Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[Mr. Lucky]

She said she didn't want me there because her coworkers wouldn't like me and she has to work with them.

 

Wow, I thought she was going to say something innocuous like "you wouldn't enjoy it". But "they wouldn't like" you ?

 

As has already been said many times - cold and calculated...

 

Mr. Lucky

[merrmeade]

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do except I know I'll be up late again unable to sleep. I guess I'll watch some TV.

 

I can't but wonder if I'm overreacting. She said she didn't want me there because her coworkers wouldn't like me and she has to work with them.

 

But then there is the lie - it was the first words out of her mouth, an elaborate lie about how her coworker called her at the last minute to meet 10 of them.

 

And then when she got caught in the lie, her belligerence and annoyance and I don't even have a word to put on it. It's just keeping me up.

Been there, done that. Listen, howtoproceed: This is Gaslighting 101. She gives you all kinds of interpretations for her highly suspect behavior and blatant exclusion of you, then abuses you for having a problem with it and questioning her explanation. Classic gaslighting. And you are just so amenable to it with your "I can't but wonder if I'm overreacting."

 

But don't feel like you're the only one or your wife is the worst (though this is so blatant and so public, actually maybe it is).

 

My husband doesn't readily think to include me if someone else hasn't.

My husband just reacted with indignation when I questioned his response to a client in a text message.

You see the pattern.

 

Cheaters - past, present and future - have to have this mindset. And their spouses have to be gullible, trusting pushovers for them to continue believing their own bullsh-t.

 

Look, at some point you have to realize that she is not the person you thought she was, and you are being hung out to dry by this person who - I'm so sorry to say - is making a colossal public fool of you.

[Friskyone4u]

Well said! It's also what I'm thinking but she acting like I'm being an ******* for being pissed off about not being included. I'm really glad I'm not the only one thinking this. I explicitly told her when she brought it up that I wanted to go and that was the last I heard about.

 

What stopped her from arguing that not including me was "no big deal" was the lie. As soon as she walked in, the first thing out of her mouth was a lie. She said he coworker called her at the last minute and told her to come to the restaurant and insisted on that story. Then I checked her phone and there were no phone calls, text messages or emails so its a lie - either she has a secret account or she planned all along on not taking me. When I put it like that, she sighed like I was just beyond reasoning with and walked away.

 

Its to bad because last night was nice. We had sex and she fell asleep in my arms. I'm just trying to come up with something positive to explain her behavior but it really comes back to:

 

1. There was someone there she didn't want me to meet

2. Like froggs21 just said: It shows you are not important in her life....those who are important were there.

 

Can anyone suggest a 3rd possibility that puts her in a better light?

I just can't think of a single thing.

 

 

How To,

 

We know and you should too that her continued lying shows lack of respect. but my bet since this restaurant was minutes from your house was that there was a person there with a penis that she did not want you around for any reason unless this was ALL women, which i guess you have no way of knowing. And you know you cannot believe her.

 

How do you heal a relationship where lying about something simple like this is not big deal to her.

 

The fact is she has gotten away so far with the infidelity with no real consequences. And she does NOT believe there is any threat you will leave if things do not change. until she actually believes that this will continue.

 

Please forget the SEX. She is "buying' you off and it is working. The primary need for most men in a relationship is sex, and she knows that. She lies, and smooths it over with sex.

 

There is no other reasons for her not telling you about this. SHE JUST DID NOT WANT TO. Please read that again

[heartwhole]

Even if there's no nefarious reason (another man she's interested in/seeing) she didn't want you there, the important part is that she didn't want you there. Why wouldn't a wife want her husband to share in her life, to meet the people she sees everyday, etc?

 

I think it would be useful for you to spend some time visualizing what a healthy and fulfilling marriage would look like. First and foremost, I bet it would involve a wife who wants to share her life with you.

 

I also think it would be useful for you to try to get an objective sense of how likely she is to change into a wife who wants to share her life with you, and who will therefore be empathetic, giving, etc. Was she ever a selfless person who included you happily and "showed you off" to others? Or has she always been self-absorbed, the kind of person who blames others for her problems and only feels content if she can paint herself as the victim?

[Grapesofwrath]

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do except I know I'll be up late again unable to sleep. I guess I'll watch some TV.

 

I can't but wonder if I'm overreacting. She said she didn't want me there because her coworkers wouldn't like me and she has to work with them.

