression.

 

I think you are making the right calls. Good luck and stay strong.

[Sub]

I understand the hate. It will come and go. But all of those things you said you would do if he wasn't married with kids....I don't think you would have if that was the case. The thought of it sounds great. You probably think he deserves it. But as irrational as this crap can make someone, you seem too pragmatic in the long run. I know you'll come to the realization that he's nothing to you. It doesn't seem that way - and God knows I'm curious what I would do if I saw or heard from the OM in my situation - but he has to live with his part, and look his wife and kids in the eye knowing it. You focus forward. Make new memories with your wife between whatever bad moments will come.

[merrmeade]

What struck me silent to your wayward wife's thread that I saw no point in responding was THIS.

 

I'm pleased to be able to communicate this to you...

 

IF part of *her reasoning* of NOT being completely honest and transparent was that she was 'so concerned' for YOUR mental health, because you had had issues with depression and suicide SINCE YOUR TEENS.....

 

That NOW it's not a good idea to tell you the truth about her affair?

 

HEY I WANTED TO SAY WAKE UP SUNSHINE!

 

IF this WW WAS so concerned for you at all then WHY HAVE AN AFFAIR AT ALL???

 

I call BS on that call of hers.

 

Guilt?

Mmmmm.

Now the other side is coming through...guilt and remorse are NOT shown by continuing the A long after D Day.

 

12 months longer?

Wow.

So much concern. None.

 

The fact you exposed also that she has never willingly come forth with information nor disclosures to you. That you had to find out yourself.

...

Lion Heart

wtf - I am TOTALLY with Lion Heart on this. What is all the freakin' sympathy for a WW who pretty much used LS to get sympathy and encouragement since mid-August for her suffering and guilt to move on with her life by lying to her supposedly emotionally crippled husband. Give me a g-damn break. I've read his posts now and he's got it all over her for life understanding and what people's actions mean. And all her excuses for lying? I could not understand all the buy-in because it was no different from any other cowardly WS rationalizing as needed to keep the affair going and/or as an excuse not to reveal any more.

 

Just ignore the pressure; THIS is your time, Lost. You have every right to be outraged and you owe nothing to anyone. Do what you need to have peace, ask what you need to know, demand what you need to read, check what you need to verify. Make no promises.

[drifter777]

You have made a decision for how you are going to move forward and that's great. At least you have a goal and a reason to keep trying to push through all of this. Good luck.

 

Whenever a BH expresses such vicious anger toward the OM my spider-sense starts tingling. The anger you feel for him is misplaced - it's your wife who did this. She alone made the decision to keep it going and keep it dirty. By trying to focus this on OM you are denying how angry you really are are at your wife and you won't be able to keep a lid on that forever. Keep this in mind going forward.

[Cephalopod]

 

Now I'm here, and I understand better. I am staying. I told her yesterday that I was considering leaving and the result in her was indescribable. God help me but I'm giving her another chance.

 

 

Oh good grief...

 

She plays you like a toy violin.

 

My advice to you LIS, is to inquire about codependency with a counselor and ask to be evaluated for it. Look, I have no problem with you choosing to stay with her, but you need to quit folding every time she has a meltdown. Seriously. You will never be able to tell when she is acting or when its for real.

 

Chicken Little you know?

[Osmium13]

I love a story with a happy ending

[road]

You have made a decision for how you are going to move forward and that's great. At least you have a goal and a reason to keep trying to push through all of this. Good luck.

 

Whenever a BH expresses such vicious anger toward the OM my spider-sense starts tingling. The anger you feel for him is misplaced - it's your wife who did this. She alone made the decision to keep it going and keep it dirty. By trying to focus this on OM you are denying how angry you really are are at your wife and you won't be able to keep a lid on that forever. Keep this in mind going forward.

 

There is no reason for a BH to forgive, let alone not feel anger towards the OM. The BH never needs too hating the OM.

 

 

You see the BH can forever be angry at the OM and yet can forgive his WW.

 

 

For the BH can not recover his marriage if he stays mad at his WW. The BH can forgive his WW while at the same time wishing the OM guest stars on the tv show 1,000 Ways To Die.

 

 

There are many reasons to forgive the WW.

 

 

There will never be any reason to forgive the OM.

 

 

It is all in the motivation for the BH. He will never be motivated to forgive the OM. At best the BH will eventually feel indifferent to the OM after a time.

