Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[TrustedthenBusted]

How long did it take you to "let it go"? Was it really a simple decision for you or had she earned enough trust over time to help you decide to let it go? I don't think anyone can just "let it go" this soon after d-day unless they are determined to sweep the whole thing under the rug.

 

I'd say it was about a year. And yes. One day I was at my desk spending way too much time looking at a blip on a "Find My Phone" screen when I realized how absolutely pathetic I was.

 

Had she earned my trust back? No. Not really, because I don't believe people can ever actually do that. At least not with me.

 

Had she been transparent? I suppose so. But who really knows?

 

Had she answered all my questions? yes. With the truth? Maybe. I mean how can I be sure?

 

 

And that's the whole point. For some people, there is nothing the WS can do to help. You have to decide if you can/want to live under the conditions you are faced with.

 

I didn't want to spend my time trying to catch a thief. I gave my wife all the rope she needs to hang herself if she wants to. Because what really matters is whether she wants to.

 

 

I don't judge anyone else's timetable for healing. But I do think playing sleuth for 18 months is a long time. Looking back, I can't believe I wastes as much time as I did on it.

[pteromom]

If she wants to cheat, she will find a way. All your spying and sleuthing and VARing is a waste of your energy.

 

You have to trust YOURSELF. Trust that if you find out she is cheating, you will handle it and you will be done. Trust that you will be ok no matter what she does.

 

Take that energy and put it into yourself. Work out. Get a new haircut. Buy some new clothes. Make some new friends. Get a hobby or two. Do something you've always wanted to do. Make HER worry a little for a change at why all of a sudden you are becoming this happy confident guy.

 

This can go one of two ways: She will cheat again and it will be over.

 

Or - she won't cheat again.

 

But what you are doing is toxic and doesn't lead to rebuilding trust and intimacy.

[BluesPower]

I could not read all of this post it is so similar to so many.

 

You know that she is still cheating on you, right? Somebody please let me know if he realizes that.

 

Divorce her now. She got caught, took it underground and has been cheating the whole time.

 

Guys, did I miss anything?

[Cephalopod]

OP cut the cord and file for divorce.

 

Your WW is acting just like mine did when I confronted her. It wasn't until I filed and she moved out that the truth of ALL the things she had been doing finally started coming out of the woodwork. Many people who had stood on the sidelines, saying nothing, finally came to me and told me most of the dirty details of all the mischief she had been up to in our short marriage. Prior to the last OM she had cheated on me with I came to find out she had slept with at least four other OMs during our marriage.

 

To say I was sick and disgusted doesn't even begin to describe it. But my exWW was just like yours: secretive about who she hung out with, never letting me see her cell phone, locking me out of her computer. Your WW and mine could be twins.

 

I would spare you the pain and devastation I went through. Let her go.

[Cephalopod]

I could not read all of this post it is so similar to so many.

 

You know that she is still cheating on you, right? Somebody please let me know if he realizes that.

 

Divorce her now. She got caught, took it underground and has been cheating the whole time.

 

Guys, did I miss anything?

 

Nope. I agree. She's still up to no good. She has just gotten better at hiding it.

 

Flaunting her panties? Naw...she has no remorse. A cheat and liar of the highest order.

[howtoproceed]

I appreciate all the advice and one new development is that out of the blue, my wife tried to set an appointment for IC for me to be followed by MC for both of us. The doctor's office wouldn't set the appointment since I'm over 18 but I have the number and I'll call tomorrow. I think that's a positive sign.

 

@doorstopper

 

If this doesn't work, either your wife doesn't give a dam or something else fish is going on. Separate individual counseling could also be called for; either for you, your wife or both of you. Again, the MC can arbitrate that with you and your wife.

 

By the sheer fact that your still together there is either some love left, or you are just being used. If no progress occurs, you'll know the answer.

 

That's exactly what I hope to get out of MC - someone to arbitrate on transparency. If the MC says "too bad for you howtoproceed - your wife has done enough" that may well end the marriage. The one thing I'm sure about is I want access to her emails, FB and phone.

 

 

@ididnotaskforit

 

And that my friend is why I had a revenge affair... Yup.

 

If your wife cares about you, she will stay after her own Dday.. If not ,oh well...

