Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[dreamingoftigers]

Please re-read my post above. And answer the question in BOLD.

 

Based on your answer to that question I think we can give you the best advice moving forward. Maybe a lot of people (including myself) assumed you would do any and everything for your kids...

 

Also I second the question to seek IC.

 

You have a lot of bitterness and anger towards your STBX. I get it. Oh boy do I get it. For me it was just one guy she cheated with. Off and on for a number of years. Then the trickle truth is that it was 2 other guys. Off and On for years.... Then false recovery and her slipping into a drug addiction that I stood by her for as she went to rehab, only to have her slip into the 4th adultery (That I know of). All the time I'm trying to put together the pieces for myself and my three kids. If anyone understands bitterness and anger it's me.

 

But you know what... You need to step back and forgive her for all of that and move on for yourself and your kids.

 

Not forgiving her for all of that like you drinking a bottle of poison and hoping she will drop dead from the poison you drank.

 

Best of luck to you. Please answer my bolded question and I'll give you advice on what you should do. It's drastically different depending of if you care about being a part of your kids life or not.

 

Later

 

Hell, you don't even have to forgive her.

 

You just gotta work with being the best Dad ever for your kids.

 

But instead of that you're acting like you are too good to "debase yourself" into being a good Dad.

 

Which is weird because being a Great Dad is the highest office a man can hold IMHO.

[howtoproceed]

@madjackbird

 

Do you want to be around your kids?

 

I want Summers and alternating Christmas Holidays. I don't want full or joint custody.

 

@aileD

 

THATS YOUR Problem. You think she cares and you can retaliate and hurt her.

 

Its not me not being there, its the work I do and the support I provided. She'll figure it out I'm sure but any solution is going to involve either her time or her money, both of which are in short supply at the moment. That's the retaliation I'm talking about and yes, it is probably already wearing her down either financially or physically.

 

@midnightblue

 

What is going to happen is your wife will marry someone else and petition the courts to terminate your rights so her new husband can adopt your kids.

 

This sounds like a scare - tactic and it is patently false. No judge is going to terminate my parental rights for leaving a cheating spouse. Its not even technically abandonment and even if it was, its called constructive because she gave me cause. I saw a lawyer right after Dday and before I left the first time. There was ZERO talk about having my parental rights terminated.

[dreamingoftigers]

You can divorce your disgusting wife without abandoning your children

 

People do it everyday.

 

You're not divorcing your children. They still need their father.

 

Not one person here ever suggested crapping on your kids like this.

 

You just can't seem to separate the wife from the family. You can have the kids and not have the wife.

 

You are just as messed up as her if you're going to punish your kids for your wife sucking someone's dick on your bed because regardless of your little rant--- YOU ARENT PUNISHING YOUR WIFE BECAUSE SHE DOESNT GOVE A **** ABOUT YOU OR ABOUT HOW FAR AWAY YOU ARE

 

THATS YOUR Problem. You think she cares and you can retaliate and hurt her.

 

She doesn't care. Walk away and say nothing to her that doesn't involve care for your kids.

 

Programs like The Family Wizard help co-parenting and scheduling from a distance.

 

I can't freaking believe this.

 

This is obviously a guy who didn't attach to his kids.

I can't even for the slightest moment imagine not fighting my arse off for my kid. This is clearly someone who hasn't gone through the misery of court and custody.

 

Wait until you CAN'T see them OP.

 

Then you'll realize how much a "new young woman" won't stack up against that. And if you told any healthy, sensible young woman the truth of how you ditched your kids, shed walk away pretty quickly. The vast majority of women won't risk reproducing with a guy that drop the kids when it suits him.

 

Unfortunately many that do say a big lying sob story to continue to date.

 

Co-parenting has its sucking points. But the vast majority of people would walk through fire for their kids. It really sucks FOR YOUR KIDS that you aren't one of them.

 

All that you are doing is taking out your hurt feelings on YOUR KIDS who have already been victimized enough.

[howtoproceed]

@dreamingoftigers

 

Wait until you CAN'T see them OP.

