Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[dreamingoftigers]

The number of misrepresentations, half-truths and out right lies that Mz. Pixie and Noirek were able to fit into one paragraph is astounding. I would be impressed if I weren't so disgusted. At least Mz. Pixie has taken my advice and reigned in her self-righteous tone.

 

The one misrepresentation common to both is the narcissistic personality disorder comment. What I said was, in trying to explain how my wife can be simultaneously cruel and such a loving mom is that she is a narcissist and maybe when she looks at her kids, she sees herself. That's all I said. An off hand, one sentence speculation basically irrelevant to the thread but from that, tweedle dee and teedle dum have done diagnosed me as having NPD.

 

I did google Narcissistic Injury because its just the type of word this Pixie character would make up, but turns out to be a real word. I guess you could say it fits me in this one instance. Here is what I found:

 

 

 

The total rejection here was being excluded from my wife's birthday party but I would more accurately call it the straw that broke the camels back. There was a DDay and 18 months false R leading up to that "total rejection." My point is, even non-narcissists would respond.

 

Then I read this:

 

 

 

The key phrase here is "out of proportion" and that would be me leaving my kids. I agree, a hard thing to do to my kids and possibly out of proportion. Even if it is out of proportion, its also this solitary act that's "out of proportion." I haven't been acting out of proportion for the past 18 months but only after my wife did something that was beyond the pale and demanded a response. If this is really narcissistic injury, its the only one I'm aware of in the past 18 months.

 

Leaving was the best 1st step but it created a hole. Finding a job in China and meeting girls online is filling that hole and it seems to work.

 

And about the women - I am going to admit it right now - I could never chat up women like this in the States, and they are all over me! They are just what I needed. I've moved three of them from the dating site to Skype and I'd have more except they use wechat in China much more than Skype. One of the girls I met, she is 17 years younger than me, single no kids, wants to meet me at the airport in shanghai and get me on the right Bullet Train to Chengdu.

 

Three weeks ago tomorrow, my wife can home from her birthday party and told me I wasn't invited because I was an embarrassment. Now I have a beautiful woman 17 years younger than me and 6 years younger than me wife wanting to meet me at the airport and show me around Shanghai. Things change!

 

These women are just what I needed.

 

And what exactly do you think her agenda would be meeting a man 17 years her senior that isn't even divorced yet 12 seconds after you reach China?

 

I'm sure it's not "how can I can be one of many women throwing my vagina at him?"

[Mz. Pixie]

And what exactly do you think her agenda would be meeting a man 17 years her senior that isn't even divorced yet 12 seconds after you reach China?

 

I'm sure it's not "how can I can be one of many women throwing my vagina at him?"

 

I would say survival not interest.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm 55 and I don't see myself getting too many knock-out 35 y/o here in the States. I'm aware that they may want to marry me so they can come to America. I've reading up on this over the past few weeks and I would never take one of these girls to America. I could see marrying though. I'm just young enough to make it work.

 

The girl from Shanghai that wants to meet me, we have been chatting about best places to retire in China. In her opinion, it's Xiamen but the point is, I'm careful to steer conversations away from America and it works. Also, many of these women are divorced with a kid. Maybe they want a husband to help out. The most hurtful thing I've dealt with in a marriage is infidelity. I would have no problem with a faithful wife who married me because I was a good provider.

 

You are overstating - many want to marry and go to USA but many want to marry and stay in China.

 

I'm sure your wife feels the same way about finding some "strange comfort" and finding new people.

 

Meanwhile. Who is comforting your kids?

 

I'm.shocked to see you are only a few years younger than my father and he was actually diagnosed as NPD. The irony is he wouldn't be so reckless.

 

Slow clap. You are actually making my actual NPD father look good. I'd call him and thank him, but he would get so nauseating about it I just can't

[dreamingoftigers]

I would say survival not interest.

 

I don't know the motivation so I won't say survival or interest.

 

But I would say over-interest, especially long before meeting in a foreign country would be a red flag to me and I think it should be a red flag to HtP too.

[Married1988]

I have read this entire thread.

 

I'm speechless, to say the least. At first, I felt bad for the original poster. No one is telling you; you need to stay in an unhealthy marriage. But what you are doing to your children is so incredibly selfish. If you are planning on using your kids as a weapon to get back to your wife, then you are going to backfire. The children may be upset with their mom for the affair breaking up their family, but they'll remember your actions of selfishness a lot more. Don't abandoned your kids in another country. They don't deserve that.

