Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[Jersey born raised]

Off to join the French foreign legion, eh?

[Mz. Pixie]

Hold the phone there HTP: I was not married. I was involved with a man who was married. This makes me party to his adultery, but I myself was not cheating. If you took the time to read any of my comments or threads you would know that, and you would know the regret and remorse I feel over that.

 

I have not said at any time that you are wrong to feel as you do about your wife. I am encouraging you to do the right thing as a man and a father. Clearly, you are not interested in that. You've decided what you're going to do, and you have built your rationalizations to allow it.

 

I hope you will reconsider.

 

Exactly.

 

You will be sooooo sooooo sorry that you did this when your children have zero to do with you later in life.

[Mz. Pixie]

Off to join the French foreign legion, eh?

 

He's not interested in any good advice that he has been given here, only in doing what is easiest for him at this given moment.

[howtoproceed]

You will be sooooo sooooo sorry that you did this when your children have zero to do with you later in life.

 

I have two sons from a previous marriage that I left. Their mom was faithful but our goals in life diverged so off I went and right into the arms of a lying cheat. My sons and i get along great! I'll be spending Thanksgiving with them and I bet my ex asks us all to spend the night at her house. My ex, my mom and my brother are all close friends.

 

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a family and how people should behave in each of those roles. You are a very self-righteous and an angry woman. I'm guessing you husband did you in the worst way so I get it because it happened to me. But you are wrong - I will have my daughters in the same way I have my sons. They are mine. They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

What's on my mind: China - wow! I always thought Chinese girls were cute but I had no idea they were so into American guys. I'm getting Skype invites from girls 20 years younger than me!

 

Please yall - pray my visa comes through. Pray for me Z-visa!

[aileD]

They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

Unfortunately they aren't inanimate objects to put on a shelf until you get over your vindictiveness towards your wife. They aren't property either.

 

They'll remember that they weren't your priority and someday when you're ready to prioritize them back in your life they'll most likely not want you there

 

I feel bad for you. You can't see thru your anger. My husband cheated on me too. It messed me up for a long time. But I was still there for my kids though. Every single day.

 

And that's what they remember. They're mad at their dad. But not for cheating---for leaving them.

 

Have fun with your 20 year old Chinese girls. I'm sure there is a totally legitimate reason they want to hook up with an American man twice their age

[Mz. Pixie]

I have two sons from a previous marriage that I left. Their mom was faithful but our goals in life diverged so off I went and right into the arms of a lying cheat. My sons and i get along great! I'll be spending Thanksgiving with them and I bet my ex asks us all to spend the night at her house. My ex, my mom and my brother are all close friends.

 

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a family and how people should behave in each of those roles. You are a very self-righteous and an angry woman. I'm guessing you husband did you in the worst way so I get it because it happened to me. But you are wrong - I will have my daughters in the same way I have my sons. They are mine. They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

What's on my mind: China - wow! I always thought Chinese girls were cute but I had no idea they were so into American guys. I'm getting Skype invites from girls 20 years younger than me!

 

Please yall - pray my visa comes through. Pray for me Z-visa!

 

Actually I'm not self righteous or narrow minded. I've been here a very long time. And my opinions are actually sought after.

 

I'm not here asking for advice on my relationship so there is no need to divert attention from your lack to of manhood in sacking up for your kids to me.

 

Kids are supposed to be your primary focus. You can't just put them up and take them back out just when you feel the need but hey,maybe that was one of the problems in your marriage.

 

But go ahead and prop yourself up with your comments about the ladies wanting to flirt with you. I'm sure it will be a real turn on to a real woman who might be interested when she finds out your self esteem was so fragile you bailed on your kids so as not to see their mom date.

 

You read it right. Fragile self esteem is what's causing you to behave this way. Enjoy. I will take my self righteous opinions elsewhere.

 

But before I go let me make one thing crystal clear. You are responsible for your behavior. Not her. So the only thing she will need to explain is that you bailed rather than stick around because of being immature. She won't be taking the blame for your actions on any planet where anything makes sense-but you go ahead and tell yourself that.