 

I'll see them Summers and alternating Christmas and I'll Skype regularly.

Its called a visitation schedule and you know what, if I was going overseas to kill little Muslim babies in the name of a democracy that you say can terminate my parental rights at the drop of a hat, I bet you'd start waving a flag then.

 

So how about that - all those military men off to fight our wars and leaving their kids behind? Will those kids ever recover?

[eye of the storm]

HtP, where to start. Ok. I'm divorced. My xH left me for a woman I thought was my best friend. It was vicious. They tried to rub my nose in it. They tried to show me how much happier they are. They both took pleasure in my pain.

 

But I stayed strong for my children. I put my head down and focused on what was most important. My children. I suffered to support them, comfort them, and protect them from the ugliness of the divorce.

 

They are both adults now. And even though I did my best to not run down their dad to them, they are smart and figured out why I worked 4 jobs.

 

I have a good solid relationship with my children. They trust me to stand strong for them. They trust me to be honest with them. We enjoy spending time together because there is trust and affection.

 

My xH has a decent relationship with them. They love their father, but there is not a lot of trust. He abandoned them when they needed him the most. They love him but don't want to spend a massive amount of time with him. You can almost see the boundary they erected its low enough to see over but high enough so he can't disappoint them more.

 

So you need to decide what is more important to you. Your wounded ego....or your children.

[eye of the storm]

@dreamingoftigers

 

 

 

I'll see them Summers and alternating Christmas and I'll Skype regularly.

Its called a visitation schedule and you know what, if I was going overseas to kill little Muslim babies in the name of a democracy that you say can terminate my parental rights at the drop of a hat, I bet you'd start waving a flag then.

 

So how about that - all those military men off to fight our wars and leaving their kids behind? Will those kids ever recover?

 

Military members are not leaving their children behind. Its temporary. They are serving their country. They are not running away.

 

Do not equate your running away with people serving their country.

[howtoproceed]

@eyeofthe storm

 

My xH has a decent relationship with them. They love their father, but there is not a lot of trust. He abandoned them when they needed him the most.

 

First of all, I would be happy with a decent relationship with them and I know what that looks like. I had a first marriage and two sons from that marriage and my relationship with them (they are all grown) is something like what you describe but only better. Kids are tough - they'll be fine.

 

Second of all, your husband cheated so he has no defense. My wife caused the issue by cheating and I have the graphic texts to prove it. When my daughters are old enough, I will sit them down and go through those texts and maybe they'll see where I'm coming from.

[Noirek]

Talk about self justification, lack of respect, lack of accountablity and immaturity. Unless a gun is involved nobody makes anyone do anything.

 

I was on another forum before here that I actually left because too many people supported the BH abandoning his children to get away from his WW. And his WW was remorseful and wanted R. He used all sorts of "holidays" and "skype" and let me tell you it is hard on children when their dad is in the army. But they believe it is for a reason. A good reason. Not a selfish choice.

 

Those poor babies. being abandoned by their selfish father.

[BluesPower]

HTP...

 

There are a lot of people dogging you for going to wherever. While they may have a point in some areas I just really cannot agree with them 100%.

 

I may get dogged for that, and it is ok.

 

If you wanted, could you get a job closer to you children?

 

That may be an option further down the road.

 

I just don't understand what everyone thinka you should do with a wife like yours. I think if you did not get away for some good amount of time, you would lose your mind.

 

How you did it for as long as you did is a mystery to me.

 

Maybe if you can find work closer down the road you could move back and be more involved in their lives.

[eye of the storm]

@eyeofthe storm

 

 

 

First of all, I would be happy with a decent relationship with them and I know what that looks like. I had a first marriage and two sons from that marriage and my relationship with them (they are all grown) is something like what you describe but only better. Kids are tough - they'll be fine.

 

Second of all, your husband cheated so he has no defense. My wife caused the issue by cheating and I have the graphic texts to prove it. When my daughters are old enough, I will sit them down and go through those texts and maybe they'll see where I'm coming from.

 

 

How sick do you have to be to torture your children with those texts. I was in the don't dump your kids because you are angry with your xW...but I would like to officially change my mind.

