Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[Mz. Pixie]

I am the child of a narcissistic father. My mother was the child of a narcissistic father as well. They ARE NOT the most loving and it typically causes (if unchecked) lifelong damage. Most narcissists can't engage with their children on any meaningful level and often expect the kids to meet THEIR needs.

 

 

 

That's why you stay near them and PARENT. You find something reasonably close. You were (are?) obviously working before and could provide that stability to them. Since they are minors, your influence is just that, influential.

 

But I honestly see eye of the storm's point. If you would only be around to be vindictive or information-gathering about their mother, then of course they would feel like they have nothing other to offer YOU.

 

 

 

NO, she handed you the license to leave the marriage without any debate, discussion or marital counseling etc.

 

No one "gave you the license" to run out on your children. Your kids DIDN'T CHEAT ON YOU.

 

 

 

So, it was up to your daughters to stop her from cheating?

Because they are the ones who lose a father for it. Your wife doesn't care about "losing a husband." She threw you away with both hands and hasn't asked for you back. In fact, the only thing your leaving to China does it reinforce to your wife that she was right to disrespect your relationship.

 

And only shows your daughters that they weren't worth trying to be a Dad for.

 

 

 

Not a single person is knocking you leaving your wife.

Not a single one.

Refusing co-parenting and leaving your children behind with the absolute minimum support with alternating holidays "maybe" is what everyone on the thread since is commenting on. Leaving YOUR CHILDREN.

 

And THAT is VILE.

 

Not your "cock-sarking wife's" children.

Not "some other guy's" children.

YOUR CHILDREN.

 

 

 

Women who are family-oriented look at the man they want and see if he is family-oriented or full of hot air.

 

It sounds like you have already decided to dump off the second set of children.

 

Only a very foolish woman would volunteer to have the third set. More likely, one that ISN'T actually family-oriented would volunteer for the role and just not care that much about you or the kids.

 

This is exactly what I've been trying to say over and over. His thinking only of himself and future nooky smacks of narcissism itself.

 

Yes, totally the kids should pay the price and they should Blame her for taking away their dad. Not! But this is actually what he thinks will happen.

 

Wow. Just wow.

[Grapesofwrath]

@ Grapes of Wrath

 

An admitted cheater here calling me out for not caring enough for my kids.

How dare you!

 

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

[howtoproceed]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

 

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

[Noirek]

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

 

No, a dictionary defintion... if it wasn't so sad you shirking personal responsibility for your actions it would be funny. But its not because of the innocent children involved who mean less to you than your own ego and happiness. They have to be strong and resiliant while who get to run off and have your fun. There are thousands of parents who shouldn't be parents just like you and it makes me sad. I hope you wake up soon but I think perhaps this runs deeper than just recent events. And unless you are willing to seek real help and change... you won't and they are better off without a father that would use them as a weapon as others have said. Children should never be put on the back burner or shelved to be taken down when it suits the parent.

 

And narcissists don't make good parents. They use their kids and then abandon them when they no longer fill a need.

[Mz. Pixie]

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

 

He will dismiss everything that doesn't fit with what he wants as this. He's acting as if we have asked him to stay with his cheating wife. When all we have said is that he shouldn't bail on his children.

 

This seems like narcissistic injury to me.

[howtoproceed]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

Narcissists respond to narcissistic injury as if it's a serious criticism, a total rejection, a definite threat to their very existence.

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

The response is swift, intense and very often out of proportion. It is called narcissistic rage and can vary from totally ignoring the source to verbal and physical violence.

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

[DKT3]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

 

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

 

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

After my wife's affair and the subsequent divorce I went looking for ego and self-esteem boost in other women, many many women. While there was some instant gratification, long term it's empty and unfulfilling.

 

Really that is minor, what isn't is you being there for your girls.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

I am sure you could get lots of dates in the US or wherever you are from. Men near me in their 40s have their pick. These women just want to marry you and move to your country.

[eye of the storm]

HtP, Not being mean here. Just realistic. There is only one reason these young girls are interested in you. Money or a Visa.

 

It is so common we are counseled about it before going to some areas.

 

But you don't care about that either. Just go already. China awaits!

[howtoproceed]

These women just want to marry you and move to your country.

 

I'm 55 and I don't see myself getting too many knock-out 35 y/o here in the States. I'm aware that they may want to marry me so they can come to America. I've reading up on this over the past few weeks and I would never take one of these girls to America. I could see marrying though. I'm just young enough to make it work.

 

The girl from Shanghai that wants to meet me, we have been chatting about best places to retire in China. In her opinion, it's Xiamen but the point is, I'm careful to steer conversations away from America and it works. Also, many of these women are divorced with a kid. Maybe they want a husband to help out. The most hurtful thing I've dealt with in a marriage is infidelity. I would have no problem with a faithful wife who married me because I was a good provider.

