Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[Grapesofwrath]

I just couldn't let this go by without saying something. I'm amazed that all that could happen in one lifetime along with your financial and emotional recovery.

 

Merrmeade: It's impossible to tell tone from these boards, so I will take that as the compliment that I believe you intended. Thank you. I'm a tough old broad.

 

It all happened. I have the scars to prove it. And just so you don't think it's all rainbows, unicorns and ice cream over here...During my recovery I also got involved with a raging abusive narcissist who was a serial cheater and became physically abusive before I got out, and I was involved with a MM for over a year. If those two things aren't self-destructive displays of emotional damage I don't know what is.

 

Doing better now, but still struggle with believing that I am worthy of love from someone great.

[Grapesofwrath]

Back to this thread, however:

 

HTP: By all means, divorce your wife. This is an unhealthy union and should be ended.

 

What you are suggesting is that you will punish your daughters to get revenge on your WW. Your ego is so big, you can't see past it and understand what you are doing to your children. Based on your comments, it appears that you do not care about them very much, if at all. You are quick to mention that you performed most of the parenting duties in the past, and you plan to use this as a bludgeon to hurt your wife. Did you get no joy out of spending time with your children? Was it all drudgery to you? Were they nothing more than tasks that had to be completed? If that is how you felt about them, then they are, sadly, better off without you around.

 

You have a chance here to show them what a man is supposed to be. It appears you are going to blow it.

[howtoproceed]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

I was involved with a MM for over a year.

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

[eye of the storm]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

 

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

 

Because she is not planning on sitting children down and trying to hurt them. She is not planning using children as a weapon against someone.

 

Please understand, your children will not blame their mother when they see those texts. They will be horrified. At you.

 

I know you are upset. I understand. The feel to punish is sooo enticing. but you won't be punishing her. You will be punishing your children.

[MadJackBird]

Thank you for answering my question. So is essence you are saying you don't want to be around your kids except for summers and alternating Christmas. So let me understand this correctly. You said the girls are in girl scouts and choir, so you are not really interested in seeing them get the girl scout awards, or go to the choir practices, or as they get older attending other activities. Please make that clear to me. That is of no interest to you?

 

Now I'll try to refrain myself from making judgements on that decision.

 

Edited to Add,

 

Most states will make you take a Children in the Middle Class before you can get divorced in any situation that involves children. Please take the class, and take it seriously. DO NOT SHOW YOUR DAUGHTERS THE TEXTS. Remember your precious daughters are half you and half her. Anything you do or say that will hurtful to your STBX will be hurtful to your daughters. Don't do it. Just Don't.

 

 

But here are the facts of that decision. There WILL be another man in her life. Probably already is one who will be attending those events... in essence... in your place. Why do I know this, because it happened in my situation. Every kid activity I have to see the guy she cheated on do his step dad duties and it sucks. But I suck it up for my kids.

 

You seem concerned about paying the least amount of child support as possible. That decision you are making will most likely cause you to pay the MOST amount of child support possible. Child Support (in my state, probably many others) is based on who has primary care... (Her in this choice) and can be reduced with how many nights a year the other parent has with the kids (Very little in this scenario) So it will be the most you can pay. Likely if you have a shared care plan or even she had primary care plan where the kids stay at your place close to 50% of the time you will pay little to no, or even get money from her. There are tax implications as well as you could file head of household if that sticks around with the new president.

 

The person that said you may terminate your rights is probably exaggerating , but if she has an aggressive nasty lawyer, you never know. I personally know some people fighting for any visitation rights because the other side has a nasty lawyer that will do any and everything at the custody/visitation thing. Facts are fact you have abandoned the family home and kids and that can and likely will be taken against you when it goes to court.

 

Now moving forward. If those are really want you want then go ahead and make another life for yourself wherever you want. I caution you to avoid getting into another relationship very quickly. It may take anywhere from 2-5 years to fully recovery for the devastation of Divorce.

 

Please seek out IC for yourself and discuss all these things with a therapist.

 

Also seek out a DivorceCare Support Group. They probably meet at a church very close to you. I went through it myself for a few times and felt so passionate about the material and helping others going through Divorce that I started teaching the class.

 

Good Luck to you! It does get better, but it takes a lot of time to heal.

Edited November 22, 2016 by MadJackBird

[eye of the storm]

HtP, I think you misunderstood why my kids have a guarded relationship with their father. It isn't because he had an A. They really don't care about that.

 

It was his behavior after he left that damaged their relationship. He was trying so hard to force them to choose. He talked bad about me. He chose himself and his needs over theirs.

 

When we were separating they needed their father to be their father...and he wasn't. That is the only thing they care about. That is why they built that wall.