 

I cannot believe how cruel you are. Why? So they can hate your xW? That isn't their xW. She is their mother! The only people you will be hurting is your children. You must hate them to be planning on hurting them like this.

 

If your only goal is staying in their life just enough so you can show those texts when they get older, please just walk away and hopefully they will forget you.

 

One of the reasons my kids have a good relationship with me is I don't smack talk about their father. He does talk about me and it is just one more layer to the boundary they maintain with him.

 

You are one of those people who uses their children as a weapon against their X. Not caring about the damage you do to them. Because they are nothing to you but a weapon.

 

I feel so sorry for them. I hope you stay in China a very very long time.

[aileD]

You think summers and Skype and a random holiday here and there are a good substitute for a dad who was there every day?

 

.

 

They're going to hate you for it. And Mom will be the one that was there for them....even though she cheated on you and stated the downfall of your family, they're going to be closer to her and end up resenting you for abandoning them. And apparently making it financially difficult for your wife ---And your kids by proxy---gives you some sorry of cheap excitement and justification .

 

 

You're a lost cause on this. I'm done with this thread. All you want to do is hurt your wife and you're willing to trample over your kids to get there.

 

Good luck with that

[Jersey born raised]

HowtoProceed,

 

An adult demands respects or leaves. Done

 

An adult accepts damage to protect those that are due it, your children.

 

Two separate issues.

 

Why did you divorce your first wife. What was the custody arrangement.

 

What is your wife's past relationship history?

 

I still don't know if your wife is/was cheating on you recently. 50/50 if maybe she just decided it is easier to divorce then do the work to reconcile. Which, is on her not you.

[Grapesofwrath]

I just couldn't let this go by without saying something. I'm amazed that all that could happen in one lifetime along with your financial and emotional recovery.

 

Merrmeade: It's impossible to tell tone from these boards, so I will take that as the compliment that I believe you intended. Thank you. I'm a tough old broad.

 

It all happened. I have the scars to prove it. And just so you don't think it's all rainbows, unicorns and ice cream over here...During my recovery I also got involved with a raging abusive narcissist who was a serial cheater and became physically abusive before I got out, and I was involved with a MM for over a year. If those two things aren't self-destructive displays of emotional damage I don't know what is.

 

Doing better now, but still struggle with believing that I am worthy of love from someone great.

[Grapesofwrath]

Back to this thread, however:

 

HTP: By all means, divorce your wife. This is an unhealthy union and should be ended.

 

What you are suggesting is that you will punish your daughters to get revenge on your WW. Your ego is so big, you can't see past it and understand what you are doing to your children. Based on your comments, it appears that you do not care about them very much, if at all. You are quick to mention that you performed most of the parenting duties in the past, and you plan to use this as a bludgeon to hurt your wife. Did you get no joy out of spending time with your children? Was it all drudgery to you? Were they nothing more than tasks that had to be completed? If that is how you felt about them, then they are, sadly, better off without you around.

 

You have a chance here to show them what a man is supposed to be. It appears you are going to blow it.

[howtoproceed]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

I was involved with a MM for over a year.

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

[eye of the storm]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

 

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

 

Because she is not planning on sitting children down and trying to hurt them. She is not planning using children as a weapon against someone.

 

Please understand, your children will not blame their mother when they see those texts. They will be horrified. At you.

 

I know you are upset. I understand. The feel to punish is sooo enticing. but you won't be punishing her. You will be punishing your children.

[MadJackBird]

Thank you for answering my question. So is essence you are saying you don't want to be around your kids except for summers and alternating Christmas. So let me understand this correctly. You said the girls are in girl scouts and choir, so you are not really interested in seeing them get the girl scout awards, or go to the choir practices, or as they get older attending other activities. Please make that clear to me. That is of no interest to you?

 

Now I'll try to refrain myself from making judgements on that decision.