 

You are overstating - many want to marry and go to USA but many want to marry and stay in China.

[Mz. Pixie]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

 

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

 

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

First of all, for you to think I reigned in my comments due to anything you said would be terribly short sided on your part. This is a public forum and you came here asking for advice. And thanks for calling me a character as I most certainly am but it all of the best ways.

 

I don't particularly care how many women you pursue, how many you bed or any of the like. I've never once said your wife was right for anything she's done. Nor did I say you shouldn't divorce her or otherwise. Actually I was on your side with that. You're refusing to see that because the one thing I'm telling you that you don't like. I am actually on your side.

 

In real life even if I don't like someone personally I'm able to see objectively the things they do right and what they do wrong. My personality type is The Counselor.

 

My mother had a narcissistic personality disorder so I feel uniquely qualified on that topic. If you even whiff that your wife actually suffers from this you definitely should not leave your children and go away.

 

I'm on your side because I'm trying to get you not to do something you will regret. And that will harm your children. I don't think it's judgmental. Especially since I've been through some tough stuff myself. Way harder than infidelity and I know how to survive. There is no way however any storm this side of hell could get me to bail on my children.

 

Enjoy your women. But please reconsider leaving your daughter cheers. They need they dads.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Mz. Pixie

[dreamingoftigers]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2]

 

Cheater talk and cheater logic.

 

Oh look Grapesofwrath, he provided a perfect example for you.

 

I'm not a cheater and it defining ad hominem attacks makes sense to me. Maybe " some special logic" applies to Non-Cheaters and Cheaters.

 

I guess this section of the thread could be called "Abandoning Father talk and Abandoning Father logic."

[dreamingoftigers]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

 

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

 

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

And what exactly do you think her agenda would be meeting a man 17 years her senior that isn't even divorced yet 12 seconds after you reach China?

 

I'm sure it's not "how can I can be one of many women throwing my vagina at him?"

[Mz. Pixie]

And what exactly do you think her agenda would be meeting a man 17 years her senior that isn't even divorced yet 12 seconds after you reach China?

 

I'm sure it's not "how can I can be one of many women throwing my vagina at him?"

 

I would say survival not interest.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm 55 and I don't see myself getting too many knock-out 35 y/o here in the States. I'm aware that they may want to marry me so they can come to America. I've reading up on this over the past few weeks and I would never take one of these girls to America. I could see marrying though. I'm just young enough to make it work.

 

The girl from Shanghai that wants to meet me, we have been chatting about best places to retire in China. In her opinion, it's Xiamen but the point is, I'm careful to steer conversations away from America and it works. Also, many of these women are divorced with a kid. Maybe they want a husband to help out. The most hurtful thing I've dealt with in a marriage is infidelity. I would have no problem with a faithful wife who married me because I was a good provider.

 

You are overstating - many want to marry and go to USA but many want to marry and stay in China.

 

I'm sure your wife feels the same way about finding some "strange comfort" and finding new people.

 

Meanwhile. Who is comforting your kids?

 

I'm.shocked to see you are only a few years younger than my father and he was actually diagnosed as NPD. The irony is he wouldn't be so reckless.

 

Slow clap. You are actually making my actual NPD father look good. I'd call him and thank him, but he would get so nauseating about it I just can't

[dreamingoftigers]

I would say survival not interest.

 

I don't know the motivation so I won't say survival or interest.

 

But I would say over-interest, especially long before meeting in a foreign country would be a red flag to me and I think it should be a red flag to HtP too.

[Married1988]

I have read this entire thread.

 

I'm speechless, to say the least. At first, I felt bad for the original poster. No one is telling you; you need to stay in an unhealthy marriage. But what you are doing to your children is so incredibly selfish. If you are planning on using your kids as a weapon to get back to your wife, then you are going to backfire. The children may be upset with their mom for the affair breaking up their family, but they'll remember your actions of selfishness a lot more. Don't abandoned your kids in another country. They don't deserve that.

[Mz. Pixie]

I have read this entire thread.

 

I'm speechless, to say the least. At first, I felt bad for the original poster. No one is telling you; you need to stay in an unhealthy marriage. But what you are doing to your children is so incredibly selfish. If you are planning on using your kids as a weapon to get back to your wife, then you are going to backfire. The children may be upset with their mom for the affair breaking up their family, but they'll remember your actions of selfishness a lot more. Don't abandoned your kids in another country. They don't deserve that.

