Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[S2B]

It's been 10 days since I left and checked FB for that matter.

My wife just made 1st contact with me.

I want to parse her letter a bit but first point out that she contacted me first.

Last time, i contacted her first so i guess I win?

 

 

 

She says "you either need to pay support or ...." meaning she isn't 100% certain about divorce. Anyway, she made first contact.

 

You really don't "have to" have either one. She means she wants money while you're away and she wants to get some from you.

 

It's interesting that she contacts when she wants something from you, eh?

 

I'd do nothing. She can chase your money if need be.

[dreamingoftigers]

You really don't "have to" have either one. She means she wants money while you're away and she wants to get some from you.

 

It's interesting that she contacts when she wants something from you, eh?

 

I'd do nothing. She can chase your money if need be.

 

 

Oh come on. He is leaving his kids in the lurch and I can't believe anyone is supporting that.

 

At the VERY LEAST is he's going to run off Like a teenager

He can settle his affairs first.

 

Yes she broke the family but that doesn't end his parenting cold turkey.

 

Frankly, I've been through this betrayal multiple times (yeah, I know) and I never once ditched off my kid.

 

But I've been left in a financial lurch by my husband before, and even just leaving things unsettled caused me to file taxes as separated with no supporting documents. But he also wasn't here to file under married. It screwed up my taxes for THREE YEARS. And I still have to send another round of documents in that were just requested last week.

 

Adulting is hard, but it's still the responsible route to take.

 

It's one thing for your relationship with your wife to incinerate. But you are being VERY CALLOUS about your relationship with your daughters.

 

And they will always remember that. Ask me how I know.

[Grapesofwrath]

There is nothing in her note to you indicating that she does not want a divorce. She is making a demand for financial settlement and she has put forward two options on how to achieve that. There are more legal options available to you. Consult an attorney.

 

Beyond that, I agree with Dreaming. Please do not abandon your children. You are allowing your understandable feelings toward your WW to interfere with your parenting instincts and duties toward your young daughters. They will be forever scarred by this. If you abandon them it will haunt you. There are many many other options available to you besides running to another continent without a word.

 

Look a few years down the line. What kind of father do you want to be?

[BluesPower]

She works, unless I am mistaken, she can support them until he is in his new job. He left all but $500.00 in the account.

 

If she decided to have this kind of affair and put him through what she has put him through, don't you think she should get to work.

 

Seems to me she is the one that did this and she should start living the single mother life that she wanted. That entails working for a living.

 

Am I missing something?

[howtoproceed]

Oh come on. He is leaving his kids in the lurch and I can't believe anyone is supporting that.

 

At the VERY LEAST is he's going to run off Like a teenager

He can settle his affairs first.

 

My mom says the very same thing, which is why and contrary to both what bluespower and S2B advise (and I've come to trust that advice) I'll suggest a separation agreement and pay support. But working overseas is now down to the visa - once I get the correct visa worked out, I can leave.

 

As far as division of assets, I had suggested I sign over everything to her but have no support payments for a set number of years. I don't where she came up with 3 years. I want something like 8 years.

[dreamingoftigers]

There is nothing in her note to you indicating that she does not want a divorce. She is making a demand for financial settlement and she has put forward two options on how to achieve that. There are more legal options available to you. Consult an attorney.

 

Beyond that, I agree with Dreaming. Please do not abandon your children. You are allowing your understandable feelings toward your WW to interfere with your parenting instincts and duties toward your young daughters. They will be forever scarred by this. If you abandon them it will haunt you. There are many many other options available to you besides running to another continent without a word.

 

Look a few years down the line. What kind of father do you want to be?

 

I honestly wonder if he was very involved at all with them.

 

As a woman, if my husband was laissez-faire about the kids, I think that would be enough for me to not take the marriage very seriously. I'm not giving this woman an "out" for her behaviour. She should have left if that the case. But I kept reading OP having blowouts and now he's just uo and going on the kids too. I think that shows a large issue with handling conflict.

 

And he's making the settling even harder with support from the guys on here. Really?

