Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[OneLov]

If she always went in after 6 and all of a sudden the time or days change, then you'll have reason to believe she's not being honest. If she keeps going in at 6:15 you can verify if she's there. Start by calling the office and pretend like your seeking chiropractic services but you work until after six and see if they do that thing. If they say, no it's not our policy to do after-hours appointments--you'll have your answer.

[merrmeade]

This is really backwards and messed up. None of the details about these incidents matter if she's being defensive and indignant about your questions. What does she not get here about the fact that she did the affair to you. She has no humility and her remorse clearly isn't crippling (that's sarcastic). On the contrary, she sounds like she's got just one foot into this reconciliation.

 

OP, she DOES NOT GET IT and she has made no effort to get it. What has she read? How has she consoled you and expressed her concern at the triggers you're having. When does she blame herself?

 

My H's dalliances are in there with the all-time most disturbing because they were virtually all (all 5 - more?) with family members or friends. The gaslighting happened before I found out and when I'd question his behavior or ways of interacting with women. But once he was found out, he NEVER ONCE challenged my right or need to do whatever the hell I wanted, whenever, and however long with his accounts. He was an open book and did not complain once. In fact, it's been 4 years and he referred matter-of-factly to my reading his emails, clearly assuming I still do (I don't; they're pretty boring). He gets defensive and irrational when TALKING to me about any of his indiscretions, however, because of the shame of saying it out loud (too bad), but he never once objected to my digging. And I would stay up late into the night, spend hours on the computer, digging, digging And he knew it. Never objected, never even indicated he might.

 

Though this is only great in contrast to your situation he was and is also quite closed and hard to talk to. Nor did he initiate ways to help me cope or anticipate how things would affect me. But he's still shades better than this.

 

So howto, you should be the one acting outraged and indignant that she doesn't let - hell, encourage - you to satisfy your doubts and help you do that. She should be coming to YOU asking what she can do and offering creative ideas to help make it happen.

 

I think the VAR in her car is essential and make no apologies if she finds out or you tell her. It's her own fault, but she probably won't.

 

And I think you need to give some ultimatums. But don't be histrionic or pout; just follow through with them. You don't need to do all this work for her.

 

This is too much.

[howtoproceed]

This is just one of those hard nights all around. I'm up at 3:30 am obsessing over details. After D-Day, this used to happen all the time but then it got better and now its like a relapse.

 

I have my first IC tomorrow since all this happened.

 

She said one other thing that really pisses me off - but I didn't start screaming or fighting so that's an improvement. She said if I ever just show up at her work, she'll take out a restraining order. I don't think she's actually do that but it just makes me wonder now about her work.

[Lion Heart]

Living without trust in M is awful.

Add an affair and it's hell to through.

 

I am SO SURPRISED your WW is carrying on like this.

 

YOU NEED COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY.

LIKE yesterday!

 

ABSOLUTELY check with the chiro.

Heavens I've had a broken back and go to fewer appointments than your WW.

 

ABSOLUTELY check ANYTHING YOU WANT TO.

Why?

Because you cannot TRUST her.

 

I think she's most definitely up to something.

 

REALLY THINK about WHAT YOU will do when you find out.

 

IMHO if you try to R again then you're opting for a M where you'll have to turn a blind eye. The R is as false as the M was.

 

I'm also EXTREMELY surprised that you said that WW CONTROLS THE MONEY. So you have no way of checking things? What? Financially?

 

Many WSs are wayward in more ways than infidelity.

 

THIS financial arrangement REALLY NEEDS ALTERING. PRONTO.

 

THIS SHOULD ALSO BE 100% TRANSPARENT TO YOU.

If WW manages the finances, then who's to know WHAT she's planning?

 

Crikeys I separated the finances over 10y before D Day for financially wayward behaviours of his.

Woah boy! Did I find out mountains by LOOKING at his accounts from D Day omwards. Till I totally couldn't be bothered.

 

TRANSPARENCY IN ALL WAYS.

 

I'd separate my finances from hers asap. No matter what she says.

 

Lion Heart

[Survivedtothriving]

This is just one of those hard nights all around. I'm up at 3:30 am obsessing over details. After D-Day, this used to happen all the time but then it got better and now its like a relapse.

 

I have my first IC tomorrow since all this happened.