 

But then there is the lie - it was the first words out of her mouth, an elaborate lie about how her coworker called her at the last minute to meet 10 of them.

 

And then when she got caught in the lie, her belligerence and annoyance and I don't even have a word to put on it. It's just keeping me up.

 

Re: the bolded above...Ouch. What a hurtful thing to say. See how she shifts the blame on to you? This is Gaslighting, Howto, plain and simple. See how she gets angry at you when she is caught in her lie? More gaslighting.

 

She implies that she had to exclude you because you are unlikable and she didn't want to introduce you to her coworkers. She assumes you are so unlikable that they will see it immediately and it will embarrass her.

 

Let's once again run this imaginary scenario: Everything is fine at home. She gets a spontaneous text after church to meet for a birthday gathering with her coworkers. She is concerned that you and her coworkers will not get along well, so she chooses to exclude you from the gathering. She chooses them over you. She makes the decision to spend her birthday with some relative strangers (new coworkers) instead of her spouse and family because she thinks this new group of colleagues will not like you. And she drags her kids along to provide a veil of propriety to the whole thing.

 

I wonder what lie she told to them to explain your absence. How do you even look at her when she treats you like this?

 

One of the classic signs of chronic emotional/mental abuse is that the victim blames him/herself and denies his/her feelings in order to give the abuser the benefit of the doubt. Stop doing this. Stop doing this now. You are not over-reacting. If anything, you are under-reacting. Wake up, howto.

[dreamingoftigers]

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do except I know I'll be up late again unable to sleep. I guess I'll watch some TV.

 

I can't but wonder if I'm overreacting. She said she didn't want me there because her coworkers wouldn't like me and she has to work with them.

 

But then there is the lie - it was the first words out of her mouth, an elaborate lie about how her coworker called her at the last minute to meet 10 of them.

 

And then when she got caught in the lie, her belligerence and annoyance and I don't even have a word to put on it. It's just keeping me up.

 

I think you are under reacting probably because you are scared that you will overreact.

 

And sorry for the confusion earlier, I thought her OM was the co-worker, but I mixed up with another thread.

[aileD]

I'm in disbelief. I mean. My husband was a complete ******* to me during his affair. But he never once uttered a crappy word about me to anyone else (minus his OW I assume)...no one in or family/social circle knew what was going on at the time and we went to various events together. I know for a fact that even during the affair had someone objected to me being somewheee, that he wouldn't have gone at all rather than go alone. And now? We are a team there is no way this would ever happen

 

What does this say ? That your wife does not talk highly of you at work. Why else would her work friends not like you? And to TELL you that? Cruel.

 

Unless it's all a lie right? And if the LIE was as brutal as "no one will like you"...then imagine how much more brutal the truth is

 

 

Smh

[howtoproceed]

@Friskyone4u

 

We know and you should too that her continued lying shows lack of respect. but my bet since this restaurant was minutes from your house was that there was a person there with a penis that she did not want you around for any reason unless this was ALL women, which i guess you have no way of knowing. And you know you cannot believe her.

 

There were men and women there - which is why a spontaneous get together seemed unlikely. I know because they posted pictures on FB and they all said they had a great time.

 

Actually she did mention the party last week and I said I wanted to go and she never mentioned it again - until yesterday when she said her friend called her at the last minute to go. As ridiculous as that sounds, she would have kept to that story until her dying day. It was only her phone log that showed she was lying.

 

@heartwhole

 

Or has she always been self-absorbed, the kind of person who blames others for her problems and only feels content if she can paint herself as the victim?

 

Very self absorbed and very much concerned about her looks starting to fade. I mean she looks great for a 44 y/o but I think she wants to look like a 34 y/o. Its funny you mention acting the victim because thats what I said after I caught her in a lie. First she got angry then she just sat there like stone, like she I was this great burden. I said she was acting the victim and she got angry - she said I'm not a victim. It touched a nerve calling her a victim.

 

@grapesofwrath

 

One of the classic signs of chronic emotional/mental abuse is that the victim blames him/herself and denies his/her feelings in order to give the abuser the benefit of the doubt. Stop doing this. Stop doing this now. You are not over-reacting. If anything, you are under-reacting. Wake up, howto.

 

I write much calmer than I behave so keep that in mind. There was a lot of screaming and threats and last night I was up at 3 a.m. and this sudden rage came over me and I threw a cup that hit a clock on the wall and it fell and shattered. That must have woke her up - she slept with my daughter last night - and I just left the mess there for her to wake up to and clean. Plus I did follow through on a threat and quit my part-time job by email and copied her on it. Everyone is suffering here - not just me - and I hate say it but I'm the one making sure of that. I don't want to come across as a punching bag because I punch back - figuratively speaking.