 

Immediately after D-Day, I thought about a RA quite a bit and then I read this article about why RA do not work - they lack the passion of a real affair. A RA is about getting even but the original affair is about passion and real desire. Now if one day I meet a woman I feel real desire for and it has nothing to do with my wife, I just might have an affair but it won't be for revenge.

 

@oldshirt

 

who on earth said that?

 

 

Mate guarding is an alpha behavior.

 

Cuckolding and/or allowing your mate the comfort and enjoyment of experiencing other sexual partners is a beta behavior.

 

It came up on a thread on TAM. The consensus there was an alpha couldn't be bothered mate-guarding; he'd just find another mate. I agree with you though and right after D-Day, I was acting alpha in the sense that I went after the OM and almost got arrested for it. Thank God no real violence took place - just a lot of threats and banging on his door until the police came. It was the one and only time I felt homicidal.

 

@kgcolonel

 

Were this me, I'd get an attorney and file....you don't have to follow through but filing is a way to show her, you're serious. Have you brought up the idea of a polygraph? Let her prove that

 

1. There was only one affair

2. It is indeed over.

3. While she'll allow you passwords on specific apps, that she's not using any other electronic method to "hook up".

4. That she's not seeking another affair.

 

I suggested a polygraph and she said no way. I was curious if this was her first affair. I never had any "gut" feeling; it was pure dumb luck that I found out. That lack of an instinct made me wonder.

 

Also, I'm the main bread winner in the family - I have a FT job and a PT job but she brings in about 35% - 40% of the household income, depending on how hard I work that week.

 

@oldshirt

 

The big $10,000 question you have to ask yourself here is is this all worth it? Can you live like this? Can you live always second-guessing where she is and what she is doing and wondering whether she is banging the dentist while she has the bite block and suction tubing hanging out her mouth.

 

I started the thread with this question: how long does the resentment and suspicion last because it feels like it's sucking the life out of me. As far as her having sex with the dentist while having her teeth cleaned, I've read stranger accounts than that of illicit trysts being culminated and right under everyone's nose. It could have happened.

 

One thing you did not specify is the VAR. Does she know you had it in her car. If not it sure as hell needs to be back in the car.

 

I put a VAR in her car about 8 months ago but she found it. So I wonder if its even effective anymore. But its back in there and hopefully better hidden.

 

@trustedorbusted

 

Let it go man. Today. Just stop. For your own sake.

 

Man I wish I could. I wish I could just get in my car and drive to the other side of the country and put it all out of my mind but I know nothing good would come of it - I'd just be back and she'd probably say I came crawling back if we ever argued. She's a nasty b!tch like that. But I got my licks in - I've said some really nasty things to her.

 

@pteromom

 

If she wants to cheat, she will find a way. All your spying and sleuthing and VARing is a waste of your energy.

 

That's exactly what she said to me last night but it's beside the point. I literally get panicky when she is on the phone and the only thing that calms me is knowing who she is texting.

 

@Bluespower

 

You know that she is still cheating on you, right? Somebody please let me know if he realizes that.

 

Divorce her now. She got caught, took it underground and has been cheating the whole time.

 

How do you know she's cheating on me? The panties in the purse? That's as close to a smoking gun as I can find right now. Seriously, how can I be sure?

[Grapesofwrath]

HTP: It is clear that you are really suffering right now. Truly in pain. I am sorry that you are going through this. Those feelings of nervousness, anxiety, and panic are soul-sucking to the extreme.

 

May I ask....do you love your wife still? Is this why you are trying to figure this all out, or is it more that you fear divorce and life after divorce?

 

Also, if you should get agreement on transparency during MC, it has to be effective immediately. Right at that moment. Otherwise, she will have time to delete/erase/change incriminating information and create other channels of communication that you cannot see. (If she has a work email address, this could be a place where communication continues undetected by you.)

[howtoproceed]

@grapesofwrath

 

May I ask....do you love your wife still? Is this why you are trying to figure this all out, or is it more that you fear divorce and life after divorce?

 

Yesterday after our huge fight, and after i went and made her (ok, begged her) to come to bed with me, she said she didn't feel loved. I think I love her; I have very strong emotions for me. We have two kids together. Having said that, the thought of another divorce terrifies because I know what would come. As far as life after I get over the pain of the divorce - right now it seems like heaven.

 

Also, if you should get agreement on transparency during MC, it has to be effective immediately. Right at that moment. Otherwise, she will have time to delete/erase/change incriminating information and create other channels of communication that you cannot see. (If she has a work email address, this could be a place where communication continues undetected by you.)