 

When they need to vent about him, the issues that upset them are all about their relationship with him. Not his and mine.

 

Your children are not going to have a bad relationship with their mother because she had an A. They will not care. They will remember who stood at their side. Who showed up at games/concerts. Who made hot chocolate when they were sad. Who picked them up from the movies.

 

What do you want your children to remember about you? Ugly texts or love and support.

 

And you can love and support them from China. You cannot love and support them while planning on using them as weapons.

[MadJackBird]

HtP, I think you misunderstood why my kids have a guarded relationship with their father. It isn't because he had an A. They really don't care about that.

 

It was his behavior after he left that damaged their relationship. He was trying so hard to force them to choose. He talked bad about me. He chose himself and his needs over theirs.

 

When we were separating they needed their father to be their father...and he wasn't. That is the only thing they care about. That is why they built that wall.

 

When they need to vent about him, the issues that upset them are all about their relationship with him. Not his and mine.

 

Your children are not going to have a bad relationship with their mother because she had an A. They will not care. They will remember who stood at their side. Who showed up at games/concerts. Who made hot chocolate when they were sad. Who picked them up from the movies.

 

What do you want your children to remember about you? Ugly texts or love and support.

 

And you can love and support them from China. You cannot love and support them while planning on using them as weapons.

 

Well said. Yes you can love and support from China, but it makes it harder, because you can't go to the activities and concerts and make hot chocolate.

[eye of the storm]

Well said. Yes you can love and support from China, but it makes it harder, because you can't go to the activities and concerts and make hot chocolate.

 

It does make it harder. I have friends while deployed that spend time every day working on homework with their kids via FT/Skype/Viber/Hangout. They don't have a choice about being gone but they do have a choice to be involved. If not homework reading stories together. Talking. Just letting their kids know they are important.

 

When I'm overseas working, my kids know how to call me and I call them all the time. We all work on maintaining the contact and the relationship.

 

In regards to HtP, I was in the camp of stick around. But the more he talked, the more I think maybe him leaving will give him time for this self centered bitterness to die down and hopefully he can refocus on what is important. His children. He is so focused on his hatred of her that he is forgetting them. I worry about them.

[Noirek]

HowtoProceed,

 

An adult demands respects or leaves. Done

 

An adult accepts damage to protect those that are due it, your children.

 

Two separate issues.

 

Why did you divorce your first wife. What was the custody arrangement.

 

What is your wife's past relationship history?

 

I still don't know if your wife is/was cheating on you recently. 50/50 if maybe she just decided it is easier to divorce then do the work to reconcile. Which, is on her not you.

 

If she hadn't recently cheated on him perhaps she was just done with living with a man who is willing to abandon his children. It says a lot about his character. Both my husband and I have solid lines in our marriage child abuse and neglect. If either of us were to ever abuse/neglect are children the marriage would be over. If either of us talked easily about walking away from our children then serious IC was in order and a serious talk. Too many children are abandoned by their parents in this world.

 

If you are completely, emotionally undone and you know you cannot parent in the place you are at than you check yourself into a facility and get help. Or go to an IC. You are a parent. Your kids need you.

[Mz. Pixie]

That the **** does that have to do with you living near your kids?

 

The marriage is over. Who cares if she gets a new guy? Who cares what she does anymore?

 

It's not about YOU and your feelings, it's about your children having a goddamn father.

 

I am so frustrated with you right now.

 

SUCK IT UP. She doesnt love you, Now you can forget all the drama and focus your energy on your kids who are going to need it. And what do you do? move across the world. *rips hair out*

 

Go be with your kids

 

So, you are so selfish and whiny that you are leaving your kids to pay the price???

 

"I can't see her with OM" Seriously????

 

Your children have zero choice in this, ZERO!!!

 

And you are walking away from them and CHOOSING to live in another country all because you cannot see her with a boyfriend????

 

I was all on your side during the first initial pages of the thread but apparently you have completely lost your mind and all sense of reality in what you are doing now.

 

I'm not saying that you cannot be a good parent in another part of the country or world, if that is a choice you have to make economically or because you are at war. You are not making the choice for that reason, it is because you can't stand thinking of your wife with another man!!!!

 

I hope she gets full custody, and the max child support that can be awarded- cheater or not- you should never ever abandon your children because you can't man up to seeing your wife or ex with another person. Someone needs to be the HERO for the sake of these kids- and it's apparently not going to be you. So perhaps it will be her or OM or whoever she ends up with after you, since you didn't have the stomach to hang around for your kids.

 

Unbelievable, I have friends who would do anything to just get enough time with their kids- and you are blowing it over your own selfish feelings. News flash- you gave up the rights to that when you had children.