[Mz. Pixie]

I have read this entire thread.

 

I'm speechless, to say the least. At first, I felt bad for the original poster. No one is telling you; you need to stay in an unhealthy marriage. But what you are doing to your children is so incredibly selfish. If you are planning on using your kids as a weapon to get back to your wife, then you are going to backfire. The children may be upset with their mom for the affair breaking up their family, but they'll remember your actions of selfishness a lot more. Don't abandoned your kids in another country. They don't deserve that.

 

We have been trying to tell him this but he dismisses it as "Cheater logic". Thanks for weighing in

[Zenstudent]

I don't agree with the thought of leaving the kids with a toxic wife, but I don't agree with the "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

There must be some middle ground somewhere.

[howtoproceed]

I don't agree with the thought of leaving the kids with a toxic wife, but I don't agree with the "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

There must be some middle ground somewhere.

 

Walking away is the middle ground.

 

One extreme is "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

The other extreme is I kill her.

 

I bet Lt. Joe Kendra would support my decision to walk away.

[eye of the storm]

Years ago a good friend of my xH told me all of the things my X was saying about me. According to him I was a horrific wife and did all these terrible things to him and it was my fault he needed to find someone else who could love him. The guy felt bad for me cause he and his wife had seen how my X had treated me during the marriage and knew it was all a pack of imaginary lies. But he admitted, if he hadn't known me, it would have been easy to believe.

 

The reason I mentioned that...I'm starting to wonder how bad the W truly is and how much is his rage fueled fantasy.

 

I mean he can't even focus on his children with out calling her names.

 

For me, I'm taking his story with a pinch of salt. I believe she cheated, I believe there was a false R, but the over the top shenanigans.....

[eye of the storm]

The other extreme is I kill her.

 

HtP, if this is even a thought to you. You need professional help. And medication. She is the mother of your children. Please call someone and get help.

[Married1988]

I wasn't going to post again, but I do have something else I want to say.

 

I noticed you wrote about how you'll see them on Christmas Vacation and Summer Vacation while you are overseas. I didn't catch how old your children are but have you asked them how they feel about all this? Like are they okay and aware that you want to move halfway across the world to get away from their mother? You think you're doing this to hurt your wife, but have you considered. Maybe the kids will blame themselves for you leaving them. The blame isn't going to be on your wife.

 

Another thing. You're going to move to live in China, HongKong, Thailand. etc. You are underestimating what you expect to gain. There are no guarantees that you'll get all summer, Christmas Vacation. If you do manage, what are you going to do when they become teenagers and refuse to see you. Kid's don't want a Disney father, they want an involved father.

 

I have two adult children. My youngest I have to admit is a daddy's girl and my oldest isn't. When my oldest daughter was young, he wasn't really around much. He worked alot, gave her money for candy, toys to compensate. When our youngest daughter was born five years later, he spent more time at home. But by that time our oldest daughter already grew to expect her father wasn't around and became accustomed to that and it has never gotten better. They get along great but if you compare her relationship with her father to my youngest daughter's relationship with the father. It is a somber comparison.

 

I guess my point is. If you move far away from your children, they will suffer. The skyping, occasional visit, will not be enough. They won't confide in you. They'll not respect you, and will use your absences and throw it in your face.

 

Honestly, get yourself into some counselling because you are very messed up. And you don't see clearly.

[howtoproceed]

For me, I'm taking his story with a pinch of salt. I believe she cheated, I believe there was a false R, but the over the top shenanigans.....

 

Do you also believe that she did not invite me to her birthday party and got my daughters to lie about it? To me, that was on the same order of betrayal as having the affair to begin with.

 

The anecdote about your xH fits my wife not me. Other than on this site and with family, I don't talk about my wife but she trash talks me everywhere.

 

She was telling this story that was - and I quote - "unemployed for 6 months delivering pizzas." Now putting aside that I couldn't be unemployed and delivering pizzas, its trash talk. I lost my day job but got a new one in 2 mnths; I have the termination letter and new contract. When I showed her, she became angry and told me to "stop talking."

 

Do you believe that?

 

My wife is a cheater and a pathological liar with a strong support system from her "work-fam" and her Church and she intends me harm so I am fleeing. That's closer to what happening than whatever narrative you are trying to spin.

[Married1988]

Do you also believe that she did not invite me to her birthday party and got my daughters to lie about it? To me, that was on the same order of betrayal as having the affair to begin with.