 

I have all her email and FB that I know of and I spend hours at a time pouring over her phone but she needs to unlock it for me.

 

I never thought of a work email but come to think of it, I'm sure she must have one.

[road]

I can only come up with two reasons for why she pulled the panties from her purse...

 

1. She was taunting you...you're in the midst of an unsettled argument and she sees herself as entitled to do whatever she has to inorder to stay "on top".

 

2. While you saw her car at the gym, do you know that she remained at the gym for a workout or that she parked her car there and got her "workout" somewhere else?

 

I dont want to stir the pot but i see no remorse or regret. I see someone who sees themselves as entitled and mean.

 

What was her initial reaction when you confronted her about the A 18 months ago?

 

This is why the find my phone must be turned on and a GPS hidden in her car.

[road]

I'd say it was about a year. And yes. One day I was at my desk spending way too much time looking at a blip on a "Find My Phone" screen when I realized how absolutely pathetic I was.

 

Had she earned my trust back? No. Not really, because I don't believe people can ever actually do that. At least not with me.

 

Had she been transparent? I suppose so. But who really knows?

 

Had she answered all my questions? yes. With the truth? Maybe. I mean how can I be sure?

 

 

And that's the whole point. For some people, there is nothing the WS can do to help. You have to decide if you can/want to live under the conditions you are faced with.

 

I didn't want to spend my time trying to catch a thief. I gave my wife all the rope she needs to hang herself if she wants to. Because what really matters is whether she wants to.

 

 

I don't judge anyone else's timetable for healing. But I do think playing sleuth for 18 months is a long time. Looking back, I can't believe I wastes as much time as I did on it.

 

What you failed to see is that being able to see her Where My Phone was made you able to calm yourself down.

 

 

It helped you to gain enough trust to no longer to need to verify she was not having an affair.

 

 

You are right she can cheat again.

 

 

And this time you may never find out.

 

 

And then what are you going to do because you have not caught her?

 

 

As I believe President Reagan said: trust but verify.

[ShatteredLady]

Can I ask what reason she gives you for not giving you her phone access code?

 

My WH wouldn't at the start. He kept going on about company secrets & rules. He doesn't work for the bloody secret service!! He realized how rediculous he was being & gave me the code. I've NEVER looked!!

 

My H is a computer geek & I'm a VERY basic user with limited abilities. It's all useless for me. I know for a fact he could so easily fool me with technology. It was pure accident that I found the damning conversations that I did.

 

 

I truly believe that you have to be a BS to truly get-it. Some WS seem to...after much work & YEARS of studying the subject. Mrs Adams on this forum is a good example.

Mostly it's one of those things in life that you really must live through to understand. Most guilty people are defensive & embarrased. It's human nature to throw blame around.

 

The DAY after my final discovery my WH accused me of "picking the scab & never letting it heal!! 24hours!!! He put me through a living hell for over 9 months & expected me to let it drop after 1 big conversation!! He's NOT a dumb man (apparently!)

 

 

Have you read "How to help your Spouce Heal" (The Linda McDonald book) it's free if you search for it online?

There are also 'fixed' articles at the top of the infidelity forum here. There's a great "Letter" that explains how the WS has the complete picture & the BS only has a few puzzle pieces. Until we can fill in the missing pieces our imaginations can be our worst enemy. She NEEDS to give you all the puzzle pieces...complete timeline, details (as you want), emotions, etc.

 

In my situation I didn't get the truth (??) or NC, sorrow & guilt until I threatened divorce & MEANT it.

 

I'm sorry that you're going through this. It's a nightmare. I still walk-up behind my H to see what's on his computer/phone screen. I still get that stomach sinking feeling. I wish it would go away.

[road]

OP, WW found the VAR.

 

 

Buy two new VAR and install one in WW car and one in the house where WW takes most of here calls.

 

 

Then throw the old one out. Leave it nonchalantly in top of the kitchen garbage pail so she she's it has been tossed.

[road]

As to hidden emails - install and hide a key logger on home PC. You'll find out if any exist and if WW checks her work emails from home you will get the password to that account.

[aileD]

Also if the phone is a newer in where you can put a fingerprint in to unlock, next time you have the phone, put your print in it.