[merrmeade]

First, I hate what this has done to me.

 

The very worst though is the hate. I can say that before this, I never carried true and unrelenting hate for a person. I goddamned do now. I hate him with as much passion as I can muster. If he was not married to someone innocent, if he did not have children, I would already have poisoned his life and burned his world around him. I would have called human resources and told them he'd been having an affair on company time using company resources. I would have threatened lawsuits unless they fired him. I would have called the pastor of every church in his area (he is very religious) and told them of the monster they had in their fold. I would have made sure his family knew every sick awful detail. I would have made his life a living hell.

 

I never wanted to be that^ person. This has made me that person. This is the worst of it.

He didn't do it in a vacuum; they played off each other. I'm sure you know that. It's a universal impulse for the BS to want to blame and hate the AP, I guess. But you have to think about it along with her part in it. I think I have better reasons than anyone to hate the OW because she's family and she really did a number on me, but really it's no different. You must have no contact with him either - for your own sanity.

[LostinScience]

He didn't do it in a vacuum; they played off each other. I'm sure you know that. It's a universal impulse for the BS to want to blame and hate the AP, I guess. But you have to think about it along with her part in it. I think I have better reasons than anyone to hate the OW because she's family and she really did a number on me, but really it's no different. You must have no contact with him either - for your own sanity.

 

 

Believe me, I know where this started. It is very likely that if my WW did not egg him on, nothing might have happened. Or it might have regardless, I'll really never know. You see this guy knew me back in our college days. I was not a faceless other to him.

 

My wife gets her punishment by seeing what this has done to me and to us. If she feels nothing and is acting, then it won't work out. I won't leave in that case, rather I'll show her the door. As for him, a disclosure letter is getting sent to his wife. He'll get no warning. He had almost two years to tell her. His chickens come home soon.

 

They are my rules now. I'm done being treated like a child. I step up and we move forward.

[aileD]

Oh good grief...

 

She plays you like a toy violin.

 

My advice to you LIS, is to inquire about codependency with a counselor and ask to be evaluated for it. Look, I have no problem with you choosing to stay with her, but you need to quit folding every time she has a meltdown. Seriously. You will never be able to tell when she is acting or when its for real.

 

Chicken Little you know?

 

Not every BS that stays with their WS is codependent.

[merrmeade]

My wife gets her punishment by seeing what this has done to me and to us. If she feels nothing and is acting, then it won't work out. I won't leave in that case, rather I'll show her the door.

That's exactly how I felt. I was determined that he would know everything I was going through, but I hate to tell you that in the end I realized he just would never really get it.

 

They don't have the ability to feel it or understand it. That's the whole point. They couldn't have done what they did - and kept doing it - otherwise.

 

But it IS possible that she will knock herself out to make it up to you the best way she does know how to do and that, in itself, can be meaningful. It's not like being married to a fully aware, clear-headed, mature, empathic adult—which is what I was seriously hoping for—but it can be meaningful and there can be happiness again.

[LostinScience]

Oh good grief...

 

She plays you like a toy violin.

 

My advice to you LIS, is to inquire about codependency with a counselor and ask to be evaluated for it. Look, I have no problem with you choosing to stay with her, but you need to quit folding every time she has a meltdown. Seriously. You will never be able to tell when she is acting or when its for real.

 

Chicken Little you know?

 

That's a good guess, but you're wrong. She plays the viola. It ain't no toy either, ya know. You eva look at viola prices? That ****'s expensive as hell. Wood and string man and they still want 4 large for that ****, *and*you have to buy your own friggin case! Crazy.

 

Seriously though, I'm somewhat perplexed at your insistence that I should treat my wife as an unredeemable jezebel who will only play me for... What exactly? She doesn't need my income to survive, she runs her own business at home and is successful enough to support herself. What would possibly be the endgame for this fantastical creature you describe?

 

Codependence? I think you might want to pick up a Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. My relationship is strained by not codependent. I'd suggest you read "Co-Dependency: An Examination of Underlying Assumptions" in the Journal of Mental Health Counseling, v13 n4 p449-58. Dr Myer makes some really excellent points on the factors that lead to and the pathology the typical co-dependent relationship.

 

What really worries me is the vitriol your post displays indicates that you had someone in your past hurt you so badly that you might be projecting, even if not consciously. I hope you found your solution, or are in the process.