 

The anecdote about your xH fits my wife not me. Other than on this site and with family, I don't talk about my wife but she trash talks me everywhere.

 

She was telling this story that was - and I quote - "unemployed for 6 months delivering pizzas." Now putting aside that I couldn't be unemployed and delivering pizzas, its trash talk. I lost my day job but got a new one in 2 mnths; I have the termination letter and new contract. When I showed her, she became angry and told me to "stop talking."

 

Do you believe that?

 

My wife is a cheater and a pathological liar with a strong support system from her "work-fam" and her Church and she intends me harm so I am fleeing. That's closer to what happening than whatever narrative you are trying to spin.

 

Then why are you running away from your children? According to you she is a good mother, but yet you claim your wife is a pathological liar, and has your daughter's lying for her. If you go through with this selfish plan of yours, kiss your relationship with your children goodbye. Good Grief!

[howtoproceed]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

If you go through with this selfish plan of yours, kiss your relationship with your children goodbye. Good Grief!

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

[Married1988]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

You are missing the point. I hope for your sake; I do that you don't live to regret this.

 

If she is ready telling your children to lie, to betray you. (them enjoying the party or not is irrelevant) Do you think she is going to sit back and not lie to them? If what you are saying about her is true. Do you think she is going to sit back and tell your kids? "Daddy had to move half way across the world because of me." Not she is not. She is going to tell them you abandoned them; she is going to blame you for breaking up the family. She is going to lie, and lie some more to make you look like the bad guy.

[Married1988]

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

This isn't about being right. This is about being realistic. Your wife is selfish and you are selfish. This is assuming everything you are saying is absolutely true. Then I really do feel bad for your children.

[Noirek]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

 

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

Well, first off, your sons have a different mother. Is their Mother a pathalogical liar who uses them betray you?

 

Second, Did you go to the other side of the world and leave your sons to hook up with younger women? Did you plan to stay on the otherside of the world and retire there a world away from your sons?

 

I have my doubts about all of this though. After all why are you still here when you have all those hot young things all over you?

[Married1988]

 

I have my doubts about all of this though. After all why are you still here when you have all those hot young things all over you?

 

I'm now having doubts if any of his story is even true. But if it is then I really do feel for his children.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Married1988

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't agree with the thought of leaving the kids with a toxic wife, but I don't agree with the "sign over all your assets to your ww while watching her date and walk all over you" either.

 

There must be some middle ground somewhere.

 

It is called litigation and being present for your children. Like 90+% of people that divorce with children do.

[Mz. Pixie]

She is a good mother. She had my daughters lie to betray me not betray them. They had a great time at the party.

 

 

 

When all is said and done, posters like you, Mz.Pixie, GrapesofWrath, whoever are like making this wager that my children will be crushed, damaged and my relationship with them destroyed.

 

Only time will tell but if my daughters turn out like my sons and I have the same kind of relationship with them as I have with my sons, I'll be satisfied.

 

You can't that because you are on moral high ground and have a sense of indignation and are feeling quite righteous because you are so sure you are right.

 

I still do not see the correlation between moral high ground and almost all of us telling you not to leave your children?

 

First of all, YOU came here seeking advice- we didn't seek you out to give it to you. You do not have to take any advice offered of course, yet when you ask for advice on a public forum you are bound to get advice that differs from your ideals.

 

I could see it if I were even fussing about you hooking up with Chinese women, but I am not.

 

Do you what to know why you keep saying we are giving you advice from moral high ground and the like?

 

The answer is simple. You know deep down inside that this is not the right thing to do- and it makes you angry that we disagree with what you are doing to your kids.

[jimmytwowheels]

I don't have kids. I'm happily married with an amazing wife. I've never cheated. But I have been cheated on before.

 

 

I don't think it's right to abandon your children. But I don't think you're going to abandon your children, I think you're going to go have some fun in Asia (it's a fun place) and when you've cooled off you'll return and reset your relationship with your children.

 

 

I don't understand what people are asking of you.

 

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

 

Their solution?

 

 

>leave the house you paid for

>pay her money to live in your 4 bedroom house while you rent a bachelor pad

>slowly crumble as a man and a person when she starts bringing her new man into your marital bedroom.

 

 

 

 

Nah man. You won't do any good hanging around. Go clear your head, but don't forget your daughters are stuck with a liar. Get back to them soonest.

[MadJackBird]

I don't have kids. I'm happily married with an amazing wife. I've never cheated. But I have been cheated on before.