 

aileD

 

What does this say ? That your wife does not talk highly of you at work. Why else would her work friends not like you? And to TELL you that? Cruel.

 

It was cruel because at that point I hadn't started in with the yelling, name-calling and threats. I was just questioning her like who was there, why didn't you call me ... and then she was like a lot of people were there and we had a great time, which set me off.

[merrmeade]

howtoproceed, your wife reminds me of my sister-in-law, the OW my husband had an affair with. I'd loved her as a sister and friend and so felt deeply traumatized by the betrayal of two people I'd trusted. Her reaction, however, was like your wife's - twisted everything that happened so that I was the perpetrator of disturbing actions/words that ruined everything and hurt everybody.

 

And you are like me, willing to look at all sides of an issue, how and why others see things a certain and you feel responsible for everything that happens. But, htp, THAT mindset is dangerously vulnerable to manipulation by the reality twisters that I think your wife and my SIL are. They need to blame others and make themselves the victims BUT they can by no means see how they do this.

 

What is hard for you to accept was/is also hard for me to accept: Nothing you can say or do will change this aspect of her world view. Your telling her she's not a victim will sound like another language to her. SHE WON'T GET IT and you have to give up needing for her to get it.

 

Because what I see happening in your case is that she will continue to blame you and make you out to be vitriolic (my SIL's favorite word) and uncontrollable.

 

At the very least, accept that - right now - she is not in a position to absorb her responsibility for whatever reason. She will not understand your anger and will instead condemn it and report it as something else.

 

I don't remember - did you get a lawyer? If not, it's time. You can always decide not to use him/her, but you need to protect yourself yesterday from this crazy, dangerous person you're living with.

[merrmeade]

What I mean is that you need an objective third party, who also knows the legal ramifications, to hear ALL the details of what happened and how things are playing out now and tell you what the dangers are if this continues, how to protect yourself if things develop one way or another. This person's response would help you get out of your own subjective and self-defeating responses by simplifying and defining what's dangerous for you about this situation. You'll be helped not only in terms of custody and settlement if a divorce occurs, but I think it could shake you out of your inability to see how bad and warped her behavior is.

[merrmeade]

Oh, one more thing: I was resopnding to the fact that your anger FINALLY seems to be kicking in and anticipating how your wife will distort this.

[howtoproceed]

@merrmeade

 

What I mean is that you need an objective third party, who also knows the legal ramifications, to hear ALL the details of what happened and how things are playing out now and tell you what the dangers are if this continues, how to protect yourself if things develop one way or another. This person's response would help you get out of your own subjective and self-defeating responses by simplifying and defining what's dangerous for you about this situation. You'll be helped not only in terms of custody and settlement if a divorce occurs, but I think it could shake you out of your inability to see how bad and warped her behavior is.

 

Right after I discovered the affair, 18 mnths ago, I contacted several lawyers and was shocked by what I heard. Basically, infidelity means nothing in America except in special circumstances, that did not apply to my case. In fact, I was threatened with arrest for going to the OM place of business and confronting him. Even though this POS had sex with my wife and in my bed and apparently took my wife and daughters out for dinner once - well I don't even want to start thinking about. I've finally gotten that out of my mind.

 

Divorce would be a financial hardship for everyone because I would insist on splitting the assets 50/50 and not paying a dime in spousal support. I'm always thinking about leaving, maybe just taking a long trip but I'm not up for a divorce.

[Silveron]

Howto.. I was there in your shoes. First year of my marriage was her sneaking out to see her ex-bf. She turned from this sweet, adorable soul to some monster who I didn't know.

 

 

She kept everything a lie and had me thinking I was crazy over that year. It wasn't until a psychologist told me that she was cheating. I went from showing anger to trying to show understanding and nothing work. What worked was to go complete silence on her.

 

 

She sounds like she might have Borderline personality disorder (do some research on it). It's basically a mental disease that cannot be cured. She is emotionally stuck at the level of a teenager. The more you push the more you become her dad, which she will rebel.

 

 

It's basically how much do you want to tolerate? Who is really paying the price? Your child. What my wife did to me was 12 years ago and I am still with her (just found out about the borderline personality disorder myself about a year ago) and explains SO much. They paint you black and white, if she's mad at you, she literally hates you. She will do things to you and not feel remorse. She hides emotions and feelings because in her reality it's like a ball of string that will totally unravel her life and she cannot deal with that.