 

Edited to Add,

 

Most states will make you take a Children in the Middle Class before you can get divorced in any situation that involves children. Please take the class, and take it seriously. DO NOT SHOW YOUR DAUGHTERS THE TEXTS. Remember your precious daughters are half you and half her. Anything you do or say that will hurtful to your STBX will be hurtful to your daughters. Don't do it. Just Don't.

 

 

But here are the facts of that decision. There WILL be another man in her life. Probably already is one who will be attending those events... in essence... in your place. Why do I know this, because it happened in my situation. Every kid activity I have to see the guy she cheated on do his step dad duties and it sucks. But I suck it up for my kids.

 

You seem concerned about paying the least amount of child support as possible. That decision you are making will most likely cause you to pay the MOST amount of child support possible. Child Support (in my state, probably many others) is based on who has primary care... (Her in this choice) and can be reduced with how many nights a year the other parent has with the kids (Very little in this scenario) So it will be the most you can pay. Likely if you have a shared care plan or even she had primary care plan where the kids stay at your place close to 50% of the time you will pay little to no, or even get money from her. There are tax implications as well as you could file head of household if that sticks around with the new president.

 

The person that said you may terminate your rights is probably exaggerating , but if she has an aggressive nasty lawyer, you never know. I personally know some people fighting for any visitation rights because the other side has a nasty lawyer that will do any and everything at the custody/visitation thing. Facts are fact you have abandoned the family home and kids and that can and likely will be taken against you when it goes to court.

 

Now moving forward. If those are really want you want then go ahead and make another life for yourself wherever you want. I caution you to avoid getting into another relationship very quickly. It may take anywhere from 2-5 years to fully recovery for the devastation of Divorce.

 

Please seek out IC for yourself and discuss all these things with a therapist.

 

Also seek out a DivorceCare Support Group. They probably meet at a church very close to you. I went through it myself for a few times and felt so passionate about the material and helping others going through Divorce that I started teaching the class.

 

Good Luck to you! It does get better, but it takes a lot of time to heal.

Edited November 22, 2016 by MadJackBird

[eye of the storm]

HtP, I think you misunderstood why my kids have a guarded relationship with their father. It isn't because he had an A. They really don't care about that.

 

It was his behavior after he left that damaged their relationship. He was trying so hard to force them to choose. He talked bad about me. He chose himself and his needs over theirs.

 

When we were separating they needed their father to be their father...and he wasn't. That is the only thing they care about. That is why they built that wall.

 

When they need to vent about him, the issues that upset them are all about their relationship with him. Not his and mine.

 

Your children are not going to have a bad relationship with their mother because she had an A. They will not care. They will remember who stood at their side. Who showed up at games/concerts. Who made hot chocolate when they were sad. Who picked them up from the movies.

 

What do you want your children to remember about you? Ugly texts or love and support.

 

And you can love and support them from China. You cannot love and support them while planning on using them as weapons.

[MadJackBird]

HtP, I think you misunderstood why my kids have a guarded relationship with their father. It isn't because he had an A. They really don't care about that.

 

It was his behavior after he left that damaged their relationship. He was trying so hard to force them to choose. He talked bad about me. He chose himself and his needs over theirs.

 

When we were separating they needed their father to be their father...and he wasn't. That is the only thing they care about. That is why they built that wall.

 

When they need to vent about him, the issues that upset them are all about their relationship with him. Not his and mine.

 

Your children are not going to have a bad relationship with their mother because she had an A. They will not care. They will remember who stood at their side. Who showed up at games/concerts. Who made hot chocolate when they were sad. Who picked them up from the movies.

 

What do you want your children to remember about you? Ugly texts or love and support.

 

And you can love and support them from China. You cannot love and support them while planning on using them as weapons.

 

Well said. Yes you can love and support from China, but it makes it harder, because you can't go to the activities and concerts and make hot chocolate.

[eye of the storm]

Well said. Yes you can love and support from China, but it makes it harder, because you can't go to the activities and concerts and make hot chocolate.

 

It does make it harder. I have friends while deployed that spend time every day working on homework with their kids via FT/Skype/Viber/Hangout. They don't have a choice about being gone but they do have a choice to be involved. If not homework reading stories together. Talking. Just letting their kids know they are important.