 

 

I don't think it's right to abandon your children. But I don't think you're going to abandon your children, I think you're going to go have some fun in Asia (it's a fun place) and when you've cooled off you'll return and reset your relationship with your children.

 

 

I don't understand what people are asking of you.

 

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

 

Their solution?

 

 

>leave the house you paid for

>pay her money to live in your 4 bedroom house while you rent a bachelor pad

>slowly crumble as a man and a person when she starts bringing her new man into your marital bedroom.

 

 

 

 

Nah man. You won't do any good hanging around. Go clear your head, but don't forget your daughters are stuck with a liar. Get back to them soonest.

 

You are missing a lot of details.

 

He left the house and the kids. That's not going to look good for him with the divorce settlement. He is entitled to half the house assets so even if he gets an apartment he's going to get paid if he gives up the house... Or he didn't have to run out of the house and demand she leave if she didn't want to be married to him and wanted to cheat on him. Establishing primary care of the kids in the process.

 

Her cheating has nothing to do with his obligation to provide child and maybe spousal support, however he stated she makes more then him so if he tried for shared care or more parenting time she might pay him.

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

Wow you could have said this about my former wife, and probably numerous others. Big difference is I didn't throw a hissy fit about it and run off half way across the country. I got myself into some IC, support groups and did any and everything I could to maintain some amount of consistency and love to my kids.

 

He acts like his situation is so special and different and he has been sooooo soooooo wronged. Well it's not that different... Many many of us have been married to serial cheaters with major personality disorders and have had figure out how to make the best of it and move on with our lives, and many many people would do any and everything for their kids, a lot of people don't get that chance though even after being the victim of adultery because of the divorce laws. He need only read any number of the other threads in this very forum to see his story isn't that special or different.

[howtoproceed]

@Jimmytwowheels

 

Thanks for summing up where I'm coming from so precisely.

And I won't abandon my daughters. I'm going to see them for a few days next weeks and I'll be back over Chinese New Year and then again over the Summer. But you hit the nail on the head:

 

>you marry a woman and provide for her

>you have children with her

>you are faithful to her

>she betrays you in the deepest way

>she refuses to even be repentant

>she gaslights you

>she shows signs of cheating again

>she mocks you and belittles you in person and to others

 

This is exactly what happened. I'm not saying I was a saint or a perfect husband, but I made personal and professional sacrifices to provide and got zero appreciation from her. I mentioned this before because it just shows how she thinks and how she trashes me. I lost my day job and immediately got a job delivering pizzas - I mean like the next day I was delivering pizzas just to bring in some income. Two months later, I got a new day job. Its all documented and time stamped in the termination letter and the new contract start date. She was telling people I was "unemployed delivering pizzas" for 6 months. First of all, how could I be "unemployed delivering pizzas?" That shows just how unappreciative she is. When I showed her the documents proving I was old of work (a day job) for 2 months, she became agitated and told me to "stop talking." That shows her contempt for me.

 

Their solution?

 

 

>leave the house you paid for

>pay her money to live in your 4 bedroom house while you rent a bachelor pad

>slowly crumble as a man and a person when she starts bringing her new man into your marital bedroom.

 

 

"Crumble as man" is exactly what I'm talking about. Actually, that's what has been happening for the past 18 mnths. I have been crumbling as a man by Mateguarding this thing on the prowl for something better.

[howtoproceed]

@Madjackbird

 

He left the house and the kids. That's not going to look good for him with the divorce settlement.

 

Are you a lawyer or something because my lawyer did not say one word about me leaving the house. For example, he didn't suggest I move back in asap. What court would tell a man he has to live with his cheating wife? She was cheating, I have the texts to prove it and I wasn't about to put up with that so I left. That's my story for the courts.

[MadJackBird]

@Madjackbird

 

 

 

Are you a lawyer or something because my lawyer did not say one word about me leaving the house. For example, he didn't suggest I move back in asap. What court would tell a man he has to live with his cheating wife? She was cheating, I have the texts to prove it and I wasn't about to put up with that so I left. That's my story for the courts.

 

It's sort of common knowledge and common recommendation to people getting divorced to never leave the house.

 

Understanding Marital Property and Abandonment in Relation to Divorce

 

And edited to add. I discovered my wife was cheating on me and had to live with her for 6 freaking long months while she continued maintaining her relationship with the OM.

Edited November 29, 2016 by MadJackBird