 

We have been trying to tell him this but he dismisses it as "Cheater logic". Thanks for weighing in

[Zenstudent]

I don't agree with the thought of leaving the kids with a toxic wife, but I don't agree with the "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

There must be some middle ground somewhere.

[howtoproceed]

I don't agree with the thought of leaving the kids with a toxic wife, but I don't agree with the "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

There must be some middle ground somewhere.

 

Walking away is the middle ground.

 

One extreme is "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

The other extreme is I kill her.

 

I bet Lt. Joe Kendra would support my decision to walk away.

[eye of the storm]

Years ago a good friend of my xH told me all of the things my X was saying about me. According to him I was a horrific wife and did all these terrible things to him and it was my fault he needed to find someone else who could love him. The guy felt bad for me cause he and his wife had seen how my X had treated me during the marriage and knew it was all a pack of imaginary lies. But he admitted, if he hadn't known me, it would have been easy to believe.

 

The reason I mentioned that...I'm starting to wonder how bad the W truly is and how much is his rage fueled fantasy.

 

I mean he can't even focus on his children with out calling her names.

 

For me, I'm taking his story with a pinch of salt. I believe she cheated, I believe there was a false R, but the over the top shenanigans.....

[eye of the storm]

The other extreme is I kill her.

 

HtP, if this is even a thought to you. You need professional help. And medication. She is the mother of your children. Please call someone and get help.

[Married1988]

I wasn't going to post again, but I do have something else I want to say.

 

I noticed you wrote about how you'll see them on Christmas Vacation and Summer Vacation while you are overseas. I didn't catch how old your children are but have you asked them how they feel about all this? Like are they okay and aware that you want to move halfway across the world to get away from their mother? You think you're doing this to hurt your wife, but have you considered. Maybe the kids will blame themselves for you leaving them. The blame isn't going to be on your wife.

 

Another thing. You're going to move to live in China, HongKong, Thailand. etc. You are underestimating what you expect to gain. There are no guarantees that you'll get all summer, Christmas Vacation. If you do manage, what are you going to do when they become teenagers and refuse to see you. Kid's don't want a Disney father, they want an involved father.

 

I have two adult children. My youngest I have to admit is a daddy's girl and my oldest isn't. When my oldest daughter was young, he wasn't really around much. He worked alot, gave her money for candy, toys to compensate. When our youngest daughter was born five years later, he spent more time at home. But by that time our oldest daughter already grew to expect her father wasn't around and became accustomed to that and it has never gotten better. They get along great but if you compare her relationship with her father to my youngest daughter's relationship with the father. It is a somber comparison.

 

I guess my point is. If you move far away from your children, they will suffer. The skyping, occasional visit, will not be enough. They won't confide in you. They'll not respect you, and will use your absences and throw it in your face.

 

Honestly, get yourself into some counselling because you are very messed up. And you don't see clearly.

[howtoproceed]

For me, I'm taking his story with a pinch of salt. I believe she cheated, I believe there was a false R, but the over the top shenanigans.....

 

Do you also believe that she did not invite me to her birthday party and got my daughters to lie about it? To me, that was on the same order of betrayal as having the affair to begin with.

 

The anecdote about your xH fits my wife not me. Other than on this site and with family, I don't talk about my wife but she trash talks me everywhere.

 

She was telling this story that was - and I quote - "unemployed for 6 months delivering pizzas." Now putting aside that I couldn't be unemployed and delivering pizzas, its trash talk. I lost my day job but got a new one in 2 mnths; I have the termination letter and new contract. When I showed her, she became angry and told me to "stop talking."

 

Do you believe that?

 

My wife is a cheater and a pathological liar with a strong support system from her "work-fam" and her Church and she intends me harm so I am fleeing. That's closer to what happening than whatever narrative you are trying to spin.

[Married1988]

Do you also believe that she did not invite me to her birthday party and got my daughters to lie about it? To me, that was on the same order of betrayal as having the affair to begin with.

 

The anecdote about your xH fits my wife not me. Other than on this site and with family, I don't talk about my wife but she trash talks me everywhere.

 

She was telling this story that was - and I quote - "unemployed for 6 months delivering pizzas." Now putting aside that I couldn't be unemployed and delivering pizzas, its trash talk. I lost my day job but got a new one in 2 mnths; I have the termination letter and new contract. When I showed her, she became angry and told me to "stop talking."

 

Do you believe that?

 

My wife is a cheater and a pathological liar with a strong support system from her "work-fam" and her Church and she intends me harm so I am fleeing. That's closer to what happening than whatever narrative you are trying to spin.

 

Then why are you running away from your children? According to you she is a good mother, but yet you claim your wife is a pathological liar, and has your daughter's lying for her. If you go through with this selfish plan of yours, kiss your relationship with your children goodbye. Good Grief!