[Mz. Pixie]

Unfortunately they aren't inanimate objects to put on a shelf until you get over your vindictiveness towards your wife. They aren't property either.

 

They'll remember that they weren't your priority and someday when you're ready to prioritize them back in your life they'll most likely not want you there

 

I feel bad for you. You can't see thru your anger. My husband cheated on me too. It messed me up for a long time. But I was still there for my kids though. Every single day.

 

And that's what they remember. They're mad at their dad. But not for cheating---for leaving them.

 

Have fun with your 20 year old Chinese girls. I'm sure there is a totally legitimate reason they want to hook up with an American man twice their age

 

Laughable isn't it?

 

It's ok. His girls will probably have a man step up in his place. It won't compare to how it would be if their dad actually pulled his head out of his rear and stopped playing the victim but hopefully it will help.

 

She will need to take the blame for that! As if! I'm beginning to see why this didn't work out for them.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Mz. Pixie

[Jersey born raised]

Agreed Ms Pixie,

 

He is confusing to issues. His daughters are his and only his. When a poster looking for advise in when there spouse brings another person into their children's life I advise them: YOU AND ONLY YOU ARE THEIR FATHER/MOTHER the other person Canberra an "uncle/aunt or teacher/mentor press role model for them but not a parent.

[dreamingoftigers]

@dreamingoftigers

 

 

 

I'll see them Summers and alternating Christmas and I'll Skype regularly.

Its called a visitation schedule and you know what, if I was going overseas to kill little Muslim babies in the name of a democracy that you say can terminate my parental rights at the drop of a hat, I bet you'd start waving a flag then.

 

So how about that - all those military men off to fight our wars and leaving their kids behind? Will those kids ever recover?

 

Actually,

 

1. I'm not American. I'm.from.a country that took on refugees from the Syrian conflict and voted in a way that encouraged that. I wave MY FLAG a little prouder.

2. My best friend is Muslim and I think Islamophobia is disgusting.

3. I'm not the one who said they would terminate your parental rights. And even that person said the mother in your case may petition the court to do so

4. You aren't providing a nationally recognized service in the name of corporate interest, so the whole military comparison doesn't get you a pass.

5. I don't think it is healthy for childhood development for a parent to be away on military service anyhow. Say what you will, the developing brain isn't going to wait for you to slay people.

6. A lot of those kids WON'T recover and can't get those years back.

7. Your idea of parenting is pathetic. Nice try.

8. Aren't YOU American? Isn't that a little ironic?

[dreamingoftigers]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

 

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

Apparently you don't need to be a "cheater" to not care about your kids.

[dreamingoftigers]

Exactly.

 

You will be sooooo sooooo sorry that you did this when your children have zero to do with you later in life.

 

Nah, they'll give that relationship with Dad the "old college try" until they reaffirm that it's a waste of time.

 

Plus he's just assuming that visitation schedule will work out exactly how he wants.

 

Why should the courts give him summer holidays in a foreign country?

[dreamingoftigers]

I have two sons from a previous marriage that I left. Their mom was faithful but our goals in life diverged so off I went and right into the arms of a lying cheat. My sons and i get along great! I'll be spending Thanksgiving with them and I bet my ex asks us all to spend the night at her house. My ex, my mom and my brother are all close friends.

 

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes a family and how people should behave in each of those roles. You are a very self-righteous and an angry woman. I'm guessing you husband did you in the worst way so I get it because it happened to me. But you are wrong - I will have my daughters in the same way I have my sons. They are mine. They just aren't a priority in my mind at this particular point in time and that's thanks to their mom. She'll need to make up for that and fix it as best they can.

 

What's on my mind: China - wow! I always thought Chinese girls were cute but I had no idea they were so into American guys. I'm getting Skype invites from girls 20 years younger than me!

 

Please yall - pray my visa comes through. Pray for me Z-visa!

 

Wow. Look at the immature man try to bait you!

 

So you chucked your sons the same way?

 

Or was the fallout less nuclear. Because it sounds that way.

 

As a mother, regardless of your wishes, if you abandoned our daughter I would not smooth the path for you in any way. That would be YOUR choice and you would have to deal with the consequences. It's pretty clear you wouldn't handle that.