 

This will only work if she already uses a print though

[ladydesigner]

It feels like a chronic disease and I do have really bad times, which come out of the blue.

 

When she is 55 - 60 - wow! So I'm not the only one who thinks like that. Its exactly what I was thinking. I'll feel "safe" only when she's too old to matter.

 

What if I just leave?

I was able to recover from my divorce to my first wife in just a few years. She's 43 so I have to wait like 12 years minimum? I 'm starting to think it's just not worth it.

 

 

If you are that hateful towards women, why not do both of yourselves a favor and end the marriage.

 

I am the opposite gender in this and it could be said the same for serial cheating men... just waiting long enough for them to get ED...

 

Truth of the matter is people are having sex late in age so I image infidelity can happen at anytime in life, even in the nursing home as someone suggested. Also infidelity doesn't have to be physical.

[ladydesigner]

What kind of phone does she have? If it's an iphone, back it up on your computer and in the code on the back up are the deleted text files.

[standtall]

@grapesofwrath

 

 

 

Yesterday after our huge fight, and after i went and made her (ok, begged her) to come to bed with me, she said she didn't feel loved. I think I love her; I have very strong emotions for me.

 

Well love and hate are a pair of bookends, so I would put much stock in your strong emotions as being "love". The true opposite of love is indifference, and I'm not hearing any of that in your posts.

 

She is still in control, and still stringing you along. She has not come clean.

 

I would give her an ultimatum..all access and transparency or divorce....and mean it.

[BluesPower]

Sorry to say bud, but up until a few months ago I was the guy screwing women like your wife.

 

No doubt, like I said, she has been sleeping with the AP continuously since she got caught.

 

It is so textbook, it almost goes without saying. Phone password, blah, blah... The panties, blah, on and on.

 

I can't believe no one came out and just told you this. I will bet real money that I am right, no doubt.

 

She is making a complete fool out of you and laughing about it with her boy friend.

 

She wants MC so she can still blow smoke up your butt and still have her affair. She is afraid that you are getting close to figuring it out, therefore, IC and MC.

 

Believe me or not, you will find out. And if MC says give him your password and phone now, you will find most everything you need to know.

 

Don't let her touch it until you have put the text recovery software on it and looked at all the texts that she has been sending to her boyfriend.

 

If MC does not say that then file for divorce and walk out of the counseling session. Not in that order, of course.

Edited September 21, 2016 by BluesPower

[harrybrown]

If she will not write you a timeline and diary of the A, you need to see your attorney and file.

 

She is not remorseful and she does not respect you.

 

forget about the IC and the MC.

 

She has not told you all that she did, is not remorseful and is still carrying on the A.

 

Has she been tested for stds?

[JS84]

Sounds like you've just been in limbo for 18 months. Just from reading your posts I'd recommend filing for divorce unless you plan on being in a marriage like that for the rest of your life, until she cheats again, or just winds up divorcing you when she gets sick of it. And that's if she's not still actively cheating on you, which again from what I've read in your posts is still possible.

 

If your wife was actually actively taking steps to help you recover from her affair you probably wouldn't be going through what you are at this point. 18 months isn't necessarily enough time to recover from an affair per se but based on how you describe your wife's attitude and unwillingness to repair the damage she's caused, I'd say how you're feeling 18 months out isn't much of a shock.

 

You need to ask yourself how much you're willing to put up with. It's one thing to have a wayward spouse who is truly remorseful. It's another completely to deal with a wayward spouse who isn't remorseful and you can't keep tabs on 24/7 on top of that.

 

You're spinning your wheels and damaging your mental health by continuing to be in this marriage in it's current state and I doubt your wife could care less beyond how inconvenient it is to her to have to deal with your paranoia. You should have been speaking to a divorce lawyer well over a year ago.

Edited September 22, 2016 by JS84

[TrustedthenBusted]

What you failed to see is that being able to see her Where My Phone was made you able to calm yourself down.

 

 

It helped you to gain enough trust to no longer to need to verify she was not having an affair.

 

 

You are right she can cheat again.

 

 

And this time you may never find out.

 

 

And then what are you going to do because you have not caught her?

 

 

As I believe President Reagan said: trust but verify.