 

 

You have to ask yourself how long do you want to play detective? When was the last time you didn't worry about the relationship? Do you remember a time that you didn't have to walk on eggshells? It's just not the physical cheating she did, it's the emotional, mental and probably verbal abuse she has done.

 

 

If you continue the marriage (and she doesn't go to counseling) what will probably happen is you will you pull away while the bond continually erodes. Look at the situation as a weed, if you don't deal with the root of the issue (her mental health) then that weed will continue to grow and more cheating/abuse will occur.

 

 

Take a step back and look at the big picture. There is no partnership going on here. IMO even if it means building yourself up from the ground up, leaving her is your best option. This can easily affect your own self-worth and even psychologists that deal with BPD patients, go for counseling themselves, that's how hard it is to deal with these people.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Silveron

[aileD]

So why don't you come up with some sort of post-nuptial agreement where you and her agree to stay married but do your own thing in the sex/romance department but agree if one were to leave the other, they would agree to no spousal support and 50/50 everything

 

Cuz honestly you don't have a marriage. The only reason you're staying is because it's too hard to get divorced.

[howtoproceed]

Cuz honestly you don't have a marriage. The only reason you're staying is because it's too hard to get divorced.

 

I have to admit that's true and for her too.

[Grapesofwrath]

@merrmeade

 

Divorce would be a financial hardship for everyone because I would insist on splitting the assets 50/50 and not paying a dime in spousal support. I'm always thinking about leaving, maybe just taking a long trip but I'm not up for a divorce.

 

Yes, divorce is a financial hardship. Marriage is a financial benefit to most people (not all) and the legal framework of the institution is designed that way. This is why many people stay locked in unhappy marriages. But as someone who was financially devastated through divorce--I mean I lost EVERYTHING and still had to pay spousal support--I will tell you that it's worth it. It's the price of your freedom, your integrity and your peace of mind. You can earn more money. You can recover financially over time.

 

Is it worth it to keep the nice house when living in that house has become a nightmare for you? When walking in the door means getting that sick feeling inside because your gut knows that something is very wrong? Only you know where your priorities are. If you are unwilling to consider divorce under any circumstances, then you might as well stop trying to change her and simply accept that this is the person you married. Pull up a chair at the All-You-Can-Eat S**t Buffet.

 

Also, as a legal point of fact, your desire to pay no spousal support will not matter. What will matter is the law in your state. Know the laws in your state.

[Survivedtothriving]

@merrmeade

 

 

 

Right after I discovered the affair, 18 mnths ago, I contacted several lawyers and was shocked by what I heard. Basically, infidelity means nothing in America except in special circumstances, that did not apply to my case. In fact, I was threatened with arrest for going to the OM place of business and confronting him. Even though this POS had sex with my wife and in my bed and apparently took my wife and daughters out for dinner once - well I don't even want to start thinking about. I've finally gotten that out of my mind.

 

Divorce would be a financial hardship for everyone because I would insist on splitting the assets 50/50 and not paying a dime in spousal support. I'm always thinking about leaving, maybe just taking a long trip but I'm not up for a divorce.

 

If you aren't up for a divorce, then accept your wife's behavior as your reality and future. No matter how hard you try or be the perfect husband, you alone cannot fix your marriage.

[howtoproceed]

@grapes of wrath

 

But as someone who was financially devastated through divorce--I mean I lost EVERYTHING and still had to pay spousal support--I will tell you that it's worth it.

 

Do you mind if I ask, how is it you lost everything AND had to pay spousal support?

 

I'm a teacher and my wife is a nurse; she makes almost as much as I do but she is in her 2nd year as a nurse. Potentially, she'll make much more.

 

You are really scaring me out of divorce now!

[Cephalopod]

Unless you live in an alimony state, most no-fault divorce states will split the value of the assets down the middle.

 

Look into mediation. It is cheaper than going the full two-lawyer route. One lawyer will sit down with you and your wife and hash out an agreement, file all the paperwork, and send you the decree ...instead of going to court.

 

Personally, I would rather lose everything and end up living in a van down by the river than living with an unrepentant, cruel, disrespectful wife who's only desire is to make my life as miserable as she can.