 

I doubt your daughters and sons will take the same path.

 

I wonder if you asked your son's for an honest opinion on this what they would say.

[Mz. Pixie]

Apparently you don't need to be a "cheater" to not care about your kids.

 

See this right here. He feels justified in what he's doing so much he's failing to realize that we are trying to help him.

 

He point blank admitted they are not of concern to him for now.

 

Instead he would rather make comments about those helping him and justify more.

[dreamingoftigers]

See this right here. He feels justified in what he's doing so much he's failing to realize that we are trying to help him.

 

He point blank admitted they are not of concern to him for now.

 

Instead he would rather make comments about those helping him and justify more.

 

Well, at least he's indefensible now to those who thought he was just having fantasies or kidding around.

 

That's right folks! He means it! And apparently his first set of kids already dealt with similar behaviour.

 

His children are supposed to be tougher and handle the circumstance better than he did!

[Mz. Pixie]

Oh yes, I have no doubt your mom and brother are close to your son's mom. After all she raised them it sounds like.

[SoleMate]

howtoproceed, don't move to China. Stay near your daughters, they need you.

 

If Skyping and summers is enough to form and maintain a deeply meaningful and fulfilling personal relationship, then you can stay near your daughters and just Skype and vacation with all the women in China who for whatever pathetic reason look at you as a great opportunity.

 

STOP PUNISHING YOUR BLAMELESS DAUGHTERS for the legitimate grievances you have with their mother. This isn't the Old Testament time, it's not fair to visit the sins of the mother on the daughter. It's cruel. In my view, abandonment is often even crueler than many common forms of physical abuse, as to the suffering and lifelong damage it can cause.....alienation, guilt, insecurity, impaired relationship ability, depression, sleep and eating disorders etc.

 

As far as the "military service" red herring, nice try but it won't fly. Most of those deployed parents would give anything to be back home and they make their worlds revolve around their kids. We could discuss further if it were relevant but fundamentally, the whole line of thought just equals, "other people do stuff that is either wrong or might be wrong and so I naturally am entitled to race to the bottom and deliberately make my behavior equally bad, or even far worse regardless of the pain it causes the little innocent people who depend on me". NO.

 

Or if you must travel to China, make your first stop there a clinic for a cut rate vasectomy to avoid creating any more children you will then abandon. Thanks.

[eye of the storm]

I think in the best interest of his children we should not argue with him to stay. Right now, he is not in a good place to put his children first. Can you picture him right now, in his current mindset, having a healthy interaction with his girls? I can't.

 

HtP, go to China. Have fun. Tell your girls you just need to get your head right and heal. They will forgive you taking a year or so off way easier than having you pour bitterness on them now.

 

When you talk to them focus on them. Don't ask questions about their mother. Don't ask questions about her dating or other men. Just how is school, anything fun going on at girl scouts...things like that. Just focus on them. If they are interested in a book/movie series, read/watch them and talk to them about it.

 

My kids and I have spent many hours talking about their fav series. They like knowing I am interested enough to join on their fandoms. Years later, I still poke at my daughter about figuring out Snape was a good guy before the book revealed it. I preordered the books and had one shipped to her and one to me.

 

Simple things. Things that don't cost a lot except in time and caring.

 

Holding onto hate for your xW will do nothing but damage your children. Holding on to the bitterness is like eating rat poison and waiting for the rat to die. All you are doing is punishing the wrong person. In this case you are punishing your children.

 

Go to China. heal let go

[howtoproceed]

HtP, go to China. Have fun. Tell your girls you just need to get your head right and heal. They will forgive you taking a year or so off way easier than having you pour bitterness on them now.

 

This is excellent advice and exactly what I'm talking about. If I was to get a rat hole apartment right now just to be near my daughters while my wife live in a 2500 sqft 4BR house - it isn't that it wouldn't be fair, it just wouldn't be happy for anyone except possibly my wife.