 

She said one other thing that really pisses me off - but I didn't start screaming or fighting so that's an improvement. She said if I ever just show up at her work, she'll take out a restraining order. I don't think she's actually do that but it just makes me wonder now about her work.

 

More threats usually means there is still something going on. She is still lying and you are still with her. She will not stop.

 

Restraining orders aren't easy to get without just cause. A husband showing up to his wife's work isn't a threat.

[Marc878]

Nope, she can get an RO without much evidence. Happens all the time.

 

You're in denial of who she is. Not marriage material.

 

You'd better let this go and find someone better.

[Survivedtothriving]

Nope, she can get an RO without much evidence. Happens all the time.

 

You're in denial of who she is. Not marriage material.

 

You'd better let this go and find someone better.

 

In my state, it was not easy to get. It took a gun and a police report. Then four visits to court.

[Friskyone4u]

How To,

 

You are ignoring what everyone is telling you. She has absolutely no remorse, has now told you that if you do not give her total privacy and bother to check up on her she will try to get you in legal trouble. Threatening you on what happens if you do anything is kicking you in the teeth again. She has just told you that you better not interfere with what she wants to do.

 

And the first thing that should change is why you do not have a clue on how money is being spent. I would not describe you as some have as a "cuckold" because you obviously are not participating with enjoyment with this, but you ARE in a cuckold lifestyle in that she controls the entire narrative.

 

I do not know what advice anyone can give you if you cannot bull your neck and file for divorce. I will tell you again that you can read as many books on infidelity as you want to, and they will almost all tell you that when a WW refuses or resists to be totally transparent, and resist and feels like she is being punished for HER cheating by some consequences, that your chances of reconciling drop dramatically. Your wife is aggressively resisting and basically telling to to accept what she does, and do what she wants.

 

Good luck. If you do not change tactics and put on your football helmet and go on the offensive her you will remain in the open marriage you are now in

[howtoproceed]

What's confusing though is she is also tender; she kisses me goodnight, she kisses me goodbye, we sleep in spoons, she's friendly with my mom and calls her mom. We hold hands all the time. I really want to believe and trust her but ***** like finding her panties in her purse or calling the doctors office when she should be there and getting a recording that says they are closed messes with my head. And then when I ask her about it, she tells me I'm crazy and she's tired of it and I shouldn't be checking up on her.

 

Recently, for like the past few months, I've been fantasizing about just leaving. I could do it too. Just pack a bag and leave.

[merrmeade]

If you don't get from what Frisky wrote how bad your odds for a successful R are then you must want to suffer. It's like you and she are struggling in opposite directions still tied together.

 

She sees only your need for IC and fails to recognize her own character issues that allow her to cheat AND abuse you. She berates, controls and aggressively keeps you on the defensive. Where's the remorseful, empathic spouse, hoping and attentively working at lessening the pain of your recovery by listening, apologizing and disclosing? You don't have any aspect of such a person in your wife! She lives for herself and makes rules for both of you.

 

Do you think you will change her by being pathetic? You will not; she is impervious to your pain, even angered by it.

 

You need to get away from her and this hell youre trapped in. And taking such a stand for yourself will be the first and ONLY step you've taken that grabs her attention and makes her wonder if maybe there is something here worth keeping.

[merrmeade]

What's confusing though is she is also tender; she kisses me goodnight, she kisses me goodbye, we sleep in spoons, she's friendly with my mom and calls her mom. We hold hands all the time. I really want to believe and trust her but ***** like finding her panties in her purse or calling the doctors office when she should be there and getting a recording that says they are closed messes with my head. And then when I ask her about it, she tells me I'm crazy and she's tired of it and I shouldn't be checking up on her.

 

Recently, for like the past few months, I've been fantasizing about just leaving. I could do it too. Just pack a bag and leave.

Well, sounds like all that tenderness, goodnight/goodbye kissing, spooning, 'mom' fawning and hand-holding is working perfectly. She's got you exactly where she needs you to be for her to keep on making the rules - or breaking them if she wants. I mean, it's a little taxing for her since occasionally you dare to question her iron-clad control of your life. Well, just be sweeter and give more sex. And if that doesn't shut you up, then she'll chastise you for raising questions and trying to breach her privacy. It it's pretty easy to get you back in line and retrieve the status quo - her in complete dominance; you in fearful submission.