 

Just sign some papers already instead of just dragging things out and making it more difficult for everyone. You know the government is going to go nuts for taxes if you leave everything open-ended and that can affect YOU for years too. Go live your life overseas if you must, but close the chapter if that's the best you can do.

[Grapesofwrath]

She works, unless I am mistaken, she can support them until he is in his new job. He left all but $500.00 in the account.

 

If she decided to have this kind of affair and put him through what she has put him through, don't you think she should get to work.

 

Seems to me she is the one that did this and she should start living the single mother life that she wanted. That entails working for a living.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Yes, you are. Providing financial support for the children is one issue. This is a highly adjudicated area of law. His financial responsibility for them is a matter of arithmetic. Her affair will factor into it depending on where they live and the prevailing laws in that state.

 

We are talking about being a father. Taking off to another continent, regardless of financial issues, is emotionally and mentally damaging to his children. It is selfish. I understand that OP is hurting and that he wants to run as far as he can from the situation. He is a father, however, so that option is not available to him. He is going to have to be an adult about this and deal with it in a way that protects his children to the maximum extent possible.

[howtoproceed]

We are talking about being a father. Taking off to another continent, regardless of financial issues, is emotionally and mentally damaging to his children. It is selfish.

 

It is damaging to the girls but they will recover and I'll still see them. Plus this ***** happens all the time in America. Two out of three of our most recent 3 presidents came from broken homes.

 

It is selfish but I've been doing this pick-me dance for the past 18 months so this selfishness is balancing things out.

 

Maybe it will change but I'm not even feeling a single twinge of guilt and I'm usually the first person to feel guilty about things. I'm just really excited to go and honestly, I want to meet a much younger woman and plaster it all over FB see, I'm not really thinking about my girls but I will provide support.

[Bittersweetie]

It is damaging to the girls but they will recover and I'll still see them. Plus this ***** happens all the time in America. Two out of three of our most recent 3 presidents came from broken homes.

 

It is selfish but I've been doing this pick-me dance for the past 18 months so this selfishness is balancing things out.

 

Maybe it will change but I'm not even feeling a single twinge of guilt and I'm usually the first person to feel guilty about things. I'm just really excited to go and honestly, I want to meet a much younger woman and plaster it all over FB see, I'm not really thinking about my girls but I will provide support.

 

Proceed, I am on your side. You definitely are making the right choice by pursuing a divorce. However, the bolded statements above reek of justifications. When you tell yourself something to make your behavior acceptable. I know because I did it. And it's a rabbit hole...please be careful.

[Grapesofwrath]

It is damaging to the girls but they will recover and I'll still see them. Plus this ***** happens all the time in America. Two out of three of our most recent 3 presidents came from broken homes.

 

It is selfish but I've been doing this pick-me dance for the past 18 months so this selfishness is balancing things out.

 

Maybe it will change but I'm not even feeling a single twinge of guilt and I'm usually the first person to feel guilty about things. I'm just really excited to go and honestly, I want to meet a much younger woman and plaster it all over FB see, I'm not really thinking about my girls but I will provide support.

 

The bolded statement is accurate. The rest is, as Bittersweetie points out, a series of justifications. It is one thing to come from a family of divorce. It's another to be abandoned by your father. I am divorced. It was difficult for my kids, but they have adjusted. BECAUSE THEIR FATHER HAS BEEN A PRESENT GUIDING FORCE IN THEIR LIVES. I provided him with financial support as the law required, but that didn't change our roles and responsibilities as parents.

 

You seem to lump your daughters and your wife together as one entity against which you are rebelling. This does not speak well of you at all, OP. Again, you have my sympathy for the pain you are experiencing by your wife's infidelity. But her cheating and your daugher's need for a father are two entirely separate things.

[dreamingoftigers]

She works, unless I am mistaken, she can support them until he is in his new job. He left all but $500.00 in the account.

 

If she decided to have this kind of affair and put him through what she has put him through, don't you think she should get to work.

 

Seems to me she is the one that did this and she should start living the single mother life that she wanted. That entails working for a living.