[howtoproceed]

All excellent advice - some posters here should try and control their urge to moralize and act all self-righteous and throw insults. Its not helpful. Take a look and at least see what good advice looks like:

 

When you talk to them focus on them. Don't ask questions about their mother. Don't ask questions about her dating or other men. Just how is school, anything fun going on at girl scouts...things like that. Just focus on them. If they are interested in a book/movie series, read/watch them and talk to them about it.

 

Good general principles advice - focus on the kids not the stbx.

I will try.

 

My kids and I have spent many hours talking about their fav series. They like knowing I am interested enough to join on their fandoms. Years later, I still poke at my daughter about figuring out Snape was a good guy before the book revealed it. I preordered the books and had one shipped to her and one to me.

 

Good practical advice.

My older daughter is only just turned 9 but she is into that Goth look and spooky books. This is something I could start with her now and carry it over to China.

 

Simple things. Things that don't cost a lot except in time and caring.

 

Words of encouragement - much appreciated.

 

Holding onto hate for your xW will do nothing but damage your children. Holding on to the bitterness is like eating rat poison and waiting for the rat to die. All you are doing is punishing the wrong person. In this case you are punishing your children.

 

An appropriate admonishment to not hold onto the anger, which is actually one of main reasons for me to leave. I've been with 18 months since DDay and if anything, I think I feel more angry from rolling things over in my head time and time again.

 

Go to China. heal let go

 

Exactly!

[Mz. Pixie]

All excellent advice - some posters here should try and control their urge to moralize and act all self-righteous and throw insults. Its not helpful. Take a look and at least see what good advice looks like:

 

 

 

Good general principles advice - focus on the kids not the stbx.

I will try.

 

 

 

Good practical advice.

My older daughter is only just turned 9 but she is into that Goth look and spooky books. This is something I could start with her now and carry it over to China.

 

 

 

Words of encouragement - much appreciated.

 

 

 

An appropriate admonishment to not hold onto the anger, which is actually one of main reasons for me to leave. I've been with 18 months since DDay and if anything, I think I feel more angry from rolling things over in my head time and time again.

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

You only find it good advice because it aligns with what you want to hear.

 

I'm not in that business. The reason why is because decisions have far reaching affects- such as this- and my concern is the overall picture based on what you have told us. At this point you're not thinking rationally so I decided to think about your daughter's first.

 

It makes no difference to me whether you think I'm judgmental. I'm not in that business either.

 

Let's see- at least four people tell you not to leave and admonish you for doing so but one says stay- and it's just the BEST advice ever.

 

Why would you need to live in a hovel while she lives in a 2500 sq ft home? Because you would have to pay support and as it stands since you are going to China you can bail on that obligation? I don't understand the difference unless you are planning on not paying what you should be paying.

[Mz. Pixie]

I think in the best interest of his children we should not argue with him to stay. Right now, he is not in a good place to put his children first. Can you picture him right now, in his current mindset, having a healthy interaction with his girls? I can't.

 

HtP, go to China. Have fun. Tell your girls you just need to get your head right and heal. They will forgive you taking a year or so off way easier than having you pour bitterness on them now.

 

When you talk to them focus on them. Don't ask questions about their mother. Don't ask questions about her dating or other men. Just how is school, anything fun going on at girl scouts...things like that. Just focus on them. If they are interested in a book/movie series, read/watch them and talk to them about it.

 

My kids and I have spent many hours talking about their fav series. They like knowing I am interested enough to join on their fandoms. Years later, I still poke at my daughter about figuring out Snape was a good guy before the book revealed it. I preordered the books and had one shipped to her and one to me.

 

Simple things. Things that don't cost a lot except in time and caring.

 

Holding onto hate for your xW will do nothing but damage your children. Holding on to the bitterness is like eating rat poison and waiting for the rat to die. All you are doing is punishing the wrong person. In this case you are punishing your children.

 

Go to China. heal let go

 

Parents don't get to bail on parenting. I don't know your situation and I'm not judging you- but to bail on his girls because he can't stand to see his wife with someone else is not good enough reason in my opinion and several others here.

 

He never said he was taking a temporary respite.