[merrmeade]

... makes her wonder if maybe there is something here worth keeping.

correction:I can see she actually does want to keep you for some reason. She gets some benefit but just needs to keep you from questioning her activities and behavior and make sure you do everything her way.

 

What is that benefit? Income? Social status?

 

Sorry honey, but I do not believei that her love for you is the reason she's being so nice. Think about it, howto: If it was pure love, would she be so dismissive of your sensibilities?

[Grapesofwrath]

What's confusing though is she is also tender; she kisses me goodnight, she kisses me goodbye, we sleep in spoons, she's friendly with my mom and calls her mom. We hold hands all the time. I really want to believe and trust her but ***** like finding her panties in her purse or calling the doctors office when she should be there and getting a recording that says they are closed messes with my head. And then when I ask her about it, she tells me I'm crazy and she's tired of it and I shouldn't be checking up on her.

 

Recently, for like the past few months, I've been fantasizing about just leaving. I could do it too. Just pack a bag and leave.

 

Howto: I can see how this would be confusing. If you are someone who is not capable of compartmentalizing, it's hard to imagine how it's possible to show affection to someone while also being cruel to them. It does seem likely that your WW may be cheating again, but we don't know that for sure. What we do know for sure is that she is callous toward your feelings and meets your pain with anger. This is not a new development.

 

If I understand your description, she was not initially remorseful but has now grown weary of your continual monitoring. She was never truly remorseful. She would prefer to have all this swept under the rug so she doesn't have to deal with the consequences of her actions. Namely that you are in pain and no longer trust her. Is that okay with you? Whether she is still cheating or not, is it okay with you to be married to someone who does not accept responsibility for the messes that she creates? Does not attend to your feelings? Threatens you with legal action if you continue to act on the pain you feel?

 

p.s. These pages are full of stories of wayward spouses who continued to be affectionate and sexual with the BS. Happens all the time.

[BluesPower]

I don't know if OP will find out during the length of this thread or not.

 

 

I guarantee that his wife is sleeping with the same OM or another one with out a doubt.

[Miss Clavel]

What's confusing though is she is also tender; she kisses me goodnight, she kisses me goodbye, we sleep in spoons, she's friendly with my mom and calls her mom. We hold hands all the time. I really want to believe and trust her but ***** like finding her panties in her purse or calling the doctors office when she should be there and getting a recording that says they are closed messes with my head. And then when I ask her about it, she tells me I'm crazy and she's tired of it and I shouldn't be checking up on her.

 

Recently, for like the past few months, I've been fantasizing about just leaving. I could do it too. Just pack a bag and leave.

 

she does this to "slop sugar", it's not the same as real faith, trust and fidelity.

 

why should you leave? let her leave? if you do go, take everything valuable, that's yours. stop putting money in the joint account. stop all the credit cards that are in both your names.

 

she might have taken her panties off before she went to workout. she might have parked her car at the gym and went in the front door and out the back. then back in the back and out the front. oops, panties.

 

find my phone only tells you where the phone is. i learned this from the orphans, they would leave the phone where they wanted me to think they were and go somewhere else.

 

why waste all your time on trying to GET HER to behave in married trustworthy manner. cuz, dude, it's beneath you. you CAN"T make her do anything she doesn't want to do. she doesn't want to put your mind at ease. she doesn't want to reassure you that she understands how badly she hurt you. she doesn't want you have complete peace of mind. cuz she doesn't feel like it!! she doesn't give a damn how you feel, only that you're bothering her with your annoying pesky insecurity.

 

saying, "the affair wasn't my fault because i didn't know he was married" is moronic, childish and worthy of top billing in the cheaters hall of fame.

 

as for the chiropractor's answer phone being on while she was there, either she's banging him, she went in the front door and out the back, or he set the phone as she arrived because HE is not taking any more calls or any more patients after 600pm. the only way to know is to ASK her and since she ain't telling, i wouldn't tell her that i was no longer depositing my money in OUR account and im canceling joint credit cards and starting a new one of my own. i wouldn't tell her that i moved my s*hit out of the safety deposti box, our savings and my 401K either.

 

if she asks you, wtf? tell her its' so ANNOYING all her questions, it's to tiring dealing with someone that doesn't TRUST you. if she asks why you're not home and not at work(which you can be damn sure i'd be "missing' ever night of the week)tell her, she's ANNOYING you with all her questions and suspicions.