 

Am I missing something?

 

The PARENTING portion of the whole thing.

 

Abandoning your kids isn't okay. Just treating them like the occasional phone call and cheque sent out IS NOT OKAY.

 

It is particularly damaging to young people and they often grow up believing it is their fault.

 

My generation had a ton of divorces go down, and more often then not the parents botched it in one way or another. I've seen the effects in stereo. He's already done some damage, I am sure. But now he's compounding it by just up and disappearing, and now going overseas.

 

On top of it, he hasn't settled anything which is going to be just insane, as anyone who has been suddenly left knows.

 

And you can bet that Mom's extra stress is going to go all over the little ones, and they don't have Dad to turn to now. Awesome!

[dreamingoftigers]

My mom says the very same thing, which is why and contrary to both what bluespower and S2B advise (and I've come to trust that advice) I'll suggest a separation agreement and pay support. But working overseas is now down to the visa - once I get the correct visa worked out, I can leave.

 

Good for your Mom and good to listen to her!

 

As far as division of assets, I had suggested I sign over everything to her but have no support payments for a set number of years. I don't where she came up with 3 years. I want something like 8 years.

 

Try to see an attorney about that. You don't want to sign everything over and then have to pay a significant amount of support on top of that (depending on the assets).

[dreamingoftigers]

It is damaging to the girls but they will recover and I'll still see them. Plus this ***** happens all the time in America. Two out of three of our most recent 3 presidents came from broken homes.

 

It is selfish but I've been doing this pick-me dance for the past 18 months so this selfishness is balancing things out.

 

Maybe it will change but I'm not even feeling a single twinge of guilt and I'm usually the first person to feel guilty about things. I'm just really excited to go and honestly, I want to meet a much younger woman and plaster it all over FB see, I'm not really thinking about my girls but I will provide support.

 

That says it all.

 

Dating comes first, daughters distant second.

 

Over and out.

[BluesPower]

I guess that you guys are right...

 

I get that he needs to be there for his daughters. I am just torn.

 

He is the only parent that they have had since the mother decided to run off with her OM.

 

He may not have handled it the best way for 18 months, but now he is doing something about it.

 

I understand that they need a dad, I get that. But for the most part she has been less than a parent since she started her affair.

 

Does everything just always fall on the dad, it fell on me and I took it, but their are times that I wish I had not.

 

It just seems like their is some unfairness going on toward the Husband in this situation.

 

Does the mother have no responsibility? If she had done the right thing and left the house so that H could work and raise the kids, wouldn't that have been a better thing?

 

I see everyone's point but it is just hard to put it all on him. Maybe because I was a man that had to raise 3 kids essentially alone.

[DKT3]

Let's be honest, mom is a $hitty parent as well who is actively excluding him from their lives and only interest seems to be gaining financially

 

I totally understand his desire to get away, I had this same desire. I also believe that if he is a wreck (which he appears to be) he is no good to his daughters. Sometimes you have to look out for yourself, as he is active with his girls it can work out fine.

[dreamingoftigers]

I guess that you guys are right...

 

I get that he needs to be there for his daughters. I am just torn.

 

He is the only parent that they have had since the mother decided to run off with her OM.

 

He may not have handled it the best way for 18 months, but now he is doing something about it.

 

I understand that they need a dad, I get that. But for the most part she has been less than a parent since she started her affair.

 

Does everything just always fall on the dad, it fell on me and I took it, but their are times that I wish I had not.

 

It just seems like their is some unfairness going on toward the Husband in this situation.

 

Does the mother have no responsibility? If she had done the right thing and left the house so that H could work and raise the kids, wouldn't that have been a better thing?

 

I see everyone's point but it is just hard to put it all on him. Maybe because I was a man that had to raise 3 kids essentially alone.

 

My first question is "if the kids 'will recover' then what is your plan to make that happen? Because recovery from having ones family just up and break apart doesn't tend to happen on its own, especially with continued upheaval."

 

Look, my husband was a wreck and would take off etc on my daughter and I. Cheating, you name it.