 

The point is that the mom doesn't get to just bail on her kids because her situation has gotten tough for her and neither should he. He made these children and he should help take care of them, her sexual history or future history is irrelevant in that part of the equation. He does not have to be married to her in order to co parent.

 

I can't picture him having a healthy interaction with them right now, which is the part that I do agree with you on, however he can avail himself of counseling, which is what most normal parents do when this happens. He is not any more hurt or grieved than anyone else whose marriage has ended- he is just handling it differently than most normal people do.

[eye of the storm]

Mz Pixie, I am normally in the be a human and take care of your children camp. The thought of leaving my kids...I don't know how people do it. (I do leave for 6-12 months occasionally for work but it is never my choice)

 

The only reason I stated for him to take off is, in his case, I think he will do less damage to his children by leaving than by staying and using them as weapons and pawns in his campaign to hurt his xW.

 

I was just thinking what would damage them less and advice on how to do that.

 

Yes, he should get therapy. And yes he should do whatever it takes to stick around. But all he can focus on is hurting his xW and using the children to do that.

 

By his leaving his children and xW can find a peaceful place and move on.

 

I do think its a bit funny that he was touting my advice as so amazing since he was so crappy to Grapes of Wrath for being an OW...seeing as I was one too.

[howtoproceed]

I do think its a bit funny that he was touting my advice as so amazing since he was so crappy to Grapes of Wrath for being an OW...seeing as I was one too.

 

The advice was good and your reasoning about doing the least damage to my children and myself included is spot on. However the fact that you are a cheater on the one hand and then on the other advise therapy for issues caused by cheating irritates me. It's like a drunk driver advising the rest of us to take on more automobile coverage. I'll just leave you with this thought: they is at least one person that hates you a whole lot more than you can ever imagine no matter what the look on their face and will mark the day you die with a smile.

 

@Mz_Pixie

 

I was trying to decide what the stupidest thing you said in your latest self righteous rant and I decided on this:

 

... however he can avail himself of counseling, which is what most normal parents do when this happens ...

 

Most normal people don't cheat and especially normal women so the situation I'm in is not normal to begin with.

[eye of the storm]

I was cheated on so I understand the pain that have betrayed spouse feels. And therapy does help when you are dealing with either a normal or a non normal situation. I went through a self-destructive phase and that is when I got involved with a married man.

 

So yes it is like a drunk driver telling you to get more insurance. Because I have been through and seeing the damage from both sides that this can cause. I know how desperately that insurance is needed.

 

And in my case his wife doesn't hate me. I am just one in a long chain of women that he has cheated on her with. I wasn't the first and I highly doubt I will be the last. To her I am merely a blip on their radar.

 

But no matter how self-destructive I got, my children always came first. And I put their needs over my desires to hurt their dad.

 

My kids are adults now. And both have told me they could tell how hard things were for me after their dad left and everything landed on me. And they appreciated how I kept them out of the fray as much as I could.

 

If looking at your daughters makes you feel nothing but anger at your xW. The kindest thing you can do is walk away. Children need love and support. They are not pawns, weapons, or bargaining chips.

[Mz. Pixie]

The advice was good and your reasoning about doing the least damage to my children and myself included is spot on. However the fact that you are a cheater on the one hand and then on the other advise therapy for issues caused by cheating irritates me. It's like a drunk driver advising the rest of us to take on more automobile coverage. I'll just leave you with this thought: they is at least one person that hates you a whole lot more than you can ever imagine no matter what the look on their face and will mark the day you die with a smile.

 

@Mz_Pixie

 

I was trying to decide what the stupidest thing you said in your latest self righteous rant and I decided on this:

 

 

 

Most normal people don't cheat and especially normal women so the situation I'm in is not normal to begin with.

 

And you yourself just proved what I said before. You believe that this pain is unique to you and therefore means you should react this way.

 

You certainly wouldn't think that way if you'd been on this forum as long as I have. Or any other forum.

 

50 percent of all marriages end in divorce.

 

Second marriage percentages are even higher.

 

Cheating is pretty common. You need to get over thinking you're special even if it feels unique to you it isn't.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Mz. Pixie