[CommittedToThis]

Kids are tough - they'll be fine.

 

Just like you're fine with your wife cheating on you, right?

 

You're tough, you'll be fine dude.

[Grapesofwrath]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

Hold the phone there HTP: I was not married. I was involved with a man who was married. This makes me party to his adultery, but I myself was not cheating. If you took the time to read any of my comments or threads you would know that, and you would know the regret and remorse I feel over that.

 

I have not said at any time that you are wrong to feel as you do about your wife. I am encouraging you to do the right thing as a man and a father. Clearly, you are not interested in that. You've decided what you're going to do, and you have built your rationalizations to allow it.

 

I hope you will reconsider.

[howtoproceed]

You're tough, you'll be fine dude.

 

I think I will be. I'm looking forward to this so much. I haven't had a clear thing I was looking forward to for 18 months. Just before DDay, I must had something but I can't remember what it was.

 

Well, I'm looking forward to this.

 

I've decided to land in Bangkok and travel to China overland through Cambodia and Vietnam. There is a boarder crossing near a city called Nanning. From there, I can get a sleeper train to Ningbo. That's how I intend to spend Christmas.

[Jersey born raised]

Off to join the French foreign legion, eh?

[Mz. Pixie]

Hold the phone there HTP: I was not married. I was involved with a man who was married. This makes me party to his adultery, but I myself was not cheating. If you took the time to read any of my comments or threads you would know that, and you would know the regret and remorse I feel over that.

 

I have not said at any time that you are wrong to feel as you do about your wife. I am encouraging you to do the right thing as a man and a father. Clearly, you are not interested in that. You've decided what you're going to do, and you have built your rationalizations to allow it.

 

I hope you will reconsider.

 

Exactly.

 

You will be sooooo sooooo sorry that you did this when your children have zero to do with you later in life.

[Mz. Pixie]

Off to join the French foreign legion, eh?

 

He's not interested in any good advice that he has been given here, only in doing what is easiest for him at this given moment.

[howtoproceed]

You will be sooooo sooooo sorry that you did this when your children have zero to do with you later in life.

 

I have two sons from a previous marriage that I left. Their mom was faithful but our goals in life diverged so off I went and right into the arms of a lying cheat. My sons and i get along great! I'll be spending Thanksgiving with them and I bet my ex asks us all to spend the night at her house. My ex, my mom and my brother are all close friends.

 

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a family and how people should behave in each of those roles. You are a very self-righteous and an angry woman. I'm guessing you husband did you in the worst way so I get it because it happened to me. But you are wrong - I will have my daughters in the same way I have my sons. They are mine. They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

What's on my mind: China - wow! I always thought Chinese girls were cute but I had no idea they were so into American guys. I'm getting Skype invites from girls 20 years younger than me!

 

Please yall - pray my visa comes through. Pray for me Z-visa!

[aileD]

They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

Unfortunately they aren't inanimate objects to put on a shelf until you get over your vindictiveness towards your wife. They aren't property either.

 

They'll remember that they weren't your priority and someday when you're ready to prioritize them back in your life they'll most likely not want you there

 

I feel bad for you. You can't see thru your anger. My husband cheated on me too. It messed me up for a long time. But I was still there for my kids though. Every single day.

 

And that's what they remember. They're mad at their dad. But not for cheating---for leaving them.

 

Have fun with your 20 year old Chinese girls. I'm sure there is a totally legitimate reason they want to hook up with an American man twice their age

[Mz. Pixie]

I have two sons from a previous marriage that I left. Their mom was faithful but our goals in life diverged so off I went and right into the arms of a lying cheat. My sons and i get along great! I'll be spending Thanksgiving with them and I bet my ex asks us all to spend the night at her house. My ex, my mom and my brother are all close friends.

 

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a family and how people should behave in each of those roles. You are a very self-righteous and an angry woman. I'm guessing you husband did you in the worst way so I get it because it happened to me. But you are wrong - I will have my daughters in the same way I have my sons. They are mine. They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

What's on my mind: China - wow! I always thought Chinese girls were cute but I had no idea they were so into American guys. I'm getting Skype invites from girls 20 years younger than me!

 

Please yall - pray my visa comes through. Pray for me Z-visa!

 

Actually I'm not self righteous or narrow minded. I've been here a very long time. And my opinions are actually sought after.

 

I'm not here asking for advice on my relationship so there is no need to divert attention from your lack to of manhood in sacking up for your kids to me.

 

Kids are supposed to be your primary focus. You can't just put them up and take them back out just when you feel the need but hey,maybe that was one of the problems in your marriage.

 

But go ahead and prop yourself up with your comments about the ladies wanting to flirt with you. I'm sure it will be a real turn on to a real woman who might be interested when she finds out your self esteem was so fragile you bailed on your kids so as not to see their mom date.