 

But that was the thing.

 

I knew that my daughter NEEDED me. And being a single parent can truly suck. I get that.

 

I could have left her with him or her with my parents. He would have looked after her. He actually would have. BUT it would not have been checked-in, just like a cheating wife wouldn't be checked in and more worried about her boyfriend than her family.

 

My parents would have gladly taken her. In fact I almost had to fight them off! But they are her GRANDPARENTS, not her parents. She needed AT LEAST one stable checked-in parent.

 

It seems like this thread has devolved into "oh his wife is so much worse, bad wife! Bad!"

 

When really, the kids aren't going to give two craps "who started it." And "who is worse." They'll go with any port in a storm if it gets bad enough.

 

The fact is now the kids have TWO parents who care more about their dating life than they do about the children they brought into this world. Mom MIGHT BE waking up a bit here because she at least mentioned the kids existing and deserving something better than they currently have. But I won't hold my breath.

 

This seems to be AT BEST a typical "kids are pawns" divorce scenario and at worst a "the kids are resilient, whatever whatever" divorce.

 

And frankly, if you're the adult, YOU BE RESILIENT and be there for your kid. Not consign them to a life-sentebce of therapy because "you want to date and plaster it on Facebook neiner, neiner, neiner."

 

That isn't being a parent. That isn't being an adult even, that something out of junior high.

 

 

Did I want to date when my husband took off?

Sure. I did. I wanted a partner. But I also knew I was nowhere near healthy emotionally to attract a reasonable partner, nor was I going to pit my child through a parade of step-fathers like I've seen so many needy women do. Because it's so damaging for the kids. Totally ridiculous.

 

So every move I made, I made it with my daughter's stability and safety in mind.

 

By the way, my father is a product of a botched divorce and abandonment. Ugh. Lifelong issues that he's only begun to confront in his FIFTIES after pretty much trainwrecking every relationship except the one with my mother. But that's only because SHE'S exceptional in that regard. She should have ditched him over 30 years ago. I actually do love my Dad, but the stuff he put our family through is completely unreasonable.

[dreamingoftigers]

Let's be honest, mom is a $hitty parent as well who is actively excluding him from their lives and only interest seems to be gaining financially

 

That only tells me that a father would be fighting harder to maintain his relationship with his children, especially given the fact that they will need a sane, stable patent as a role-model.

 

As for the "Mom's a crappy person" line. Yes. Yes indeed she is. That's why they are divorcing. You don't get to divorce CHILDREN though. I don't care if Mom is axe-murdering on the weekends with her gangbang club after they deal Meth to school-children.

 

That only tells me: be involved with the kids more. They REALLY need their Dad.

 

It's almost like many of you think that the kids and the mother are a package deal. He either buys into mom and kids, or says "I'm going to make a replacement family."

 

That's distorted.

 

I totally understand his desire to get away, I had this same desire.

Oh me too. I can't tell you how many times I stared at the mountains West of town thinking "I could just keep driving. I could just never come back."

 

I also believe that if he is a wreck (which he appears to be) he is no good to his daughters. Sometimes you have to look out for yourself, as he is active with his girls it can work out fine.

 

If he's such "a wreck" then maybe trying to run overseas to date and "plaster it on Facebook" might be a little much now, no?

 

Is abandoning your kids and dating what you do to help you recover from being "a wreck."

 

See a counselor. One that specializes in not having you ditch your kids with a bad parent.

 

Some people think being betrayed means you get a blank cheque to do whatever you want whenever to whomever.

 

I disagree. My daughter didn't ask to be brought into a home where her father wasn't responsible.

 

Just like this man's daughters didn't ask to be brought into a home where NEITHER parent has enough interest in them to be responsible.

 

Marital issues and parenting issues are two different things.

[DKT3]

That only tells me that a father would be fighting harder to maintain his relationship with his children, especially given the fact that they will need a sane, stable patent as a role-model.

 

As for the "Mom's a crappy person" line. Yes. Yes indeed she is. That's why they are divorcing. You don't get to divorce CHILDREN though. I don't care if Mom is axe-murdering on the weekends with her gangbang club after they deal Meth to school-children.