 

I love my wife. My love is unconditional. That is very different from me being the doormat that I may be coming off as. The life with her could take many different form from full partnership in the world, to exes apart for our own good.

 

I can only hope my story ends well, and i hope yours does too.

[LostinScience]

That's exactly how I felt. I was determined that he would know everything I was going through, but I hate to tell you that in the end I realized he just would never really get it.

 

They don't have the ability to feel it or understand it. That's the whole point. They couldn't have done what they did - and kept doing it - otherwise.

 

But it IS possible that she will knock herself out to make it up to you the best way she does know how to do and that, in itself, can be meaningful. It's not like being married to a fully aware, clear-headed, mature, empathic adult—which is what I was seriously hoping for—but it can be meaningful and there can be happiness again.

 

What you are describing is someone with no empathy. If you married such a person than I am sorry.

 

The thing, I believe, that allows empathetic people to commit these awful transgressions is compartmentalization. I personally can't do it, but I understand how it can happen. They can put the awful in a separate box from the good. It takes therapy to understand and control that sort of behavior, and I will insist she gets it (starting tomorrow).

[merrmeade]

Believe me, I know where this started. It is very likely that if my WW did not egg him on, nothing might have happened. Or it might have regardless, I'll really never know. You see this guy knew me back in our college days. I was not a faceless other to him.

 

My wife gets her punishment by seeing what this has done to me and to us. If she feels nothing and is acting, then it won't work out. I won't leave in that case, rather I'll show her the door. As for him, a disclosure letter is getting sent to his wife. He'll get no warning. He had almost two years to tell her. His chickens come home soon.

 

They are my rules now. I'm done being treated like a child. I step up and we move forward.

I also just want to say that you sound awesome, which just makes me all the madder at your wife - and, believe me, I have been really mad at her from her very first post—and every one since. She's the one that's messed up, weak-minded and waffling despite her list of all your problems and interpretations of your state of mind.

 

And I do not think it makes any difference whether I point this out either. You don't need help understanding what's gone down.

 

I just hope SHE figures this out and counts herself really fortunate that you even consider giving her this chance.

[merrmeade]

What you are describing is someone with no empathy. If you married such a person than I am sorry.

 

The thing, I believe, that allows empathetic people to commit these awful transgressions is compartmentalization. I personally can't do it, but I understand how it can happen. They can put the awful in a separate box from the good. It takes therapy to understand and control that sort of behavior, and I will insist she gets it (starting tomorrow).

You go for it - all of it - and get what you deserve - for both your sakes.

[Bryanp]

Lost you sound like a really good and nice guy and your wife knows you very well.

If your wife knew that you would have divorced her if she engaged in a sexual affair do you honestly think she would have had the affair? I doubt it. My guess is that your wife knew that if she eventually got caught with her cheating and lying to you that you would eventually forgive her. This meant she really had nothing to lose by having her fun. What did she think would happen when she engaged in an affair. If the roles were reversed would she have been so accepting and forgiving as you have been?

 

I am sorry but your wife has shown clearly by her actions that she has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

[Buckeye2]

As for him, a disclosure letter is getting sent to his wife. He'll get no warning. He had almost two years to tell her. His chickens come home soon.

 

Yes he will get a warning. Your wife will tell him. He will try and intercept the letter.

 

It's all well and good to have all of her passwords but it's mainly symbolic. All having 100 passwords means is that you know of 100 ways to contact the OM man that she will never use.

 

 

The ways to contact him are too numerous to count. She could simply mail a letter to him that will arrive before your letter to his wife.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Buckeye2

[drifter777]

There is no reason for a BH to forgive, let alone not feel anger towards the OM. The BH never needs too hating the OM.

 

 

You see the BH can forever be angry at the OM and yet can forgive his WW.

 

 

For the BH can not recover his marriage if he stays mad at his WW. The BH can forgive his WW while at the same time wishing the OM guest stars on the tv show 1,000 Ways To Die.

 

 

There are many reasons to forgive the WW.

 

 

There will never be any reason to forgive the OM.

 

 

It is all in the motivation for the BH. He will never be motivated to forgive the OM. At best the BH will eventually feel indifferent to the OM after a time.

 

Yeah, you might hate the OM forever. You'll probably never forgive him because you have no relationship with him to reconcile.

 

But I don't agree with the jist of your statements. Early after d-day when a BH has this much vitriol for OM it is pretty much always a case of transference. He is overwhelmed with strong emotions and one easy release for his anger is the OM.