 

it's not that you will stop caring about her, it's just that you will start caring about yourself.

[NTV]

There was a line somewhere that was used once as a standard for defining evil. Pretty sure that if it was still in use....

Edited September 30, 2016 by NTV
Grammar!

[merrmeade]

Interesting differences in POV by Grapes of wrath and NTV.

 

So is she compartmentalizing (GOW) or just plain evil (NTV)?

[Survivedtothriving]

What's confusing though is she is also tender; she kisses me goodnight, she kisses me goodbye, we sleep in spoons, she's friendly with my mom and calls her mom. We hold hands all the time. I really want to believe and trust her but ***** like finding her panties in her purse or calling the doctors office when she should be there and getting a recording that says they are closed messes with my head. And then when I ask her about it, she tells me I'm crazy and she's tired of it and I shouldn't be checking up on her.

 

Recently, for like the past few months, I've been fantasizing about just leaving. I could do it too. Just pack a bag and leave.

 

This is almost exactly the way my wife acted in my affair. She still loved me, we still had sex and things were kind of like normal. But I could tell she was off and any time I asked her if she was cheating, she got defensive and turned it on me.

 

You haven't answered the question, why bother staying with her after 18 months of lies? Are you that afraid to divorce a woman who is running all over you to make herself happy? This situation will not get better or change until you change it. Take action by securing your finances and then get a lawyer. It's time to show her you mean business. Don't threaten her with leaving, actually leave. If she stops the affair then, maybe you have a chance. But, your marriage may be too broken already. You will never trust her fully again. That I can say from experience.

[bubbaganoosh]

[quote=howtoproceed;7071379

 

Recently, for like the past few months, I've been fantasizing about just leaving. I could do it too. Just pack a bag and leave.

 

Wrong! You didn't cheat she did. Now you think about grabbing a bag and moving out? Why? Why should you be the one moving out?

 

This is why your on the losing end of the battle and walking the floors all night with no sleep.

 

You either take the bull by the horns and get to the bottom of this and if she wont budge then you grab a bag, hand it to her and TELL HER to pack up and not to come back until she's ready to be honest with you.

 

Honestly I think you would be crazy to take her back. She has no intentions of being honest and as long as she can continue to string you along knowing that you'll do nothing about it then this is what you get.

[howtoproceed]

I must sound like a broken record but we just had another fight about her stupid phone. Yesterday, I caught a glimpse of her phone log and saw a "marijan" and it was bugging me ever since. I lost sleep over it and its been on my mind all day. So finally I asked if she could unlock the phone and she got angry. I don't get why she needs to password protect her phone but usually when I ask, she opens it. Now she won't. It's maddening.

[Friskyone4u]

It does sound like a broken record because she is still cheating and is not going to tell you squat.

She has absolutely no fear that she cannot back you down and now even refuses to let you see the phone when you ask, much less be transparent.

 

Now you MUST have some intelligence to be able to communicate to this forum, so you tell me why on earth she would after what she has done want to keep you totally clueless on what she is doing and who she is interacting with. As others have said, you must in some capacity be enjoying this drama because she has you spinning in circles and you are still playing ostrich and have your head in the sand.

 

So put your thinking cap on and come up with something that makes any sense as to why she refuses to do anything to make you feel safe and is hiding everything she is still doing. Notice I said she is still doing it.

 

This is not confusing at all. It IS perplexing to anyone reading this how you cannot get out of total paralysis. If your best buddy or brother told you this story would you advise them to do what you are doing.???? I hope not.

 

And lastly here is one other thing that is confusing. Her ability to lie on the bed and spread her legs for you has absolutely nothing to do with what she is doing with other man or men. She has proven she is capable of com[partmentalizing this and manipulating you like a toy. So get that out of your head about how loving she is. You are so easy for her it is not even hard.

[merrmeade]

I must sound like a broken record but we just had another fight about her stupid phone. Yesterday, I caught a glimpse of her phone log and saw a "marijan" and it was bugging me ever since. I lost sleep over it and its been on my mind all day. So finally I asked if she could unlock the phone and she got angry. I don't get why she needs to password protect her phone but usually when I ask, she opens it. Now she won't. It's maddening.

It's more than maddening. It's counter-productive, even anti-reconciliation. You read the recommended books, didn't you? You must realize by now they all say pretty much the same thing.