 

You read it right. Fragile self esteem is what's causing you to behave this way. Enjoy. I will take my self righteous opinions elsewhere.

 

But before I go let me make one thing crystal clear. You are responsible for your behavior. Not her. So the only thing she will need to explain is that you bailed rather than stick around because of being immature. She won't be taking the blame for your actions on any planet where anything makes sense-but you go ahead and tell yourself that.

[Mz. Pixie]

Unfortunately they aren't inanimate objects to put on a shelf until you get over your vindictiveness towards your wife. They aren't property either.

 

They'll remember that they weren't your priority and someday when you're ready to prioritize them back in your life they'll most likely not want you there

 

I feel bad for you. You can't see thru your anger. My husband cheated on me too. It messed me up for a long time. But I was still there for my kids though. Every single day.

 

And that's what they remember. They're mad at their dad. But not for cheating---for leaving them.

 

Have fun with your 20 year old Chinese girls. I'm sure there is a totally legitimate reason they want to hook up with an American man twice their age

 

Laughable isn't it?

 

It's ok. His girls will probably have a man step up in his place. It won't compare to how it would be if their dad actually pulled his head out of his rear and stopped playing the victim but hopefully it will help.

 

She will need to take the blame for that! As if! I'm beginning to see why this didn't work out for them.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Mz. Pixie

[Jersey born raised]

Agreed Ms Pixie,

 

He is confusing to issues. His daughters are his and only his. When a poster looking for advise in when there spouse brings another person into their children's life I advise them: YOU AND ONLY YOU ARE THEIR FATHER/MOTHER the other person Canberra an "uncle/aunt or teacher/mentor press role model for them but not a parent.

[dreamingoftigers]

@dreamingoftigers

 

 

 

I'll see them Summers and alternating Christmas and I'll Skype regularly.

Its called a visitation schedule and you know what, if I was going overseas to kill little Muslim babies in the name of a democracy that you say can terminate my parental rights at the drop of a hat, I bet you'd start waving a flag then.

 

So how about that - all those military men off to fight our wars and leaving their kids behind? Will those kids ever recover?

 

Actually,

 

1. I'm not American. I'm.from.a country that took on refugees from the Syrian conflict and voted in a way that encouraged that. I wave MY FLAG a little prouder.

2. My best friend is Muslim and I think Islamophobia is disgusting.

3. I'm not the one who said they would terminate your parental rights. And even that person said the mother in your case may petition the court to do so

4. You aren't providing a nationally recognized service in the name of corporate interest, so the whole military comparison doesn't get you a pass.

5. I don't think it is healthy for childhood development for a parent to be away on military service anyhow. Say what you will, the developing brain isn't going to wait for you to slay people.

6. A lot of those kids WON'T recover and can't get those years back.

7. Your idea of parenting is pathetic. Nice try.

8. Aren't YOU American? Isn't that a little ironic?

[dreamingoftigers]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

 

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

Apparently you don't need to be a "cheater" to not care about your kids.

[dreamingoftigers]

Exactly.

 

You will be sooooo sooooo sorry that you did this when your children have zero to do with you later in life.

 

Nah, they'll give that relationship with Dad the "old college try" until they reaffirm that it's a waste of time.

 

Plus he's just assuming that visitation schedule will work out exactly how he wants.

 

Why should the courts give him summer holidays in a foreign country?

[dreamingoftigers]

I have two sons from a previous marriage that I left. Their mom was faithful but our goals in life diverged so off I went and right into the arms of a lying cheat. My sons and i get along great! I'll be spending Thanksgiving with them and I bet my ex asks us all to spend the night at her house. My ex, my mom and my brother are all close friends.

 

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a family and how people should behave in each of those roles. You are a very self-righteous and an angry woman. I'm guessing you husband did you in the worst way so I get it because it happened to me. But you are wrong - I will have my daughters in the same way I have my sons. They are mine. They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

What's on my mind: China - wow! I always thought Chinese girls were cute but I had no idea they were so into American guys. I'm getting Skype invites from girls 20 years younger than me!

 

Please yall - pray my visa comes through. Pray for me Z-visa!

 

Wow. Look at the immature man try to bait you!

 

So you chucked your sons the same way?

 

Or was the fallout less nuclear. Because it sounds that way.

 

As a mother, regardless of your wishes, if you abandoned our daughter I would not smooth the path for you in any way. That would be YOUR choice and you would have to deal with the consequences. It's pretty clear you wouldn't handle that.

 

I doubt your daughters and sons will take the same path.

 

I wonder if you asked your son's for an honest opinion on this what they would say.