 

I don't care how anyone else feels about this because I know that for many men I'm right. I'm 30+ years out from d-day but if one of my wife's OM came to the house to say "Hi" I would physically attack him with a vengeance, but when I trigger it has nothing to do with him - it's all about my WW. It's all on her. The only reason I would attack the OM is because they had a hand (or something...) in all of this so I hate them on general principal but I do not hold them responsible in any way for what happened.

Edited September 22, 2016 by drifter777

[Lion Heart]

Well done LIS, you are beginning to gain some 'control' back over the situation at hand. It's difficult. I know this first hand. You just want the A to stop for real this time.

 

I truly hope it does.

 

The vigilance for BSs, which becomes hypervigilance after successive D Days, is a cruel state of existence.

 

It IS more about the lies and deceit. The disgusting things a WS does in the company of us. Thinking of sex with OP whilst playing happy families with us. It's the "right under your nose" stuff or the lying to your face. And us having no choice but to believe them for the sake of the marraige. For the sake of our family.

 

When I read it takes up to 2 years for a BS to fully realize everything? I couldn't believe it. Now I believe this to be so true. Longer for some. Shorter for those who choose to rugsweep themselves.

 

Your anger for the OM is displaced. It's your WW that betrayed you. I know the feeling of knowing the STBEXVWH from here was in an A with a Catholic Scripture teacher from my 3 children's Public School. Virtuous? Hell no! STBEXVWH whole family are of that religion and their behaviours towards the children and I were monstrous.

 

That all fell down in a comical circus of it's own doing.

 

You asked what your WW is avoiding or holding on to by staying.

Everything.

Her reputation.

Her false facade.

The safety of your relationship. Because IF you ended this M, she knows it would be a total embarrassment for her. Her OM doesn't really want her. She was his bit of fun on the side. The fantasy would be over.

 

I'm one for wide-spread exposure for truth and the inability of the WS to gain false sympathy. Luckily none of this WHs other flings HAD Hs. He was too chicken to predate on those women. The other BSs are the first I would've told. At the very fundamental root of this, is for them to know they are being ecposed to STDs. It's a potentially life threatening game WSs play by exposing their BSs to such diseases. WITHOUT their knowledge.

 

For you LIS I hope what you hope for yourself.

 

Ensuing D Days can be hell. But you KNOW the real woman you married now. Assimilate this knowledge as truth.

 

A saying that I found on LS was what I slapped myself in the face with after D Days 2-25 (he exposed that many OWs over 4 days, 9 months after D Day number 1 with the threat of a lie detector test - he did this to hide alot more in other sectors of our lives) ....

"Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me."

 

Reconciliation was hell for me. It was a false reconciliation IMO because the truth wasn't declared.

 

You have to be very clear WHAT YOUR deal breakers are.

You have to have the COURAGE to follow through on the consequences. Rules without consequences are just like a Marraige Certificate to a WS. A piece of paper not worth anything. Easy to screw up and throw away.

 

In preparation for future D Days, understand where you stand legally. The unconditional love wears pretty thin after rolling D Days IME.

 

Best wishes LIS

 

Lion Heart

[LostinScience]

Yes he will get a warning. Your wife will tell him. He will try and intercept the letter.

 

It's all well and good to have all of her passwords but it's mainly symbolic. All having 100 passwords means is that you know of 100 ways to contact the OM man that she will never use.

 

 

The ways to contact him are too numerous to count. She could simply mail a letter to him that will arrive before your letter to his wife.

 

 

She won't tell him, I will. I have a modicum of decency, and if the OM does he going to get a chance to tell his wife before we out him. Regardless of whether he does, a complete timeline with details gets sent to his wife. We do it together.

 

I've spent too long trying to save the OM's wife from this knowledge, at the same time my wife was trying to save me from the same. We were both wrong. I'll offer her my support if she wants it, and if she doesn't, then at least I've done the right thing. My wife is authoring the timeline to the OM's wife, and I'll get approval. This is something my wife has to face.

[LostinScience]

Correction to the above post. The OM will not be warned. I'll give him no chance to gaslight his wife before she learns the truth. I will answer her gently it she has questions I can answer, and if not, I will stay out of it and put the both of them in my past and keep them there, forever.

[turnera]

Phew! I thought I was going to have to have a talking to you! You never give a cheater the chance to spin their story to their important people! The first one that talks is usually the one people believe.