 

That only tells me: be involved with the kids more. They REALLY need their Dad.

 

It's almost like many of you think that the kids and the mother are a package deal. He either buys into mom and kids, or says "I'm going to make a replacement family."

 

That's distorted.

 

 

Oh me too. I can't tell you how many times I stared at the mountains West of town thinking "I could just keep driving. I could just never come back."

 

 

 

If he's such "a wreck" then maybe trying to run overseas to date and "plaster it on Facebook" might be a little much now, no?

 

Is abandoning your kids and dating what you do to help you recover from being "a wreck."

 

See a counselor. One that specializes in not having you ditch your kids with a bad parent.

 

Some people think being betrayed means you get a blank cheque to do whatever you want whenever to whomever.

 

I disagree. My daughter didn't ask to be brought into a home where her father wasn't responsible.

 

Just like this man's daughters didn't ask to be brought into a home where NEITHER parent has enough interest in them to be responsible.

 

Marital issues and parenting issues are two different things.

I don't take it seriously when he said that about dating.,why? Because of the Facebook part, it's a revenge fantasy, thus the much younger woman.

[howtoproceed]

I don't take it seriously when he said that about dating.,why? Because of the Facebook part, it's a revenge fantasy, thus the much younger woman.

 

Yes, it was just a joke.

[CommittedToThis]

HtP, I'm glad you left; the kids are a concern for sure, is there any way you would consider finding work in a city within driving distance of your children, rather than Thailand?

 

I get that the idea of you going to Thailand probably distresses or otherwise bothers your soon-to-be ex wife, and that you're enjoying that thought, but, man, your little girls, dude. They're going to need you to be closer.

 

Have you looked into "narcissistic cycle of abuse?"

 

The things your soon-to-be ex wife says to you reminds me of the b!tch I dumped after 9 years of crap. The humiliation, the gas lighting, the lying, the cheating, the cruelty and coldness. It's full-on abuse.

 

My older sister gave up custody of her only son to her ex husband because she realized she was too much of an alcoholic to properly care for him because she couldn't even care for herself.

 

Sometimes you have to make sacrifices in life, and maybe in your case, your daughters will be it.

 

I'm just glad you got out, dude. I'd wager the next major event would've been you catching her having sex with another man in your bed. You seeing it.

 

Then you're in cuckold territory and, while there's nothing wrong with that if you're into it, most dudes don't wanna be part of that scene.

 

Another thing, please continue to stay away from Fakebook and all social media, and continue to employ limited contact (kids). Every time you feel the need to snoop on her, do something else -- eat a cookie or listen to a song or something. Anything. Just stay away from those urges to snoop because it always, always leads to a negative and bad place for you.

 

Focus on yourself now, your daughters are OK for the time being, don't be too rash in leaving the country, continue to IGNORE your wife so she knows you are finally serious, and get to the bottom of WHY you allowed yourself to take this crap for so long.

 

For me, it had to do with childhood abuse issues, and I worked on addressing them, and now I am Mr. Red Flag. After 9 years at the hands of a sociopath I'm free, happy and comfortable dating again because no one, I mean no one, will ever be able to pull a personality disordered move on me again without accepting the immediate consequences, which is the door closing behind me as I walk away forever.

[MadJackBird]

HtP, I'm glad you left; the kids are a concern for sure, is there any way you would consider finding work in a city within driving distance of your children, rather than Thailand?

 

I get that the idea of you going to Thailand probably distresses or otherwise bothers your soon-to-be ex wife, and that you're enjoying that thought, but, man, your little girls, dude. They're going to need you to be closer.

 

This bolded Part + 1.

 

Why oh why do you need to leave the country? I get you don't want any interactions with your STBX. She's horrible, cheated on you... but what is best for your kids is to be an ACTIVE participant in their lives.

 

The kids are going to have sporting events, band concerts, birthdays etc. Do you want to be a participant in those events?? When you are not around and whatever guy she is currently sleeping with is at those events how will that make you feel?