 

 

Not exactly. It was more like " Hmmm...there's her car. It's sort of near the office, but sort of near that hotel too.... or maybe she's not even in it, and HE drove..." And on and on and on. Point being, you can drive yourself nuts with the what ifs. Is she REALLY driving home from LA, or is HE driving our car while she gives him a roadie? " Digging through her purse, looking for clues. Checking and rechecking her stories....

 

Asking for passwords to certain accounts while she can easily go generate new ones? Being content to look through her phone in an age of $20.00 prepaid burners? Nah.

 

You can spend a lot of time "verifying" absolutely nothing at all, and driving yourself bonkers in the process. To me, that is no way to live.

 

Could my wife cheat again and go undetected for the next decade? Yep. Perhaps. And so can yours, or anyone else's who is smart enough to cover their tracks.

 

What am I supposed to do? Spend the rest of my life worrying about it, or trying to prevent it? I think I'll just try to be a good husband, and enjoy my time on this rock, and let karma handle the rest.

Edited September 22, 2016 by TrustedthenBusted

[heartwhole]

I'm a BW and 18 months out from DD as well. I think you are still hyper-vigilant because your wife has not taken steps to show you that it's safe to begin trusting her again. So you're stuck waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

My husband wasn't instantly or effortlessly remorseful or humble or patient. After the fog wore off he was fully committed and feeling passionately for me, but he wanted to just forget about the affair and move on. I had to keep pressing for counseling, for him to read certain things, for him to address his self-absorption. Little by little he began to change, real character change. He's developed new coping skills and begun "adulting" a lot more than he has previously.

 

So I'm not in the same place you are. Yes, if anything seems "off" it sends me back to a primitive panic. But he is understanding and humble and patient when that happens. If he suddenly needs to go into work on a Saturday which is highly out of the norm, I simply say, "OK, please send me a picture while you're there," and he takes a split second to register that I'm feeling off about it and then says, "You know what? I'll take one of the kids with me" AND still sends a pic.

 

I've never done a VAR or GPS tracking or anything like that. I do require that he share his passwords with me, and I do the same for him. When I feel more unsettled and twitchy, I check his stuff more. When I feel more settled and there are no red flags, I don't check much.

 

That's where I am 18 months out. I'm sharing this to give you some perspective. I don't think I'm some kind of reconciliation expert or that we're out of the woods or anything like that, but I've seen continuous progress and gotten to the point where handling triggers and questions is something we do together and mostly with love and understanding. If he were still being indignant and stomping around like a toddler when I have understandable fears or questions, that would not be OK.

[flowergirl14]

My perspective is different. My wh wasn't transparent at All after his affair even though it was all written out. The affair at that point was over. I discovered it after the fact. I think it was self preservation to keep sleuthing. I knew in my head that he was duplicit, a cheater and liar. My heart said try, try, try. Try and save the family the marriage. Its a long one. He did cheat again. I almost could pinpoint the date it started. Only because of my sleuthing did I know this. On the surface he had become all transparent. Passwords, phone left out, emailed me, texted me.. blah blah blah. He just used different methods. When they arent transparent from the beginning. You have a very slim chance of recovery or they are still cheating. Personally, my self esteem has tanked. I am just living day to day trying to be present with things that make me happy.

[Friskyone4u]

OP

 

What Flower Girl just told you is what you need to understand. WHEN THEY ARE NOT TRANSPARANT FROM THE BEGINNING AND RESIST EVBERYTHING your prospects are not good for reconciliation.

 

And yes she can create new e mails, and generate other ways to cheat, but your alternative, which it seems one fellow here is telling you, is to walk around like the village idiot and be a wonderful husband and HOPE at some point you stumble upon something again. Now if you can get up in the morning, kiss her good bye, and be Mr. Nonchalant and not be concerned if she is still banging OM, then go for it. If not, then start taking some action to force her to make a decision as to whether or not she wants to remain married on YOUR TERMS NOT HERS. HER TERMS ARE SHE DOES WHAT SHE WANTS TO AND YOU SIT WITH YOUR thumb UP YOUR BUTT .

 

It's your call but in 18 months she apparently has done nothing to make you feel safe.

 

Filing for divorce will give her a finite timeline to get off the fence, and come clean in a verifiable manner. Your only alternative here is to walk around in a stupor waiting to see if the boom hits you in the head again

[goodyblue]

Omg. Who does this? Why are you carrying a dead marriage around like a rotting corpse? She obviously doesn't care and you are making yourself crazy. It's not worth it.