 

Below is a typical list. See if she's doing ANY of the items on the list. Your assignment is to tick off the list - without excuses or maybes - which ones she does or doesn't do. (I added the "S/" to keep it relevant.

 

In order for your marriage to successfully survive tthese are some things that your spouse must do:

1. S/He must be totally honest with you about everything
   
2. S/He must answer every question that you ask truthfully and fully.
   
3. S/He must do everything in his power to prove to you that you are the one that he wants to be with.
   
4. S/He must prove his love to you...he must be patient, gentle, compassionate and understanding.
   
5. S/He must feel your pain.
   
6. S/He must fully understand the devastation that s/he caused you.
   
7. S/He must accept full responsibility for his/her actions.
   
8. S/He must stop all contact with OP and not try to protect them.
   
9. S/He must reassure you that it is OK to ask questions.
   
10. S/He must reassure you that you will not [be] driven away by doing the things that are necessary to heal.
    
11. S/He must recognize when your struggling or experiencing a trigger and comfort you.
    
12. S/He must be able to tell you how sorry s/he is and show you.
    
13. S/He must re-enforce to you, that you are not responsible.
    
14. S/He must put his own feelings of guilt and shame aside and help you heal first.
    
15. S/He must reconnect emotionally, mentally, and physically with you and stay connected.
    
16. S/He must work on rebuilding trust. No secrets. No privacy.
    
17. S/He must be willing to seek counseling.
    
18. S/He must learn what is and is not acceptable when communicating with the opposite sex...s/he must establish boundaries and not cross them.
    

Here is a list of things that you must do:

1. Give the necessary time to prove [your spouse's] love and commitment to you.
   
2. Be open with your feelings.
   
3. Ask the questions that are important to you.
   
4. Don't be afraid that you will drive [your spouse] away while you are trying to heal.
   
5. Stop blaming yourself for your spouse's actions. You are in no way responsible...even if you are Attila the Hun!
   
6. You must be able to let [your spouse] connect with you. (this one takes time)
   
7. You must continue checking up on [your spouse] in order to...rebuild trust.
   
8. You must be willing to seek counseling so that you do not get stuck in one of the stages of recovery such as anger or depression.

[S2B]

I must sound like a broken record but we just had another fight about her stupid phone. Yesterday, I caught a glimpse of her phone log and saw a "marijan" and it was bugging me ever since. I lost sleep over it and its been on my mind all day. So finally I asked if she could unlock the phone and she got angry. I don't get why she needs to password protect her phone but usually when I ask, she opens it. Now she won't. It's maddening.

 

You should be mad! You should be so mad that you invoke consequences for her.

 

She isn't OFFERING you peace of mind? She's not transparent and telling you everything she does and everyone she contacts? No deal.

 

She's blown your world up and she should be offering to repair the damage SHE has caused! If she's not doing all that and more... Then she's still trying to cheat you out of a decent marriage - and that shouldn't work for anyone trying to be married.

 

You want her to change? File divorce papers! That will show you if she intends to repair the damage to the M.

 

Stop waiting for her to grow a conscience - take action = that means file and make it real.

[howtoproceed]

@merrmeade

 

Are you kidding with that list?

I can't honestly say she does any of those thing.

 

What she does is hold my hand, kiss me goodbye, kiss me goodnight, hold me while we sleep, give me sex. The affair is a closed topic. Asking things like, can I see your phone makes her angry.

 

Consensus wise, affair or not, I just don't get why we would have this kind of secret. Even if she never cheated, why?

 

Its another sleepless night and she's sleeping like a baby.

 

And I'm starting to drink too much wine.

Edited October 7, 2016 by howtoproceed

[S2B]

 

How do you know she's cheating on me? The panties in the purse? That's as close to a smoking gun as I can find right now. Seriously, how can I be sure?

 

Really? I'm old. I'm a woman. I've had many wild years.

 

Panties in my purse means I had some hidden fun with a man. Means they were likely soaked... Too wet to wear afterwards.

 

Your head is in the sand! Yes, she's still cheating.

 

Dude - start doing things to protect yourself - she is planning to screw you over big time.

 

Stop being nice to her - she's still cheating!

 

You are getting resistance from her because she wants to continue her affair and she wants you to butt out.

 

And curb the drinks - you need a clear mind.

Edited October 7, 2016 by S2B