 

It appears a lot of your decisions are due to finances, and not really what is best for you kids. Well I'll tell you some news that shed some light to that thinking as well. Financially you are much better off if you are an active part of their lives too. You realize child support is based on how many nights a week your kids sleep at your place. You get 50/50 time, or even a little bit less you won't have to pay much support at all. She might pay you a little bit of support if she is making more money then you.

 

The right thing for you to do is move back to the area your kids are in and get a cheap apartment and start having them stay with you every other weekend at a minimum. Ask for 2 week nights and every other weekend.

 

Arrange pick ups and drops off at a neutral spot, or just always pick up and drop off at school/day care so you never have to see her.

 

Don't don't don't move to Thailand. How is that helpful to your kids?

[howtoproceed]

CommittedToThis and Madjackbird,

 

Thank you for the insightful comments and we seem to agree that FB is best avoided. I'm going overseas though but it turns out not to Thailand but to Ningbo China. It's better money. The reason I can't go back and get an apartment near my daughters is because I'm sure she would very quickly find herself a new man. She does that and fast, especially if money is a concern. She will extract resources and now she's working in an "alpha" environment and showing all the signs of recently being on the prowl. I 100% am convinced she met someone she doesn't want me to meet and that's why she excluded me from her birthday party.

[MadJackBird]

CommittedToThis and Madjackbird,

 

Thank you for the insightful comments and we seem to agree that FB is best avoided. I'm going overseas though but it turns out not to Thailand but to Ningbo China. It's better money. The reason I can't go back and get an apartment near my daughters is because I'm sure she would very quickly find herself a new man. She does that and fast, especially if money is a concern. She will extract resources and now she's working in an "alpha" environment and showing all the signs of recently being on the prowl. I 100% am convinced she met someone she doesn't want me to meet and that's why she excluded me from her birthday party.

 

Who cares if she is going to get another man. She probably already has one, and he is going to go to the soccer games, band concerts and kids birthday parties, and you'll be in China... Do you want that?

 

The best situation for your kids is to be near them and involved in their life. Your best financial situation is to have as much parenting time as you can because you will pay less child support. Shared care is normal and if she makes more money then you she will owe you child support.

 

How is going half way across the world a good idea. Even staying put 14 hours away is a better idea. You could work out that maybe you could have summer's and holidays with them.

 

Do you want to be around your kids?

[Cephalopod]

What arrangements are you going to make to bring your daughters to China to visit you? Or how often will you fly home to be with them?

 

If she lets you bring them to China, hell, I'd just keep them there.

[dreamingoftigers]

I guess that you guys are right...

 

I get that he needs to be there for his daughters. I am just torn.

 

He is the only parent that they have had since the mother decided to run off with her OM.

 

He may not have handled it the best way for 18 months, but now he is doing something about it.

 

I understand that they need a dad, I get that. But for the most part she has been less than a parent since she started her affair.

 

Does everything just always fall on the dad, it fell on me and I took it, but their are times that I wish I had not.

 

It just seems like their is some unfairness going on toward the Husband in this situation.

 

Does the mother have no responsibility? If she had done the right thing and left the house so that H could work and raise the kids, wouldn't that have been a better thing?

 

I see everyone's point but it is just hard to put it all on him. Maybe because I was a man that had to raise 3 kids essentially alone.

 

It's like this: both parents are ideally supposed to take 100% responsibility for their kids.

 

If Dad gets hit by a semi, Mom takes 100% responsibility.

 

If Mom gets hit by a semi, Dad takes 100% responsibility.

 

If Mom or Dad runs off with an AP, or ends up in prison, or gets a horrid disease, or is incapacitated for any reason, the other parent takes the full 100%.

 

Because the kid has already lost Mom or Dad. They don't need to lose the other parent as well.

 

Are both parents responsible?

Yes, so long as they remain so.

 

That's the unfortunate thing about how we reproduce. We can't guarantee that we will always have a helpful and responsible partner. So we need to be able to depend on ourselves so our kids can depend on us too.