 

When I'm overseas working, my kids know how to call me and I call them all the time. We all work on maintaining the contact and the relationship.

 

In regards to HtP, I was in the camp of stick around. But the more he talked, the more I think maybe him leaving will give him time for this self centered bitterness to die down and hopefully he can refocus on what is important. His children. He is so focused on his hatred of her that he is forgetting them. I worry about them.

[Noirek]

HowtoProceed,

 

An adult demands respects or leaves. Done

 

An adult accepts damage to protect those that are due it, your children.

 

Two separate issues.

 

Why did you divorce your first wife. What was the custody arrangement.

 

What is your wife's past relationship history?

 

I still don't know if your wife is/was cheating on you recently. 50/50 if maybe she just decided it is easier to divorce then do the work to reconcile. Which, is on her not you.

 

If she hadn't recently cheated on him perhaps she was just done with living with a man who is willing to abandon his children. It says a lot about his character. Both my husband and I have solid lines in our marriage child abuse and neglect. If either of us were to ever abuse/neglect are children the marriage would be over. If either of us talked easily about walking away from our children then serious IC was in order and a serious talk. Too many children are abandoned by their parents in this world.

 

If you are completely, emotionally undone and you know you cannot parent in the place you are at than you check yourself into a facility and get help. Or go to an IC. You are a parent. Your kids need you.

[Mz. Pixie]

That the **** does that have to do with you living near your kids?

 

The marriage is over. Who cares if she gets a new guy? Who cares what she does anymore?

 

It's not about YOU and your feelings, it's about your children having a goddamn father.

 

I am so frustrated with you right now.

 

SUCK IT UP. She doesnt love you, Now you can forget all the drama and focus your energy on your kids who are going to need it. And what do you do? move across the world. *rips hair out*

 

Go be with your kids

 

So, you are so selfish and whiny that you are leaving your kids to pay the price???

 

"I can't see her with OM" Seriously????

 

Your children have zero choice in this, ZERO!!!

 

And you are walking away from them and CHOOSING to live in another country all because you cannot see her with a boyfriend????

 

I was all on your side during the first initial pages of the thread but apparently you have completely lost your mind and all sense of reality in what you are doing now.

 

I'm not saying that you cannot be a good parent in another part of the country or world, if that is a choice you have to make economically or because you are at war. You are not making the choice for that reason, it is because you can't stand thinking of your wife with another man!!!!

 

I hope she gets full custody, and the max child support that can be awarded- cheater or not- you should never ever abandon your children because you can't man up to seeing your wife or ex with another person. Someone needs to be the HERO for the sake of these kids- and it's apparently not going to be you. So perhaps it will be her or OM or whoever she ends up with after you, since you didn't have the stomach to hang around for your kids.

 

Unbelievable, I have friends who would do anything to just get enough time with their kids- and you are blowing it over your own selfish feelings. News flash- you gave up the rights to that when you had children.

[CommittedToThis]

Kids are tough - they'll be fine.

 

Just like you're fine with your wife cheating on you, right?

 

You're tough, you'll be fine dude.

[Grapesofwrath]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

Hold the phone there HTP: I was not married. I was involved with a man who was married. This makes me party to his adultery, but I myself was not cheating. If you took the time to read any of my comments or threads you would know that, and you would know the regret and remorse I feel over that.

 

I have not said at any time that you are wrong to feel as you do about your wife. I am encouraging you to do the right thing as a man and a father. Clearly, you are not interested in that. You've decided what you're going to do, and you have built your rationalizations to allow it.

 

I hope you will reconsider.

[howtoproceed]

You're tough, you'll be fine dude.

 

I think I will be. I'm looking forward to this so much. I haven't had a clear thing I was looking forward to for 18 months. Just before DDay, I must had something but I can't remember what it was.

 

Well, I'm looking forward to this.

 

I've decided to land in Bangkok and travel to China overland through Cambodia and Vietnam. There is a boarder crossing near a city called Nanning. From there, I can get a sleeper train to Ningbo. That's how I intend to spend Christmas.