[howtoproceed]

Personally, I would rather lose everything and end up living in a van down by the river than living with an unrepentant, cruel, disrespectful wife who's only desire is to make my life as miserable as she can.

 

I'd rather see the lawyers get the money then her.

 

I live in an equitable distribution state and both lawyers I contacted said I would pay little to no spousal support, of course I would pay child support and given our similar incomes, probably a 50/50 split would be equitable.

 

I've heard about mediation.

[Grapesofwrath]

@grapes of wrath

Do you mind if I ask, how is it you lost everything AND had to pay spousal support?

 

I'm a teacher and my wife is a nurse; she makes almost as much as I do but she is in her 2nd year as a nurse. Potentially, she'll make much more.

 

You are really scaring me out of divorce now!

 

My xH committed "financial infidelity," as they say. I was the sole breadwinner for the last 6 years of our marriage. He amassed mountains of debt without my knowledge. I naively signed multiple papers over the years, especially when I was bleary-eyed from caring for a newborn and toddler. These forms removed my name from the deed of our house, opened lines of credit, and established a second mortgage. I absolutely should have read what I was signing, but I trusted him blindly and didn't find out about any of this until we were in mediation for divorce. I was blindsided and had to declare bankruptcy. I lost my house, my car, my good credit, and half of my belongings, which were not many after years of living on a spartan budget while my exH drained our savings chasing one ridiculous business scheme after another. All this while working fulltime and raising two beautiful children that I adore while he smoked weed and slept on the couch.

 

In his defense, he never cheated on me. So there's that.

 

In any case, as the sole breadwinner, I was assigned spousal support. He had no means of support and hadn't earned any money in years. (He still struggles to keep a job, but the time limit on the support has expired, so this is no longer my problem.) I live in a no-fault state. My EA did not hurt my position. His financial irresponsibility did not hurt his. We just split down the middle what precious little was left, then I had to pay him $2K a month for half the duration of the marriage.

 

This experience was one of the most humiliating, painful, and stressful episodes of my life. But it made me stronger. I am now stable financally, have re-established my credit, and am much more savvy about financial matters. I have never spent one minute regretting my choice to divorce. I was terrified of what it would do to my children. Turns out they are wonderful, loving boys and I hear from their coaches/teachers/friends parents only that they are young gentlemen who show leadership, a work ethic, and loving compassion to the world.

 

In your case, if her wages as a nurse outpace yours as a teacher, then she could owe you spousal support. And/or child support. When it comes to assigning support, the courts don't care about gender. They care about numbers.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Grapesofwrath

[howtoproceed]

I'm leaving. I have my travelling money and a one way ticket to my brothers house and I didn't even give two weeks notice. I just packed my bags, bought a ticket, withdrew some money and I'm leaving tomorrow.

 

My wife doesn't seem to care except she's outraged now that the primary source of income has disappeared and she's stuck with taking care of the kids. She said said she's glad I'm leaving and that I had better get a job and start sending her money right away. I said why don't we just divorce and she said if that's what you want then just go ahead.

 

This is not turning out as I expected and its a lot hard than I thought. She's sleeping with my daughters again andI really want to go get her and bring her into out bed. Its very sad here.

[BluesPower]

You are doing the right thing, do not waver.

 

I am still not sure why you are the one leaving, but at least you are getting out.

 

There is nothing to save here and you know that. Just try to heal and move on with life.

 

Good luck...

[Grapesofwrath]

I'm leaving. I have my travelling money and a one way ticket to my brothers house and I didn't even give two weeks notice. I just packed my bags, bought a ticket, withdrew some money and I'm leaving tomorrow.

 

My wife doesn't seem to care except she's outraged now that the primary source of income has disappeared and she's stuck with taking care of the kids. She said said she's glad I'm leaving and that I had better get a job and start sending her money right away. I said why don't we just divorce and she said if that's what you want then just go ahead.

 

This is not turning out as I expected and its a lot hard than I thought. She's sleeping with my daughters again andI really want to go get her and bring her into out bed. Its very sad here.

 

She is a nurse and will be able to make money. Judging by what you've written thus far, I don't think you've left her penniless. You don't seem like the type to do that, which is to your credit.

 

It is hard. Very hard. But that doesn't mean it's a mistake.

 

Also, she is being unfair to your daughters. She is using them as human teddy bears, to soothe herself, as well as to avoid dealing with you. This is confusing for them, and it shows that she puts her own needs before anyone else's.

[Cephalopod]

Good for you. Get settled, get a job and file for divorce.